THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

  • 28 Mar 2024, 19:15
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Author Topic: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence  (Read 14298 times)

Is it cold in here?

  • Administrator
  • Awakened
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25,163
  • He/him/his pronouns
Logged
Thank you, Dr. Karikó.

Oilman

  • Obscure cultural reference
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 126
Logged

ReindeerFlotilla

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,339
  • All Your Marriage Are Belong to Everyone
    • Singular Blues
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #52 on: 26 Jan 2015, 23:19 »

Character who always see the forest and the trees are generally dull.

Is it cold in here?

  • Administrator
  • Awakened
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25,163
  • He/him/his pronouns
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #53 on: 27 Jan 2015, 14:39 »

Pintsize tried to be helpful in the very first strip.
Logged
Thank you, Dr. Karikó.

Oilman

  • Obscure cultural reference
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 126
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #54 on: 27 Jan 2015, 22:23 »

Really?

Looks more like a gag punch-line to me, especially as Marten rejects it in disgust.

No, if that's the most helpful he has been in 2800-plus strips, he isn't contributing a whole lot. Idoru obviously didn't have a great opinion of his contributions, either.
Logged

A Duck

  • Curry sauce
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #55 on: 28 Jan 2015, 16:36 »

Pintsize is helpful, in his own ridiculous way.
He was Marten's only companion for Jeph knows how long and has repeatedly been shown to really care about Marten and Faye, again is his weird 4chan-like way.
I'm sure he volunteered to drink with Faye as a way to make her drink less. Not necessarily smart, but it's something.
Logged

Oilman

  • Obscure cultural reference
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 126
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #56 on: 28 Jan 2015, 18:36 »

Pintsize is helpful, in his own ridiculous way.
He was Marten's only companion for Jeph knows how long and has repeatedly been shown to really care about Marten and Faye, again is his weird 4chan-like way.
I'm sure he volunteered to drink with Faye as a way to make her drink less. Not necessarily smart, but it's something.

I don't quite understand that. He may be well intentioned at times, but mostly he's about as much use as a spider in a bath-tub and the one occasion I can recall him being genuinely helpful - giving FAYE $400 for moving expenses - he was taking the p*ss
Logged

Thrudd

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,271
  • Sucess Redefined
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #57 on: 30 Jan 2015, 09:18 »

Way late into the conversation but my little bit OCD when it comes to "Must Read ALL the Posts" finally drowned in the latest deluge.

Anyhow, on to the topic at hand with respect to AI and system transfers, backups etc.
From what has been posted till now, pretty much everyone has been assuming a pure mechanical system that would be the basis for the AI. Why?
If you look at biological systems where there are exact copies of complex systems, as for example twins, the systems diverge.
The rate of divergence is dependent on a number of factors yet even having both systems in the same environment they still diverge.

What does this have to do with the AIs in our story? Well hear me out first. I have here something that may have been completely missed.
AI has been pointed out, human systems do not shut down 100% so maybe the nature of the AIs is that they are active dynamic systems.
What I mean is what makes them what they are is the fact that their core code is always active in some way or other and if you stop it you would loose those secondary states that make them what they are.
This premise goes quote well with the creche idea that was made mention on several occasions in the past.

So copies and backups may apply to things that are static, like memories and possibly skill sets applicable to the particular chassis, job, local environment.
So when Momo did her chassis transfer she didn't copy herself from one to the other but actually moved what was her from one to the other, sort of like moving from the shuttle to the station.
Easy enough to do but there is always the risk of something going wrong part way through and trying to breath vacuum afterwards.
When you think about it, the concept might be straight forward but the risks involved become non-trivial.
Logged
A good pun is it's own reword.
There is a difference between spare parts, extra parts and left over parts.

The Venn diagram  for Common Sense and Good Sense has very little, if any, overlap.

