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Faye

Bubbles

Corpse Witch

Marten

Space Ham

Pie

Nope

[hakko504]

What, no new  WCDT Yet? OK, here's one for you.

[BenRG]

Uh oh! Hey, Faye! Did you remember that the operation that you work for is illegal (at least technically)? Oh, her new acquaintance seems nice but I'll bet that the choice of 'testify or five years' will come up eventually.

Now, I'm pretty sure that the local cops in Northampton are paid well by Corpse Witch to look the other way (especially as it is arguably a victimless crime). However, something tells me that the Massachusetts State Police have a far less charitable view of her 'business', if only because of the rampant bribery and tax avoidance that I'm betting that's going on!

It kind of makes sense that you'd hire synthetics to police crime in the synthetic community. After all 'to catch a thief' and all that; they'd probably think and move at the right rate (and in the right way) to handle AI felons, something few if any humans could do.

Now... I suspect that Bubbles and Faye will shortly be out of a job. I'm wondering: Where this fact will take them?

[Tova]

Did you remember that the operation that you work for is illegal (at least technically)?

Completely slipped her mind. The "Oh, shit!" reaction was due to her suddenly remembering that she double parked on the way in.

[jheartney]

(Reply copied from previous week's thread)

If you've never seen this, it's well worth your time. A law professor tells you why you should NEVER EVER voluntarily talk to police without a lawyer present.

Faye should just keep walking. And if the officer arrests her, she should say NOTHING till she gets an attorney.

And this would be true even if she didn't work for an illegal enterprise.

[oddtail]

(Reply copied from previous week's thread)

If you've never seen this, it's well worth your time. A law professor tells you why you should NEVER EVER voluntarily talk to police without a lawyer present.

Faye should just keep walking. And if the officer arrests her, she should say NOTHING till she gets an attorney.

And this would be true even if she didn't work for an illegal enterprise.

Can't click the video you linked at work, but I'm pretty sure I know which one that is.

The "if you talk to the police, even if you want to help, you might be screwed" is completely insane and I would imagine actually counterproductive for the work of the police, seeing as well-informed people acting in their own best interest will make extra sure not to help. I'm sure that's just GREAT for getting the law-abiding citizens to cooperate... 

To anyone from Europe, does this sort of advice apply outside the US? It's always been my impression that at least in Poland, talking to police in good faith is much less perilous, and I would answer any questions by a policeman with no problem. But I don't know the intricacies of law very well, and I might just be hopelessly naive.

EDIT: changed "much perilous" to "much LESS perilous", because it changes the sentence's meaning completely and I somehow skipped the word the first time 'round. I'm an idiot.

[Is it cold in here?]

One ex-cop suggests rehearsing in front of a mirror a friendly and non-confrontational phrase like "I'd like to answer your questions, Officer, but my attorneys have always insisted they be present if I talk to law enforcement".

"You're not in trouble" is of course exactly what an investigator would say if trying to trap you into saying something incriminating.

EDIT: Answering oddtail, if you want to be a cooperative citizen you can do it through an attorney.

[oddtail]

EDIT: Answering oddtail, if you want to be a cooperative citizen you can do it through an attorney.

Which adds a layer of complication, wastes the policemen's time, and costs either public money, or the money out of the pocket of the person hiring an attorney...

[jheartney]

I'd imagine it works the same way in any western country, though not all of them may have the functional equivalent to the fifth amendment.

Faye's next words should be "I have no statement to make." Then, "Am I free to go?" If the officer has probable cause, Faye may be arrested. But there is no way she will help herself by making any statement of any kind to the officer, particularly in an informal setting.

Of course, that would make for a boring story, so I don't expect it to happen.

[Near Lurker]

The advice comes from two good things and one bad thing:

1. We take self-incrimination more seriously than most countries.
2. Hearsay is inadmissible in most circumstances.  (I think this one's true in most of the world.)
3. Our police are fucking lunatics.

