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Poll

Fayepocalypse! What Next?

The hospital waiting room?
- 50 (33.3%)
Faye on a trip down Deriver Denial?
- 26 (17.3%)
Emergency Cast Meeting?
- 45 (30%)
The police station, charged with the assault (or even murder) of Pintsize?
- 9 (6%)
Weird archetype-filled dream sequence for Faye in which she sees her life as a strange Pyroland-like fantasy and is Elightened?
- 20 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 139


Pages: 1 ... 18 19 [20] 21   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)  (Read 136782 times)

Emperor Norton

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #950 on: 30 Jan 2015, 07:58 »

Librarians usually don't make tons of $$$. It's not poverty level, but it isn't a ton considering they have to be in school longer (you need a Masters of Library Science). It wouldn't be simple for two people to live on that kind of budget unless one of them was working part-time at home

Depends on how much debt she has from student loans. I'll just say that my wife and I, with two children, make a good deal less than the median 55k that Librarians make and we live in a pretty spacious three bedroom house and do fine. Even if she has 50k in student loans (which is about right for a masters degree), with the about 6k payments a year that that would be, she would STILL make more than my family does.

I think people who are comfortably middle class really overestimate how much money is required to live. When you've had to live on 10k a year before (which I have, though I do make significantly more than that now), you learn real fast that 49k a year can be really comfortable if you budget right.
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Neko_Ali

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #951 on: 30 Jan 2015, 07:59 »

One of the arguments that Faye and Angus were having later on were about how much she was drinking/how often she was drunk. We've seen her drinking a lot more since she found out about Angus' possible job in the city. She's always drunk a lot, but the idea that Angus might be leaving really got to her, starting a downward spiral. Once she actually broke up with him, it became a near vertical ice slope covered in grease right into getting fired and landing in the hospital.
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DSL

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #952 on: 30 Jan 2015, 08:01 »

Growing older is compulsory.
Growing up is optional.

I've been fortunate to have a couple people in my life who've somehow mastered growing up without growing old (except in body ...). I've had varying levels of success emulating them.
« Last Edit: 30 Jan 2015, 13:17 by DSL »
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cabbagehut

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #953 on: 30 Jan 2015, 08:02 »

I think this is a fairly decent way to handle it.  I mean, Dora isn't Faye's therapist, and she's sticking by a decision she made about a business relationship while trying to be considerate of her friend's circumstances.  Lots of people posted about the concerns of insurance, and Dora answered those questions here.  Faye will have insurance for the hospital visit, at minimum.

I think few of us would know how best to help our friends in situations like that.  No two people are exactly the same, and what might be correct and supportive for one person could be enabling in another.  Sometimes, the exact same reaction from one person would be totally inappropriate for another!  It's a really touchy and difficult subject.
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DillyDolly

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #954 on: 30 Jan 2015, 08:06 »

Librarians usually don't make tons of $$$. It's not poverty level, but it isn't a ton considering they have to be in school longer (you need a Masters of Library Science). It wouldn't be simple for two people to live on that kind of budget unless one of them was working part-time at home

Depends on how much debt she has from student loans. I'll just say that my wife and I, with two children, make a good deal less than the median 55k that Librarians make and we live in a pretty spacious three bedroom house and do fine. Even if she has 50k in student loans (which is about right for a masters degree), with the about 6k payments a year that that would be, she would STILL make more than my family does.

I think people who are comfortably middle class really overestimate how much money is required to live. When you've had to live on 10k a year before (which I have, though I do make significantly more than that now), you learn real fast that 49k a year can be really comfortable if you budget right.

It depends where you live and what your ratio of pay is to where you live. I live near D.C. Probably one of the most expensive places in the country to live. $55K is poverty level for a two or more person family here.
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St.Clair

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #955 on: 30 Jan 2015, 08:14 »

He does have the notable flaw that sometimes he finds it hard to assert his own desires. This is an independent issue to his desire to help and support others, but the two do intermix. It can be hard to see where one aspect begins and one ends, but the simplest way to put it is: It begins where it helps his friends and ends when it hurts Marten. He's still trying to find that balance, and at times he has shown noticeable improvement. His dates with Claire, and how he's handling his new relationship, is lightyears ahead of what strip 1 Professional Indie Ogler Marten would have been capable of. That's character development.

To the point that there have been several complaints that his latter behavior is extremely OOC.  :roll:

Everybody needs a bear.

That's what I said!
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Beroli

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #956 on: 30 Jan 2015, 08:18 »

What is with the constant "X is leaving the comic!" theme on the forum? Neither Marten nor Dora left the comic when they broke up (despite all the predictions to the contrary). The comic has no one "center": not Coffee of Doom, not the apartment where Momo et al. live, not Marten, not any other single character. It may (or may not--Dora and Marten got back to being friends really quickly in terms of number of comics post-breakup) be a while before Faye and Dora can be in the same room without it being awkward again but they're both still main characters.
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KOK

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #957 on: 30 Jan 2015, 08:26 »

Breaking up does not mean a character is leaving the comic. A steady relationship means that we see very little of the characters. Steve and Cosette are very rarely seen. So are Penelope and Wil. Even Marigold has all but disappeared (as has Dale, of course.) Marten alone is imune to this.
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HamboneHFY

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #958 on: 30 Jan 2015, 08:29 »

An alcoholic, to me, is somebody who drinks constantly, not somebody who drinks too much because of an immediate and current reason.

