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The Domesticity of Marten, Faye, Claire and Pintsize

8 (9.6%)

The Talk, Phase 2

10 (12%)

Faye meets Keeper Hannelore

6 (7.2%)

Sam: "Come on! I need your help!"

1 (1.2%)

Dora Does Guilt-Trip

24 (28.9%)

Tai has no boudaries about employees' personal lives

13 (15.7%)

Clinton and Emily's "date" (because that's still happening, AFAIK)

21 (25.3%)

Total Members Voted: 76

Voting closed: 18 Feb 2015, 08:09

[Mr. Black Licorice]

yn dod i ben cefn

Arawyn's ass!

[CaptainFish]

Claire's half of the conversation was, predictably, way more interesting. The relationship is much more of a revelation for her than it is for Marten. Kinda feels like he should be the one taking the initiative to check in on her, not vice versa, but that's a nitpick since they're communicating well.

He couldn't take the initiative. Claire has a plus +6 Dex bonus, Improved Initiative, and she rolled a 20.

Dang, Marten got caught flat-footed then! Will this encounter be the end of our favourite Bard/Cleric?

[Mr. Black Licorice]

Claire's half of the conversation was, predictably, way more interesting. The relationship is much more of a revelation for her than it is for Marten. Kinda feels like he should be the one taking the initiative to check in on her, not vice versa, but that's a nitpick since they're communicating well.

He couldn't take the initiative. Claire has a plus +6 Dex bonus, Improved Initiative, and she rolled a 20.

Dang, Marten got caught flat-footed then! Will this encounter be the end of our favourite Bard/Cleric?

Don't worry... he's fighting a Chaotic Good Wood Nymph Enchantress... She's not going to hurt him. Much.

[valkygrrl]

Claire using the C-word doesn't jive with April's timeline. It has only really been pushed for a few years.

[Consilium]

Can we still make crude jokes at least? 

(If that was already asked, I apologize... haven't read through everyone's responses yet today.)

Fun fact: treating a trans* person better than you would anyone else is still sexist! Just like taking measures against 'sounding racist' would still be racist. I would say go for it, but I'm certain the admins would argue against me.

[mustang6172]

I hope Claire gets hit by a bus soon.  Then grieving Marten can find comfort in the arms of damaged Faye. 

[TRVA123]

Consilium: The forum is not treating Claire better than other people in the comic. The forum is holding people to treat Claire in the same way they would treat other characters in the comic.

Point of fact, far before Claire's character was introduced, there was (and still is) a rule against shipping in the forum. This was there because people were crude about Hanners in a variety of ways.

My point is that this isn't the first forum-wide rule restricting how people can speculate or post about characters. I would argue that it is the same rule, just a little more blunt for those who need it.

If you want to speculate about Claire (or treat her "just the same" as you treat other people) then why don't you go somewhere else to do it? Its a free internet. Have fun.

[explicit]

This just in: Within the next 10 comics everyone in QC dies. Pintsize watched "The Terminator".

[Mr. Black Licorice]

Can we still make crude jokes at least? 

(If that was already asked, I apologize... haven't read through everyone's responses yet today.)

Fun fact: treating a trans* person better than you would anyone else is still sexist! Just like taking measures against 'sounding racist' would still be racist. I would say go for it, but I'm certain the admins would argue against me.

... Me thinks you misunderstood. I was being facetious.

[Gladstone]

Claire using the C-word doesn't jive with April's timeline. It has only really been pushed for a few years.

No, it still works.  According to Jeph, QC is set in both 2006 and the present, whenever that happens to be, so all cultural references made in any particular comic are always up-to-date.  No matter when it was written, it's always Now.

[snarkyone]

Fun fact: treating a trans* person better than you would anyone else is still sexist! Just like taking measures against 'sounding racist' would still be racist. I would say go for it, but I'm certain the admins would argue against me.

How about he's treating her better because he likes her more?   And I think you might have meant to say, treating a trans person better because they are trans.   Yeah, it's sexist, but I also don't think that's the case.    Being understanding and flexible for her isn't sexist.  It's compassionate.   


That said...... 

[cesium133]

Claire using the C-word doesn't jive with April's timeline. It has only really been pushed for a few years.

No, it still works.  According to Jeph, QC is set in both 2006 and the present, whenever that happens to be, so all cultural references made in any particular are always up-to-date.  No matter when it was written, it's always Now.

