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Author Topic: The next generation of video games  (Read 36514 times)

Ozymandias

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The next generation of video games
« on: 06 Jan 2005, 16:42 »

The next handheld generation is already here, with the DS having been released and the PSP coming in March. Nothing new or interesting there.

The next console generation is rapidly approaching with rumours flying everywhere about what the big three are planning.

From Microsoft's corner: three different versions of the "Xenon" aka XBox 2 aka NextBox. A mini-version without a Hard Drive, a full version with the HD, and a PC version with a full OS and HD. Rumours say that an 2005 is absolutely certain.

From Sony's corner: The PS3 will useextremely high capacity Blu-Ray discs, Sony's Cell technology, which provides many, many processors that can be individually programmed to work seperately or together. Nothing more is known, but a 2006 release is probable.

From Nintendo's corner: The Revolution has been kept highly secret. Rumours say that the controller will lack a d-pad and A/B buttons. Nothing else is known for sure, but Nintendo is claiming that the final product will barely even resemble the traditional idea of a console. They have to get it out in 2006 or else.

So....where do your allegiances stand?
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Digs

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The next generation of video games
« Reply #1 on: 06 Jan 2005, 17:45 »

I trust Nintendo to keep me in a constant and blurred state of enjoyment.
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KID

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The next generation of video games
« Reply #2 on: 06 Jan 2005, 19:16 »

i'm a sony guy myself.
nintendo is a good first-party, but lacks in third-party support, ans so has fewer games i want to play.
i still have a GBA, though
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geoff

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« Reply #3 on: 06 Jan 2005, 22:06 »

the nextbox thing just sounds like a great way for microsoft to make a fuckton of money.

but i'll probably still buy it.

and no i'm not being all anti-microsoft because it's cool and hip. i dig my xbox, but the way they make it sound, it sounds like the nextbox is going to be pure bastardry.
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« Reply #4 on: 06 Jan 2005, 22:57 »

i think i can see through MS's plans.  they are going to make an attempt at mutating the xbox into something that will replace pcs.

ie: around 2010, expect the latest version of Windows to only be released on whatever incarnation of xbox they have at the time, and for them to plan on phasing out support for older OS's.  companies will need to decide what they are doing.  stay with normal pcs and receive no OS support, switch to MS hardware next cycle, switch to Linux or switch to Mac.

this is their way around the Linux issue.  they currently don't have total control over the hardware of the PC.  they do over the xbox.  of course, this will not stop people from hacking their xboxes, but Linux will stop being such a threat to their income.
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Kjammer

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The next generation of video games
« Reply #5 on: 06 Jan 2005, 22:59 »

Just hope Microsoft improves their tech-support division (highly unlikely).  

I can see it now.

Day of release: All "NextBoxs" are sold out
Day 2: 50% of the console's owners throw it out the window because tech support said "uh... go buy another one" or "uh... what's a "Xenon," I don't believe we carry that product."

How do they get away with bad custormer servise anyway?
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Deformagraphy

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« Reply #6 on: 07 Jan 2005, 00:18 »

I have high hopes for the PS3.  

Nintendo still has a chance at whatever the hell they're doing.

I still have minimal respect for my X-box and probably will feel the same about the next gen version.  It's become a really sophiscated DVD player in my household...that's about it.

Otherwise, it's going to be pretty kick ass.  Real-time emotion on consoles is the next step.  We'll actually, y'know, see forms of human beings that don't act (completely) like robots.
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #7 on: 07 Jan 2005, 00:40 »

A lot of people have been trying to predict what Nintendo's doing.

Some of my favorites:

The controller will have a touch screen instead of buttons.

The controller will use gyroscopes to detect movement for control.

The console itself will be handheld and portable with a screen and will dock into a little station connected to a TV that allows control via wireless next gen Wavebirds to charge and be able to be played on the TV.

It will be able to connect to the internet. (That one's ridiculous!)
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Spike

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« Reply #8 on: 07 Jan 2005, 08:01 »

I have to say I'm looking forward to Sony, unless Xbox gets some better games, that's the main thing that turns me off Xbox wise.
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happybirthdaygelatin

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« Reply #9 on: 07 Jan 2005, 12:15 »

i have interest in all three to a certain degree, i have no ties to any of the three companies.  i have the three main home consoles by all three companies at the moment, i just wish they wouldn't be so gungho already for the next big thing(s) as i spend more then enough money as it is between the three i have already.  if these come out all within the next two years i may have to resort to a life of crime to have enough money to keep up with my video game vice.
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« Reply #10 on: 07 Jan 2005, 12:36 »

Or just switch to PC gaming and only upgrade the parts you need to support ALL the latest games
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happybirthdaygelatin

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« Reply #11 on: 07 Jan 2005, 12:59 »

that is the saddest thing ever.
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Valen

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« Reply #12 on: 07 Jan 2005, 13:21 »

I used to be very into nintendo, due in large amount to the extremely high concentration of crap games i played on friend's playstations, and the sheer awesomeness of ocarina of time and of perfect dark.