Yep, that's been pretty constant.

And then she wakes up drunk, reaches for the bottle in her bed, finds it empty, throws it aside in disgust, finds ANOTHER bottle in her bed, drinks some of that, smuggles that into work, tries to sneak a drink at work to stay drunk, gets fired, goes home, and drinks that bottle plus another.

Having a few drinks to help you through a rough spot is one thing. compulsively reaching for three bottles of bourbon in a 24-hour period goes a long way beyond being a healthy coping mechanism.

Warning - while you were typing a new explanation why Dora is a total hellbitch has been posted. You may wish to give it marks out of ten.
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eschaton

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #959 on: 30 Jan 2015, 08:38 »

Arguing about whether or not Faye is actually an alcoholic is silly, because alcoholism is a human-defined term with no intrinsic definition.

The bottom line is though she has a drinking problem, she (and everyone else) are aware of it, and she needs to stop - cold turkey preferably. 
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Isyrion

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #960 on: 30 Jan 2015, 08:51 »

Arguing about whether or not Faye is actually an alcoholic is silly, because alcoholism is a human-defined term with no intrinsic definition.

The bottom line is though she has a drinking problem, she (and everyone else) are aware of it, and she needs to stop - cold turkey preferably.

Cold turkey might be dangerous depending on how long she has been drinking.  Her body may not react to the withdrawal that well.  She may need professional help in regards to her problem in order to successfully and safely quit.  Each addiction is different (and I do think she is addicted to alcohol) and many require specialists to help guide a person through. 

Emperor Norton

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #961 on: 30 Jan 2015, 08:56 »

It depends where you live and what your ratio of pay is to where you live. I live near D.C. Probably one of the most expensive places in the country to live. $55K is poverty level for a two or more person family here.

Based on cost of living differences between Northampton and where I live (which of course, assumes they stay in Northampton, because comic, which is not that cheap but not the most expensive place in the Country) to live the same lifestyle I do right now would require ~52k.

Northampton, is of course, much much cheaper than living near DC, so that could color our perceptions a lot.
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Boomslang

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #962 on: 30 Jan 2015, 09:36 »

My 2 cents on the behavior of Dora:

Frankly, I don't expect any better of her at this point.

Really, I just don't. The brother who literally took her in when she had nowhere else to go? A toxic person, who she has to remove from her life. A boyfriend who was completely faithful to her? Obviously she needs to catch him doing something so she can justify a breakup. Her assistant manager, and one of her longest friends she's still in contact with, having trouble *again* with alcoholic tendencies? Fired on the spot for drinking on the job.

Dora has never given ANYONE the benefit of the doubt if they threaten her peace of mind. She comes to a conclusion, finds the justification, and sticks to her conviction. Any guilt she feels has no bearing on whether she'll later decide otherwise- no matter how bad she's felt about anything, it has never once caused her to change her mind. Maybe she isn't actually aware that's a thing she can do, maybe she's afraid of it, maybe she is, as many posters think, completely correct and knows it.

Dora has been characterized in such a way so far that doing literally anything other than what she just did would be completely bizarre. Faye is fired, there is no coming back, and if she even steps foot inside, guarantee Dora will berate her for what she did. Faye is probably not even considered in her circle of friends at this point.
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Mr. Skawronska

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #963 on: 30 Jan 2015, 09:38 »

This strip made so incredibly happy.

Yeah, me too.
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Beroli

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #964 on: 30 Jan 2015, 09:39 »

and if she even steps foot inside, guarantee Dora will berate her for what she did.
If, the next time Faye sets foot inside Coffee of Doom, Dora doesn't berate her, I hope you remember posting this.
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zioninavision

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #965 on: 30 Jan 2015, 10:31 »

my headcanon has a car passing playing an appropriate toto song at this point!
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kyraeus

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #966 on: 30 Jan 2015, 10:32 »

Hate to say it, but Faye pretty much brought all of it on herself.  If anything, she should be pretty much happy Dora cares enough to not screw her over for health care.  Most employers wouldn't give a damn.

I don't necessarily think Dora's the healthiest person mentally either, but this was about the best you could expect from someone put in this circumstance.  As a business owner, you CAN'T have someone drinking at work.  You just can't.  Not least of the numerous laws I'm sure it breaks, or the ridiculous amount of disrespect for the job that takes... it was a pretty solidly shitty thing for Faye to do to Dora as a friend.  You can't ignore that sort of thing, it doesn't go away, it just gets worse..  As shown by the fact that Dora's drinking over the course of the (week, I guess it is?)indeterminate time period has gotten rapidly and decidedly worse than usual.