QC's energy eigenvalue is very precisely known, and as a result of the Heisenberg uncertainty relation its uncertainty in time is very large.

[Mr. Black Licorice]

This just in: Within the next 10 comics everyone in QC dies. Pintsize watched "The Terminator".

Ooh! 'Bout time shit get real!

[Gladstone]

Maybe on Friday they'll walk into Coffee of Doom and have to help Dora through her own lingering doubts re: firing Faye.

...for, like, two days, and then we'll spend another week on how cute Marten & Claire are as a couple.

[hedgie]

May leaves the convenience store and gets a job at CoD (and secretly to protect Hanners).  At least Dora doesn't have to worry about a robot drinking on the job.

[mustang6172]

May leaves the convenience store and gets a job at CoD (and secretly to protect Hanners).  At least Dora doesn't have to worry about a robot drinking on the job.

[explicit]

May leaves the convenience store and gets a job at CoD (and secretly to protect Hanners).  At least Dora doesn't have to worry about a robot drinking on the job.

Plus, I like the really creative swearing.

[TRVA123]

May leaves the convenience store and gets a job at CoD (and secretly to protect Hanners).  At least Dora doesn't have to worry about a robot drinking on the job.

She will only have to worry about the robots drinking too much, or too little, I forget how it works with you. Anyway, you haven't drunk exactly the right amount.

[valkygrrl]

That said...... 

The truth is out there.

[AprilArcus]

Claire using the C-word doesn't jive with April's timeline. It has only really been pushed for a few years.

Meh.

The word "cisgender" has been around for a long time, and is an obvious coinage to anyone who knows a little bit of organic chemistry, molecular biology, or Roman history. Urban Dictionary has a definition from July 2004. Wikipedia's article dates to August 2002. Everything2's dates to October 2001. Andrea James's glossary on tsroadmap.org attested it as early as August 2001.

It's true that the term "cisgender" wasn't introduced to the wider feminist discourse until Julia Serano's 2007 book, wasn't a "meme" until Char's 2011 tattoo, and wasn't being used on TV until last year, but it's not very hard to imagine it being in a trans person's vocabulary in the mid-2000s.

[valkygrrl]

The Andrea James link called it rarely used.

There's an easy way to settle it though. Find some people who were members of that community back then and ask. Given the number of trans people on the forum there must be a few, non?

Zoe?

[snarkyone]

The Andrea James link called it rarely used.

There's an easy way to settle it though. Find some people who were members of that community back then and ask. Given the number of trans people on the forum there must be a few, non?

Zoe?

I remember hearing the word a few times, never really used it much cause I wasn't out at the time, and wasn't sure of a lot of things.   But it has become more commonplace so it's used more.   It's not like we use "dagnabbit" thought we know it's out there, and usually only reserved for irony.    Words have life, and it can die.   So don't get gorgonized by timelines.   

[MooskiNet]

Sweet or not, one of the things I like about this strip is how it places focus on what SHE is allowing to happen.  To this point, the narrative has felt very "Marten is dating Claire, a trans woman," whereas now it feels a little more "Claire, a trans woman, has decided to allow Marten into her world."

There's more a sense of reality to the second narrative, at least to me.

[Half Empty Coffee Cup]

Anyone know the LD₅₀ for cuteness? I think we're pushing it with the second and final panels here.

At any rate, this feels like a bookend for now for Marten and Claire happenings. Time for other plots!

[explicit]

"Faye realizes she's in love... with Pintsize"

[Stoon]

Jeph is being exceedingly hard on my diabetes this week. 

[Rghfrgl]

Don't worry... he's fighting a Chaotic Good Wood Nymph Enchantress... She's not going to hurt him. Much.

While I can see the argument for chaos(going against the grain to be herself), I'm going with Lawful Neutral Halfling.

She's not laid back enough to be a halfling and that's more suited for Marten, but I am making a short joke and gnomes are dumb.

ANYWAY, like the comic. Claire's coming off in character and real. So, substance with the sugar.

[HannahRose]

The Andrea James link called it rarely used.

There's an easy way to settle it though. Find some people who were members of that community back then and ask. Given the number of trans people on the forum there must be a few, non?

I wasn't really a part of the community yet, so to speak, but I was familiar with the term back then (around 2005ish to be more specific). Granted, that was also when I'd just gotten my own/first computer, and I was all but dissecting the internet trying to figure out who the heck I was/am. lol

[snarkyone]

and gnomes are dumb.

