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Author Topic: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015  (Read 30690 times)

mikmaxs

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #150 on: 19 May 2015, 15:19 »

I don't think AG is that much more complex than QC, it just takes place in an unfamiliar setting so it seems so.
An unfamiliar, alien setting with at least a dozen unanswered questions I can think of off the top of my head. Maybe the plotline by itself isn't that complicated, but there are so many mysteries, secrets, and unexplained plot threads that mean it's a lot more complicated from setting alone. The setting is a huge part of the plot. You can't separate the two and still have a cohesive story. If the setting is confusing and complicated, then the story inherits all of the issues that come with that.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #151 on: 19 May 2015, 15:20 »

That's your interpretation, which is perfectly valid.
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mikmaxs

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #152 on: 19 May 2015, 15:28 »

That's your interpretation, which is perfectly valid.
That's your opinion about my interpretation, which is also valid.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #153 on: 19 May 2015, 15:47 »

Well of course you'd think the opinion that your interpretation is valid is valid! :parrot:
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #154 on: 19 May 2015, 15:49 »

But if you feel that you'd like Jeph to take your views into account, you'll have to send them to him; he doesn't often read these forums.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #155 on: 19 May 2015, 15:50 »

And either way, why would Jeph take any of our view into account?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #156 on: 19 May 2015, 16:14 »

awwwwwwwww shelley wilson is adorbs
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #157 on: 19 May 2015, 16:19 »

I like how Jeb is more Elliot than we thought.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #158 on: 19 May 2015, 16:59 »

But if you feel that you'd like Jeph to take your views into account, you'll have to send them to him; he doesn't often read these forums.
My criticisms aren't just for Jeph. I assume I'm not the only person on this forum who writes or does something similarly creative and story-driven. Besides, I like talking about stories and plots and stuff.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #159 on: 19 May 2015, 17:31 »

Popcorn anyone?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #160 on: 19 May 2015, 21:57 »

1, if Alice Grove isn't a comedy, then Jeph needs to STOP TELLING JOKES.

*whispers* I don't mean to cause trouble but have you ever read Shakespeare?  He was all about telling the jokes in his tragedies.  And his comedies.  And probably his historical plays too but I've not read any of those.  And people seem to like him all right.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #161 on: 19 May 2015, 22:39 »

Besides: It doesn't matter if she's certain that's the only way to get through to him either: Using vast intellect to manipulate and push around weaker and stupider people is not an admirable trait. It's something bad guys do.

It's also something good leaders do.

A depressing number of good leaders have been bad people.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #162 on: 19 May 2015, 23:29 »

I assume I'm not the only person on this forum who writes or does something similarly creative and story-driven. Besides, I like talking about stories and plots and stuff.

Sure!  That's why there's a whole subforum for stuff like that.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #163 on: 20 May 2015, 00:39 »

Sure!  That's why there's a whole subforum for stuff like that.
You mean like this one, dedicated to talking about the plot and stuff happening in Alice Grove? (That's what it's here for, right?) If I want to talk about other movies, books, or comics I can do that anywhere, but Alice Grove is a bit too niche to talk about elsewhere.

*whispers* I don't mean to cause trouble but have you ever read Shakespeare?  He was all about telling the jokes in his tragedies.  And his comedies.  And probably his historical plays too but I've not read any of those.  And people seem to like him all right.
You can have humor in serious and/or non comedy plots, sure. Iron Man is funny without being a comedy. Firefly. Skulduggery Pleasant. Lots of things. Fine.

The problem is, Alice Grove has a punchline in almost every comic. I actually went and counted: Only a around twenty five comics don't have a punchline, and 2/3rds of those are from the fight scene and the intro. Everywhere else, the strips are used soley to tell jokes. Many strips have practically no bearing on the plot except to tell jokes, and even plot heavy strips usually take a panel or two to tell a joke.

Jokes don't need to be cut out entirely, but right now they're taking up a huge amount of the focus. I wouldn't mind it being a comedy, except it's working against the plot. (Just off the top of my head, the two panels used for the 'Is that a farm implement' joke could have been used to better setup Jeb as being stubborn and bullheaded, rather than legitimately worried. This in turn would help Alice's character and make her future actions feel less like she's bullying him around.)