Maybe it wasn't the best thing to do to Hannelore, either, dropping that kind of duty on someone who still, after all is said and done, has emotional/social issues of her own.

Either which way, Faye's pretty much been heading this way from day 1.  The scenes with her family seem to have been nothing but a short reprieve from more of the same old, and it really seems like she's lost any and all of the progress she'd seemed to make.  Add to that, given what she's just done, she really doesn't have much room to give Dora ANY crap over how she handles stuff.

All said and done, I've been in Marten's shoes on this one before, where my actions were the only thing between someone and a grave made by their own two hands.  It's not a happy place.  It's nice to know someone has a second chance because you did what was right, but the fact it was necessary is something that gnaws at me even today, ten plus years later.  You can't sit by and watch that kind of thing.  Maybe you can come back years later, as I did, and be happy for them if they've 'figured things out' for themselves, but sticking around all too often gets you looked at as the person who will save them from themselves.  Nobody wants that full time job.

I hope if she ever does go back, Dora gives her the full treatment for doing this to everyone that cares about her.
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osaka

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #967 on: 30 Jan 2015, 11:10 »

Really, I just don't. The brother who literally took her in when she had nowhere else to go? A toxic person, who she has to remove from her life. A boyfriend who was completely faithful to her? Obviously she needs to catch him doing something so she can justify a breakup. Her assistant manager, and one of her longest friends she's still in contact with, having trouble *again* with alcoholic tendencies? Fired on the spot for drinking on the job.

Thing is, while the first two cases are clear cases of "wtf are you doing Dora Bianchi", the Faye moment is something that anyone in the same situation would have done or should do. For starters, you don't drink on the job. Ever.

Unless your job involves negotiations and multi-million contracts, but that's a whole different story.

Then, even if you went past that idea, Dora summarized her operation pretty well when she said "Just don't show up drunk or high and we'll be fine". If your boss allows you to run a joust with the wheeled chairs while open, when she says that you shouldn't go to work drunk then maybe you shouldn't.

Do I think Dora overreacted on Sven? Of course, big time. Do I think Dora fucked up egregiously with Marten? Marten said it better than I could ever think of saying it. But this time, Dora did what she had to do. Not that it's any less shitty to her friend. But life isn't black or white. Even I know it and I play it on easy mode.
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Schmorgluck

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #968 on: 30 Jan 2015, 11:14 »

I'm amazed at the amount of ableist shit that has been spouted on this thread.
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TheEvilDog

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #969 on: 30 Jan 2015, 11:24 »

Making a motion to have the official motto of the forum changed to "Relax, it's only a webcomic."

Everyone is going to bring their own experiences to the thread, but at the end of the day we are talking about a piece of fiction with fictional characters, some of whom are more prone to wacky hijinks and some are more depressive. There is no need to start getting worked up because X said something about Y. It doesn't do anyone any good.

Now, this storyline was always going to bring out a lot of bad memories for people and it was going to draw out a lot of questions from others. So how about we all remember that we have completely different experiences, some of which have helped us how to cope with a given situations, some of us haven't. They will ask questions, they are going to put their foot on it on occasion. I doubt anyone here is actually going out of their way to offend anyone, but if they do accidentally offend, talk to them, explain to them why you felt that was so hurtful.

If they remain wilfully ignorant.....then you can whale on their ass.

Until then, relax, it's only a webcomic.
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tywren

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #970 on: 30 Jan 2015, 12:04 »

Really, I just don't. The brother who literally took her in when she had nowhere else to go? A toxic person, who she has to remove from her life. A boyfriend who was completely faithful to her? Obviously she needs to catch him doing something so she can justify a breakup. Her assistant manager, and one of her longest friends she's still in contact with, having trouble *again* with alcoholic tendencies? Fired on the spot for drinking on the job.

When she's allowed such behavior in the past no less.

Also don't forget that when both Marten, and Faye wanted to get together, but couldn't because of Faye's hangups; instead of being a friend to both of them, she invoked the Barny Stinson Bro Code, and immediately hopped on Marten's giggle stick.

Quote
Dora has never given ANYONE the benefit of the doubt if they threaten her peace of mind. She comes to a conclusion, finds the justification, and sticks to her conviction.

Never giving a thought to anything else, including hard proof that she's dead wrong. For all of her talk about cutting toxic people out of her life, the sad part is, the only truly toxic person in Dora's life is Dora. I'm honestly so sick of this character, that i'm hoping we're witnessing the beginning of her final curtain call here. After this, all i really want is for her and her little Gothbucks coffee bar, to join Raven, Jimbo, Pizza Girl, and nameless Linux anthroPC as just another QC memory.
« Last Edit: 30 Jan 2015, 12:50 by tywren »
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A Duck

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #971 on: 30 Jan 2015, 12:27 »

I, too, believe that Dora is correct in mantaining her decision to fire Faye.
Going back would only give Faye the impression, even if subconcious, that damaging herself fixed stuff. Faye does need help right now, but she did screw up.