In most of the world, you might have trouble relying on a fact that you didn't give to the police right off the bat, but here, that can't be used against you.  What's more, any such fact can't be used to help your case, since that would be hearsay.  So if you're innocent, it would be at best harmless to talk to police, but that's where (3) comes into play.  Remember, one in every hundred Americans are in prison right this second, and that's not counting those who have been released, and will soon be, if not back, illicitly employed in one way or another because they'll never have a "real job" again.  What's more, the "Reid technique" (basically, making you feel guiltier about letting the police down than committing the crime) is legal in the US, which has been shown to not only get false confessions, but convince people who could not possibly have committed a particular crime that they have.

The police will not help you, unless your goal is to have someone else arrested and/or shot.  Wait until you're talking to the DA.

[jheartney]

I don't know that U.S. police are uniquely bad; see the Amanda Knox case for horrifically bad policing (plus even more horrific prosecutorial misconduct) in western Europe.

[sitnspin]

I have had a few encounters with police, both as a suspect and as a victim. None of them have been positive. They've been unnecessarily adversarial every time, either by being hyper aggressive or incredibly manipulative. US cops, in my experience, are terrible, alternately zealously aggressive and criminally indifferent.

[TinPenguin]

If you're having to think about strategies for talking to the police as anything other than a witness or reference, you already fucked up.

[sitnspin]

Not true, TinPinguin, even talking to the police as a victim can get you into trouble. I've experienced myself and seen it happen to other people. You always need a strategy when talking to the cops.

[Near Lurker]

The only reason to talk to the American police is to get someone arrested.  "Witness or reference" is the wrong way of looking at it.  If you're not trying to get someone arrested, and you're not yourself one of their lackies (party planner or whatnot), shut the hell up.

[TinPenguin]

Well, re: the American police or Ugandan police or what, then yeah, you already fucked up by being born in a fucking lunatic country. It's not your fault.

[gopher]

Police have two priorities in their job. The first is to survive their shift, hence their trigger-happiness. Secondly to arrest some-one, hence their aggressive lying/manipulation. Never engage with the police without your lawyer, they want to blame some-one, anyone, and are quite happy to fit you up.

[Mr. Skawronska]

One of the most important parts of that video is when Professor Duane points out the Rules of Evidence:  Any statement you make INCRIMINATING you is EVIDENCE (admissible in court).  Any statement you make EXONERATING you is hearsay (not admissible).

And, as he says, that should be enough right there.  If it isn't, well, that's why so many people talk themselves into being arrested -- because what they BELIEVE about the police and the justice system just isn't so.

And you can go right on believing what isn't so until you're the one in handcuffs.  By then it will be too late.

[brasca]

Surprised I didn't see an endless string of Law & Order AI Unit jokes yet. 

While I think Corpse Witch is the most likely target I'm not entirely certain she's going to jail since she probably has lawyers and maybe even connections with the La Robo Nostra. 

[BenRG]

Prediction
This is going to be a long-term plot arc, I think. Nothing will happen in the immediate term except Detective Bot taking notes and saying "Hmm... Interesting" at the most innocuous things Faye says. However, long-term, there may be major and dramatic conseqeunces.

It wouldn't surprise me to learn Corpse Witch is doing a lot worse things than staging the fights. There is almost certainly unlicensed gambling. However, what if she's also supplying 'recreational' DLL files (the AI equivalent of drugs) or even extreme-humanform-chassis AIs to prostitution? The whole thing could go down in flames in a huge vice bust. Corpse Witch will probably end up doing hard time and there will likely be many repercussions amongst the cast (did one of the AI main cast report CW to the cops? It seems like something Momo would do or even Bubbles, due to her hatred of recreational violence and her "Hmmm..." moments).

I'm wondering if Faye, Bubbles, Punchbot and the others will find themselves out of a job and wondering what to do next. That's when May comes along to commiserate and Faye suddenly remembers her 'free robot clinic charity' idea.


[Edit]
Rereading this, I suddenly feel that Bubbles is the most likely candidate to have informed the police (probably anonymously), if she's decided that Corpse Witch is more malign than benign, based on her treatment of Faye. That may lead to some interesting tensions and conversations between the two of them.

[hedgie]

Police have two priorities in their job. The first is to survive their shift, hence their trigger-happiness. Secondly to arrest some-one, hence their aggressive lying/manipulation. Never engage with the police without your lawyer, they want to blame some-one, anyone, and are quite happy to fit you up.

