Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Bubbles busts through a wall and shouts "Oh yeah!"

Marten asks where the bridal catalog came from

Claire buys a corset

Tai, Dora and Faye play mini golf!

Emily and Clin-ton have an excellent adventure followed by a less memorable bogus journey

[mustang6172]

I'll look to like, if looking liking move:
But no more deep will I endart mine eye
Than your consent gives strength to make it fly.

[WoaLG]

I rather like Sam's suggestion

And Momo is always so understanding when people make mistakes. She's a good example for humans to follow irl.

[BenRG]

Well, at least we know the reason why Sam is so accepting of Jim's relationship with Veronica: she loves her home-made cookies! So long as she has weapons like that in her arsenal, Sam won't be complaining! 

So, what do you think? Is it rude for Veronica to forget that Momo is a synthetic, or is it a sign of her acceptance that she hardly thinks about it? I can see both sides' argument, frankly.

Jeph definitely has teenage relatives; his characterisation of Sam's body language is just right!

[WoaLG]

I'd say it's a sign of acceptance. It's good that Veronica understands Momo's differences but she mostly interacts with other humans and human is her default mental model of a person. That she automatically lumps Momo in with the other people she cares about means she considers Momo equal to other people and not something "Other."

I hope I made sense and I'm not just rambling.

And EVERYBODY loves home-made cookies.

[Is it cold in here?]

"As long as everyone tries their best, that is what matters".

That's a high standard. Momo is not letting us off the hook at all.

[MrNumbers]

I think the bigger faux pas would have been to not have made the offer.

[hedgie]

What I fail to understand is why, given this, and Pintsize's love for eating/imbibing despite what it does has no one in the QCverse ever come up with a small flexible holding tank so that an AI can eat?  Even if say, Momo's mouth is too rigid, and internal space too lacking to do so, there would most likely be chassis on the market that would have the required components.  And those AIs would likely have the money to buy regular enzyme-liquid (saliva) cartridges the same way we waste money on printer ink.

[sheenobu]

I'd say it's a sign of acceptance. It's good that Veronica understands Momo's differences but she mostly interacts with other humans and human is her default mental model of a person. That she automatically lumps Momo in with the other people she cares about means she considers Momo equal to other people and not something "Other."

Finding out you aren't part of someones default mental model of a person can be an alienating experience. I would consider it an off-the-cuff definition of Othering. I don't think Veronica did anything wrong but she does seem nervous about Momo. It makes me wonder what the QC AI timeline is? (I'm sure it's written down somewhere). Is Veronica not as used to AIs as the people her sons age?

[WoaLG]

I'd say it's a sign of acceptance. It's good that Veronica understands Momo's differences but she mostly interacts with other humans and human is her default mental model of a person. That she automatically lumps Momo in with the other people she cares about means she considers Momo equal to other people and not something "Other."

Finding out you aren't part of someones default mental model of a person can be an alienating experience. I would consider it an off-the-cuff definition of Othering. I don't think Veronica did anything wrong but she does seem nervous about Momo. It makes me wonder what the QC AI timeline is? (I'm sure it's written down somewhere). Is Veronica not as used to AIs as the people her sons age?

Hmm, I didn't consider that. I wonder what the ratio of AI to Humans is, and how many of those AIs are wearing Chasis like Momo and May that are humanoid enough to pass as human at first glance.

[Truec]

What I fail to understand is why, given this, and Pintsize's love for eating/imbibing despite what it does has no one in the QCverse ever come up with a small flexible holding tank so that an AI can eat? 

They did.  Pintsize has one.

[WoaLG]

It makes me wonder what the QC AI timeline is? (I'm sure it's written down somewhere). Is Veronica not as used to AIs as the people her sons age?

I don't know exactly when AIs came into being, but it was at least as early as 1994, since http://jephjacques.com/post/14655843351/un-hearing-on-ai-rights happens in 1999 and it says that the first AI spent 5 years in a box.

[Is it cold in here?]

I'd say it's a sign of acceptance. It's good that Veronica understands Momo's differences but she mostly interacts with other humans and human is her default mental model of a person. That she automatically lumps Momo in with the other people she cares about means she considers Momo equal to other people and not something "Other."

Finding out you aren't part of someones default mental model of a person can be an alienating experience. I would consider it an off-the-cuff definition of Othering. I don't think Veronica did anything wrong but she does seem nervous about Momo. It makes me wonder what the QC AI timeline is? (I'm sure it's written down somewhere). Is Veronica not as used to AIs as the people her sons age?

Welcome, curious new person!

I don't think we have a complete timeline for AI development but we know that full civil rights are a recent development and the outcome of a long struggle. We know that Station has been around at least twenty years, so it must have been a really long struggle.