The great irony in all this mess is that, by refusing to follow Angus due to her fear of change, Faye set in motion the events that completely demolished her safe zone and will definitely change her for the rest of the comic.
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Bologna

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #972 on: 30 Jan 2015, 13:18 »

Wow, some people really don't like Dora, huh.

I mean, she's not my favorite character (not that I have a favorite character), and I've disagreed with her actions before, but she's not some she-devil werebeast looking to feast on everyone's happiness. 

The crazy thing about these characters is that they're multi-faceted, and they all have their strong and weak suits.  It doesn't need to be so polarizing yall  :psyduck:
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plusorminus

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #973 on: 30 Jan 2015, 13:19 »


Also don't forget that when both Marten, and Faye wanted to get together, but couldn't because of Faye's hangups; instead of being a friend to both of them, she invoked the Barny Stinson Bro Code, and immediately hopped on Marten's giggle stick.


Oh, sorry, I must have missed the strip where Marten was dragged kicking and screaming into a relationship with Dora instead of acknowledging a mutual attraction and wanting to pursue things.

(removed by moderator)
« Last Edit: 30 Jan 2015, 13:31 by Is it cold in here? »
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SJCrew

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #974 on: 30 Jan 2015, 13:53 »

Quote
When she's allowed such behavior in the past no less.
This is a go-to trope for Dora haters, and it's wrong, every time. Coffee of Doom has always had its fair share of morbid laughs, but drinking on the job is a brand new chapter. No jokes made prior to this series of events can make drinking on the job any less a professional suicide.

In case anyone wants to talk about that 'Emergency Bourbon' gag from some time ago: I can tell the difference between a one-note joke in a slice-of-life comic and actual story canon. Dora being quick-tempered is canon, and so is Faye toeing the fine line. But as a business owner, Dora knows when it's time to reel it in. This is why Faye needed the wakeup call.
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bartman

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #975 on: 30 Jan 2015, 14:05 »

Also don't forget that when both Marten, and Faye wanted to get together, but couldn't because of Faye's hangups; instead of being a friend to both of them, she invoked the Barny Stinson Bro Code, and immediately hopped on Marten's giggle stick.

Oh yes, was this in a missing story arc where Marten and Dora were both walking around naked - innocently so in Marten's case but sneakily on Dora's part, then she sneakily tripped up Marten and positioned herself so he fell into her, then out of her, then back into her again, totally unable to stop himself. Poor Marten.

Never giving a thought to anything else, including hard proof that she's dead wrong. For all of her talk about cutting toxic people out of her life, the sad part is, the only truly toxic person in Dora's life is Dora. I'm honestly so sick of this character, that i'm hoping we're witnessing the beginning of her final curtain call here. After this, all i really want is for her and her little Gothbucks coffee bar, to join Raven, Jimbo, Pizza Girl, and nameless Linux anthroPC as just another QC memory.

Y'know, it may well be that Dora is at least a part of her own downfall but maybe this will represent a growth opportunity for her character. Isn't she due the same benefit of the doubt that other main characters get?
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Endellion

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #976 on: 30 Jan 2015, 14:15 »

Wow, some people really don't like Dora, huh.

I mean, she's not my favorite character (not that I have a favorite character), and I've disagreed with her actions before, but she's not some she-devil werebeast looking to feast on everyone's happiness. 

The crazy thing about these characters is that they're multi-faceted, and they all have their strong and weak suits.  It doesn't need to be so polarizing yall  :psyduck:

Dora has confessed to being a vampire and a harpy in the past, devil werebeast isn't that much of a stretch :p
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #977 on: 30 Jan 2015, 14:49 »

What is with the constant "X is leaving the comic!" theme on the forum?

Thank you! It's arguable whether any character (besides Sara or other throwaways) have actually left the comic. We've seen updates, however fleeting, on pretty much everyone in the last 6 weeks in-comic time, and noone's been "gone" for more than 6 months. For details please consult the excellent thread Passage of time in QC.

If it's difficult to internalize this concept, I recommend an archive crawl, even just a short one of 100 strips or so...I suspect you'lll see just how compressed a look we're getting at these people's lives.
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Knight of Cydonia

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #978 on: 30 Jan 2015, 14:50 »

Faye needed a good hard slap-dose of reality to make her realise that she has.... not necessarily fucked up? But has gone the wrong way and needs to work on getting herself back to being happy with herself. Dora going back on firing her after drinking on the job would, intentionally or not, be equivalent to saying "no matter how much you screw Dora over, you'll always have a job here" and that + Marten's willingness to stick with her through anything (which isn't a bad thing in and of itself) does not equal recovery. It equals enabling.

Is Dora being kinda an ass about it right now? Yes.
Is Dora always going to be an ass about it? Probably not.
Is it EXACTLY WHAT FAYE NEEDS RIGHT NOW? Depending on how Marten/Hannelore etc manage it and her, I think yes.
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MooskiNet

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #979 on: 30 Jan 2015, 14:57 »

What is with the constant "X is leaving the comic!" theme on the forum?