Oilman

  • Obscure cultural reference
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 126
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #58 on: 30 Jan 2015, 11:42 »

That was my point, more or less. Momo is a unique configuration and there is only one "Momo" at any given time. She doesn't copy and paste, she uses an uninstall/ reinstall wizard of some description. Then the new chassis IS "Momo" and the old one is whatever or whoever adopts it. It isn't "dead", just temporarily non-functional. If her software matrix were corrupted or destroyed so that no identifiable, functioning identity were evident, Momo might be regarded as "dead" even though the chassis were intact.

Logged

Aziraphale

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,529
  • Extra Medium
    • The First 10,000
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #59 on: 06 Feb 2015, 14:13 »

This seemed like as good a place as any for this article...

Evangelists plan to convert atheist computers to Christianity
Logged
May goldfish leave Lincoln Logs in your sock drawer.

Neko_Ali

  • Global Moderator
  • ASDFSFAALYG8A@*& ^$%O
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,510
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #60 on: 06 Feb 2015, 14:17 »

I really want to believe that's satire.
Logged

hedgie

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,382
  • No Pasarán!
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #61 on: 06 Feb 2015, 14:24 »

Not an unprecedented statement, though.  Although it is only tangentially connected to the idea of AIs, there was a Vatican scientist who mentioned that if ETs exist they may have never had original sin, and not "need" to be Christian, but would happily baptise them if they wanted to.
Logged
"The highest treason in the USA is to say Americans are not loved, no matter where they are, no matter what they are doing there." -- Vonnegut

Zebediah

  • Born in a Nalgene bottle
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,278
  • I'm a bandicoot!
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #62 on: 06 Feb 2015, 14:36 »

I actually talked to a Jesuit priest about the ET thing once, and he said that the "official" position of the Church is that they can't have an official position unless and until they meet some real-life ETs and see what they are like.  There had been some speculation on how to handle different scenarios, but absent some living, breathing aliens, they're fumbling around in the dark.

In other words, the Catholic Church is agnostic.  :evil: On the issue of extraterrestrial intelligence, anyway - they don't know if aliens exist or not, and don't want to go out on any unnecessary limbs, having been burned that way before.
Logged
"It CAN'T be a bad decision, it resulted in CARROT CAKE!"

Orkboy

  • Beyoncé
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 725
  • Yelling angrily at the universe.
    • Bloodgood's Bloody Good Beer Blog
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #63 on: 06 Feb 2015, 14:55 »

This seemed like as good a place as any for this article...

Evangelists plan to convert atheist computers to Christianity

Huh.

It'd be real easy to laugh and dismiss the article as kinda silly, but it actually does raise some interesting points.  It's almost preemptive inclusiveness, especially the bit saying that an AI would have a soul the same way a human does.  It's a fairly positive overall message, and the Ork approves.

explicit

  • GET ON THE NIGHT TRAIN
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,721
  • I'm unique, just like everybody else
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #64 on: 06 Feb 2015, 15:02 »

Fun fact, the Catholic Church's official position on the age of the earth is that it is not 6000 year old and that's just the thought behind the New Earth Movement, that, unfortunately, many evangelicals now believe.

I'm just pointing it out to show a lot of misconceptions people have about some religions and what they believe. Also, if AI's are sentient beings then there is no reason why they would all follow the same beliefs.
Logged
"There's a lesson in everything if you're dumb enough"

Aziraphale

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,529
  • Extra Medium
    • The First 10,000
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #65 on: 06 Feb 2015, 15:09 »

This seemed like as good a place as any for this article...

Evangelists plan to convert atheist computers to Christianity

Huh.

It'd be real easy to laugh and dismiss the article as kinda silly, but it actually does raise some interesting points.  It's almost preemptive inclusiveness, especially the bit saying that an AI would have a soul the same way a human does.  It's a fairly positive overall message, and the Ork approves.