How mean....

THERE WILL BE GNOMERCY!!!!

[BenRG]

I think that this is one of the longest expositions that we've ever had from Claire. It also reminds us that she isn't perfect; Marten has just got her on a good day. We are also reminded that Claire also has a stake in the game as well as her own anxieties over her inexperience (raising the question of whether everything that we've seen from her so far is nothing but a 'best guess').

Y'know, when I see a text-heavy strip, the text tends to dominate my attention and I don't start seeing the details of the art until the third reading or later. Consequently, it took me a while to realise that Jeph was right. Panel 2 was one of the cutest Claires that he's ever drawn!

Now, is it me or has Jeph been playing lots of JRPGs on Game Boy? Panel 6 looks a lot like a level up/level end screen!

Claire using the C-word doesn't jive with April's timeline. It has only really been pushed for a few years.

Remember that this is an AU. Real-world history is a guide here but is not automatically canon.

[SubaruStephen]

THERE WILL BE GNOMERCY!!!!

[explicit]

I also just don't like using that word, but that's mostly because it sounds weird to me

It also reminds us that she isn't perfect

EDIT - Also, how dare you suggest such a thing!

[BrusselSprouts]

Do you think the Relationship Status thing will come back during or after the first Clairten fight? I would love for it to become A Thing

[DrClef]

... I'm gonna give an unpopular opinion.

I hate this comic.

I hate the way that Claire and Marten have turned out. And I ship the hell out of them.

I want to find out more than just how cute Claire and Marten are. I want to find out how Claire feels about the Faye Fiasco. I want to see Marten dealing with the little issues that come up when a cis male dates a trans woman: and there ARE issues. Even the nicest, sweetest, most understanding guy in the world WILL have issues because every real relationship has issues.

I wanted Claire and Marten to have a heart-to-heart about Marten having to cancel their date to take care of Faye. Maybe have a conversation about Faye's friendship with Marten. Maybe explore the fact that Claire is fine with this, which might be a bit weird to Marten because Claire HAS to be the most stable person he's ever dated, and as nice as that is, it has to feel a bit odd that Claire doesn't feel threatened or upset that Marten had to cancel their date at the last moment to deal with an emergency.

I wanted Claire and Marten laying in bed, joking and giggling about how awkward sex was, because the first time is always awkward, no matter how nice it is.

I wanted Marten admitting that it felt a little odd to be dating a transgender woman, after a lifetime of dating cisgendered women.

Because these are the sorts of things that people in a relationship need to talk about in order for the relationship to be open, truthful, and real. And none of these conversations have taken place.

All we've seen is the George Lucas version of the relationship: Marten and Claire swooning over each other and blandly monologuing about how their love for each other is a lovey river of lovey love and everything is absolutely fine!

This doesn't make me happy. This doesn't make me feel like this is the start of a new relationship. This feels like Marten and Claire found each other on the rebound after a single drunken night and are desperately trying to convince themselves and each other that they are happy with each other and belong with each other and everything is absolutely fine! THE RELATIONSHIP IS PERFECT! NO ONE SHALL EVER BE ALLOWED TO SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP EVER! THE FIRST TIME FOR CLAIRE WILL BE WONDERFUL! NO AWKWARDNESS! NO ONE SHALL EVER DO ANYTHING BUT SQUEE AND SHIP THE PAIRING! THERE WILL BE NOTHING OF INTEREST IN THIS RELATIONSHIP ASIDE FROM GLURGEY SACCHARINE CUTENESS! YOU WILL SQUEE AND YOU WILL ENJOY AND THAT WILL BE ALL!

I want the old Claire and Pintsize relationship back. The one where Pintsize holds the paddle, with big puppy eyes, wanting to spank Claire, and Claire indulges him because honestly, it's harmless fun, right? Not LOOOM YOU SHALL NOT SAY ANYTHING PERVERTED TO MY GIRLFRIEND EVER. Claire's a big girl. She can handle that little dweeb.

... There's been a lot of talk going around about how great it is that a major webcomic has a trans character loving a cis character and everything is fine and dandy. I have no problem with that. I just wish we got more CHARACTER, and less "TRANS and CIS."

edit: I elaborated a bit more on my frustration with the relationship.

