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The secret to the unique taste of CoD's coffee is very possibly spider droppings and dead bugs

Momo actually considers May her friend

Faye likes to imagine Bubbles in different get-ups

No-one knows what Marten, Hannelore and Faye's landlord looks like; it could be JUICY!

Steve may be the most normal character in the strip

Marigold discusses her sex life with Hannelore in quite disturbing detail

Claire has the sort of mind that Pintsize fears

Sven and Hannelore may be the most healthy and normal friendships that the other has ever had

[Tova]

Exasperating comment from Corpse Witch, but hardly surprising.

Also, I forgot to post my reaction to the newspost.

[Linkin Park begins to blare from the back room]

YOU ONLY HAVE A LIMITED TIME TO ORDER MY NEW SHIRT

How does that one go?

[Undrneath]

Main advantages humans have over rovers: intelligence and judgment.  You can "program" a human with a lot more tasks at once than a rover, because if a human runs into an unforeseen development, they have training and judgment to decide how to proceed, rather than having to call home, wait while the scientists on Earth figure out what to do based on limited data, and receive new instructions.

Example: one of the Venus landers was supposed to extend a probe to test the compressability of the Venusian surface.  Due to bad luck, it ended up measuring the compressability of the lens cap of its camera.  For a human, this is a five-second fix - kick the lens cap out of the way or move the probe five centimeters thataway.  For the lander, this was unsolvable.

At the recent inaugural Silicon Valley Comic Con Adam Savage held a panel with Andy Weir and a representative from NASA. That NASA rep said that it would be more cost effective to design probes that can do what humans could than to actually send humans to Mars.

[danuis]

Wait, wouldn't Corpse Witch think, however, that something MAJOR happened with Bubbles and Faye? When it's just one guy? Corpse Witch may be over-rejoicing at the moment, as Bubbles now has a lot of information about good humans in contrast to an experience with a bad one. I think Corpse Witch is about to get a come uppance.

[Mr. Doctor]

If Faye gets any splash damage from this I'm sure she won't take any of it. I'm waiting for that dialogue.

Also... Yeah boss is an asshole, what's new.

[ZoeB]

Anger is an energy. The trick is to transmute it to compassion before it poisons you.

[Mr. Doctor]

I'd say anger is a gift.

[Wildroses]

Oh please, please assume that the problem was Faye or the coffee shop and not some random jerks on the street Corpse Witch. Give Bubbles another reason to go hmmmm.

If Corpse Witch does assume it was Faye and talks to her first, the results could be interesting.

[BenRG]

It does not surprise me in the slightest that Punch-bot likes being tossed around as much as he likes punching things. That's an AI with issues. Of course, I'm starting to think that this is the case for all of Corpse Witch's employees!

[Akima]

Punchbot seems to have cleaned off Faye's dick-drawings. I also bet he'd enjoy sparring with Bubbles MMA-style, but I'm visualising her doing tai-chi forms instead.

But Linkin Park? I can't see it. Evanescence maybe?

[Mr_Rose]

Main advantages humans have over rovers: intelligence and judgment.  You can "program" a human with a lot more tasks at once than a rover, because if a human runs into an unforeseen development, they have training and judgment to decide how to proceed, rather than having to call home, wait while the scientists on Earth figure out what to do based on limited data, and receive new instructions.

Example: one of the Venus landers was supposed to extend a probe to test the compressability of the Venusian surface.  Due to bad luck, it ended up measuring the compressability of the lens cap of its camera.  For a human, this is a five-second fix - kick the lens cap out of the way or move the probe five centimeters thataway.  For the lander, this was unsolvable.

At the recent inaugural Silicon Valley Comic Con Adam Savage held a panel with Andy Weir and a representative from NASA. That NASA rep said that it would be more cost effective to design probes that can do what humans could than to actually send humans to Mars.

Really? Was this NASA rep an engineer or an administrator, because I'd like to meet the engineer who thinks they can legitimately build a self-motivating intuitive sapient AI for less than the budget allocation for crew training and life support on the "journey to Mars" roadmap. I'll accept the construction of a hardened humanoid robotic shell as given, due to the progress Boston Dynamics and friends have made lately.
Because that's the difference. The problem has never been the tools or the sensors, it has been applying judgement to their placement for best effect, which is extremely difficult to do by remote from a planet light-minutes distant.

