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[bhtooefr]

It's over 2 hours to either of the nearest Amtrak depots in my case as well. To get to Amtrak without driving oneself, and without bumming a ride from a friend requires:

Vanshare to Columbus
Greyhound to either Cincinnati or Cleveland (depending on which route you want - Cleveland's route goes to Chicago to the west, or Pittsburgh, then DC to the east, Cincinnati's route goes to Indianapolis then Chicago to the west, or DC then NYC to the east)

And, the vanshare is of course set up around commuter schedules and not someone trying to travel somewhere as a one-off.

[pwhodges]

I renamed the thread to maintain a pretence that's it's still on track...   

[Boomslang]

I'm out in Oregon, so a lot of the east coast stuff seems weird. We do have a lot of Amtrak around here- every city of any size has one, but that is admittedly because they're so far apart. Rather than light rail, we've got bus systems, and while there's nothing stopping the occasional obvious schizophrenic from making it uncomfortable, almost everyone rides it occasionally if only to save on gas and parking.

And out west, the '100 miles is a short distance, 100 years is a long time' rings very true. We've only been a state for 154 years. And with regards to density, the best comparison I came up with when talking to folks from the UK is that Oregon is more than three times the size of Scotland (255,026 km2 compared to 78,387 km2) and with a lot fewer people (3,970,239 and 5,327,700). If someone from the UK thinks that Scotland is an empty, desolate bit of countryside (and several I've talked to described it roughly in those terms) imagine it with even more space between where people live.

[Oilman]

Ah, but Oregon isn't symbolised (in some people's minds, at least) by an Australian, pretending to be an American, depicting a wholly fictitious version of a Scot....

[Pilchard123]

Wut?

[Oilman]

...... Mel Gibson in Braveheart.

Actually, the sheer quantities of tartans unknown before the 1890s, sold to American tourists probably come under this heading.

The Gurkha Regiment (Nepalese mercenaries attached to the British Army) wear tartan and have a pipe band, under certain circumstances. Mind you, they have earnt the privilege of doing pretty much anything they please.

[Aziraphale]

Hey, I know the feeling - I grew up in Charlotte and have lived in Raleigh and Durham, three islands of sanity in the mess that is North Carolina.

To be fair, the Outer Banks isn't terrible either. That could be because they'd rather not scare off the tourists.

What, American trains don't have dining cars?

As has been pointed out, Amtrak does, but they're a national carrier operating at longer distances. You don't find dining/bar cars on the smaller regional carriers (like the LIRR, NJT, MTA, etc.), by and large.

[Oilman]

Most short-haul British and European trains have no catering facilities, either. Given that the longest unbroken train journey in UK is about 6 hours, few people eat on trains anyway other than snacks, sandwiches and hot drinks or cans of beer.

I was just puzzled by the reference to "restaurant stops"

[Is it cold in here?]

I'll try again.

Cross Montana by car, and you'll have to stop to eat.

Amtrak keeps going, as fast as I'd care to drive, while meals are served. In fact, no stops at all except to let freight trains past and to pick up/discharge passengers as fast as possible. It eliminates all the reasons you would drop to sublight speed if you were driving, like refilling the car or draining the driver.

The food quality, on the Empire Builder at least, is about that of a restaurant you'd go back to regularly if you lived close to it but not otherwise.

BTW, the Empire Builder route, start to finish, takes almost exactly 48 hours plus delays. Europe's shorter distances and faster trains probably make this sound bizarre to a European.

[Penquin47]

When driving, long driving times get somewhat inflated by the fact that you stop every few hours for a bathroom or meals.  I say it's a six hour drive from my parents' house in Amarillo to my aunt's house in Dallas, but probably somewhere between 30 minutes to an hour of that is spent at gas stations or a fast-food restaurant and not actually driving.  Trains don't make those stops.

I would think that passenger stops would be just as much dead time, though, but I've never made that trip by either car or train.

ETA: Google Maps says that from Beach, ND (just east of the Montana border) to Spokane, Washington (just west of the Montana border) along the Interstate is an 11.5 hour drive.

[Is it cold in here?]

Amtrak hustles those through at most stops and announces to the people on board that they do not have enough time at the stop to get out and smoke.