Thank you! It's arguable whether any character (besides Sara or other throwaways) have actually left the comic. We've seen updates, however fleeting, on pretty much everyone in the last 6 weeks in-comic time, and noone's been "gone" for more than 6 months. For details please consult the excellent thread Passage of time in QC.

If it's difficult to internalize this concept, I recommend an archive crawl, even just a short one of 100 strips or so...I suspect you'lll see just how compressed a look we're getting at these people's lives.

To that, I'd add there's been a roughly 1/5 ratio of actual comic drama to forum predicted drama - everything tends to go better than expected, at least if you're getting your expectations here.  :-D
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tywren

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #980 on: 30 Jan 2015, 16:01 »


Also don't forget that when both Marten, and Faye wanted to get together, but couldn't because of Faye's hangups; instead of being a friend to both of them, she invoked the Barny Stinson Bro Code, and immediately hopped on Marten's giggle stick.


Oh, sorry, I must have missed the strip where Marten was dragged kicking and screaming into a relationship with Dora instead of acknowledging a mutual attraction and wanting to pursue things.

(removed by moderator)

Oh yes, was this in a missing story arc where Marten and Dora were both walking around naked - innocently so in Marten's case but sneakily on Dora's part, then she sneakily tripped up Marten and positioned herself so he fell into her, then out of her, then back into her again, totally unable to stop himself. Poor Marten.

I have no issue with acknowledgement of their attraction; what i do have a problem with is that she displayed a complete lack of tact, and forethought in that instance. I mean come on, the guy had been told just that day that the woman he'd wanted to be with for months, can't be with him because she's a mental train wreck, and that very night, she's sleeping with him. No chance for him to process, and get his own head straight over the issue; and no though about how these two are both her friends, and how she'd be changing that dynamic. Hell, i honestly wonder if she'd waited a few weeks if her and marten would have had their breakup at all.


Never giving a thought to anything else, including hard proof that she's dead wrong. For all of her talk about cutting toxic people out of her life, the sad part is, the only truly toxic person in Dora's life is Dora. I'm honestly so sick of this character, that i'm hoping we're witnessing the beginning of her final curtain call here. After this, all i really want is for her and her little Gothbucks coffee bar, to join Raven, Jimbo, Pizza Girl, and nameless Linux anthroPC as just another QC memory.

Y'know, it may well be that Dora is at least a part of her own downfall but maybe this will represent a growth opportunity for her character. Isn't she due the same benefit of the doubt that other main characters get?

Yes she is, and she used it when she broke up with Martin, yet here she is, making new mistakes for the same tired reasons.

If she'd had any tact she'd have said "Get help, or i have no choice but to fire you", leaving the ball in Faye's court. If she had any tact, she'd have sucked it up, put her big girl pants on, and told Faye herself; instead of dumping the responsibility in the lap of a mutual friend. If she'd had any forethought she'd have realized that telling a drunk, especially a belligerent one like Faye "you're fired, get help" isn't going to cause them to get help; it's going to cause them to drink themselves into a coma; and that the better choice is to tell them to get in the car, don't tell them where you're going or why, and drive them to the nearest rehab clinic.

Like i said, lack of tact, and forethought.  It was her problem (well one of them anyway) then, and it's her problem now.
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #981 on: 30 Jan 2015, 16:46 »

If the characters conducted themselves with perfect foresight and free of hangups, it would be a much duller strip.
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #982 on: 30 Jan 2015, 16:49 »

... You know, I feel like I'm the only person who feels like she is actually giving GOOD news to Hanners to tell Faye.

The only way it would be bad news is if you felt entitled to get your job back. And I see no reason she should.

Dora has made crazy decisions in the past (I still think that declaring your brother, the person you just crashed with while you found your own place, who has done nothing directly or intentionally to you, is toxic and that you are cutting them from your life is a bit over the top), but this just isn't one of them. Faye got fired for a legit reason, and giving her her job back would put her in a position where both Faye and the other employees of CoD will feel like she can walk all over Dora.

Dora made a NICE decision, and decided that she, the person who fired Faye, should probably not be the person to give Faye the good news, because it would probably lead to drama.

She isn't telling Hanners to tell Faye "Hey, you are still fired" because well... there is no reason to say that. She is saying "Hey, tell Faye she will still have insurance to sort this out, I won't put in the paperwork until after then".
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #983 on: 30 Jan 2015, 17:03 »

I mean come on, the guy [Marten] had been told just that day that the woman he'd wanted to be with for months, can't be with him because she's a mental train wreck, and that very night, she's [Dora]sleeping with him. No chance for him to process, and get his own head straight over the issue; and no though about how these two are both her friends, and how she'd be changing that dynamic. Hell, i honestly wonder if she'd waited a few weeks if her and marten would have had their breakup at all.

Maybe you should reread that part of the comic. Dora does NOT approach Marten the day of "the talk", she does so the night of the day after. (560) She and Marten do NOT have sex the night she asks him out. They don't have sex until a while in to the relationship.(604) Dora expresses concern about how they should handle their relationship to make things best for Faye. (565)


Yes she is, and she used it when she broke up with Martin, yet here she is, making new mistakes for the same tired reasons.