[Undrneath]

I'm not sure of his position, though I believe he was speaking about physical capabilities specifically. However I'm sure they don't need to have full autonomy to be feasibly cost effective.

[J]

once again, i must question the fact that bubbles is able to walk around with that sort of hardware.

[danuis]

I'm not sure of his position, though I believe he was speaking about physical capabilities specifically. However I'm sure they don't need to have full autonomy to be feasibly cost effective.

Sure, true, true. I've seen the numbers as well. Literal rocket science, as a hobby, of course. They're some strong, hard heavy numbers, and you know what I say? Well, we know the numbers, now let's make something that can satisfy those numbers, cause those numbers are never going away. Har har.

[swapna]

That is... interesting. Bubbles displayed her anger issues before, to the point of nearly hurting Faye. It also explains why the military doesn't use combat AIs any more (I don't think it was because of protests.  Since when do they stop doing things because people don't like it?)
Bubbles is dangerous, and doesn't respond well to pressure; she also wouldn't go for therapy, I think. This is bad for a human, but in somebody who's already a walking weapon it might be more than they could risk.

Also, CW is a horrible peson, but she also is fearless. Provoking Bubbles some more could lead to her being broken in two and she just doesn't care.

[jheartney]

Main advantages humans have over rovers: intelligence and judgment.  You can "program" a human with a lot more tasks at once than a rover, because if a human runs into an unforeseen development, they have training and judgment to decide how to proceed, rather than having to call home, wait while the scientists on Earth figure out what to do based on limited data, and receive new instructions.

Example: one of the Venus landers was supposed to extend a probe to test the compressability of the Venusian surface.  Due to bad luck, it ended up measuring the compressability of the lens cap of its camera.  For a human, this is a five-second fix - kick the lens cap out of the way or move the probe five centimeters thataway.  For the lander, this was unsolvable.

The Venus landers are a great example of why you have to use probes rather than manned missions. There's absolutely no way, using current tech, that you could get a human down to the hellish surface of Venus, keep them alive there for any length of time, and get them back off the planet and out of its gravity well. Even if the example were the far more hospitable Mars, you could send a second, third and fourth probe, and keep them all going for years, for a fraction of what it would cost to send a human. It's why we haven't had a manned exploration mission outside near Earth orbit since Apollo, and why even in orbit the heavy lifting is done by unmanned devices.

The U.S. currently has no domestic manned space launch capability. The shuttle was hideously expensive, highly problematic (two disastrous fatal missions), and in the end had no important mission other than building the International Space Station. Of course the ISS' most important reason for being was to give the shuttle something to do. It was all circular and kind of dumb (though it made a lot of money for contractors spread over a large collection of congressional districts, the real reason the program kept going).

The question isn't whether or not you'd get some decent science out of a manned Mars mission. It's whether you couldn't get a lot more science out of the same budget applied to an unmanned approach.

[jheartney]

Really? Was this NASA rep an engineer or an administrator, because I'd like to meet the engineer who thinks they can legitimately build a self-motivating intuitive sapient AI for less than the budget allocation for crew training and life support on the "journey to Mars" roadmap. I'll accept the construction of a hardened humanoid robotic shell as given, due to the progress Boston Dynamics and friends have made lately.
Because that's the difference. The problem has never been the tools or the sensors, it has been applying judgement to their placement for best effect, which is extremely difficult to do by remote from a planet light-minutes distant.

The effort to build a general purpose AI is going on regardless of anything happening in space. If it's successful, it'll be game over for nearly all human space exploration. But even without it, we've had a golden age of exploration of the solar system using non-AI tech.

Bringing the discussion back to QC, the AI's we've seen in-comic would be perfectly capable of exploratory trips to most destinations in the solar system, and could do anything human astronauts could do, at far less cost. Jeph's never talked about it, but in any world with that sort of AI, huge numbers of jobs all through the economy would be no-go zones for humans.

