Topic: Alice Grove MCDT March 2015 (Read 111812 times)

Schwungrad · « **Reply #250 on:** 26 Mar 2015, 21:08 »

Over time, Gavia's consciousness will meld with her nanotech, as the biological parts of her body decay, and she will become a nightwalker too, gazing at the moon every night, waiting for an answer from the praeses...

Alice's remark about nanotech "working differently" in earlier times might mean that AI were abolished, possibly after a failed robot rebellion or a Butlerian Jihad - or maybe the praesides are the last remaining AIs who keep their nature secret.

Half Empty Coffee Cup · « **Reply #251 on:** 26 Mar 2015, 23:10 »

Quote from: SomeCanadianWeirdo on 26 Mar 2015, 20:01

So, this seems like it is Earth. And an Earth where AI apparently didn't appear, or was suppressed at some point, given that Gavia thinks intelligent machine are impossible.

Of course it could be Earth's moon, but not Earth. And the Walker is waiting for a signal from Moonbase Alpha.

Let's unpack what Gavia really meant. She didn't say that AI was impossible, she said that the Walker being intelligent was impossible. It could be for other reasons: constraints on complexity imposed by limited space on the nanomachines, the rise of new machine intelligences may be suppressed by the Praeses (which our best guess seems to indicate are AIs themselves), or perhaps just an unwillingness to entertain the notion that an intelligent entity would do nothing other than come out at night to gawk at the Moon.

Kugai · « **Reply #252 on:** 27 Mar 2015, 00:00 »

"For the World is hollow and I have touched the sky!"

BenRG · « **Reply #253 on:** 27 Mar 2015, 00:24 »

Wow! Lots of world-building in this strip! I'll have to think about it later on!

There is a strong implication that this planet is abandoned and has secrets - technology that still functions but no longer has a purpose because humanity (or at least the part of it that went 'up') moved on and no longer needs it.

Is Alice talking about herself? It's the strongest indication yet that she's an android who survived the end of the civilisation that created her but is still trying to fulfill her purpose of 'serve and protect '. Perhaps, over the millennia, she has been able to outgrow her safeguards, hence her ability to try to kill Gavia. Or, maybe, her creators never included them, trusting in their intelligence that their creations were too perfect to rebel.

Quote from: SomeCanadianWeirdo on 26 Mar 2015, 20:01

So, this seems like it is Earth. And an Earth where AI apparently didn't appear, or was suppressed at some point, given that Gavia thinks intelligent machine are impossible.

I'm wondering if there was a 'grey goo plague' incident that has led to modern nanotech having very strict safeguards but older iterations, like the Walker's components, don't have them and can operate autonomously. As for AI in general, maybe they did happen but have hidden themselves in other guises. It's easy to hide your nature when you are the guide of the entire civilisation.

Now... Do Ardent and Gavia come from a settlement on the Moon?

Thrudd · « **Reply #254 on:** 27 Mar 2015, 07:55 »

Something about the last panel bugged me when I first saw it and still bugs me.

(click to show/hide)

cesium133 · « **Reply #255 on:** 27 Mar 2015, 07:58 »

Well, at least we know it's not the same universe as Yelling Bird's.

jheartney · « **Reply #256 on:** 27 Mar 2015, 19:47 »

My take-aways so far:

1. AG is set on a far future Earth, not some other planet. Earth has an unusually large moon for its mass, and we wouldn't expect another planet to have such a large satellite. Plus the moon as pictured looks very much like our own moon.

2. The AG Earth civilization has achieved sustainability, at the cost of becoming a rural backwater. It's not without technology (remember the giant windmill Alice was on at the beginning? That suggests electrification), but there's no large-scale industrialization. The windmill may be a leftover that the current Earth population would not be able to replicate. Earth has a "scarcity-based economy" that uses money, which is anachronistic in the larger context.

3. Earth's status is protected by the surrounding Praeses civilization, which is probably interstellar in scope. It has progressed beyond scarcity, and does not use money.

4. The Praeses are AI's, and the civilization they run is similar to the Culture, with humans no longer in charge of anything. Humans are the wards of the all-knowing AI's, the Praeses. Ardent and Gavia should not be seen as representative members of the society, however. They're just children.

5. Earth is run as a kind of nature preserve, in which humans live anachronistically. When AI's took over from humans, the AI's decided to keep the Earth as a kind of historical monument. Its biosphere and humans were kept in a semblance of its earlier natural state. The natural state isn't all that accurate a depiction of earlier times, just as the Yellowstone Park you see now is not the same as the natural wilderness from which it was made.

6. Alice is an agent of the Praeses civilization, and she is tasked with keeping the anachronistic Earth society running smoothly. Alice ultimately reports to the Praeses. I'm doubtful she's an android (though she might be); her function is like a park ranger.

7. Ardent and Gavia (beyond their narrative function as audience stand-ins) were allowed into the usually protected Earth nature preserve for some purpose. Alice knows this, but she does not know any more than we do what that purpose is. The purpose may be large (something to do with the Praeses civilization as a whole) or it may be about them personally (see Spirited Away for something similar).

Schwungrad · « **Reply #257 on:** 27 Mar 2015, 20:53 »

Quote from: jheartney on 27 Mar 2015, 19:47

1. AG is set on a far future Earth, not some other planet. Earth has an unusually large moon for its mass, and we wouldn't expect another planet to have such a large satellite. Plus the moon as pictured looks very much like our own moon.