How is Dora firing Faye for drinking on the job AT ALL similar to her breaking up with Marten over Dora's relationship insecurities?

If she'd had any tact she'd have said "Get help, or i have no choice but to fire you", leaving the ball in Faye's court. If she had any tact, she'd have sucked it up, put her big girl pants on, and told Faye herself; instead of dumping the responsibility in the lap of a mutual friend. If she'd had any forethought she'd have realized that telling a drunk, especially a belligerent one like Faye "you're fired, get help" isn't going to cause them to get help; it's going to cause them to drink themselves into a coma; and that the better choice is to tell them to get in the car, don't tell them where you're going or why, and drive them to the nearest rehab clinic.

Like i said, lack of tact, and forethought.  It was her problem (well one of them anyway) then, and it's her problem now.

Because it is clearly better to ignore your friends agency or ability to make their own medical decisions; just force them to go to rehab.

I bet if Dora had "forced Faye into the car, not told her where they were going, and driven her to rehab" all of the Dora haters would be going "Dora is such a control freak! How dare she exert that control outside of the employer/employee context! Blah blee bloo" NOTHING DORA DOES WILL EVER SATISFY YOU.

Also, where is it written that Dora knows ANYTHING about dealing with someone who is an alcoholic. Dora is doing what she thinks is right, and as far as i can tell she isn't doing terribly. You can't hold Dora responsible for Faye drinking herself into the hospital after being fired.
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #984 on: 30 Jan 2015, 17:18 »

Making a motion to have the official motto of the forum changed to "Relax, it's only a webcomic."

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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #985 on: 30 Jan 2015, 17:18 »

You can't hold Dora responsible for Faye drinking herself into the hospital after being fired.

Can and will, but only to the extent that Faye remains responsible for her own actions, and I only hold Dora responsible for hers.  Dora did the right thing at the time by firing Faye, her employee who she just caught drinking on the job.  The right thing to do later would have been to stop by and see Faye, her friend who's been having some tough shit happen to her exacerbating her drinking problem.  It was perfectly okay, necessary, and rational to fire Faye and tell her to get help.  My problem with Dora is that her friend told her she wanted to be drunk all the time, then she acted on that, and Dora just piled more shit on her (shit she had coming, don't get me wrong) without lending any emotional support.  What the hell did she think was going to happen?
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #986 on: 30 Jan 2015, 17:25 »

You can't hold Dora responsible for Faye drinking herself into the hospital after being fired.

Can and will, but only to the extent that Faye remains responsible for her own actions, and I only hold Dora responsible for hers.  Dora did the right thing at the time by firing Faye, her employee who she just caught drinking on the job.  The right thing to do later would have been to stop by and see Faye, her friend who's been having some tough shit happen to her exacerbating her drinking problem.  It was perfectly okay, necessary, and rational to fire Faye and tell her to get help.  My problem with Dora is that her friend told her she wanted to be drunk all the time, then she acted on that, and Dora just piled more shit on her (shit she had coming, don't get me wrong) without lending any emotional support.  What the hell did she think was going to happen?

I still disagree that Dora visiting Faye would be a good thing. If Dora's feeling terrible (which she quite obviously is), then I imagine it's about doubly so for Faye - she knows she dun fucked up, and seeing Dora will only serve to put just how much she has, front and center. The best course, therefore, is to give Faye some time and space for the situation to cool down a bit, rather than to slap her in the face with a reminder of just -how much- she's screwed things up.
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #987 on: 30 Jan 2015, 17:31 »

What the hell did Marten think was going to happen? what about Hanners (who probably heard that Faye was fired before Marten did)?

Pintsize WAS there, and Faye either broke him or shut him down. How do you think she would have reacted to a person walking in?

Dora is not fucking psychic. She didn't know what Faye would do after she left. She also probably had to stay at the shop and keep it open (since, you know, Faye wasn't able to work her shift.) Even if she did stop by there is no gaurantee that she would have gotten there before Marten did. We don't know what time Marten got off of work, it might have been the same time or before Dora's shift ended.

Dora also probably had the empathy to know that Faye probably didn't want to see Dora. Would you want to see the person who had JUST FIRED YOU drop by? Dora might also have taken some chill time of her own, to get her own head and emotions in order before she went to Fayes and... idk.. overreacted somehow?
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #988 on: 30 Jan 2015, 18:06 »

Faye needed a good hard slap-dose of reality to make her realise that she has.... not necessarily fucked up? But has gone the wrong way and needs to work on getting herself back to being happy with herself.
(emphasis mine)

Oh no no no, Faye dun fucked up, and fucked up badly. Showing up drunk to work, and then getting caught in the act of drinking even more? No, that is a job-ending fuck-up among many employers, especially after the warnings Faye has gotten (posters in this thread and the previous ones have posted links to comics where fair warning was given). Dora is lucky she caught Faye before she did something like blow up the espresso machine or spill hot coffee on a customer - or worse.