[Oilman]

Oh, ok. I usually stop every couple of hours when I'm driving, but a road journey more than three hours in UK is unusual, and to drive for three hours without encountering some busy sections is pretty much unknown

How does smoking on US trains work? I don't smoke so I don't care, but most (though not all) British trains have smoking areas.

Intermediate stops on trains here are typically three minutes or so

[Is it cold in here?]

There are no longer smoking cars, and smokers are warned that if they light up on board they will be left at the next stop.

[Oilman]

There are no longer smoking cars, and smokers are warned that if they light up on board they will be left at the next stop.

Sounds very American. I suppose the next thing is, you'll be telling me they don't have those platforms at the ends of carriages?

The last train I rode in the US was in Colorado, at Durango. There were various signs there about not smoking, which was a bit strange considering the engine's contribution.

[Is it cold in here?]

Nope, and at a guess it's a safety thing, because they're afraid of people falling out of a moving train.

[LTK]

How does smoking on US trains work? I don't smoke so I don't care, but most (though not all) British trains have smoking areas.

Wow, really? I would not have expected UK legislation to be so tolerant to smoking because I have not seen a smoking area on a train, ever. Not in the Netherlands, Germany, France, Denmark, or Sweden. The very notion seems absurd.

[Random832]

It's like another issue I saw somewhere recently, about a character visiting another in their apartment and having a conversation about "parking in the next street, so the Superintendent won't charge you for me". That is pretty much meaningless to a British or European reader, because the tenancy lease practices differ - you might need to notify your landlord for insurance reasons if someone moves in, but you can have all the house guests you like and it's no-one's business but yours

Is it possible they were talking about charging for the use of the parking space in particular?

[mountain_ash]

Smoking carriages used to be quite frequent on trains in the UK, but there haven't been any since the ban on smoking in workplaces which took effect in 2007, and according to my observations at least were becoming less common in the years leading up to that.

[questionablydiscontent]

I renamed the thread to maintain a pretence that's it's still on track...   

I'm taking that to be a pun regardless of whether that was the intent.

[Carl-E]

Oh no, that's standard terminology.  Threads get derailed all the time... :/

[Kugai]

And it fell to Paul to change tracks with the title.

[Is it cold in here?]

As long as nobody got distrackted.

[Neko_Ali]

If you keep this up, someone's going to get run out of town on a rail.

[hedgie]

Smoking carriages used to be quite frequent on trains in the UK, but there haven't been any since the ban on smoking in workplaces which took effect in 2007, and according to my observations at least were becoming less common in the years leading up to that.

Yeah, it was torture.  When I lived in Scotland, it was before that, but, essentially, smokers and people who wanted to talk on their mobile phones were confined together in certain carriages.  Us smokers had to suffer their noise pollution, they had to suffer our air pollution.  A fitting mix, actually.

[Oilman]

I can't believe anyone actually ANSWERED the question about the platforms on carriages.....

I looked up the smoking on trains thing, because of a couple of recent experiences. I find that Scottish law differs from English law, as it often does, and it is legal to smoke if the platform isn't an enclosed area and doesn't otherwise specifucally prohibit it.

The Dutch have a complex range of unenforceable laws which are widely disregarded and result in smoking being legal, or sort-of legal, or done anyway in various areas. FRANCE appears to be similar.

Does an American train conductor actually have the authority to put someone off the train? I've never known a British or European conductor even attempt it, although you might get away with it in Germany I suppose. Usually they call the police (civil or railway depending on the circumstances)

[Aziraphale]

They do, and they will exercise it, though they've been known to look the other way depending on the nature of the infraction. You're not technically supposed to drink on the train, for instance. Do it quietly and don't make an ass of yourself, however, and you can generally enjoy your beverage of choice in peace. Get loud, puke, or piss yourself, and you're off the train (hasn't happened to me, but I've seen it happen). I've also been on trains that were delayed because of technical issues, and a few of us discreetly snuck cigarettes at an open window at one of the conductor's operating stations between the cars. Given that we'd been sitting in the same spot for two hours at that point and were vaguely apologetic (well, that, and the fact that we weren't smoking in the car where the other passengers would be subjected to it), they let us slide. As for platforms, if it's open air and you're staying away/downwind from the nonsmokers, the station employees often leave you alone.

[hedgie]

Dude, on Amtrak they serve booze.  I typically have a drink or two whilst watching films on my laptop. 

[Oilman]

British trains don't generally have opening windows these days.