If a guy goes up on stage and plays rock music, but tells a joke between one or two of his songs, he's a musician with a sense of humor. If he plays one rock song and then tells jokes the rest of the time, he's a comedian with a weird and pointless rock song in the middle of his set. Shakespeare is the musician, Alice Grove is the comedian.

It's all about where you put your effort and time.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #164 on: 20 May 2015, 01:48 »

If I want to talk about other movies, books, or comics I can do that anywhere, but Alice Grove is a bit too niche to talk about elsewhere.

OK - I just thought you were expressing a wider interest in the process of story-telling itself, is all.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #165 on: 20 May 2015, 02:56 »

If a guy goes up on stage and plays rock music, but tells a joke between one or two of his songs, he's a musician with a sense of humor. If he plays one rock song and then tells jokes the rest of the time, he's a comedian with a weird and pointless rock song in the middle of his set. Shakespeare is the musician, Alice Grove is the comedian.
I think this comparison, though hyperbolic, illustrates your point quite well.

I don't agree with everything you've said, but I think this is valid criticism that is absolutely not out of place in this thread. Of course it's alright to like Alice Grove as a funny comic focused on slightly silly punchlines -- but it's also alright to point out that AG's more serious aspects are kind of covered up by the silliness and it stops the plot from advancing. Because it does. And I think that this amount of silly humour feels less natural in AG than in QC, because AG set out as a much more story-driven serious and dramatic comic than QC.

I can understand the impulse to defend a piece of art you like against any criticism, even if valid (I've done that multiple times), but this forum would be really boring if people couldn't also voice their opinion on aspects of the comic that they don't like as much.
Of course if someone complains incessantly and is only negative, one wonders why they still read the comic, but I think we would all do well to not dismiss valid criticism immediately even if we disagree.
(I mean look at this discussion: I bet Mikmaxs would have looked way less negative about AG if people hadn't shot down all of their criticism from the start, making it necessary for them to explain and reiterate their views so much. Of course it's ok to disagree -- I do on several points -- but then it might also be good to admit that a lot of the points are valid criticism, even if they don't bother you personally.)
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mikmaxs

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #166 on: 20 May 2015, 09:43 »

^What she said.

And, just so it's said, there are a lot of things I like about QC: The comedy really is pretty good, even if I wish it was further in the background. Obviously the art is nice. When we *do* get flashes of setting and background it seems pretty interesting. Ardent and Gavia have a nice back/forth dynamic and their characters contrast well.

I just feel like saying this isn't really particularly profound, 'cause it's kind of obvious. Unlike something like Catch 22, where it works for confusing or strange reasons that take a lot of thought and explaining to understand, all of the good stuff in AG is pretty straightforward, so I don't often see the point in bringing it up.
« Last Edit: 20 May 2015, 11:57 by mikmaxs »
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #167 on: 20 May 2015, 11:56 »

^What he said.
It's she, actually. :-)

(Even though a screen name of course doesn't have to be indicative of someone's gender or preferred pronouns in any way, in my case it is: Mlle is short for Mademoiselle, i.e. Miss in French. Sophie Germain was a French mathematician I admire.)
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #168 on: 20 May 2015, 11:58 »

This whole time I hadn't noticed that was a lowercase L, and thought your screen name was Mile Germain.  :psyduck:
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mikmaxs

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #169 on: 20 May 2015, 11:59 »

^What they said. I should look at usernames more carefully, I read it as 'Miles Germain'. My bad. Edited.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #170 on: 20 May 2015, 14:01 »

This whole time I hadn't noticed that was a lowercase L, and thought your screen name was Mile Germain.  :psyduck:
Holy shit, me too! I didn't even notice that it wasn't a lowercase i, I've been seeing "mile germain" for years. Then again, I still don't remember how to spell bain-in-the-dub's screen name.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #171 on: 21 May 2015, 19:42 »

Young Jimbo and Ardent seem to be hitting it off.

Alt-Marten and Gavia, not so much.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #172 on: 21 May 2015, 20:09 »

I don't know. They seem pretty awkward-cute to me. :)
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #173 on: 21 May 2015, 20:38 »

Ardent.  Don't touch the pitchfork.  Ardent, give the pitchfork back!  Ardent! NO!
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #174 on: 21 May 2015, 23:30 »

Yeah, I thought that the kids would be okay!