Of course, it could be that such an unusual constellation is somehow a prerequisite for a planet being suitable for human habitation (something to do with stabilization of orbit or whatever), and therefore all inhabitated planets (which would have to be very sparse, but the universe is large) look like this.

Quote

6. Alice is an agent of the Praeses civilization, and she is tasked with keeping the anachronistic Earth society running smoothly. Alice ultimately reports to the Praeses. I'm doubtful she's an android (though she might be); her function is like a park ranger.

Somehow I can't see her reporting to the Praeses (Praesides?); I rather have the impression of a "you stick to your business, and I to mine" relationship. My theory is that Alice is not an android (i.e. a silicone-based AI embedded in a mechanical or biomechanical chassis made to resemble a human), but some kind of genetically or nanotechnically enhanced human (cyborg?), and that she (if these enhancements include immortality) or her ancestors were part of a conservative movement who decided to stay on earth and blend in with the "primitives" when the rest of their kind left for their AI-run space colonies.

explicit · « **Reply #258 on:** 27 Mar 2015, 22:41 »

Maybe they just made it to LOOK LIKE EARTH

I'm on a bit of gif binge...

jheartney · « **Reply #259 on:** 27 Mar 2015, 23:10 »

Quote from: Schwungrad on 27 Mar 2015, 20:53

Quote from: jheartney on 27 Mar 2015, 19:47
1. AG is set on a far future Earth, not some other planet. Earth has an unusually large moon for its mass, and we wouldn't expect another planet to have such a large satellite. Plus the moon as pictured looks very much like our own moon.
Of course, it could be that such an unusual constellation is somehow a prerequisite for a planet being suitable for human habitation (something to do with stabilization of orbit or whatever), and therefore all inhabitated planets (which would have to be very sparse, but the universe is large) look like this.

Quote
6. Alice is an agent of the Praeses civilization, and she is tasked with keeping the anachronistic Earth society running smoothly. Alice ultimately reports to the Praeses. I'm doubtful she's an android (though she might be); her function is like a park ranger.
Somehow I can't see her reporting to the Praeses (Praesides?); I rather have the impression of a "you stick to your business, and I to mine" relationship. My theory is that Alice is not an android (i.e. a silicone-based AI embedded in a mechanical or biomechanical chassis made to resemble a human), but some kind of genetically or nanotechnically enhanced human (cyborg?), and that she (if these enhancements include immortality) or her ancestors were part of a conservative movement who decided to stay on earth and blend in with the "primitives" when the rest of their kind left for their AI-run space colonies.

The main effect the Moon has on Earth is in producing tides. You could argue that from an evolutionary standpoint, you need tides to stir up the boundary between sea and land, and that this allows for dynamic development of life at the boundary layer. Even so, this wouldn't be a necessity for human habitation if you were talking about colonized/terraformed worlds (humans would have already evolved before arriving, and could bring with them appropriate flora and fauna for terraforming).

WRT the idea that Alice might be independent, my feeling is the Praeses are powerful enough that whatever goes on on Earth is under their supervision. Alice may be impressive enough to survive a fall, or to take on a child's nanotech, but I don't see her forcing an entire more advanced civilization away from Earth. If she's there, it's because they want her there. If she were actually independent, I don't think a much more advanced civilization would let her run amok for long. (Unless reining her in is the purpose of sending these two brats her way.)

Loki · « **Reply #260 on:** 28 Mar 2015, 00:44 »

I think she happens to have her own goals, whatever they may be, and they just so happen to align with the goals of the Praesides they leave her be. She may also be handling everyday minutiae the Praesides don't want to deal with. So she gets to live in an environment she enjoys, and the Praesides get a park ranger slash janitor slash sheriff slash caretaker for free. It's kind of a symbiosis, although I get the impression Alice doesn't particularly like the Praesides.

Schwungrad · « **Reply #261 on:** 28 Mar 2015, 01:28 »

Maybe Alice knows something about the nature or the origin of the Praeses they don't want to be publicly known, and can blackmail them into leaving her alone. Or they don't want to interfere with earthly matters for ideological reasons. Or they just don't care about what goes on among the primitives and don't even know she exists. I just can't imagine Alice reporting to any higher authority. Among other things, if she were a kind of park ranger, she would probably have called (or tried to) the Praeses herself, and asked what to do with these runaway kids. Of course the advanced civilisation would be able to stop her if she were to do anything that blatantly goes against their interests - but as long as she doesn't, they might well tolerate her existence and actions without considering her an agent of their rule (and much less her considering herself that).

grez · « **Reply #262 on:** 30 Mar 2015, 16:49 »

Gavia has to give up nanotech to escape for some reason, but because of a last minute glitch Ardent has to sacrifice his body/consciousness to remove the nanotech from her so she can get off this crazy rock. Ardent turns into the night walker, watches the sky mindlessly forever

tywren · « **Reply #263 on:** 30 Mar 2015, 20:28 »

Could the reason Gavia can't make contact have something to do with the Nightwalker swarm? Think about it, the thing is made up of countless nanites, with a program/AI that's most likely distributed throughout the swarm. That would mean that every unit would have to maintain contact with the swarm as a whole. Could it be that those trillions upon trillions of local com signals are simply flooding the spectrum, thus acting like a jamming field to Gavin's broadcast?

Wildroses · « **Reply #264 on:** 30 Mar 2015, 21:49 »

Plausible Tywren. If true, it buries my theory that the Praeses deliberately tricked the terrible twosome into going down there so they could maroon them permanently. I've always assumed the Praeses were getting Gavia's messages and ignoring them.