It sucks to be Faye right now, that's for sure. But then, it's sucked to be Faye for a awhile now, hasn't it? We will find out whether she thinks it sucks enough being her to motivate her to give up the bottle, or crawl back into one the instant she gets home from the hospital.
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #989 on: 30 Jan 2015, 18:19 »

Making a motion to have the official motto of the forum changed to "Relax, it's only a webcomic."


Thirded.

Read a couple pages of this thread and remembered why I stopped reading WCDT.
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #990 on: 30 Jan 2015, 19:10 »

Administrator Comment Thy wish is granted. I'll probably change it back in a few days.
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #991 on: 30 Jan 2015, 19:29 »

You can't hold Dora responsible for Faye drinking herself into the hospital after being fired.

Can and will, but only to the extent that Faye remains responsible for her own actions, and I only hold Dora responsible for hers.  Dora did the right thing at the time by firing Faye, her employee who she just caught drinking on the job.  The right thing to do later would have been to stop by and see Faye, her friend who's been having some tough shit happen to her exacerbating her drinking problem.  It was perfectly okay, necessary, and rational to fire Faye and tell her to get help.  My problem with Dora is that her friend told her she wanted to be drunk all the time, then she acted on that, and Dora just piled more shit on her (shit she had coming, don't get me wrong) without lending any emotional support.  What the hell did she think was going to happen?

I still disagree that Dora visiting Faye would be a good thing. If Dora's feeling terrible (which she quite obviously is), then I imagine it's about doubly so for Faye - she knows she dun fucked up, and seeing Dora will only serve to put just how much she has, front and center. The best course, therefore, is to give Faye some time and space for the situation to cool down a bit, rather than to slap her in the face with a reminder of just -how much- she's screwed things up.

Oh I 100% agree, Dora visiting Faye now would be a bad idea.  I meant sometime after firing her but before Faye drank herself into the hospital, or even the day before.  I've been bringing this up a lot lately it feels like, but Faye told Dora outright that she wanted to be drunk all the time.  She did it in the context of explaining why she wanted to drink at work.  Dora was then somehow surprised the next day to find her drinking at work.  At some point in between she really should have tried talking to her friend.
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #992 on: 30 Jan 2015, 19:34 »

To which my reply was that with Faye's general joking demeanor and her talent at concealing her true feelings behind a mask of bravado and sarcasm, it'd be hard for anyone to really take her seriously. People aren't mindreaders - if you give the illusion that something's not bothering you too much, people are going to think it's all part of the act, proverbially and literally, in this case.
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #993 on: 30 Jan 2015, 20:22 »

If the characters conducted themselves with perfect foresight and free of hangups, it would be a much duller strip.

Ok, good point. To build on it, the comic would also be far less realistic, as people in real life do screw up.

I'm just one of those people that when i see someone making the same mistakes over, and over, or making new mistakes for the same root reason; i want to slap them across the back of the head, and yell "The hell's wrong with you?!?". I want to do the exact same thing when i see Faye imploding yet another of her relationships; but sense i can't do that to a character form a webcomic, i've come to the forum to rant, and toss out my .02$ instead.

I mean come on, the guy [Marten] had been told just that day that the woman he'd wanted to be with for months, can't be with him because she's a mental train wreck, and that very night, she's [Dora]sleeping with him. No chance for him to process, and get his own head straight over the issue; and no though about how these two are both her friends, and how she'd be changing that dynamic. Hell, i honestly wonder if she'd waited a few weeks if her and marten would have had their breakup at all.

Maybe you should reread that part of the comic. Dora does NOT approach Marten the day of "the talk", she does so the night of the day after. (560) She and Marten do NOT have sex the night she asks him out. They don't have sex until a while in to the relationship.(604) Dora expresses concern about how they should handle their relationship to make things best for Faye. (565)

fair enough. I've never been much for going back and re-reading, but if i'm getting my facts wrong, then it's time for me to do that.


Yes she is, and she used it when she broke up with Martin, yet here she is, making new mistakes for the same tired reasons.

How is Dora firing Faye for drinking on the job AT ALL similar to her breaking up with Marten over Dora's relationship insecurities?

As you now have me questioning my memory, i'm going to hold off answering this one until i've done a reread. After that i'll either answer, or recant the statement.


If she'd had any tact she'd have said "Get help, or i have no choice but to fire you", leaving the ball in Faye's court. If she had any tact, she'd have sucked it up, put her big girl pants on, and told Faye herself; instead of dumping the responsibility in the lap of a mutual friend. If she'd had any forethought she'd have realized that telling a drunk, especially a belligerent one like Faye "you're fired, get help" isn't going to cause them to get help; it's going to cause them to drink themselves into a coma; and that the better choice is to tell them to get in the car, don't tell them where you're going or why, and drive them to the nearest rehab clinic.

Like i said, lack of tact, and forethought.  It was her problem (well one of them anyway) then, and it's her problem now.

Because it is clearly better to ignore your friends agency or ability to make their own medical decisions; just force them to go to rehab.