[jwhouk]

It has been like forever since I set foot on an Amtrak train, so I can't even begin to comment about how service is. The only train I ever took was the Hiawatha (Milwaukee-Chicago service), and that was before most of the posters in here were even born.

Wife and I, before I got transferred up here to the Great North Woods, contemplated doing a train trip to AZ. Only problem: Amtrak doesn't serve Phoenix proper; it stops at Maricopa - which is about 50 miles away from where my dad lives in the Valley.

Also, the train only runs three days a week.

[Aziraphale]

Dude, on Amtrak they serve booze.  I typically have a drink or two whilst watching films on my laptop.

Yeah, I know. I was referring to NJ Transit, MTA and LIRR... should probably have been more specific.

British trains don't generally have opening windows these days.

Ours don't either (just a zip strip that you take out if the window needs to be kicked out in an emergency). But some of the passenger cars have windows that open, where the train operator would sit if the train was going in the other direction. The train I was on that night had an extra, and that's where we were.

[Carl-E]

Does an American train conductor actually have the authority to put someone off the train? I've never known a British or European conductor even attempt it, although you might get away with it in Germany I suppose. Usually they call the police (civil or railway depending on the circumstances)

Yes, the conductors do have that authority.  In addition, the railways have their own police whose jurisdiction matches the railroad right-of-way, crossing state lines and trumping local authorities (who they usually work with anyway). 

Most of the cases they get called out for are suicides.  I used to play poker with a rail officer. 

[Oilman]

Does an American train conductor actually have the authority to put someone off the train? I've never known a British or European conductor even attempt it, although you might get away with it in Germany I suppose. Usually they call the police (civil or railway depending on the circumstances)

Yes, the conductors do have that authority.  In addition, the railways have their own police whose jurisdiction matches the railroad right-of-way, crossing state lines and trumping local authorities (who they usually work with anyway). 

Most of the cases they get called out for are suicides.  I used to play poker with a rail officer.

Railway police in UK have, essentially, the same authority as the civil police, but only within defined areas related to the railway. They usually deal with suicides and accidents involving third parties, although the civil police may do this depending on circumstances.

Civil police aren't usually involved in issues specifucally involving railway bye-laws, unless the situation becomes violent or abusive. However few, if any train conductors will put such matters to the test - why do that? Let the police deal with it.

[Kugai]

Railways here don't have their own Police, but the Conductors do have a certain level of authority, including the ability to put someone off the Train if needs be.  If the situation calls for it, they will call the Police.

[Thrillho]

How does smoking on US trains work? I don't smoke so I don't care, but most (though not all) British trains have smoking areas.

This isn't even slightly true. Smoking on trains, or in train stations, is completely banned as it has been in all public areas since 2007.

[pwhodges]

Does an American train conductor actually have the authority to put someone off the train? I've never known a British or European conductor even attempt it, although you might get away with it in Germany I suppose

I was once put off a train for putting my bicycle in the luggage compartment without a luggage label on it (I had the label in my hand and was writing it).  Well, I wasn't - but the guard threw (literally) the bike out onto the platform and rang the bell to let the driver start, so I had to get off quick!

[Pilchard123]

So you had him hauled up for being an arse?

[pwhodges]

What makes you think that could even be a starter?

[Pilchard123]

The guy threw your stuff off the train when it was clear that you were trying to comply with the requirements (what are you supposed to do with your bike? Leave it blocking the corridor while you write the label?), then didn't give you reasonable time to either recover it or leave the train so you could wait for the next one with it. I got the impression that he didn't even warn you about it (maybe that's just how I read it).

Surely that warrants at least a stern talking-to from someone higher up.

[pwhodges]

Probably.  But what would it actually have achieved?  He had the defence that the bike was literally in breach of the regulations, because it should already have had the label on; discussing it with me could have delayed the train slightly on one of the tightest scheduled pieces of railway track in the world; I was never going to meet him again, and he would have taken his bad temper at being reported out on half a dozen other passengers (of course, maybe that's what happened to me).

[hedgie]

True, but in many places they've learned to disguise the racism that causes opposition to mass transit. Sometimes the alternate excuses they come up with are hilarious. When I was a teenager in Charlotte NC, there was a guy running for city council who opposed public transit on the grounds that it was "unbiblical". Though he could never point out exactly which verse in Leviticus forbade it.