Ardent, I suspect is a nostalgic; into 'primitive' ways, at least as a hobby. I think that this is why he came down there: He really wants to know how low-tech people live. Any awkwardness that the locals feel will be likely swept away by how curious and friendly he is.

As for Gavia? She actually comes across as being like Hannelore: Highly intelligent but poorly socialised to the point where it verges on a handicap. I'm wondering how long it will be before the young ladies of the town take pity on the lost little girl and try to help her feel more at ease.

I don't know. They seem pretty awkward-cute to me. :)

Pretty much how the real Marten would react to a nervous girl - Try to make her feel more relaxed but have no real clue how to do so! :-D
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #175 on: 22 May 2015, 00:20 »

Sophie Germain was a French mathematician I admire.)
I was kinda hoping that was the origin of your username. Nice to get a confirmation :-)

Young Jimbo and Ardent seem to be hitting it off.

Alt-Marten and Gavia, not so much.

I am half expecting Gavia to show off and use her nano tech to help the townfolks/farmers do some boring job with it.

And Alice to disprove of that for spoiling her long term plan of introducing technology to the locals only very gradually.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #176 on: 22 May 2015, 00:34 »

This comic reminds me of okapis in space.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #177 on: 22 May 2015, 01:23 »

I am half expecting Gavia to show off and use her nano tech to help the townfolks/farmers do some boring job with it.

And Alice to disprove of that for spoiling her long term plan of introducing technology to the locals only very gradually.

Gavia is too nervous and 'fish out of water' right now to think of doing something like that. That said, if she creates connections with the townsfolk, I can see her start using her nanotech because it seems an obvious solution to certain problems to her. Alice will be sore annoyed when she finds out (remember the balance and harmony she was afraid Ardent would upset?). However, I think that the real reason she'd be upset would probably be because of townsfolk discussing 'the miracle girl'. ;)
« Last Edit: 22 May 2015, 04:02 by BenRG »
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #178 on: 22 May 2015, 05:15 »

And Alice to disprove of that for spoiling her long term plan of introducing technology to the locals only very gradually.
Which would make the town rightfully annoyed with Alice for holding them back.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #179 on: 22 May 2015, 05:41 »

Well, the townsfolk already know about Gavia's powers, first hand. And it's not like Alice told her to stop floating around town. So she doesn't seem that concerned about knowledge of high tech getting out. It's not like the locals can replicate what Gavia can do, most likely. I imagine Alice was more concerned about the social impact that an (or two!) aliens would have on her town. Another thing that's unavoidable now. Alice seems nothing if not practical. Well she also seems bossy, tyrannical, aggressive and a number of other things too, but you know...

I just hope she takes the opportunity in town to get the sibs some new clothes.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #180 on: 22 May 2015, 11:32 »

Quote from: Gavia
A skein of nanomachines generates a liftfield that negates the planet's gravitational pull on my body.

A skein is one of these:



What is a skein of nanomachines like? Is it a thread made of nanotech wrapped around her body?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #181 on: 22 May 2015, 12:20 »

That's a ball; a skein is "loosely wound, typically falling into a figure of eight" (OED), like this:

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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #182 on: 22 May 2015, 14:42 »

Either way, it'll be a pile if a cat is anywhere nearby.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #183 on: 22 May 2015, 15:30 »

Alt-Marten and Gavia are cute together.


Ardent will want to practice her 'Fork Tossing Technique'
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #184 on: 22 May 2015, 22:12 »

Wait, if the nanobots just negate the planets gravity, why do they have such a crappy maximum speed? Without gravity, all you'd have to worry about is wind resistance, right? Shouldn't she theoretically be able to move incredibly quickly since there's no weight slowing her down?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #185 on: 22 May 2015, 22:45 »

Yeah...if she wants to. But she doesn't seem to be in a rush.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #186 on: 22 May 2015, 23:29 »

Wait, if the nanobots just negate the planets gravity, why do they have such a crappy maximum speed? Without gravity, all you'd have to worry about is wind resistance, right? Shouldn't she theoretically be able to move incredibly quickly since there's no weight slowing her down?

I read it as meaning that they are generating an upwards thrust equal and opposite to the planet's gravitational force, thus negating gravity (net force = 0). There is probably not much extra power in reserve for lateral motion.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #187 on: 23 May 2015, 00:08 »

IRL, in zero gravity you can't move at all (unless you can push off against something or fart really hard).
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #188 on: 23 May 2015, 02:21 »

What is a skein of nanomachines like? Is it a thread made of nanotech wrapped around her body?