  Since the launch of the ps2, xbox and gamecube, i have noticed a disturbing trend in the shrinkage of nintendo, which saddens me.  In all local Game stores (or Electronics Boutique) there is barely half a shelf dedicated to 'cube titles.  Why is this?  Nintendo are a great company with excellent cred, but in choosing to target mainly the young teenage audience, they may have made a crucial mistake.  Kids around my brother's age (13-15) are not looking for a 'kiddy' image console.  Most of his friends would prefer an xbox or ps2, simply because they're more "grown up".  

   This is a pity, because there are a number (albeit small) of very good mature games on the cube (soul calibur 2, eternal darkness, resident evil zero).  The more observant of you may point out that SC2 and RE0 are available on ps2 as well, but having played both versions, I hold that the gamecube version is superior in performance and controller efficiency.

  Just my 2 cents worth (or 1.06978p)
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #13 on: 07 Jan 2005, 13:27 »

Nintendo's problem is purely image. It's most even an unfounded image, but it's what's sticking to them anyway and it's really very sad. They make bright, colorful games that are really, really fun, so they're labelled as being for kids.

It's very sad. And Wind Waker didn't help that image at all, despite how dark the storyline was.
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Deformagraphy

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« Reply #14 on: 07 Jan 2005, 13:42 »

Honestly, the situation with Nintendo doesn't bother me.  As long as they still exist, I'll be fine.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go daydream in the corner about next Tuesday and me rubbing the Resident Evil 4 package all over my body.
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Phobos

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« Reply #15 on: 07 Jan 2005, 19:54 »

Still going to be a PC gamer =/
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will: wanton sex god

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« Reply #16 on: 08 Jan 2005, 05:43 »

???  youve been hearing some bad rumors.
a: its somewhat official name is X-Box Next
b: i dont know wher eyou got your info on either the x box next or the ps3.
and lastly c: you were somewhat right on the nintendo thing.  almost no information has been released (similar to xbox next and ps3) its only known that its goign to be very unconventional and supposed to be revolutionary in ways other than technical.
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« Reply #17 on: 08 Jan 2005, 06:12 »

Quote from: 3Z3VH
Or just switch to PC gaming and only upgrade the parts you need to support ALL the latest games
I dislike the need to constantly update PCs.   I like to know that when I go out and spend ~$50US that I can go home, put it in the console, and play it.  Not take it home, put it in the PC, then go spend Another ~$50US+ updating hardware.   That's not to say I don't like or don't play PC games.. but I think the PS is more leaned towards FPS and RTS games, where a console controller isn't so well suited as the quick turn of a mouse.  but for games that don't require quick movement of a targeting recticle a controller is superiour in that all the controlls are right at your fingertips for nice, easy access.

That's more like $1.50 than $0.02, I think.
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #18 on: 08 Jan 2005, 10:44 »

Quote from: will: wanton sex god
???  youve been hearing some bad rumors.
a: its somewhat official name is X-Box Next
b: i dont know wher eyou got your info on either the x box next or the ps3.
and lastly c: you were somewhat right on the nintendo thing.  almost no information has been released (similar to xbox next and ps3) its only known that its goign to be very unconventional and supposed to be revolutionary in ways other than technical.


Everything I said has been floating around the internet for some time now. There's still no official name for the next MS system(its development name was Xenon), but the three pronged attack was rumoured from leaked MS documents and the PS3 info has been said outright from Sony for months and months.

And I can't wait to try RTS games on the DS. It's the first non-PC platform that can possibly do it well.
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Johnny C

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« Reply #19 on: 08 Jan 2005, 22:05 »

Nintendo's DS, which I had high hopes for, STILL managed to surprise the hell out of me with its awesomeness. I wait eagerly for the Revolution.
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Phobos

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« Reply #20 on: 08 Jan 2005, 23:08 »

When you get all the bugs and BS worked out on a PC (I use this as a general term for Macs and Windows-based systems) you get the added bonus of getting to modify your games.  Assuming they're popular enough to warrant such a community.  Half-Life, for example, would not have Counster-Strike, Day of Defeat, or Firearms if it had been released on consoles only.  You also get bonus maps you can download once you've finished the game (or if you got bored half-way).  Plus, you can take screenshots or record movies and send them to your friends.  


