Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

  • 17 Feb 2019, 08:29
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Computer beats human champion at Go  (Read 2463 times)

hedgie

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,560
  • Can't be buggered at all
Computer beats human champion at Go
« on: 27 Jan 2016, 11:05 »

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35420579

Quote
A Google artificial intelligence program has beaten the European champion of the board game Go.
The Chinese game is viewed as a much tougher challenge than chess for computers because there are many more ways a Go match can play out.
The tech company's DeepMind division said its software had beaten its human rival five games to nil.
One independent expert called it a breakthrough for AI with potentially far-reaching consequences.

Logged
"A person who may charitably described as 'not entirely a waste of resources, but mostly so.'"  -- Momo

"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, 'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!"  -- The Pythons

Is it cold in here?

  • Administrator
  • Awakened
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,445
Re: Computer beats human champion at Go
« Reply #1 on: 27 Jan 2016, 16:21 »

This is big news. Conventional wisdom was that Go was going to be too difficult for computers.
Logged
Not tonight, dear. I have a boundary.
Quote from: an unnamed minister's sermon
In your face, darkness!  We are the light and we outnumber you!

osaka

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,434
Re: Computer beats human champion at Go
« Reply #2 on: 28 Jan 2016, 12:02 »

They probably didn't think that memories and storage would get as fast as they have. After all, "complexity" is just another way to call "decision tree depth".
Logged
Meh, if you have to run fsck, you're already fscked.

Kugai

  • CIA Handler of Miss Melody Powers
  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11,503
  • Crazy Kiwi Shoujo-Ai Fan
    • My Homepage
Re: Computer beats human champion at Go
« Reply #3 on: 28 Jan 2016, 12:44 »

WOULD. YOU. LIKE. TO. PLAY. A. NICE. GAME. OF. CHESS?
Logged
James The Kugai 

You can never have too much Coffee.

hedgie

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,560
  • Can't be buggered at all
Re: Computer beats human champion at Go
« Reply #4 on: 28 Jan 2016, 13:21 »

They probably didn't think that memories and storage would get as fast as they have. After all, "complexity" is just another way to call "decision tree depth".

From what I have read, Go actually can't be brute-forced, at least not with today's technology.  Much of the advance really is from improvements to learning AI, as well as the ability of a computer to train by playing millions of games in a fairly short period of time.
Logged
"A person who may charitably described as 'not entirely a waste of resources, but mostly so.'"  -- Momo

"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, 'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!"  -- The Pythons

Castlerook

  • Older than Moses
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,343
  • Captain Sarcastic
Re: Computer beats human champion at Go
« Reply #5 on: 28 Jan 2016, 13:50 »

I, for one, welcome our new computerised masters and as a human of dubious moral conviction, I could be useful in rounding up others to serve as organic battery packs!
Logged
Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart but I am street smart.", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I am imaginary smart."

osaka

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,434
Re: Computer beats human champion at Go
« Reply #6 on: 28 Jan 2016, 15:57 »

They probably didn't think that memories and storage would get as fast as they have. After all, "complexity" is just another way to call "decision tree depth".

From what I have read, Go actually can't be brute-forced, at least not with today's technology.  Much of the advance really is from improvements to learning AI, as well as the ability of a computer to train by playing millions of games in a fairly short period of time.

Well, it can't be bruteforced from turn 0, but I'm pretty sure that at some point you can enter the realm of what can be bruteforced. Although yeah, deep learning is an advancement.
Logged
Meh, if you have to run fsck, you're already fscked.

Akima

  • Preventing third impact
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,168
  • ** 妇女能顶半边天 **
Re: Computer beats human champion at Go
« Reply #7 on: 28 Jan 2016, 21:42 »

This is an impressive feat, but Google's posting should be put in context. The human player was Fan Hui 2p, and Google describes him as "an elite professional player". A 2-dan professional will be a strong player, and certainly much stronger than I am, but at Fan's age it makes him a "journeyman" pro, not "elite". Fan Hui has won tournaments in Europe, but that is strictly bush-league, and he has no track record of wins or even decent placings against the top pros from Korea, China, and Japan.

Google is not resting on its laurels though; Lee Sedol 9p has accepted a challenge to play AlphaGo in March. It's a toss-up whether Lee Sedol or Gu Li 9p was the strongest player in the world for the first decade of the 21st century, so that is definitely moving up to the first division, and I'm looking forward eagerly to seeing the games.