She is actually held up in the air by a flock of tiny, tiny geese.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #189 on: 23 May 2015, 08:49 »

Honestly, someone at some stage is going to HAVE to address Gavias constant use of her 'Hover Mode' and excessive use of her Nanotech.  She's going to have to fit into this society she's going to have to learn to fit in to their way of life.

Besides the way of life, she's going to have entirely atrophied and useless legs and feet in a month. Unless her nanotech exercises her muscles too.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #190 on: 23 May 2015, 12:59 »

Yeah...if she wants to. But she doesn't seem to be in a rush.
Remember when she was running from the Nightwalker, and she couldn't keep up with Ardent?

IRL, in zero gravity you can't move at all (unless you can push off against something or fart really hard).
IRL, you can't move in normal gravity unless you have something to push off against either.

My point was that there shouldn't be a speed limit. Even if the nanomachines can only give a tiny amount of forward thrust, the only thing that should slow Gavia down is air resistance, which wouldn't be much of an issue until you start pushing highway speeds.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #191 on: 23 May 2015, 16:06 »

My point was that there shouldn't be a speed limit. Even if the nanomachines can only give a tiny amount of forward thrust, the only thing that should slow Gavia down is air resistance, which wouldn't be much of an issue until you start pushing highway speeds.

Think of it as a VTOL aircraft moving at slow speed. Gavia's nanomachines can generate, for the sake of arguments 20 units of thrust in any direction. However, to resist the planet's gravitational force requires that 15 units of thrust always be directed downwards to keep her up in the air. That leaves only five units of thrust for translation in any direction.

VTOL aircraft get around this by having lift-generating aerofoils so, at a certain speed, aerodynamic forces generate lift and reduce the amount of vertical thrust needed to keep the aircraft in the air and allowing more thrust to be used for horizontal flight speed. However, Gavia doesn't have that option. So, she's limited to the amount of force against air resistance that her nanomachines can generate without compromising her levitation.

Remember that air resistance increases in strength right up until you reach the speed of sound. At a certain point, unless you have particularly high-thrust propulsion, the total air resistance equals your thrust and you cannot accelerate any further. So, Gavia has an equivalent of 'terminal velocity', where the aerodynamic forces acting against her body equal the lateral thrust generated by her nanomachines. As we have seen, that is slower than human running velocity. Once again, there are work-arounds, such as altering her body posture to reduce her frontal area against air resistance. However, from what we've seen so far in the strip, it is unlikely that Gavia has either the knowledge or practical experience to do this.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #192 on: 24 May 2015, 01:17 »

If it was VTOL-like, then we'd see a cloud of Pig-pen like dust every time Gavia started moving in a particular direction.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #193 on: 24 May 2015, 02:31 »

Magnets.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #194 on: 24 May 2015, 06:55 »

Magnets.

Exactly; don't take the VTOL comparison too literally. The point is that Gavia's nanomachines can generate a limited amount of force and most of it is used up just keeping her off the ground. Thus, there isn't much reserve left to get her moving in any lateral direction.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #195 on: 24 May 2015, 08:09 »

IRL, in zero gravity you can't move at all (unless you can push off against something or fart really hard).

Which is why Gavia can not go very fast. Even augmented by nanotechnology, there is a limit to the exhaust speed of your farts.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #196 on: 24 May 2015, 12:11 »

Are you telling me she has enough power in the nanomachines to do this:
http://www.alicegrove.com/post/104120259904/uh-oh

But not to overcome the wind resistance faced at a light run?

Besides, if that were the case, decent weather or a gust of wind would send her tumbling like a tumbling tumbleweed.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #197 on: 24 May 2015, 13:18 »

Are you telling me she has enough power in the nanomachines to do this:
http://www.alicegrove.com/post/104120259904/uh-oh

But not to overcome the wind resistance faced at a light run?

There's no automatic connection between the different effects. Just because the nanomachines can generate huge heat pulses or illusions of the same doesn't mean that they have the physical capability to generate more than enough repulsive force to float and generate enough lateral force at the same time to move faster than a light jog.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDT - May 2015
« Reply #199 on: 24 May 2015, 17:52 »

That only applies if the medium makes no attempt to explain how something works.
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