As far as a controller being more convenient because the buttons are close at hand, I play all my games with right hand on the mouse and left hand on the keyboard (WASD baby!).  That gives me 5 buttons on one hand, and about 29 on the other.  A PS2 controller has 17 buttons plus the analog sticks.  The only games I'd rather play with a controller than a keyboard are driving games or flight simulators, and even then, a steering wheel or joystick would be better.  

I'll admit, a PC can be very frustrating when you buy a game and it doesn't work properly.  But that's the risk you take for a greater degree of gaming freedom.  Plus, people who game exclusively on PCs often build their own gaming rigs, and customize them to their tastes.  They work hard to get the most out of their games, and they take pride in it.  If something goes wrong, those who work to fix it stand out amoung those who simply give up. It's just a different community.  It's like those who buy a car from the dealership, and take it back there whenever something goes wrong, and those who buy a used car, fix it up, and perform any repairs on their own.  

I can't take Portable Gaming seriously.  It's great if you're bored and just need quick entertainment, but as far as investing a lot of time and effort into a game, I'd still rather have a PC.  Even if technology advances to the point where they can fit the gaming power of a PC into the size of a cell phone or handheld, you're still stuck with a 3" screen and tiny controls.  I just don't think they're worth the money.
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #21 on: 08 Jan 2005, 23:31 »

It's a real shame the video game industry disagrees with you then, since the majority of profit and innovation comes from the consoles.

I can't even explain it. Things are just more fun on consoles. PC gaming is too damn expensive for me. I can barely run The Sims 2, so forget anything else I want to play on PC.

Microsoft has already integrated most of those benefits to PC gaming you spoke of into console gaming. Many, many XBox games have downloadable levels and content. Nintendo's planning on doing it with the DS.

My PC has given me an amazing video game experience exactly twice. Half-Life and Starcraft. My SNES alone has given me that many times over, nevermind my 10 other consoles.
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Maverick

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« Reply #22 on: 08 Jan 2005, 23:34 »

I live in Australia and i must say, xbox has the goods hands down on playstation or the 'kiddy cube'.  it is a shame that nintendo is drifting towards the pre-schooler area, but xbox has filled the gap nicely for me. games like the halo series provide for an unparralleled* (in my experience) multiplayer experience and ninja gaiden (though nowhere near as good) has satiated my need for a 'Zelda' type game.  I dunno, the prospect of ever-increasing complication in consoles is a bit overwhelming for me, i just want to play decent games with a decent feel to them and at the moment, i have found that atmosphere on the box.
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #23 on: 08 Jan 2005, 23:39 »

"it is a shame that nintendo is drifting towards the pre-schooler area"

Exactly what I'm talking about in terms of image. Nintendo hasn't drifted anywhere. It's in the exact same place it's always been and even, actually, more mature thanks to games like Eternal Darkness and the entire RE series. The industry has shifted older and Nintendo refuses to go with it.
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Phobos

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« Reply #24 on: 08 Jan 2005, 23:51 »

I'm not just talking about downloading content.  Almost anyone can download content.  I'm talking making your own.  How easy is that with an Xbox?  Last I checked, Discreet didn't have a console port for 3D Studio Max.

CS, DoD, FA, etc weren't created by Valve, it was individuals from the gaming community who got together and wanted a different experience from Half-Life.

The video game industry doesn't disagree with me,  I know the majority of people choose consoles, because they're easier to deal with.  Economically it's a better choice to appeal to console gamers, since there are more of them.  Just like, going back to my previous example, most people buy cars from dealerships and take them back there when something goes wrong.  They have little interest in how their car operates, as long as it does what they need it to, they're happy.  

Hardcore PC gamers are a select few amoung the masses, I realize this.  We're not the main demographic that console manufacturers should be marketing to, and we're not the number one consumers of the video game industry.  We don't produce large enough profits.  I was getting to this earlier, we represent a minority.  An elite minority, but a minority none the less.