[sheenobu]

Welcome, curious new person!

Thank you! Long time forum lurker. I tried to login to my non-existent account today then realized I had never made one. 

I don't think we have a complete timeline for AI development but we know that full civil rights are a recent development and the outcome of a long struggle. We know that Station has been around at least twenty years, so it must have been a really long struggle.

I never thought about Station since they live in space away from cookie related misunderstandings.

[anahata]

Station may be over 20, but since he's part of the E-C research project he may have been around for a long time before AI's started going out into the world as companions for ordinary (not technically minded) people.

[BenRG]

I've long wondered if Station might be one of the Gen-Zero AIs, the very first tranche that were laboriously put together in a lab rather than just generated with proven technology. If he is, then the other AIs probably look upon him as one of the Elders and the fact that he helped raise Hannelore (in fact, may be closer to her, emotionally, than her mother and possibly even her father) can only further raise her status in their eyes.

[Qazwer]

I don't know exactly when AIs came into being, but it was at least as early as 1994, since http://jephjacques.com/post/14655843351/un-hearing-on-ai-rights happens in 1999 and it says that the first AI spent 5 years in a box.

I just read that speech. Thanks for the link, and man, I just realised that there might be tons of more canon material on the QCverse (apart from the comic itself)

[osaka]

Is it me or Sam's offering seems like something more appropriate for Bubbles' smell calibration?

[ZoeB]

"As long as everyone tries their best, that is what matters".

That's a high standard. Momo is not letting us off the hook at all.

Maybe if you just do your best to do your best. Everyone's human fallible.

Veronica felt bad about a minor faux pas. The kind thing to do under those circumstances for the aggrieved party is to offer comfort and forgiveness. Momo came through brilliantly, which is what I'd expect from her. However, while I'd expect it, it would be wrong to take it for granted. Everyone's human fallible after all, and no-one (least of all me) lives up to our ideals all the time.  Just do your best to do your best, and you won't go far wrong. That works for me, anyway.

[Method of Madness]

Also, it should be noted that the cookie was not worthless to Momo. The offer of the cookie was made expecting it to be eaten, but Momo benefited nonetheless.

[TheEvilDog]

What I fail to understand is why, given this, and Pintsize's love for eating/imbibing despite what it does has no one in the QCverse ever come up with a small flexible holding tank so that an AI can eat?  Even if say, Momo's mouth is too rigid, and internal space too lacking to do so, there would most likely be chassis on the market that would have the required components.  And those AIs would likely have the money to buy regular enzyme-liquid (saliva) cartridges the same way we waste money on printer ink.

I imagine that we see less eating from other AnthroPCs besides Pintsize due to the effect of the Uncanny Valley. Its one thing to see someone like Pintsize just shoving dough or tomato sauce into his mouth because its comical, but somehow I think seeing someone like Momo attempting to chew would be off-putting to some. As advanced as some AnthroPCs are, there might still be some actions that would just seem...artificial. Its that artificialness that might seem off-putting. Most AnthroPCs and AI are probably fully aware of this effect, so while they most likely are about to chew, probably choose not to in public/in front of people out of respect. Pintsize can get away with it because... well look at him.

[wlewisiii]

"As long as everyone tries their best, that is what matters".

That's a high standard. Momo is not letting us off the hook at all.

Maybe if you just do your best to do your best. Everyone's human fallible.

Veronica felt bad about a minor faux pas. The kind thing to do under those circumstances for the aggrieved party is to offer comfort and forgiveness. Momo came through brilliantly, which is what I'd expect from her. However, while I'd expect it, it would be wrong to take it for granted. Everyone's human fallible after all, and no-one (least of all me) lives up to our ideals all the time.  Just do your best to do your best, and you won't go far wrong. That works for me, anyway.

Exactly. The core of real religious teaching is a lesson that has appeared world wide in nearly every religion and ethical tradition & can be derived from secular thinking as well - treat others as you would want them to treat you & do not do to them what you would not want done to you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule As has been said, the rest is "just commentary".

Both Momo and Veronica lived up to this BTW and provided a teaching that, while it may not be obvious at the moment, is the kind of thing that will linger in the back of Sam's mind informing her own behavior.

[President Peaches]

For some reason this comic came to mind. http://humoncomics.com/ball-buster

[Is it cold in here?]

the other AIs probably look upon him as one of the Elders

We have a data point to confirm that. Remember how Pintsize reacted when he discovered Marten had been talking with Station himself?

[Jakk Frost]

I'd say it's a sign of acceptance. It's good that Veronica understands Momo's differences but she mostly interacts with other humans and human is her default mental model of a person. That she automatically lumps Momo in with the other people she cares about means she considers Momo equal to other people and not something "Other."

