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Follow-up to Sven's Thank-You Note to Hannelore

Sven trying to think of some way to say thank you to Tai

Faye and Bubbles addressing the differences in perception that they have about the robot fighting

Hannelore decides that she has a talent for solving her friends' personal problems... unfortunately!

Marten and Claire are moving to Canada?!? (because Marten is Jeph's occasoinal SI)

The Day Veronica Gave Sam a Bath!

Another evening at the Support Group: Arthur misses 'Abyssinia'

Pintsize and Corpse Witch, a partnership made in Robot Hell!

Seriously though, what about Penelope and Raven? Or Steve and his cereal?

[BenRG]

I took it at face value, as the suggestion that the armor isn't useful because anyone who wants to kill her would just use an, apparently legal,anti-tank rifle.

My understanding is that Faye was asking Bubbles why she would wear armour when her chassis' basic structure was already tough enough to need an illegal weapon to damage it. Faye was pointing out that the armour had no practical utility for Bubbles as she wasn't fighting.

[Akima]

I too read Faye's remark as meaning that Bubbles' external armour was only necessary to protect her from anti-tank rifle rounds, a threat she would not face in Massachusetts . According to her spec. sheet, it can resist up to 30mm APFSDS rounds so anti-tank rifle bullets would just bounce off. I imagine she must have a helmet tucked away in a cupboard somewhere.

[TinPenguin]

Or an alternate head she can screw on.

[katsmeat]

I find it a bit odd that Bubbles has a military chassis at all. I mean we know AIs can change chassis reasonably easily.  We've met one who has done so - the shop assistant who is an ex-submarine,

A chassis is expensive, a military one  octuply so.  I can imagine the army offering a standard civilian model as part of a demobilization benefit package. But this is a bit like a retiring real-world soldier being allowed to keep their rifle and their Humvee. 

The only explanation I can think of is that her chassis is an obsolete model that was being retired when she mustered out. She decided she wanted to keep it for her own reasons and whoever was in charge thought "Whatever... why not?" In fairness, this  does seem to accord with what we know about her character.

[osaka]

It seems as if Bubbles is missing the point I made on a QC Captions panel and on earlier threads. Anti-tank armor might not protect you from The Rage of the Pugnacious Peach (tm) (R) (C)

[ReindeerFlotilla]

Given Bubbles's specifications, She's certainly Anti-tank rifle proof.

On the other hand, Hannelore is equipped to take her out.

[osaka]

And if she appeared to Hanners as she was today, the orbital bombardment app would surely come into play indeed.

[Schwungrad]

According to her spec. sheet, it can resist up to 30mm APFSDS rounds

Fun fact: The penetrator of the M829 APFSDS has a caliber of only 27mm. It pierces half a meter (20in) of steel plating with ease. That metallo-ceramic armor of hers must be some seriously advanced stuff.

[BenRG]

According to her spec. sheet, it can resist up to 30mm APFSDS rounds

Fun fact: The penetrator of the M829 APFSDS has a caliber of only 27mm. It pierces half a meter (20in) of steel plating with ease. That metallo-ceramic armor of hers must be some seriously advanced stuff.

I'm pretty sure that QC-verse technology is a good couple of decades in advance of real world stuff. Didn't the Vespavenger's warbot have lasers as a standard weapon? We've only just started getting them right for weapons applications in the last five years in the real world and they're still the size of sub-compact cars. Pintsize's original chassis had a combat-rated laser that was the size of a USB drive! Infantry lasers and accelerator guns are probably quite common at superpower military level.

So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that Bubbles in full combat rig is probably harder to stop than an armoured Hummer as well as being faster, more agile and probably able to engage multiple targets in a time frame that would be impossible for a human soldier. She's also apparently not entirely happy with that past.

[ZoeB]

According to her spec. sheet, it can resist up to 30mm APFSDS rounds

Fun fact: The penetrator of the M829 APFSDS has a caliber of only 27mm. It pierces half a meter (20in) of steel plating with ease. That metallo-ceramic armor of hers must be some seriously advanced stuff.