So yes, the majority of profit comes from consoles, but I'd disagree with you on the innovation.  Everything that's been done on consoles, has been done on a PC first.  Maybe not as well, but the idea originated from PC games.  Hell, consoles are PCs, they're just trimmed down, mass-marketed gaming-only versions.
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« Reply #25 on: 09 Jan 2005, 07:11 »

Quote from: Ozymandias
Quote from: will: wanton sex god
???  youve been hearing some bad rumors.
a: its somewhat official name is X-Box Next
b: i dont know wher eyou got your info on either the x box next or the ps3.
and lastly c: you were somewhat right on the nintendo thing.  almost no information has been released (similar to xbox next and ps3) its only known that its goign to be very unconventional and supposed to be revolutionary in ways other than technical.


Everything I said has been floating around the internet for some time now. There's still no official name for the next MS system(its development name was Xenon), but the three pronged attack was rumoured from leaked MS documents and the PS3 info has been said outright from Sony for months and months.

And I can't wait to try RTS games on the DS. It's the first non-PC platform that can possibly do it well.



well, id like to see some sources then, sir.
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #26 on: 09 Jan 2005, 12:23 »

You trust me so little?

No problem...

I admit, the three versions of the XBox rumor has the least credible source, but it does have a source.

Xenon code name for new XBox

Microsoft planning three version of XBox 2

Cell by 2006 info (It takes a long time to search these archives...)

Article speculating that the PS3 will actually be pushed to 2007 due to Sony wanting to use Cell and Blu-Ray

Confirmation that the PS3 will use Blu-Ray

I actually can't find a definite statement saying the PS3 will use Cell, though I could've sworn one existed.
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c1utch

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« Reply #27 on: 09 Jan 2005, 14:18 »

dont forget the announcment that "halo 2.5" would be released with the second xbox console

all xbox 2 (and a good bit on ps3) information can be found here:

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=155839&st=105

basically, whats pretty much expected, is 3 versions, like Ozymandias said.

Both the ps3 and the new xbox's chips are in theory made or designed by IBM, however the xbox's will probabally be a powerpc ship similar to what is found in the powermac G5s.

I wouldn't be suprised if no news has come from nintendo because they havn't actually begun to design a new console yet.  

And in response to the view of nintendo as a kiddie company: I am of that view.  Nintendo may not have changed over the last however many years, but gamers sure have.  They've grown up.  Mortal Kombat has blood now, without a cheat code.  I'm 16, when the xbox/GC came out I was a good 13, and even then I felt as though the GC was for my 8 year old cousin.  

The same with the DS vs the PSP, in reality, I feel silly, immature holding the DS.  I can't explain why, it may be the pictochat program, or just my memory relating mario64 to when I was 11.
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happybirthdaygelatin

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« Reply #28 on: 10 Jan 2005, 12:45 »

as to the "image of nintendo" thing i think it takes a level of maturity reached to realize you don't concern your self with your "images" and can appreciate a good game, regardless of the system.

i'm with ozymandias on prefering consoles to personal computers but that has more to do with my budget and prefence.  both have stronger and weaker points as you have both pointed out.  there is innovation in both fields and they both make their corporations involved rich off us.  so everbody wins because they have choice, yay.
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #29 on: 10 Jan 2005, 13:57 »

I'm not sure what "growing up" has to do with refusing to play good games though.

So what if the games are kid friendly? They're still fantastic and fun.
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happybirthdaygelatin

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« Reply #30 on: 10 Jan 2005, 14:32 »

that is pretty much what i was trying to say.  maybe i are dumb?

Quote
ie: around 2010, expect the latest version of Windows to only be released on whatever incarnation of xbox they have at the time, and for them to plan on phasing out support for older OS's. companies will need to decide what they are doing. stay with normal pcs and receive no OS support, switch to MS hardware next cycle, switch to Linux or switch to Mac.


hmm, as far as the potential for dominating the market that kind of sounds awesome.  i could say bring my x-box (or what ever absurd name it may have to the extreme) games to work and play them on the same machine that has windows and all of my work stuff.
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« Reply #31 on: 10 Jan 2005, 14:35 »

Quote from: Ozymandias
It's a real shame the video game industry disagrees with you then, since the majority of profit and innovation comes from the consoles.

I can't even explain it. Things are just more fun on consoles. PC gaming is too damn expensive for me. I can barely run The Sims 2, so forget anything else I want to play on PC.

Microsoft has already integrated most of those benefits to PC gaming you spoke of into console gaming. Many, many XBox games have downloadable levels and content. Nintendo's planning on doing it with the DS.