[Radium_Coyote]

A manned mission to Mars could, potentially, accomplish more in one day than all the unmanned missions to date.  It's just a question of versatility.  A human can think up new things on the fly, and use existing resources in ways you wouldn't expect.  This is the very history of both the American and Russki space programs.

A robot can only do what it was intended to do, and what it may be feasible to repurpose it to do.  Humans are, to date, a lot more versatile.

[JimC]

but in any world with that sort of AI, huge numbers of jobs all through the economy would be no-go zones for humans.

It adds strength to our (comic) creator's decision to give AIs civil rights. Given the current tendency to a self perpetuating oligarchy in the form of an executive class which is increasingly multiplying its own wealth at the expense of the rest of the population then a huge population of AIs who were effectively slaves would destroy the economic system and surely lead to riots on the streets. That wouldn't be the story he wants to tell, so with the AIs having civil rights they are presumably no more (or less) exploitable by the executive class than the human population.  The question then revolves around population control: how do AIs reproduce and what restrictions are there on creating AIs? Otherwise we get a population of a spartiate executive class, the rest of us as mothakes, and the AIs as helots.

But I'd better stop here, this could get very political, very controversial and a very long way from QC very fast.  As it is we have a comic society much like ours, but with, as Niven would say, "minds that think as well as we do but differently".  And that's a fun thing to explore in itself.

[jheartney]

but in any world with that sort of AI, huge numbers of jobs all through the economy would be no-go zones for humans.

It adds strength to our (comic) creator's decision to give AIs civil rights. Given the current tendency to a self perpetuating oligarchy in the form of an executive class which is increasingly multiplying its own wealth at the expense of the rest of the population then a huge population of AIs who were effectively slaves would destroy the economic system and surely lead to riots on the streets. That wouldn't be the story he wants to tell, so with the AIs having civil rights they are presumably no more (or less) exploitable by the executive class than the human population.  The question then revolves around population control: how do AIs reproduce and what restrictions are there on creating AIs? Otherwise we get a population of a spartiate executive class, the rest of us as mothakes, and the AIs as helots.

But I'd better stop here, this could get very political, very controversial and a very long way from QC very fast.  As it is we have a comic society much like ours, but with, as Niven would say, "minds that think as well as we do but differently".  And that's a fun thing to explore in itself.

I believe Jeph's inspiration for at least part of the way he treats AI's is Iain Banks' Culture stories, which assumed that once AI's of sufficient power were developed, then most of humanity would no longer have to work for a living. This is the optimistic view of how artificial intelligence could be integrated into human societies. A less optimistic view is that we get a ruthless oligarchy with most of humanity as useless surplus. Jeph's choice is to ignore most of the implications of a post-singularity AI society, which makes for a more relatable comic but probably isn't very realistic.

[osaka]

how do AIs reproduce

Well, when two AIs love each other very much they send a letter to the magical robo-stork Hanners and order a babby AI that they'd recieve in 8 to 10 months, after the proper design and construction have been finished in Paris the Station. Sometimes it takes longer due to permits and local legislations, and also international postage for people outside the US.

Pls don't hate me

[Is it cold in here?]

Global Moderator Comment

It's fun and stimulating when new topics come up, so this is not a complaint! There's a thread already for space program discussions, which would benefit from copies of many of the recent posts here.

[Radium_Coyote]

Thing is, as has already been alluded to very often, Corpse Witch has her reasons.  She's got a history.  She's not someone you can just cast aside in this story.

In this world, there's no bad guys.  Just better and worse guys.

[hedgie]

I'm not quite so sure about that.  Hannermom is probably the real reason there have been so many 007s over the years.

[sitnspin]

She does have a shark tank, after all, that Hanners had to talk her out of dropping an employee into.

[Neko_Ali]

What history? We know hardly anything about Corpse Witch. She runs an illegal robot fighting arena and manipulates her employees to keep them under control. And she's an AI. That's exactly all we know about her. Maybe she has some secret history and reason to be anti-human, or really believes that only one AI can understand and look out for another. Or maybe she's a lying, manipulative greedy career criminal. We don't know until more is revealed about her.