[AprilArcus]

This doesn't make me happy. This doesn't make me feel like this is the start of a new relationship. This feels like Marten and Claire found each other on the rebound after a single drunken night and are desperately trying to convince themselves and each other that they are happy with each other and belong with each other and everything is absolutely fine! THE RELATIONSHIP IS PERFECT! NO ONE SHALL EVER BE ALLOWED TO SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP EVER! THE FIRST TIME FOR CLAIRE WILL BE WONDERFUL! NO AWKWARDNESS! NO ONE SHALL EVER DO ANYTHING BUT SQUEE AND SHIP THE PAIRING! THERE WILL BE NOTHING OF INTEREST IN THIS RELATIONSHIP ASIDE FROM GLURGEY SACCHARINE CUTENESS! YOU WILL SQUEE AND YOU WILL ENJOY AND THAT WILL BE ALL!

I want the old Claire and Pintsize relationship back. The one where Pintsize holds the paddle, with big puppy eyes, wanting to spank Claire, and Claire indulges him because honestly, it's harmless fun, right? Not LOOOM YOU SHALL NOT SAY ANYTHING PERVERTED TO MY GIRLFRIEND EVER. Claire's a big girl. She can handle that little dweeb.

this.

[BenRG]

Has it occurred to anyone that this is exactly what Jeph wants as an atmosphere in the comic right now? From his Tweets, I get the impression that he is in a particularly good place, relationship-wise right now. That happiness and optimism will inevitably be reflected in his work.

Be human, people. Let him enjoy it!

[Deadman]

I have never heard the word CIS used in a neutral or positive connotation I get the fact that Claire is not using it in a negative but the word itself is just.....
  

[DrClef]

Has it occurred to anyone that this is exactly what Jeph wants as an atmosphere in the comic right now? From his Tweets, I get the impression that he is in a particularly good place, relationship-wise right now. That happiness and optimism will inevitably be reflected in his work.

Be human, people. Let him enjoy it!

I'm sincerely happy for Jeph if that's the case.

These comics still suck.

[snarkyone]

DrClef, you make some very good points.   But I make one to challenge all of what you said.    Yet.    Everything you said is something I think we all expect, but it hasn't happened yet.    So in this regard, while many agree, patience is what is called for.    Especially if you binge read the comic and are still somewhat new.  You want more, we all do.    Many relationships start out in that haze of surrealism and blinders.    Why would this one would be any different?   Give it time.   I am sure there will be drama ahead.   If you've read since the beginning, no upside is without it's down.

[AprilArcus]

I have never heard the word CIS used in a neutral or positive connotation I get the fact that Claire is not using it in a negative but the word itself is just.....
 

Okay:

• it's "cis", lowercase, not the Commonwealth of Independent States
• You haven't heard it used neutrally because you don't hang out with trans people in neutral contexts. My partner will refer to herself as cis when it's necessary to be clear about her gender history without a trace of self loathing, with basically the same cavalierness with which I call myself "trans".
  (click to show/hide)

  "Tranny" and "trap" and "shemale" and "cis scum" and "cishet" and "cissie"
  have the connotation of slurs because they are used in an exclusively condescending tone. "Cis" and "trans" are just shorthand for how people relate to their bodies.

[snarkyone]

I have never heard the word CIS used in a neutral or positive connotation I get the fact that Claire is not using it in a negative but the word itself is just.....
 

....is just a word used in contrast to the word trans.   It's not used in any other context.   It isn't a negative to be cis.
If you're taking offense, I'd say you're likely reading it wrong.

[Half Empty Coffee Cup]

Gotta admit, I do want to see some of that other stuff Clef was talking about missing... but I think they'll eventually get here. Maybe they'll get here 'tomorrow' in-comic time. Maybe we'll timeskip. Maybe we'll have more of this style comic for a while, but the other stuff will, indeed, come.

Me, myself, I think that final panel in today's comic might just be the final note for this type of strip and it will either go unsaid from here on out, or we'll get all that other interesting stuff.

[Dark Matter]

Everything you said is something I think we all expect, but it hasn't happened yet.    So in this regard, while many agree, patience is what is called for.   

This. There will be plenty of time for Claire and Marten drama later, but right now I personally feel like the current pattern of Claire & Marten cuteness trading off with Faye drama is actually working quite well in ensuring that the comic is not dominated by one or the other.