Despite what Google claims, this is not the first time a professional player has been beaten by a computer program. In 2012 Takemiya Masaki 9p was twice beaten by Zen, but he gave the computer five stones for the first game and four stones for the second. It is impressive that AlphaGo was able to win against a pro on equal terms, and I think it's the first time that has been done.

It's been clear for some time that computers beating top humans at Go was a matter of "when" not "if".
« Last Edit: 28 Jan 2016, 21:48 by Akima »
Logged
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered, than answers that can't be questioned." Richard Feynman

RedWolf4

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,253
  • Stop that.
Re: Computer beats human champion at Go
« Reply #8 on: 30 Jan 2016, 21:43 »

We can still welcome our Robot overlords and go Quisling on everyone though right?
Logged
Winner of the award for 'Best Nigh-Constant Look of Disgust and Bewilderment 2018'.

Masterpiece

  • Older than Moses
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,362
  • No time for Claireification
    • Things To Remember
Re: Computer beats human champion at Go
« Reply #9 on: 04 Feb 2016, 13:32 »

The real question should be, "when will we reach the moment the computer know it's playing go, instead of just hammering down a simple algorithm?"

Schmee

  • Pneumatic ratchet pants
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 349
  • ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)
Re: Computer beats human champion at Go
« Reply #10 on: 05 Feb 2016, 05:57 »

A long, long way away. That ability - to 'jump up a level' of reasoning - is kinda a big thing in AI research.
Logged
work it ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ harder 
make it (ง ̀_́)ง better 
do it ᕦ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕤ faster 
raise your ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ donger

Masterpiece

  • Older than Moses
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,362
  • No time for Claireification
    • Things To Remember
Re: Computer beats human champion at Go
« Reply #11 on: 21 Feb 2016, 17:15 »

I know. I just watched Ex Machina, and it's a wonderful movie.

hedgie

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,560
  • Can't be buggered at all
Re: Computer beats human champion at Go
« Reply #12 on: 09 Mar 2016, 10:36 »

Update.  Game 1, the computer beats South Korea's Lee Se-dol.  There are four matches to go however, so maybe the human species will make a comeback.

www.bbc.com/news/technology-35761246
Logged
"A person who may charitably described as 'not entirely a waste of resources, but mostly so.'"  -- Momo

"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, 'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!"  -- The Pythons

Akima

  • Preventing third impact
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,168
  • ** 妇女能顶半边天 **
Re: Computer beats human champion at Go
« Reply #13 on: 12 Mar 2016, 04:25 »

Logged
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered, than answers that can't be questioned." Richard Feynman

Skewbrow

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,788
  • damn it
Re: Computer beats human champion at Go
« Reply #14 on: 19 Mar 2016, 11:07 »

The final score was 4-1. Lee Sedol won game four. He managed to get an edge in the center in the middle game. Shortly after it realized that it was losing Alphago started making really questionable moves. There have been fun speculations about why Lee Sedol's trick move worked. Apparently the correct continuation was difficult to spot and Alphago's Monte Carlo -approach missed it. Unfortunately I'm not informed enough about either Go or AI to understand the details. Anyway.
  • Google reps (and enthusiasts at a go server I frequent) praised that one move by Lee Sedol, but other top ranked pros are not sure it really would have worked.
  • Towards the end Alphago made moves that even I understand were no-hopers. Apparently its design does not allow it to look for moves that would give the strongest resistance (and best chance for a human opponent under severe time pressure to make mistakes)

My frogeye perspective observations.
  • to some extent Lee Sedol underestimated his opponent before the first game. Apparently Alphago had learned a lot since its match against Fan Hui.
  • In games two and three Lee Sedol didn't really have a chance. May be the pressure was too much?
  • In games four and five, with the match already decided, Lee Sedol played better. The last game was very close even though he lost it.

Congrats to the team who programmed Alphago. Wonderfully implemented learning algorithms (and the approach of having two grids of computers - one working on the strategy, the other on the local tactics. If only Alphago could also explain why it played the way it did.
Logged
QC  - entertaining you with regular shots in the butt since 2003.

Is it cold in here?

  • Administrator
  • Awakened
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,445
Logged
Not tonight, dear. I have a boundary.
Quote from: an unnamed minister's sermon
In your face, darkness!  We are the light and we outnumber you!
Pages: [1]   Go Up