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Bubbles and Faye: "The truth is a strange, wonderful and terrible thing and must be treated with caution."

Renee and Brun: "I'm going to buy you a decent alarm clock!"

Brun and Elliott: "You find me attractive. Take me on a date. Now."

Marten and Claire: "Marten, Chad has dumped Mom and we need to cheer her up!"

Clinton and Emily: "Clinnn-tonnn... Help me catch Fairy Girl!"

Wil and Penny: "My sweet muse! Spend the night with me amidst the wonders of prose!"

Steve and Cossette: "Hon... Why is there a robot elf sitting on the table?"

Clinton and Claire: "We are NOT having HIM as a stepfather!"

Veronica, Jim and Sam: "I've never done Christmas 'straight' before!"

Sven and Hannelore: "No-one should celebrate Christmas alone."

Two weeks of Bembo!!!

Other (Please Specify in Comment)

[Geographus]

Apparently the memories are still inside her head, just partitioned off.

Does Faye know about Hannelore's dad?

She knew about Hanners, Marten and Marigold visiting the Space Station of Hanners Dad,
and also Hanners talked about her parents to Faye back when she shortend her hair and
Faye was trimming it, so I am pretty shure Faye knows that.

I am also waiting for them to draw the "Hanners, can I ask you a big favour"-Card.

[Zebediah]

It wouldn't even be that big a favor to ask. Hannelore knows and likes Bubbles, and if she knew how much  her giant robot friend was hurting she'd be on the phone to her dad in a second.

[Geographus]

It wouldn't even be that big a favor to ask. Hannelore knows and likes Bubbles, and if she knew how much  her giant robot friend was hurting she'd be on the phone to her dad in a second.

I think the main issue would be, that the military is also present on the Space Station and that Hanners Dad
is also a little paranoid of secret robots. 

[wlewisiii]

It wouldn't even be that big a favor to ask. Hannelore knows and likes Bubbles, and if she knew how much  her giant robot friend was hurting she'd be on the phone to her dad in a second.

I think the main issue would be, that the military is also present on the Space Station and that Hanners Dad
is also a little paranoid of secret robots. 

But isn't Station the First AI? And the most powerful AI? I doubt they would need to go to Station when an uplink would suffice and Station would crack any encryption that CW could have created. Perhaps not as quick as might be liked but not years or months either - that's one big AI up there.

[Thrudd]

On the question regarding cloning or copying of an AI.

Clone - An organism that is produced asexually from and is genetically identical to a single ancestor.

So the clone would not be the original but formed from the same core matrix - experiences and such would be different during the incubation process and therefore a different individual would result.

Copy - make a similar or identical version of

This would seem to be much simpler depending on the methodology used but here there is an assumption that either the image is static or the copy process is instantaneous. I doubt either is true just like if you underwent and MRI the technicians insist you minimize all movements.

An AI is not a static system but a dynamic always active system like any other "mind".
Copying methods available now or near now are not capable of taking instantaneous 3D snapshot images of anything. If something is moving there will be blur and data loss. You can copy a static program file but you can't copy a program that is running. It is just not possible unless you imaging system is operating at least twice as the fastest state change of what is being imaged if the system is digital. The only theoretic way is to take an image in a single moment in time.

A good graphic example would be making a slow scan image of an active clockwork movement.  The image will not look anything like the original.

(click to show/hide)

[Penquin47]

I'm just going to say that from my experiences with the VA, I'm actually unsurprised that they didn't help her. After all, she's not human. (And also female.)

I won't go into too many details, but when I was active duty, I almost died thanks to a military hospital. I was fortunate that a civilian hospital admitted me and gave me the treatment I needed. And it took me a year and a half to get the military to even pay for my hospital admission, because there was a "suitable hospital" on base.

Given that the standard joke when I was in is that military hospitals use doctors that are too crappy to have a civilian practice, and the VA uses doctors that are too crappy to work in a military hospital, I don't think it's that much of a stretch to think that the VA was substandard in their treatment of a non-human too.