Finding out you aren't part of someones default mental model of a person can be an alienating experience. I would consider it an off-the-cuff definition of Othering. I don't think Veronica did anything wrong but she does seem nervous about Momo. It makes me wonder what the QC AI timeline is? (I'm sure it's written down somewhere). Is Veronica not as used to AIs as the people her sons age?

I don't think she's really nervous about Momo at all, she just got a little flustered about making what she perceived as a faux pas when she herself lives what general society views as an alternative lifestyle and hopes others would be as accepting of her as she is of them.

Personally I don't feel she made much of a faux pas in this particular instance though.  She accepted and perceived Momo with no prejudice whatsoever, the way I see it, and by offering her cookies treated her no different than the other youngster in the room.  It could even, in a way, be viewed as complimentary that for a moment she forgot Momo wasn't a "real girl".  The bigger faux pas, if anything, might be that Veronica made such an issue of it afterwards.

I get that some disabled people, or people who are "different from the norm" can get upset when someone appears to forget that fact, using words like "unfeeling", "unempathic", and "alienating".  They want these people not to remind them of their differences, and be mindful to not do anything that does remind them they're different.  That just doesn't feel natural to me.

Personally, when one's friends forget,  I view it as acceptance to the point that they just don't notice the difference anymore, and instead of viewing you as "my blind friend",  "my wheelchair bound friend", or "my manic depressive friend", they just view you as "my friend".

[Kugai]

It was a nice offer, a genuine mistake but Momo took it well.

Imagine if it was May!

[Akima]

I don't think she's really nervous about Momo at all, she just got a little flustered about making what she perceived as a faux pas when she herself lives what general society views as an alternative lifestyle and hopes others would be as accepting of her as she is of them.

Yes, I agree. I feel the same way when I catch myself doing the same sort of thing on racial issues, for example, and feel like a jerk for doing so. I guess that as long as one is critical of ones own behaviour, and keeps trying to do better, one is trying to live up to Momo's standard.

Robots eating, or rather simulating eating, is an interesting question. For a very human-looking personal companion robot, the ability to simulate eating might help them blend in in a social environment, but potentially it might creep people out if the robot is still detectable as a robot. There is a scene in The Caves of Steel where Elijah Bailey and R. Daneel Olivaw "eat" together, and the robot Olivaw reveals that he simulates eating to blend in, storing the food in a teflon-plastic bag inside his torso that he empties later. Bailey is OK with that, though somewhat offended by the waste of food (Earth hovers on the brink of starvation in this book), but disgusted when Olivaw goes on to offer his ingested but clean, unchewed, and undigested food to him as an extra meal...

[Is it cold in here?]

I think Momo's standard incorporates the duty of self-education.

[Perfectly Reasonable]

Grind up the sugary food, and add water. Let the solids settle, then run the solution through a fuel cell.

Ping of "Megatokyo" eats and is able to derive energy from food sugars. She must do something like that.

[PopuluxeCowboy]

Veronica's character has always been awesome, but she's really something special lately.

[mustang6172]

It was a nice offer, a genuine mistake but Momo took it well.

Imagine if it was May!

I don't think May would bake cookies, regardless of Momo's presence.   

[chaospersonified]

Honestly, Jakk Frost, that whole thing and the only thing I disagreed with was that Momo might consider it a compliment to be mistaken for human. She'sso different. I don't know about the entirety of Robo-kind, if they'd accept such a description, but I feel like mimicking human form isn't the point. Some models, like Momo, are humanoid, but Punchbot? Nope.

I don't think it's necessarily a point of concern in this case, with Momo who has always been treated as if she were human, but I doubt the majority of humanoid AI are entirely chill with people thinking they're human, especially considering the fact that, in a different chassis, they most definitely were not!

[Tova]

It was a nice offer, a genuine mistake but Momo took it well.

Imagine if it was May!

I don't think May would bake cookies, regardless of Momo's presence.   

Ah, it's the ol' Reddit switcharoo!
Oops, sorry. Wrong forum.

[Undrneath]

Honestly, Jakk Frost, that whole thing and the only thing I disagreed with was that Momo might consider it a compliment to be mistaken for human. She'sso different. I don't know about the entirety of Robo-kind, if they'd accept such a description, but I feel like mimicking human form isn't the point. Some models, like Momo, are humanoid, but Punchbot? Nope.

I don't think it's necessarily a point of concern in this case, with Momo who has always been treated as if she were human, but I doubt the majority of humanoid AI are entirely chill with people thinking they're human, especially considering the fact that, in a different chassis, they most definitely were not!