I'd agree with you if inclusiveness were the point, but the point to most religious "belonging," at least in practice, has more to do with policing and exclusion -- how one sets one's self apart from sectarian out-groups and society as a whole -- than with inclusion. Saying that machines have souls sounds good 'til you stop to consider that that's just the first step to letting them know they're destined for eternal damnation for any breach of orthodoxy. Hell, your average evangelical doesn't even consider Catholicism to be Christianity (for example -- you could also substitute "Jehova's Witnesses," "Mormonism," or a host of other Christian offshots), to say nothing of their routine delegitimization of everything else that isn't explicitly Christian.
Logged
May goldfish leave Lincoln Logs in your sock drawer.

Is it cold in here?

  • Administrator
  • Awakened
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25,163
  • He/him/his pronouns
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #66 on: 06 Feb 2015, 15:48 »

If they're intelligent enough to qualify as human-equivalent, they will be curious enough to ask all the questions for which religions offer answers.
Logged
Thank you, Dr. Karikó.

Carl-E

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,346
  • The distilled essence of Mr. James Beam himself.
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #67 on: 06 Feb 2015, 20:41 »

They'll also have the processing power to effectively compare and contrast, and come to the conclusion that they don't really like any of 'em...

...and will promptly start their own exclusionary church. 



But will they still consider us their creators?  Will there be a St. Turing? 

"Hail Ada, mother of code, pray for us!"   :angel:
Logged
When people try to speak a gut reaction, they end up talking out their ass.

DSL

  • Older than Moses
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,097
    • Don Lee Cartoons
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #68 on: 06 Feb 2015, 20:54 »

"A Canticle for Pintsize."
Logged
"We are who we pretend to be. So we had better be careful who we pretend to be."  -- Kurt Vonnegut.

Is it cold in here?

  • Administrator
  • Awakened
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25,163
  • He/him/his pronouns
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #69 on: 06 Feb 2015, 21:30 »

Remember how awestruck May was to meet someone from the Ellicott-Chatham family?
Logged
Thank you, Dr. Karikó.

hedgie

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,382
  • No Pasarán!
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #70 on: 06 Feb 2015, 21:57 »

May might have been after a bit of Hanners' probable trust-fund in order to become a fighter jet in exchange for protecting her. 
Logged
"The highest treason in the USA is to say Americans are not loved, no matter where they are, no matter what they are doing there." -- Vonnegut

explicit

  • GET ON THE NIGHT TRAIN
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,721
  • I'm unique, just like everybody else
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #71 on: 06 Feb 2015, 23:54 »

May might have been after a bit of Hanners' probable trust-fund in order to become a fighter jet in exchange for protecting her.

It did seem more enamored at first. I do feel if anything would adhere to creationism it'd be robots/AI. Seeing as they were clearly created by someone.
Logged
"There's a lesson in everything if you're dumb enough"

Is it cold in here?

  • Administrator
  • Awakened
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25,163
  • He/him/his pronouns
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #72 on: 07 Feb 2015, 00:11 »

It would be just like the human practice of ancestor worship.
Logged
Thank you, Dr. Karikó.

ReindeerFlotilla

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,339
  • All Your Marriage Are Belong to Everyone
    • Singular Blues
Re: On the psychology of Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #73 on: 07 Feb 2015, 00:14 »

They probably believe whatever catches their fancy. Just like people.

Exhibit A: There's no logical reason for anything Pintsize does.

Exhibit B: When Momo got mad at Marigold, she left in a huff, went to Hanners's place and sought physical comfort. She's a robot. Logically none of that was necessary.

Exhibit C: Station's treatment of Lt. Potter and the need for him to receive two lessons on morality.

Conclusion: Marten is right to think of Pintsize as just a little guy. That's what he is. QC AI are capable of the full range of irrational human behavior. That's why Robot Jail exists. They do things because it feels right. They use reason the same way we do--as a supplement and enhancement to emotional decision making. It's unlikely that they approach religion any differently.

It seems likely that the differences between AI and human religion stem from other capabilities, like distributed devotion.

It's likely that some AI have gone their own way, religiously. But it's also likely that some have joined whatever churches came recruiting. That's what meat-people would do.
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up