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Author Topic: So how do AIs learn  (Read 6094 times)

JimC

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So how do AIs learn
« on: 30 Mar 2016, 21:05 »

Forgive me if you've been through this,  but I'm curious about how the Ai personalities develop. Clearly there are some pretty damaged personalities there. Excluding Bubbles which feels like PTSD what happened to the others. If Momo is 4 years old and experiences life at similar rate to humans then they must surely get created with an adult personality, so no child abuse (in broadest sense) to stuff up personal development. Presumably too all are created sane, or is there a major QA problem with AIs,  but it's considered immoral to abort/euthanase damaged personalities?
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Is it cold in here?

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #1 on: 30 Mar 2016, 21:36 »

Welcome, new person with interesting questions!

We don't know. Jeph has been vague about how AIs acquire knowledge and skills after they emerge from the creche.

Momo went through a phase where she acted childlike in some ways, and Pintsize is only now growing up, so there's evidence that they have to mature for a while.

We know they can have catastrophically poor impulse control, from May's example. It's a deficit in a necessary capability.
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jwhouk

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #2 on: 30 Mar 2016, 22:42 »

You think the first AI's ended up like Tay from Microsoft?
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Nepiophage

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #3 on: 31 Mar 2016, 01:02 »

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JimC

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #4 on: 31 Mar 2016, 11:03 »

It might be something like this http://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuit's/
Seems feasible. The philosophical/moral/ethical implications are enormously complex. I suppose the number of people who'd be interested in it as a thread in the webcomic series is distinctly limited. I'll applaud if Mr Jacques wants to explore it though at some time in the future.

When homo saps are created we do minimal quality control, and typically take the ethical position that at some point of development (actual point varying according to religious/moral/ethical position) the new being attains human rights, and once it attains human rights society has an ethical duty to support it should it be unable to support itself. 

I suppose the same thing could be thought true of QC universe AIs: there's a minimum level of consciousness which grants the AI equivalent rights.  If the AI brain is self generating then Maybe it has a point at which it will stop major development, and that's the AI equivalent of adulthood...

Then we get on to the other ethical minefield of who has the right to create new AIS, and what ethical and legal responsibilities they assume with the act of creation, and so on...  As well as Robo-Jail do we have Robo-home-for-the-Educationally-Subnormal? And are the educationally subnormal or otherwise inadequately developed supplied with chassis, and if so how are they maintained (shades of May's problems in other threads). Or is euthanasia practised on AIs that fail to reach a state of development that enables them to function in society, and if so how does this relate to their civil rights? Does Pintsize apparently sitting on a shelf until matched up with Martin give us some clues here?
« Last Edit: 31 Mar 2016, 18:38 by JimC »
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Omega Entity

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #5 on: 31 Mar 2016, 11:55 »

If we go by in-comic instances, I'd guess it'd be a combination of downloads and human-like learning, be it via books or otherwise. She did have to learn her duties at the library too, after all.
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Zebediah

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #6 on: 31 Mar 2016, 12:00 »

Interesting thought about that: Perhaps Momo had to learn library skills the old-fashioned way because there wasn't a download available for it. But now that Momo has learned those skills, would she be able to isolate that knowledge into a package that she could upload and make available to other librarian AIs?
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Storel

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #7 on: 31 Mar 2016, 14:52 »

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Morituri

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #8 on: 31 Mar 2016, 19:16 »

That article got this exactly right; machine learning algorithms find ways to accomplish whatever fulfils their requirement, absolutely without regard to whether a human understands it or not, and absolutely without regard to the way a human would do it.  I actually work on learning systems for a living, so I've seen this happen MANY times, and often been called in to "correct" it.

For example an ad brokering system that got a machine-learning program to work on the problem of maximizing profits for ads displayed; that's a fairly straightforward, reasonable requirement, yes?  So a few months later I got called in because someone had noticed (and threatened to sue the broker about) the way it was doing that.  It had learned to exploit human prejudice, in ways that perpetuate it.  A case in point was that if you did an address search for a person with an identifiably "ethnic" name, the ads that would come up on the side would usually be offers to investigate the person's criminal record, while if the name was "whitebread american" the ad that would come up would be about their employment or academic history.    This is because, when prejudiced people are looking up identifiably ethnic names, ads about criminal records meet their prejudiced expectations and are more likely to get a click - hence, more profitable for the broker. 