In the US, maybe.  My local police department actually called in UK cops to teach de-escalation and alternatives to violence.  Then again, they need it.  I actually had to report a pig for harassment for performing my job duties for the city.

[heyjames4]

I forgot about corpse witch until I came in the thread. My first instinct was I hope it's Miss Bubbles framed for war crimes and not May's technical parole violations.

[JimC]

Never engage with the police without your lawyer, they want to blame some-one, anyone, and are quite happy to fit you up.

And of course the wider those attitudes are amongst the public, the worse the disengagement between police and public, and the descending spiral continues.

[BlueFatima]

Faye, Faye, Faye... The last thing you want to do around an investigator is act scared. Hoping this doesn't land her or Bubbles in jail, but I sense there will be a career change for both of them in the near future.

[Undrneath]

The unfortunate truth is innocent people have been convicted  because they said the truth in a way that could be twisted into evidence against them.

[Method of Madness]

Re: the poll, the pie is gonna do hard time. Approximately 3.14 years.

[oddtail]

One of the most important parts of that video is when Professor Duane points out the Rules of Evidence:  Any statement you make INCRIMINATING you is EVIDENCE (admissible in court).  Any statement you make EXONERATING you is hearsay (not admissible).

What's the reasoning behind this? I never understood that logic...

[Lubricus]

I'm sure the policewoman is aiming for Corpe Witch. Then again, I'm also sure CW will do her best to drag Bubbles and Faye with her, or even better, make them take any eventual fall.

[Penquin47]

One of the most important parts of that video is when Professor Duane points out the Rules of Evidence:  Any statement you make INCRIMINATING you is EVIDENCE (admissible in court).  Any statement you make EXONERATING you is hearsay (not admissible).

What's the reasoning behind this? I never understood that logic...

You have no ulterior motive to incriminate yourself, so if you say it, it must be true.
You have an ulterior motive to exonerate yourself, so if you say it, it requires corroboration from evidence/other witnesses.

Possible chance for the Return of Harriet, Sven's Lawyer?

[Lubricus]

Possible chance for the Return of Harriet, Sven's Lawyer?

Sure, but I'd also like to see Momo take a role in what could easily become a case about AI rights.

[Zebediah]

I forgot about corpse witch until I came in the thread. My first instinct was I hope it's Miss Bubbles framed for war crimes and not May's technical parole violations.

It won't be Bubbles being framed for war crimes - that would be military rather than civilian police.

No, this is definitely about the whole robot fight club. Faye is probably going to be OK because her worst offense is getting paid under the table - there is nothing illegal about repairing robots. Ditto Bubbles. They're small fish. Corpse Witch is the big fish. She's the one running the illegal fight club and probably illegal gambling. Also, unless QC is suddenly taking an extremely dark turn I doubt we'll see an arc with Faye or Bubbles in prison.

So, here's my take: Faye gets an immunity deal for herself in exchange for testimony. She has time to warn Bubbles to get out before the raid happens. She's out of a job again but otherwise in the clear. Meanwhile Bubbles has enough money to start her own repair business and hire Faye.
 

[SomeCanadianWeirdo]

Everyone is assuming Robocop( ) is actually a cop.  If someone in plain clothes flashed me a badge I wouldn't have a clue if they were legit or not.  It's also possible she's bent, and intends to use Faye somehow to extort Corpse Witch. 

More generally it's interesting to consider AI cops in the QCverse.  Given that anti-AI prejudice exists it's not hard to wonder what it's like to be what is probably one of the first AI cops.  Even in the best case scenario there's bound to be some of her co-workers who don't want her around, and say nasty things when they think she can't hear them.  (A dangerous assumption with an AI, who might be able to hear you from quite a distance.)

[BenRG]

Oh, I have no doubt that some 'jokers' in the locker room think it's hilarious to put a bottle of 40W machine oil in her locker and she has to handle being known as 'Toaster Cop' and then being assured that it is just 'friendly ribbing' or 'hazing', likely by her Precinct Captain when she complains. However, like Bubbles, I suspect she joined because she wants to serve (and protect, in her case). I also wonder if she has her ways when dealing with suspects.