[DrClef]

DrClef, you make some very good points.   But I make one to challenge all of what you said.    Yet.    Everything you said is something I think we all expect, but it hasn't happened yet.    So in this regard, while many agree, patience is what is called for.    Especially if you binge read the comic and are still somewhat new.  You want more, we all do.    Many relationships start out in that haze of surrealism and blinders.    Why would this one would be any different?   Give it time.   I am sure there will be drama ahead.   If you've read since the beginning, no upside is without it's down.

I don't want drama. I like Claire and Marten being a stable couple. I just want them to act like a pair of adults instead of a couple of starry eyed teenagers. Have some actual conversations instead of long-winded monologues about how perfect the relationship is and how Claire might be worried but they are sure there will be no problems whatsoever and everything is wonderful and hunky dory and bleh. Talk like human beings instead of bad fanfic writers deciding that the best way to show what a character is thinking is to have them explain, at length, exactly what their emotions are.

I mean, compare this to the other couple whose relationship quickly became sexual after the young woman walked out of her bedroom to find her love interest with a plate of pancakes in the kitchen. Dale and Marigold didn't go into long-winded rants about how they've put aside their differences and worked past their problems and were now friends and lovers. Dale just needed to cook some pancakes and get dragged off to bed by Marigold.

I guess that's the crux of my problem. Jeph has spent a lot of time TELLING us that Claire and Marten are a perfect couple, but they have DONE precious little to show that.

[Dark Matter]

Have some actual conversations instead of long-winded monologues about how perfect the relationship is and how Claire might be worried but they are sure there will be no problems whatsoever and everything is wonderful and hunky dory and bleh.

You and I must use different definitions of what a monologue is.

[AprilArcus]

To be fair I found Dale and Marigold's relationship to be equally insufferable when it was commanding panel time.

God forbid we ever see Sven or Angus again. That would require enduring some degree of discomfort, conflict and narrative momentum.

[DrClef]

Have some actual conversations instead of long-winded monologues about how perfect the relationship is and how Claire might be worried but they are sure there will be no problems whatsoever and everything is wonderful and hunky dory and bleh.

You and I must use different definitions of what a monologue is.

An entire comic consisting of a character talking at length in response to a short question? Yeah, I call that a monologue.

[snarkyone]

I don't want drama. I like Claire and Marten being a stable couple. I just want them to act like a pair of adults instead of a couple of starry eyed teenagers. Have some actual conversations instead of long-winded monologues about how perfect the relationship is and how Claire might be worried but they are sure there will be no problems whatsoever and everything is wonderful and hunky dory and bleh. Talk like human beings instead of bad fanfic writers deciding that the best way to show what a character is thinking is to have them explain, at length, exactly what their emotions are.

I mean, compare this to the other couple whose relationship quickly became sexual after the young woman walked out of her bedroom to find her love interest with a plate of pancakes in the kitchen. Dale and Marigold didn't go into long-winded rants about how they've put aside their differences and worked past their problems and were now friends and lovers. Dale just needed to cook some pancakes and get dragged off to bed by Marigold.

I guess that's the crux of my problem. Jeph has spent a lot of time TELLING us that Claire and Marten are a perfect couple, but they have DONE precious little to show that.

Bear in mind, we've had a lot more time to process their relationship and develop our own hopes for what it could be.  In their time it's been what?  Less than a week?   I think two people talking about their feelings and thoughts like this are why we have higher hopes for their relationship.   And likely a reason why they might have a healthy one.    Just because they aren't speaking in a manner that you'd expect or desire doesn't mean they aren't being adult about it.   Reflection is a sign of reason, and there is a lot of that, perhaps more than you like.  Which is fine of course, but also consider that they both have said they just want to see where things take them.   And expressing their nervousness through monologues while a little removed from what we might normally experience, seems to me an abrupt and poignant way to deliver the internal thought process each of them have, while also allowing that process to contribute to them being so open with each other.    I still urge patience.   Which doesn't always mean how long we wait, but what we do and how we handle the wait.     

[Half Empty Coffee Cup]

I still urge patience.   Which doesn't always mean how long we wait, but what we do and how we handle the wait.     

This line alone should be put somewhere where everyone could see it.

[pwhodges]

An entire comic consisting of a character talking at length in response to a short question? Yeah, I call that a monologue.

Two successive comics in which they each talk to the other - already a dialogue.  And bear in mind that each of those probably represents less than a minute of comic time.

The mistake is seeing each strip as a story in miniature - it isn't, it is one of a set that builds into a story.  That's the way this comic works.