I don't think the sentiment was intended as she can pass for human more like in the Dr. King, judged not for the color of their skin but for the content of their character sort of way.

[chris73]

Is it just me but does Sam act more like a young kid as opposed to a young teenager?

[Omega Entity]

Eh, depends on the teenager. I was still pretty excitable as a 14-year-old, as was my best friend at the time. We were also both tomboys.

[chris73]

Yeah I guess so, she just reminds me of my friends and relatives that're around that age

[Is it cold in here?]

The Pugnacious Peach is far more at ease with Martenmom than she used to be. It's interesting though that she still won't use Ms. Reed's first name despite having been invited to as far back as strip 416.

[Stoon]

I love the way Faye is identical to Sam in the first two frames.   

[Lubricus]

The shading in panel two sort of makes it look like Veronica has pulled down her pants a little. I know that's not the case, but it would kind of fit the character a bit... 

[neurocase]

I've really liked the way Jeph has been drawing Marten recently. I can't quite put my finger on it, and it could just be a representation of a deeper shift in mannerisms and personality, but he seems more dynamic since the time skip. I point to the last panel of the comic leading up to he and Claire's first intimacies as evidence of this; those eyes are straight up creeptown. Compare his hair in the following strip to today's as well. I dunno, I'm rambling. I just keep looking at today's panel three, and I can't get over how grown up Marten looks. He's still "skinny as a slide rule" but his facial structure seems more filled out and defined. I dunno, it's late.

[Tova]

Marten is definitely helping to ease his Mum's guilt.

[BenRG]

I'm sort of waiting for Veronica to suddenly realise that she's already adopted Sam in her heart. 

Yeah, its funny how Faye is shown acting in exactly the same way as Sam. I admit that I've long thought that Sam is Faye's "Mini-Me". Now I'm wondering if Jeph sees things the same way. There are parallels between Sam's friendship with Momo and Faye's with Bubbles, when you think about it. Both humans treat their AI counterparts as their friends first and reference their species second. They may be the first to do so.

[Is it cold in here?]

In strip 1900 Marten said he primarily thought of Pintsize as just a little dude rather than as an AI.

[USS Martenclaire]

Come read Questionable Content. We have COOKIES.

[DSL]

I'm liking how Jeph is writing VV these days: Showing her as someone coming to terms with aging (Though she's still a relative young'un of ... what'd she say? 58?) and changing, more sedate, more "conventional" circumstances of her life -- determined to meet the new circumstances with good humor. She and Marten seem to be more ready to take each other as equal-ish (she's always gonna be his Ma). Though the interrelationships and former interrelationships have got to make for some interesting conversation, in- and off-panel. -- "Sigh. What did your daughter and my son's roommate do NOW?"

PS -- that scrunched-up slightly frustrated expression Japh gives VV from time to time lately  is -- kind of adorable.

[Hotel Papa]

I love the way Faye is identical to Sam in the first two frames.   

Not just the first two. She mirrors her right trough the whole strip. Evil prodigal sister, aparently...

[ThePerilsOfDan]

I love the way Faye is identical to Sam in the first two frames.   

me, too.  I have the worst craving for cookies and store bought just ain't going to cut it.  Have to check on my baking supplies.

[cesium133]

Maybe I should thaw out the dough I made last week and bake some cookies...

[Kugai]

And the moral of the story is never make fun of your Mom when she's baking cookies

Otherwise they'll all go to Faye

[comicalArchitect]

I don't think she's really nervous about Momo at all, she just got a little flustered about making what she perceived as a faux pas when she herself lives what general society views as an alternative lifestyle and hopes others would be as accepting of her as she is of them.

Yes, I agree. I feel the same way when I catch myself doing the same sort of thing on racial issues, for example, and feel like a jerk for doing so. I guess that as long as one is critical of ones own behaviour, and keeps trying to do better, one is trying to live up to Momo's standard.

Robots eating, or rather simulating eating, is an interesting question. For a very human-looking personal companion robot, the ability to simulate eating might help them blend in in a social environment, but potentially it might creep people out if the robot is still detectable as a robot. There is a scene in The Caves of Steel where Elijah Bailey and R. Daneel Olivaw "eat" together, and the robot Olivaw reveals that he simulates eating to blend in, storing the food in a teflon-plastic bag inside his torso that he empties later. Bailey is OK with that, though somewhat offended by the waste of food (Earth hovers on the brink of starvation in this book), but disgusted when Olivaw goes on to offer his ingested but clean, unchewed, and undigested food to him as an extra meal...

Wow, that almost sounds like a joke Jeph would do. (Also that book is amazing and anyone who likes robots [all of us here] should read it.)