[themacnut]

but in any world with that sort of AI, huge numbers of jobs all through the economy would be no-go zones for humans.

It adds strength to our (comic) creator's decision to give AIs civil rights. Given the current tendency to a self perpetuating oligarchy in the form of an executive class which is increasingly multiplying its own wealth at the expense of the rest of the population then a huge population of AIs who were effectively slaves would destroy the economic system and surely lead to riots on the streets.

Who says there'd be riots? Policing could be one of the many jobs taken over by AI, purpose-built for the job even, and they'd probably be very good at their assigned task. They wouldn't get bored or tired, and would probably be in combat bodies similar to Bubbles' so they'd be difficult to damage. Plus, to increase their efficiency they'd have cameras put up at every intersection, maybe even every corner, to watch out for impending trouble. Meaning, any gathering of humans that even looks like it might turn violent would be pounced on by squads of police AI, the perpetrators whisked away to jail before they knew what hit them. Potential troublemakers would be tracked online via their social media posts, and watched closely. Rioting, even peaceful civil disobedience, would be impossible to pull off under those circumstances. So would many other kinds of street crime for that matter - AI would own the streets.

But in such a world many low-level jobs like barista and "office bitch" would be taken by AI, so several of our characters (Marten and Faye foremost among them) would have a great deal of trouble finding and keeping a job. Seeing as that's not happening in the QC verse, I can think of a few reasons why;

- AI civil rights mean they have to be paid a living wage equivalent to a human, so there's no special advantage in hiring them over a human

- there are few AI around. After all, most QC human characters don't have an AI companion, and we've only seen a few AI working actual jobs

- AI are generally picky about what jobs they take, yet another reason you see few of them gainfully employed (May's a notable exception, but she's on parole so has to take any job she can get to stay out of Robot Jail)

[Kugai]

Temper temper

And Corpse Witch is a bitch.

[themacnut]

Far as Corpse Witch's agenda goes, I find myself comparing her to Megatron in the Transformers 'verses created by IDW, Dreamwave and even Prime, where he used underground gladitoral arenas to recruit followers, which he then led in a violent revolution to overthrow those in charge. Of course in each of these 'verses Megatron was also a combatant who won respect partly via his combat skill, unlike Corpse Witch. It may simply be that CW doesn't want Bubbles leaving the little enclave she's created.

[hedgie]

It's a bit too soon to tell, really.  So far Corpse Witch seems a bit shittier than the main cast, but she has had few appearances in the strip.  She could just think that biologics and synthetics are better off sticking with "their own",  and the latter for their own safety and well-being.  It is also possible that she is using the fight ring and manipulation to train soldiers for a robot uprising and wants to KILL ALL HUMANS.  Just being a manipulative person is another thing that comes to mind.  A few of these are ripe for gleefully anticipating someone dropping a house on her and a munchkin sing-along, but Jeph could go in many directions that are not house-dropping worthy.

[Is it cold in here?]

Temper temper

And Corpse Witch is a bitch.

Global Moderator Comment

No argument, but as a reminder to everyone, the mod team has heard from multiple level-headed women who feel less welcome here when people fire off gender-related insults such as "cunt" and "bitch". Since we mean to be inclusive ...

[Zebediah]

Hard to believe I'm actually defending Corpse Witch, since I really don't like her, but: I'd like to point out that CW said "Told you so" after Bubbles had left the room and not to her face, so (presumably) Bubbles couldn't hear her. So it appears that CW actually believes what she is saying.

Of course, that doesn't mean that she isn't trying to manipulate Bubbles - she absolutely is. But she appears to be doing so based on the truth as she sees it.

[Tova]

I'd agree with this. I wouldn't be surprised if CW has been burned pretty badly in her past, and is now utterly cynical (see also, Lotso).

[blt]

A lot of what makes CW hateable is how she's framed. Other characters in QC have done some pretty questionable/unkind/violent things but they're seen as just a quirk of the character and everyone around them accepts or it laughs it off and the attention isn't drawn to it.

CW is obviously the bad guy because of how the comic shows her to us, but I hope it goes into a bit more of why she's like this, even if it doesn't get into the "shades of grey" territory.