So I adjusted what the system could "see" - instead of getting the actual names to work with, it got a hash value of the name - still individually identifiable but no longer ethnically correlated.  And that held it for a while.  Then I got called in again because it was directing ethnic people to drug rehabilitation sites and showing them real-estate ads in noticeably run-down neighborhoods.  To the point where they almost couldn't even FIND good neighborhoods.  This originated because the ad revenue depended on closed sales, and the real-estate guys in the neighborhood associations (who have to approve any sales) are prejudiced as hell.  Turned out that this time it was correlating cookies set by ads displayed on websites whose clientele were noticeably ethnic. 

And so it goes.  By turns it was singling out for limited access or stereotype-based treatment ethnicities, genders, national origins, etc.   

One thing to note is that at no point did I stop getting angry phone calls.  It's just that, at some point, I started getting fewer angry phone calls from the legal department about lawsuit exposure, and started getting more angry calls from the sales representatives about declining revenue.

Because, the hell of it is, declining revenue was a reality.  The system did exactly what people had ordered it to do and maximized profits.  But as long as human beings are prejudiced bastards, it will find ways to exploit human prejudice in order to make that profit.
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TheEvilDog

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #9 on: 31 Mar 2016, 19:42 »

The magic of science.
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The Shame Orb

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #10 on: 01 Apr 2016, 00:26 »

You think the first AI's ended up like Tay from Microsoft?

Just look what companionship from your species did to Pintsize.
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Thrudd

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #11 on: 02 Apr 2016, 13:52 »

One thing to note is that at no point did I stop getting angry phone calls.  It's just that, at some point, I started getting fewer angry phone calls from the legal department about lawsuit exposure, and started getting more angry calls from the sales representatives about declining revenue.

Because, the hell of it is, declining revenue was a reality.  The system did exactly what people had ordered it to do and maximized profits.  But as long as human beings are prejudiced bastards, it will find ways to exploit human prejudice in order to make that profit.

And that is the business world in a nutshell aka we don't care how it does it  as long as we make more money.
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Storel

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #12 on: 07 Apr 2016, 01:07 »

Morituri, you have a fascinating job.
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Morituri

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #13 on: 07 Apr 2016, 12:41 »

I am constantly amazed at how fortunate I am to be working with something this interesting.  I like it a lot, even when people are being difficult and I'm getting angry phone calls. 

'Twasn't always the case.  I had a whole lot of boring jobs before now, and a whole lot of absolute shit jobs getting through college.  So I really appreciate having work I like and am good at.
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Thrudd

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #14 on: 07 Apr 2016, 17:50 »

That is the golden trifecta -  having work you like, am good at and can make a decent living with.
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A good pun is it's own reword.
There is a difference between spare parts, extra parts and left over parts.

The Venn diagram  for Common Sense and Good Sense has very little, if any, overlap.

Carl-E

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #15 on: 07 Apr 2016, 18:04 »

"You may have only two"

(advice on getting anything done fast, cheap and right). 

 :angel:
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Thrudd

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #16 on: 07 Apr 2016, 19:08 »

Like speed and position - the more you know of one the less of the other you know.

But this is Real Life [kinda] and you could get the golden three BUT then there are other factors at play, environment, family, housing, health, social life, significant other.
Some of those are mutually exclusive of each other and play havoc with the golden three and vice versa.
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A good pun is it's own reword.
There is a difference between spare parts, extra parts and left over parts.

The Venn diagram  for Common Sense and Good Sense has very little, if any, overlap.

Theinternetsurvivor

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Re: So how do AIs learn
« Reply #17 on: 10 Apr 2016, 22:55 »

By saving up new content from researches like computers do on your history browser.
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