Unbiblical?  I wonder if the guy has ever worn mixed fibres.  According to Leviticus, that's a stoning offence.

[Oilman]

How does smoking on US trains work? I don't smoke so I don't care, but most (though not all) British trains have smoking areas.

This isn't even slightly true. Smoking on trains, or in train stations, is completely banned as it has been in all public areas since 2007.

Well, I don't smoke and rarely use trains these days - I don't even work in the UK most of the time - so I'll just plead  ignorance

[Thrillho]

Ah fair enough, you sounded quite authoritative about it so it seemed a bit odd. Worry not!

For what it's worth, as an ex-smoker, I'm still finding my vapouriser to be an amusing grey area. It's not officially banned in public places yet (although that will obviously be coming soon) but I'm finding that in some places I can use it indoors with no problem and others I can't.

As an example, I make a regular train journey at the weekends and have found that I can use my vape actually on the platform at my nearest station, but at Paddington I have to go stand outside with the smokers. Anyone who's been to that station will know it has a long sort of driveway as its main entrance, with the smoking area on one side of it and the other side being smoke free, and on more than one occasion, despite the fact that I wasn't smoking, I've been actually moved along into the smoking area for just using my vape there.

(I for one think this is stupid. Some people theorise that people using vapes in public will encourage more people to use them or that it will make them smoke - the NHS people I've spoken to have said there's no evidence of this. I would argue it's far stupider sending people with vaporisers to actual smoking areas. It's like saying a recovering alcoholic can only drink non-alcoholic beer in bars, and absolutely nowhere else, or sending a heroin addict to take their methadone in an opium den.)

Given the lack of legislation around vapes (and indeed, lack of signs) I've often taken it as read that I can just use it almost anywhere unless told otherwise so if it's a late night and no ticket inspectors are around I sometimes even use it actually on the trains.

[Oilman]

I don't know about vapes.

I did use trains regularly until about 2006 or 2007 but I pretty much sbandoned tbe effort to make a living in UK after that, so I'm a bit out of date on that it seems

[hedgie]

Gawds, I remember even when it was technically not kosher to smoke in tube stations that it was tolerated, if not normal. 

[Oilman]

Gawds, I remember even when it was technically not kosher to smoke in tube stations that it was tolerated, if not normal.

Kings Cross put a stop to that...

[pwhodges]

I was in the next station along the line when that happened.  One of those scary what-if moments.

[Oilman]

I was commuting to London through Kings X at the time. No, it wasn't a happy feeling for sure

[Emperor Norton]

The difference in both size of the US, and the suckiness of our train/bus system. If I decided to get on a train to go from Atlanta, GA to Seattle, WA, it would take me 84 hours to get there.

In comparison, you could do a train/bus route from Lisbon, Portugal to St. Petersburg, Russia in 67.

[Thrudd]

Late to the discussion and the topic seems to have switched tracks and sidings multiple times. Oh well.

(click to show/hide)

As a Canadian from just outside The Big Smoke [aka Toronto] I have lived most of my life in a suburban environment.
I have been to various parts of the USA and Canada, as well as GBR [ Sturminster Marshall has 3 streets now? ] Central and Eastern Europe thanks to both work and an extended family.
Of them all, to me the USA is just plain weird though GBR on a different axis of weird.
I think it is either the undercurrent of, or just in your face, scarey I come across all too often when I was in the states.
Then again 6 of the top 10 safety challenged towns/cities were on my travel list.

The one thing that most people who are not from the USA do not get about the country is its sheer size. I think our Aussie friends are about the only ones who can comprehend the size - though not necessarily the landscape.

Yet again Americans forget about that country that is North South East and West of them, is also bigger and nearly everyone [except the nutters] likes since we are mostly harmless.
They may call us their hat but we know they are our pants. 

As train systems go, having synchronzied clocks and having the trains travel on time [passenger and freight] makes a world of difference.
I was kind of dissapointed the last time I used British Rail, it is almost as if they were learning from Amtrak and doing their darnedest to ignore past history and how things just work in central Europe.
Trains in Eastern Europe in some locals make me feel like its 1902 all over again.

[explicit]

Really, our cities just aren't built for public trans or walking. The only city I can think of that's not built on a grid is Boston, but that's mostly just because it was built up with no plan 100's of years ago.