That would be classed as a 120mm APFSDS round. You use the diameter of the sabot, not the penetrator.

The 25mm APFSDS rounds I'm familiar with have 14.5mm penetrators with 10-15cm long penetrators. What's most important is length, not width. The M829 has various lengths from 63cm to 80cm in the hottest rounds. Muzzle velocity on small calibre guns is typically around 1400 m/sec, up to 1700 m/sec on the hottest 120mm rounds.

A reasonable rule of thumb is that penetration of armour is about equal to projectile length at normal ranges. Complex composites such as the famed "Chobham" armour can set up ripples in the rod that effectively reduce its length. And I can't say more, only talk about generalities from open source literature.

[Kugai]

I think that Bubbles has certain 'Intigration Issues' in regards to being a Civiian AI after coming from a Military AI background.

Here's a thought, what if Bubbles is an ex Military AI that was retired or mustered out PRIOR  to the integration of full AI rights, and had some bad experiences after she was demobbed?   It would certainly explain some of her attitudes and phobias as well as the fact that she prefers to remain secluded in the Robot Fight Club world and not[/] interact witht eh outside world.

[Zebediah]

Comic's up.

It's probably a good thing for Faye that Bubbles is a pacifist now.

[cesium133]

So, has Bubbles not updated her calendar in a long time, or is AprilArcus going to have to severely modify her timeline? 

[Perfectly Reasonable]

AI creation in the QCverse seems to be a chancy business. Try for an AI companion --- you might get Pintsize. Try for a soldier AI --- you might get Bubbles. Throw it out and try again? You can't. For Reasons. Maybe legal? But I suspect the real reason is that creating an AI is computationally expensive. Like minting bitcoins. So you find the best niche you can for what you've made.

Bubbles was probably Ok with her place in the world --- at first.

I wonder if May would have been happier to be in Bubble's shoes?

[DSL]

Oh, my favorite: The attitude that someone who prefers solitude to "society" somehow needs repair. I know so many people with that mimdset and was even asked by a supposedly well-meaning woman for suggestions on how to "help" her son. "Leave him alone," I said through what I hope looked like a smile.

[Is it cold in here?]

Jeph said on Twitter that the conversations between Faye and Bubbles almost write themselves. That means he's got the characterization down.

[jwhouk]

When conversations between characters come automatically to you - you know you've got something good.

[QuestionableIntentions]

For whatever bizarre reason I can now totally see a Bubbles/Sven relationship.

Svubbles.

[Is it cold in here?]

Oh, my favorite: The attitude that someone who prefers solitude to "society" somehow needs repair. I know so many people with that mimdset and was even asked by a supposedly well-meaning woman for suggestions on how to "help" her son. "Leave him alone," I said through what I hope looked like a smile.

[BenRG]

Oh, Bubbles? The answer is 'no', she doesn't constantly harangue her friends about their lifestyle. She only does it when she thinks said lifestyles are broken and need to be changed. From this fairly simple premise, it should be relatively easy to work out Faye's motivation in her constant bugging of you. I'm not saying that she's right and you're wrong but you know how they say understanding is the first step to communication!

Given that I'll bet all AIs have internal calendars and Faye is likely the first human employee the URFC has had for a long time, I suspect that the calendar has been sitting there, unchanged, since the last humans left the building over a decade ago... Or maybe Jeph is just trolling April.

[Tova]

Oh, Bubbles? The answer is 'no', she doesn't constantly harangue her friends about their lifestyle. She only does it when she thinks said lifestyles are broken and need to be changed.

Oh, such a shame you weren't there, because I'm sure that response would have smoothed things right over.

BTW, I believe the question she asked is commonly referred to as 'rhetorical.'

[BenRG]

BTW, I believe the question she asked is commonly referred to as 'rhetorical.'