My PC has given me an amazing video game experience exactly twice. Half-Life and Starcraft. My SNES alone has given me that many times over, nevermind my 10 other consoles.


Actually, the gaming industry agrees with me.  

Most profitable game of all time ?  Everquest.

Highest sales in their first month ?  World of Warcraft. (I feel they would have beaten EQ already in that first if they hadn't purposely halted distro)

Played the most (in both hours and number of people playing at one time) ?  Counterstrike.

Longest lasting continuous sales ?  Starcraft.

The only reason consoles even still exist are that you can just plop it down and play the game, the learning curve is VERY shallow for consoles, and the IMMEDIATE cost is cheaper for a console.

What console gamers don't realise, is they are buying new consoles every year or two, while a PC can be upgraded for years before needing to be replaced.  I know someone who plays Doom3 (known as the highest requirements for any game as of yet) on a P3 1GHz system.  And Starcraft, which is still actively sold in stores will run on as low as a Pentium 133MHz system.

Once PCs become a part of EVERYONE'S lives, I see the console going the way of the dodo.

As it is, all TVs are now becoming Monitors... and with that, people will become less and less satisfied with passive television when they can more actively use it on things such as MediaCenter PCs, and Digital Cable content, which means they will already have a computer on their TV, and will get the same "Turn the game on and play" experience, making consoles obsolete.

When you say you can't even play the Sims 2 because PCs are too expensive... ever consider all the money you spend on all those consoles ?  If you would have put that money into your PC it would be more than adequate.

I also don't know where you get the idea that "the majority of innovation comes from the consoles"... last I checked it was the other way around.  I can think of only a single game that started on the console, then they made a PC version, but I can think of tons that did the opposite.  Not to mention the fact that the latest technology in just about any graphics and games are being driven by the PC market, since a console takes so long to produce the hardware in it is comparatively obsolete by the time it is released, while the PC can simply be upgraded.

I'd be curious what 'innovation' you are speaking of.  All the Dynamic Texture and Lighting engines were on the PC first.  Harware rendering ?  PC first.  Cell shading ?  PC.  Networked gaming ?  PC.  Internet gaming ?  PC.

How about Genres:  
FPS ?  PC
RTS ? PC
MUD ? PC
MMO ?  PC
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« Reply #32 on: 10 Jan 2005, 16:55 »

The next generation after this:

We will all be running around on the playstation nine playing grand theft auto 11 1/2-3 ONLINE. And just now there is a big thug about to bash your brains out. But this is no thug. It's actually a nine year old girl named lily with horrible parents who do not pay enough attention to her. She has diabetes and hooked on crack, and got raped by a bear the day before.
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« Reply #33 on: 10 Jan 2005, 16:55 »

James you are The Man.
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« Reply #34 on: 10 Jan 2005, 17:04 »

My Alligence is only with Sega, who is rumoured to be re-entering the market with a portable.

Very little is known about the "Prometheus", but if its true, it might be the boost sega needs to get back in the game.
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« Reply #35 on: 10 Jan 2005, 17:14 »

I don't even know where that Counterstrike statistic came from, but to site MMORPGs for highest amount of money made is ridiculous.

Of course they make more money. SOE specifically designed Everquest to be an addictive money pit that people spend large amounts of money on a year.   They designed it like a drug.

The top selling games of all time are still console games and console sales aren't exactly dropping. Halo 2 outsold any PC game that came out this year. (Not that it deserved that title, but it's true.) Everyone owns a PC in America. Only a handful of those people care about PC games enough to have a PC that they can play the games on. Why? Because PC games are always trying to use bigger and better technology. That means that every 6 months, Joe Schmoe has to buy more RAM or a new video card if he wants to be playing those games at a respectable FPS.

The average lifespan of a console is 5 years. You buy a $300 console every 5 years to keep on the curve. That's cheap. That's effective. That's not going anywhere.

Most "innovations" that the PC gaming industry has brought are simply due to better technology. Not any real gameplay innovations, just physics and graphics are improving.

I like to think of consoles as a very standardized form of poetry. You know your exact constraints so you're forced to be creative and new within that form instead of trying to meander off into different worlds. You get much more intelligent games from consoles than PCs.