"So, Toaster, what do they call you back in the Big City?"

"They call me Ma'am."

[Neko_Ali]

Surprised I didn't see an endless string of Law & Order AI Unit jokes yet. 

While I think Corpse Witch is the most likely target I'm not entirely certain she's going to jail since she probably has lawyers and maybe even connections with the La Robo Nostra.

Judging by the responses here, I would say the reason why there hasn't been a lot of joking about his is because many of don't find police entrapment funny. Way to many of us have been on the negative side of police interaction. Sometimes for the 'crime' of doing nothing wrong, or being the victim of an actual crime.  Again, I'm speaking form experience living in the US here. But unless you have a lot of money/power/control/influence the police are not your friends. Even with 'good cops', any interaction with the police could end up with you in cuffs if they don't like what you have to say. The danger increases depending on who you are and who the cop is and what your area is like. Some of us, like myself, live in active, mortal fear of the police. Those that should, supposedly, be out there to protect law abiding citizens such as myself. But that's not really what they do. It's about protecting the status quo and making their quotas.

[jheartney]

So, here's my take: Faye gets an immunity deal for herself in exchange for testimony. She has time to warn Bubbles to get out before the raid happens. She's out of a job again but otherwise in the clear. Meanwhile Bubbles has enough money to start her own repair business and hire Faye.

If this kind of happy result happens without Faye lawyering up, she' an incredibly lucky person; Faye making any statements to police outside of an immunity deal is just going to screw up her personal situation. If the cops want Faye's help, they can come through with immunity first. If they don't like it they can thank all their brothers who entrapped, lied to and falsely convicted those in their custody in the past.

[Zastie]

I can imagine this might be brushed off as first without any trouble (perhaps just a suspicious warning), but then Faye might not quit her job regardless of the spook. Then, after a while, it might turn into trouble.

[Vyse Inglebard]

This situation is skeevy from start to finish. Always best to only talk with cops with a lawyer present, especially when the cop is plain clothes/unmarked car.
But this is QC, and there's no QC (or webcomics in general) without some sort of dramatic happenstance!

[jheartney]

My guess is they're going to want Faye to wear a wire or face jail. Don't particularly care about ratting out CorpseWitch, but this could be very bad for Bubbles. Faye could pass Bubbles a note saying "I'm wearing a wire" if she's feeling brave. Methinks Faye's employment at the robot fighting rink is pretty much over, though.

[Storel]

The phony "skating rink" has been around for a long time without anybody in law enforcement much seeming to care. I wonder if this is about May in particular? She was worried that even just going into an illegal establishment for repairs might be considered a parole violation. Maybe it was?

[Mr. Skawronska]

Re: the poll, the pie is gonna do hard time. Approximately 3.14 years.

I saw what you did there.

Everyone is assuming Robocop( ) is actually a cop.  If someone in plain clothes flashed me a badge I wouldn't have a clue if they were legit or not.  It's also possible she's bent, and intends to use Faye somehow to extort Corpse Witch. 

An excellent observation.  Especially in this day and age when people are so terrified of the police.  Impersonating has become more prevalent with bolder dirtbags.

Which is why when someone flashes ME a badge, I take a look at the ID which goes with it, and I make a point of interest to KNOW what LE ID's look like in my jurisdiction. 
I don't know all of them, but if some clown claims to be with [Insert My Local Law Enforcement Agency Here] and flashes a [Insert My Local Law Enforcement Agency Here] badge and the wrong ID...

...things may not go so well for him.  

And that's all I think I need to say about that.

[BenRG]

The phony "skating rink" has been around for a long time without anybody in law enforcement much seeming to care.

The local cops are either cool with it or bribed into looking the other way. The State Police however? They're not locals at all and probably won't care less about the local politics of Northampton that keep the Fighting Arena untouchable. They'll just see a huge civil rights violation and tax avoidance scheme; the team that brings that down has a huge feather in their cap to wave around when their promotion dockets land on the Commissioner's desk.