Yes, but the reason behind the question is probably very important. She's being defensive and trying to divert Faye by insulting her. Unfortunately, insults are Faye's normal mode of affectionate social interaction, so Bubbles' tactic is flawed from the start! Faye actually thinks Bubbles is bonding with her!

[Neko_Ali]

I think that Bubbles is discovering that her usual ways to get humans to ignore her are not working on Faye. She's tried ignoring Faye, asking politely, using her size to physically intimidate and now insults. Most people probably would have got the hint by now. Unfortunately for her, that's how Faye acts to all her friends. Well, aside from asking politely. Faye would ask rudely. "Hey assbutt, mind giving me some space?"

[DSL]

A toss against the wall seems to be language Faye understands. -- advice from Pintsize.

[Somnus Eternus]

All I know is that I like how Faye determines friendship compatibility. 

That totally was a sick burn.

[Satan]

I spy QC's first robosexual relationship on the horizon!

Faye likes working with metal after all, hurr hurr hurr (i'm talking about the sex).

[Neko_Ali]

Let's not go there. Really. Don't go there.

[Is it cold in here?]

Please.

[Kugai]

I am most definitely interested in where Jeph is going with this.

[Radium_Coyote]

Probably a better thing for Bubbles.  She's a combat robot, built for that role.

Faye?  She had to rumble into that role.  Every waking moment has involved faye doing faye shit.  For years now.

A simple combat robot vs Faye?  That's not even a fight.  A better question is:

Why is Bubbles in this?  Faye I get, but Bubbles doesn't get NOTHING out of this.

[ReindeerFlotilla]

Bubbles get an environment where she is left alone, for the most part. Employment that keeps a roof over her head, and a steady diet of electrons.

If my guess about AI learning is correct, Bubbles has an easy means to apply skills she already has. If she is interested in getting away from the robo-fight scene, then she also gets income she can spend to learn new skills she could use in some other arena. However, given her reticence about dealing with seemingly everyone else, it's likely that a job she can do and still maintain her shut-in lifestyle is hard to find.

[Zebediah]

It could be that the "being left alone" part is critical to her. Bubbles doesn't want to talk about her past, and the robot-fighting community is very accepting of someone who doesn't want to talk about her past.

[Is it cold in here?]

Bubbles also can use it for the company of people who Understand, something veterans can't count on and often need.

[Method of Madness]

Bah, I go longer and longer forgetting to check for a new thread (since I post early and then just rely on the updated posts link). Anyway, hi Jeremy!

Also I'm a little disappointed that nobody in this thread mentioned the calendar being from the 18th century (or made to look like it for...reasons).

[Omega Entity]

Oh geez. Are we bringing that debate into this thread too?

[Perfectly Reasonable]

So Jeremy, what do you like to do on your day off?

[Zebediah]

So Jeremy, what do you like to do on your day off?

ARM WRESTLING!   

[Zog]

I am hoping that the arena turns out to be a haven for early artificial intelligences who have not integrated into society. I would find that very interesting. Bubbles had given me hope and seeing Jeremy intensifies it.

[jwhouk]

Faye just had a Foot Long Sandwich at the Robot Sub Shoppe.

[Neko_Ali]

What to stick your assembly foot into your mouth, Faye.

[mustang6172]

Why would humanoid be the best shape for a combat robot?  How effective is a bipedal tank?

[DSL]

Next we find out Bubbles has PTSD triggered by teddy bears. And logs.

[cesium133]

Log files, of course, not wooden logs.

[Morituri]

My take on Bubbles (when I was writing fanfic) was that she was built in a "Mark 1" chassis - ie, strictly military property built to military specification - back before AI rights became a thing.  When AI rights did become a thing, they had to give her the same rights as a human soldier - including the choice of mustering out or re-enlisting.  But she's a Mark-1 and not compatible with the analogous civilian hardware.  The Mark-2's, which would be what they produced after it became clear that military AI's do in fact have a right to muster out, would be built with AI modules and/or software compatible with civilian hardware, allowing AI's to be demilitarized - in this case meaning transferred to a "commodity" or civilian chassis - if and when they muster out. 