The only thing significantly better about PC gaming is indie games. Anyone can program for the PC. They can't really make much money, but they can introduce great new ideas.
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Digs

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« Reply #36 on: 10 Jan 2005, 17:16 »

When will people learn that it is useless to stand before Nintendo in the handheld market? How many crappy portables will have to be discarded by the world?
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c1utch

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« Reply #37 on: 10 Jan 2005, 17:21 »

I know i've probabally played more CS (if you count 1,5, 1,6. Source, and the xbox version) than any other game.
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #38 on: 10 Jan 2005, 17:21 »

Sony's going to make a very large dent in that this year, I think.

The PSP is, unfortunately, not going to go the way of the Lynx or Nomad or Game Gear or N-Gage or Neo Geo Pocket or Wonderswan or my God so many people have died in the face of Nintendo.

It's actually going to be effective though, because the same group of people that the Playstation originally sucked into the industry are going to be sucked in by the PSP too.
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Jiperly

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« Reply #39 on: 10 Jan 2005, 17:30 »

But if they do take over the Portable market, they will crush the competetion- GameBoy Sales, and now DS sales, is the only thing keeping Nintendo afloat. Well over 3/4 of their earnings come from the Portable market- if Sony or Sega can grab a portion of that, not only will they be more powerful, but they will in turn crush the only competion, and take a market that previously was making Nintendo Tens of Millions each year. in 2003, a found a chart(that has now since become a dead link) that said that Nintendo made a total of 43 Million a year- almost as much as Playstation does with their titles.

If Nintendo loses the Portable War, they're gone.
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #40 on: 10 Jan 2005, 17:41 »

I'm pretty sure that Prometheus thing is a hoax, BTW.

I didn't hear about it at all during E3 and I was glued to my monitor the whole time.
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Phobos

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« Reply #41 on: 11 Jan 2005, 01:07 »

Quote
Most "innovations" that the PC gaming industry has brought are simply due to better technology. Not any real gameplay innovations, just physics and graphics are improving.


Still have to disagree with you there.  We're not just talking about technology-wise.  I can't think of any gameplay concept that's been devised on a console.  Except maybe pong.  And pong sucked cock anyway.  RPGs, FPSs, Sports games, driving games, flight simulators, side-scroll action games, 3rd person action games, RTS games, turn-based strategy games (although I guess those technically originated from board games), solo play, multiplayer, co-op, capture the flag, etc, etc, etc.

I stand firmly behind my statement earlier that consoles are just trimmed-down, mass-marketted, gaming only PCs.
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torg

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« Reply #42 on: 11 Jan 2005, 07:19 »

actually gaming was first seen on an old number cruncher. the game was "core wars"
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« Reply #43 on: 11 Jan 2005, 09:27 »

Quote from: torg
actually gaming was first seen on an old number cruncher. the game was "core wars"


Actually gaming was first seen when Thad beat Grok in a fight just for the hell of it.
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3Z3VH

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« Reply #44 on: 11 Jan 2005, 09:33 »

Quote from: James
Man, this thread is rife with people straight up inventing facts. When you are deciding that a gaming genre was first seen on Personal Computer, it would be helpful if you could name which specific game you're talking about. That way people can name an earlier, console-only example and point triumphantly.


FPS: Wolfenstein 3-D
RTS: Warcraft
RPG: Hmm... How about... Carmen Sandiego ?
Turn-Based Strategy: Oregon Trail
MMO: I believe it was Ultima Online... not sure though.
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« Reply #45 on: 11 Jan 2005, 10:26 »

And now you show hypocricy by not doing what you wanted us to do.  Tell us what was the first.
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Phobos

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« Reply #46 on: 11 Jan 2005, 12:39 »

Actually, he has to tell us which console games preceded all those.
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« Reply #47 on: 11 Jan 2005, 12:41 »

Nah, I don't think he ever stated which side (if any) of the argument he is on... but if he is going to say Warcraft wasn't the first RTS, he is just as bad as the people he was complaining about by not saying what was first.
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Phobos

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« Reply #48 on: 11 Jan 2005, 12:58 »

Quote
That way people can name an earlier, console-only example and point triumphantly.


Seems pretty obvious to me which side he's on.

If we want to go oldschool and discuss things like the Atari and Commodore consoles, then we need to acknowledge that they were first considered "non-IBM compatible personal computers."  Pong, on the other hand, was first played on an oscilliscope.  I'd hardly consider that a console.
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« Reply #49 on: 11 Jan 2005, 13:05 »

I can't wait till someone actually comes up with a game that was on the console first, so we can ask what they programmed it on (and thusly debugged by playing it on the computer they programmed it on)
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