[oeoek]

And no one here wonders what Pintsize has been up to lately?
(the owls his shenanigans are not what they seem).

ps: this one in Jeph's twitter was brilliant! In space you can throw for eternity...

[Method of Madness]

Has anyone ever seen Faye look that angry? I'm not saying she shouldn't be, or that we haven't seen her mad before, but dang. Well drawn, Jeph.

[Neko_Ali]

A point to consider. Police woman may not be here for the fighting arena itself. The fact that she was laying in wait outside of the skate park means either she's been keeping track of Faye's movements, or that she/the State Police are aware/suspect the robot fight club is going on. If they are area of it, they may be on the take, or consider what's going on to be a low priority. What they may be after is something more recent, that triggered or renewed their interest in the place. A visit by a felon on parole. May has already said she wanted to go to the fights, but was afraid that they were tracking or bugging her. To the point where she loudly talks about how she doesn't know such a thing exists, comically trying to throw an eavesdropper off the trail in the most obvious way possible.

Police Woman could be there to check up on May. Perhaps her living situation, her employment, her recent repairs that she said she couldn't afford.... If they suspect she's stealing money again, but don't have proof then they might go to the person they know did the repair work to talk about it.

[Gyrre]

Uh oh! Hey, Faye! Did you remember that the operation that you work for is illegal (at least technically)? Oh, her new acquaintance seems nice but I'll bet that the choice of 'testify or five years' will come up eventually.

Now, I'm pretty sure that the local cops in Northampton are paid well by Corpse Witch to look the other way (especially as it is arguably a victimless crime). However, something tells me that the Massachusetts State Police have a far less charitable view of her 'business', if only because of the rampant bribery and tax avoidance that I'm betting that's going on!

It kind of makes sense that you'd hire synthetics to police crime in the synthetic community. After all 'to catch a thief' and all that; they'd probably think and move at the right rate (and in the right way) to handle AI felons, something few if any humans could do.

Now... I suspect that Bubbles and Faye will shortly be out of a job. I'm wondering: Where this fact will take them?

It's most likely the 'tax avoidance' they take issue with.
The QCverse is a fair bit different than our own, but I'm betting Uncle Sam still wants his cut.

[Kugai]

This may turn out to be about May in the best case

In the worst?   I wonder which countries have no Extradition Treaty

[ZoeB]

So, here's my take: Faye gets an immunity deal for herself in exchange for testimony.

That's not the way things work. Corpse Witch takes the immunity deal, and instead of one conviction, they get dozens. which looks better on the record, and doesn't cause issues with CW's political connections.

Big Fish don't end up in jail; little fish do. All too often little fish with not even a tenuous connection to any crime.

Meanwhile Fay's interaction with the police should be confined to "I assert my right to remain silent... Am I being detained... I wish to have a lawyer present... I do not consent to searches".

Yes, this makes the police's job harder, and is a bane to society. But that's the way the system is set up in the US. You have to play by the rules, bizarre and dysfunctional  though they are.

[ZoeB]

[Storel]

Has anyone ever seen Faye look that angry? I'm not saying she shouldn't be, or that we haven't seen her mad before, but dang. Well drawn, Jeph.

I didn't think she looked angry. More like scornful, as if she's thinking "Oh, right, who could resist pie?? I'll be singing like a canary in no time." [/sarcasm]

[TheEvilDog]

It kind of makes sense that you'd hire synthetics to police crime in the synthetic community. After all 'to catch a thief' and all that; they'd probably think and move at the right rate (and in the right way) to handle AI felons, something few if any humans could do.

I see it more as "If we have to investigate illegal AI activity, we should have someone who can withstand a punch from a combat chassis. I mean, human officer vs crusher AI = squished head."

[cesium133]

Has anyone ever seen Faye look that angry? I'm not saying she shouldn't be, or that we haven't seen her mad before, but dang. Well drawn, Jeph.

I didn't think she looked angry. More like scornful, as if she's thinking "Oh, right, who could resist pie?? I'll be singing like a canary in no time." [/sarcasm]

AIcop.py line 476:

if human.isUnconvinced():
    pie.offer()  #pie is what humans like, right?