The Mark-2 compatibility with civilian AI modules or software would also be required for another reason:  The US has an all-volunteer military.  Once AI's have the rights of citizens you can't "conscript" them any more absent their voluntary cooperation, nor make them to-order for military service that they don't volunteer for.  Instead you have to send out recruiters to get civilian AI's to volunteer, the same as they have to get civilian humans to volunteer.  So naturally the Mark-2 chassis has to be compatible with the volunteers that might need to inhabit it.

But this leaves Bubbles is in the awkward position of a soldier who has mustered out (with what appears to be a possible case of PTSD) and is driving around the equivalent of a tank in civilian life, because its idiot builders, not anticipating the possibility of her leaving the military, didn't leave an exit hatch that would allow her to easily climb out. 

I don't know how much, if any, of this is similar to what Jeph is thinking or what will become canon, but that's how I interpreted it anyway, and it seems plausible to me. 

I hope to see her at the robot support group where May and Momo spend their Tuesday afternoons.  I think the interaction would be interesting, because May would be insanely jealous of the military chassis and Momo would probably have to remind her to be respectful and not fangirl all over it.

[Morituri]

"Anti-tank rifles are illegal in this state."

Is this implying there are states where they are legal?

Um, actually?  Yes.  Yes there are.  Nevada for one.  IIUC the rules there are weapons that do not fire more than one shell with a single pull of the trigger, have a magazine limited to less than some number of rounds I forget, and can be both carried by one person and fired from an upright position, are legal with a permit. 

An AT rifle is hellish to fire from an upright position, but it can be done.  No matter how strong you are, if you're human it'll knock you flat on your ass with bruises that won't heal for weeks. And you won't get that permit if you live in a densely populated area or aren't on really good terms with the local county sheriff, but otherwise, yes.  There are a number of people who legally own some damned heavy weapons out there.

[QuestionableIntentions]

The fact that Jeremy is there has two possible, rather disturbing implications:

1) Your average assembly arm can develop a taste for illegal violence

2) Jeremy got laid of in a way and now has to make his living by fighting.

[BenRG]

Welcome to Robotworld, Faye, where literally everything is quite likely sentient and has an attitude. I'm sure that you've made an enemy of the toilet too!

Y'know, I'm seriously thinking now that Jeph is writing this to be a slap upside Faye's head. Not only does her attitude lead her to make enemies with all her co-workers but she eventually has to quit because of the poisonous atmosphere she's created for herself in the workplace! So, she finds that she actually doesn't understand people at all, is very bad at making friends and is left wondering if her 'quirks' may be the cause of her having so few friends and so few options.

Basically, she only got away with it this long because Marten is (or at least used to be) an emotionally-crippled doormat and Dora is her friend and thus used to look the other way when she was mean to her employees. Maybe the time has come for her to re-assess how she interacts with people?

I know that it sounds a downer but, sometimes, you need to do that to force your characters to grow.

Why would humanoid be the best shape for a combat robot?  How effective is a bipedal tank?

Highly ineffective, actually. The US Army crunched the numbers and found that battlemechs' high silhouette made them a sitting duck for anti-tank missiles and artillery. Additionally, they could be spotted and tracked by enemies from far further away.

The fact that Jeremy is there has two possible, rather disturbing implications:

1) Your average assembly arm can develop a taste for illegal violence

2) Jeremy got laid of in a way and now has to make his living by fighting.

Or that, like Faye and Bubbles, he's one of the URFL's repair and maintenance staff, no more.

[Truec]

Why would humanoid be the best shape for a combat robot?  How effective is a bipedal tank?

I'll see your AT-ST and raise you one Metal Gear.

Wait, apparently my Metal Gear was just destroyed by one man on foot with a rocket launcher.  Never mind then.

[Thrillho]

[Lubricus]

Why would humanoid be the best shape for a combat robot?  How effective is a bipedal tank?

Oh, please! Those are easily defeated by fluffy, little teddy bears!