[neurocase]

Comiiiic.

Gotta love Faye in this one, but CW's reaction is kind of...undecipherable.

[Penquin47]

Hmm.

Faye is a good friend.  I'm worried that she might not have a job much longer though.

[mustang6172]

Am I the only person that thinks it's weird that Faye wears a hoodie under a coat?

[Method of Madness]

I like to think that CW is reevaluating her views.

[chaospersonified]

I like to think that CW is reevaluating her views.

Doubt it. I think she's just re-evaluating Faye's employment. Whixh sounds like I think she's going to be fired, but I don't know. I see CorpseWitch trying to cause strife in the Faye-Bubbles (Baye?) bromance.

[Tova]

Hmm.

[sitnspin]

Am I the only person that thinks it's weird that Faye wears a hoodie under a coat?

I do it if it's cold enough. Plus he hoodie is sleeveless.

[Is it cold in here?]

Faye is brave. Unless she has forgotten having a hole exploded in a brick wall inches from her head.

[hedgie]

She knows Bubbles better now.  Also the slight thing where small chunks (at least what bits weren't atomised or embedded into brick) of Fayes head would need scraping off a certain robot's armour had Bubbles been trying to connect; she knows how squishy we meatbags are.

What would be pretty sad is if Faye enters the room and gets hit by a stray bit of debris, and that ends up triggering a PTSD attack in Bubs.

[Is it cold in here?]

Very random idea: Hannelore invites Bubbles to the space station to interact with a therapist better than any human.

Bubbles has never been to the support group, has she?

However the upcoming conversation goes it will be character development.

[Neko_Ali]

hmmmm

[Luzahn]

Aw yeah, way to go Faye.

Friendship: 1
CORPSE WITCH: 0

[Perfectly Reasonable]

  The question then revolves around population control: how do AIs reproduce and what restrictions are there on creating AIs?

My headcanon is that creating AIs is EXTREMELY expensive. And there seems to be a lot of randomness involved. So if you get an unsuitable one, you don't delete it. (Besides, Gary wouldn't like it.) So you put it aside and try to find another use for it. (Pintsize, Gordon, Charlotte, May...)
Winslow... Was obviously intended for a mass-produced consumer product. But it didn't work out. So Marigold ended up with him somehow.

[Tova]

Bubbles' metaphorical/emotional armour will well and truly be back on when Faye walks into the room.

I'm not really concerned for her physical safety, but she might be in for a difficult conversation.

[mustang6172]

Aw yeah, way to go Faye.

Friendship: 1
CORPSE WITCH: 0

Unless Bubbles finally murders Faye.

[hedgie]

  The question then revolves around population control: how do AIs reproduce and what restrictions are there on creating AIs?

My headcanon is that creating AIs is EXTREMELY expensive. And there seems to be a lot of randomness involved. So if you get an unsuitable one, you don't delete it. (Besides, Gary wouldn't like it.) So you put it aside and try to find another use for it. (Pintsize, Gordon, Charlotte, May...)
Winslow... Was obviously intended for a mass-produced consumer product. But it didn't work out. So Marigold ended up with him somehow.

Winslow is with Hanners.  Marigold hangs with Momo.  But pedantry aside, I'm inclined to agree that it is, in computation time at least, it would be very resource-intensive.  IIRC, Jeph has stated that AI in the QC verse was an emergent phenomenon.  It might even be possible that humans cannot actually create AI, but merely the conditions under which they would most likely emerge. 

Once AIs came into existence, I'm pretty sure that they have some mechanism for reproduction amongst themselves in a manner like the CPU time it'd take to mine the last 100 bitcoins for each AI.  I would expect that each AI involved in making a baby would have to go through a protracted gestation.  For someone with Station's computational ability, he could probably stick junior in a couple of processor banks for a few weeks and check in periodically.  For the AIs in the main cast, they might not even be able to do it solo without effectively shutting down everything else.  Even if they paired up to have a little one, they might be complaining that elephants "have it too easy".

[Morituri]

I like to think that CW is reevaluating her views tactics.

FTFY.