I have no problem at all of ignoring the agency, and free will of a drunk friend if i feel it's needed. If they're drunk, and say "i'm ok to drive.", it bothers me not at all to take their keys, and tell them to sleep on the couch, call a ride, or walk home; likewise if they've been getting tanked every day for a week, dropping them off at a clinic so they can dry out is something i'd do without batting an eye.


I bet if Dora had "forced Faye into the car, not told her where they were going, and driven her to rehab" all of the Dora haters would be going "Dora is such a control freak! How dare she exert that control outside of the employer/employee context! Blah blee bloo" NOTHING DORA DOES WILL EVER SATISFY YOU.

Actually, if she'd done that it would have gone a long way to changing my view of the character.


Also, where is it written that Dora knows ANYTHING about dealing with someone who is an alcoholic. Dora is doing what she thinks is right, and as far as i can tell she isn't doing terribly. You can't hold Dora responsible for Faye drinking herself into the hospital after being fired.

She knew Faye drank to drown her issues, she saw that Faye had been holding a bottle like an old friend. It shouldn't take a Ph. D in psychology to figure out that she was in trouble, and that telling her "you're fired, get help", and then just walking away would be about as effective as trying to put out a fire with a can of paint thinner.
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #994 on: 30 Jan 2015, 21:22 »

I'm certainly thinking of way way way in the future, but at some point Faye is going to have to start looking for a new job. Do you think she could get one at the Secret Bakery? It'd drag a few more characters we don't see much of back into the strip. I wouldn't mind seeing Elliot again.

But I don't think Faye is going to be in a position to go job hunting for a long time in real and comic.  We're probably going to get several months Faye doing some soul searching and the cast reacting to the firing and hospital incidents for ages. I'm betting that in real time we are due for several months of strips in which Faye is in hospital. 
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #995 on: 30 Jan 2015, 22:03 »

We could have sparks fly as Faye gets to know Renee, and we could watch them compare notes about Angus.

Quote from: Tywren
I'm just one of those people that when i see someone making the same mistakes over, and over, or making new mistakes for the same root reason; i want to slap them across the back of the head, and yell "The hell's wrong with you?!?"

I can relate to that.
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #996 on: 30 Jan 2015, 22:26 »

(IICIH here. my edit was to add a bracket)
I have no problem at all of ignoring the agency, and free will of a drunk friend if i feel it's needed. If they're drunk, and say "i'm ok to drive.", it bothers me not at all to take their keys, and tell them to sleep on the couch, call a ride, or walk home; likewise if they've been getting tanked every day for a week, dropping them off at a clinic so they can dry out is something i'd do without batting an eye.

There is a difference between saying "you're too drunk to drive, I'm taking your keys/driving you home" and "you're drunk. I'm taking you to a clinic."

A big point in Doras ongoing story has been her need to control every aspect of her life, including her friends. This is the root of why she and Marten imploded. In the last few weeks/months (not sure of the exact timeline) Dora has been trying to confine that behaviour to the appropriate parts of her life, i.e. at work. I think Dora has been taking a step back from her friends and determining when her behaviour is reasonable and when it crosses a line.

Actually, I think this might be why she is cutting Sven out of her life. She keeps trying to control his behaviour, the fact that he doesn't put up with that behaviour creates tension and stress between them. I don't really think that is the best response to the situation, but it is the only way I can wrap my head around Dora's decision making in this case.

Dora might have stepped back a bit too far from Faye, but I agree with Omega Entity. It is difficult to tell when Faye is serious because she hides so much of herself behind sarcasm. Sometimes it is hard to tell when a friend is in trouble until you find them in a puddle of vomit. Dora missed Fayes warning signs. So did Marten and Hanners. The only one who seemed to get it was Pintsize, and he also didn't address it very well. But people don't seem to care when Pintsize doesn't do exactly the right thing.

I'm certainly thinking of way way way in the future, but at some point Faye is going to have to start looking for a new job. Do you think she could get one at the Secret Bakery? It'd drag a few more characters we don't see much of back into the strip. I wouldn't mind seeing Elliot again.

I actually hope Faye gets a job doing something else. I mean, secret bakery would have a fun cast of characters, but meh? we are already connected to that bakery through Sam and whats his face.
« Last Edit: 31 Jan 2015, 13:14 by Is it cold in here? »
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #997 on: 30 Jan 2015, 23:18 »

I'm amazed at the amount of ableist shit that has been spouted on this thread.
I would enjoy an expansion on this statement. Learning may/would occur.
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #998 on: 30 Jan 2015, 23:46 »

Hell, i honestly wonder if she'd waited a few weeks if her and marten would have had their breakup at all.

Probably not, as Dora herself acknowledges.  She had planned to wait, but her plans and good intentions broke down in the face of a good opportunity, and because of that she couldn't shake her irrational fears.  It's sad, and it's utterly human, and I feel bad for her there.
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Re: WCDT: 2882-2886 (26-30 January 2015)
« Reply #999 on: 31 Jan 2015, 00:23 »

Indians and Pakistanis love it, it is THE sport there.

Reminded of an old BBC Airport episode where one of those teams lost and they got attacked by rioters when they came home.
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