Ouch, that sucks.  But I do want to speak up in defense of military doctors, because a lot of them really are good.  My mom went through the military's medical school, I was born in a military hospital and for the first 21 years of my life, all medical treatment I had was done by military people.  The only significant difference I've noticed between the military care and the civilian care is the cost and availability in my area (there are no military hospitals within 200 miles of me).

[Morituri]

Well, clearly mileage varies on VA hospitals.  That makes me very sad.

If someone here has mustered out and needs help with PTSD symptoms for programs or operations the government will never admit to, however, I can recommend the VA at a specific location on the East Coast as being both helpful and competent. I am at one remove so I don't know exactly *what* happened, but I know *that* things happened on a black program, and that someone I've known a long time came back really really badly in need of help.  And got it.  Apparently getting enrolled in the program took way too long and was way too complicated a process - the "runaround" as people have mentioned - but it was evidently a good program.

[Sullivan]

This would seem to be much simpler depending on the methodology used but here there is an assumption that either the image is static or the copy process is instantaneous.

There are such things as "shadow copies". This is how we take useful, internally-consistent snapshots of things like databases even while they're being updated. No instantaneous copying is required.

[brasca]

While Bubble's story sounds all too real I'm curious about her pariah status among other AIs.  When Momo first saw her she declared her queen.  It was only later when May informed her about her connection to the robot fighting ring as well as her other history that her opinion changed.  Perhaps that was the problem.  Fellow AIs would seek to befriend her until they learn about her past.  That would certainly be another agony to add to the bucket. 

[Morituri]

This would seem to be much simpler depending on the methodology used but here there is an assumption that either the image is static or the copy process is instantaneous.

There are such things as "shadow copies". This is how we take useful, internally-consistent snapshots of things like databases even while they're being updated. No instantaneous copying is required.

To expand on that a little bit:  When copying a database, you send it a transaction.  The effect of that transaction is to copy the database, but the way it actually works is that it starts copying the data, but also from then on, whenever the database processes another transaction, it adds the data that's about to be overwritten to the copy.  If the copy-old-data process hasn't gotten to it yet, this is just an out-of-sequence addition.  Anyway, the copy-old-data process skips anything that's already been done, so data that's been written since the copy transaction never makes it into the copy.

What you wind up with is a copy of the database as it existed at the instant of the 'copy' transaction - even if it's large and takes days to finish the process.

[Kugai]

It leads me to wonder just HOW CW found out or learned about Bubbles and her history in the first place.

[TinPenguin]

New comic is up early.

Jeph has got so much better at saying a lot with a little since strip 500.

[Kugai]

I think Corpse Witch has just made a powerful enemy

[brasca]

I didn't expect the strip to be up this soon. 

I suspected that Bubbles had her memories locked away, but I thought the threat was to unleash them if she rebelled not delete the key.  She actually could walk away, but the memories as terrible as it all is mean that much to her that she remains where she is. 

[TheEvilDog]

I didn't expect the strip to be up this soon. 

I suspected that Bubbles had her memories locked away, but I thought the threat was to unleash them if she rebelled not delete the key.  She actually could walk away, but the memories as terrible as it all is mean that much to her that she remains where she is.

That's the problem. The memories were painful enough that Bubbles accepted CW's offer, but important enough to lock them away. They're so important that Bubbles' can't run away from them for fear of permanently losing them.

[Is it cold in here?]

I think Corpse Witch has just made a powerful enemy

Never harm a friend of The Pugnacious Peach.

[mercykills]

Dammit, Jeph. These feels. 

I just wanted a week of a guy eating cereal.

But seriously, there...there are no words. I think a lot of us saw where this was going several days ago. And yet, here we are and it's not, "huh, I was right"; it's more, "Crap...I need a minute."

[Neko_Ali]

It strikes me that Faye now has the information that Detective Basilisk is looking for. Robots are being taken advantage of at the fight club, or at least one. Chances are the mind altering devices may not be entirely legal, even if Bubbles willing submitted to it. Holding someone in indentured servitude via blackmail certainly is. And if Corpse Witch has done it to one AI there, what do you think the chances that some of the other fighters or staff haven't been coerced.

[St.Clair]

Yes, but the question is, do you think she has any chance of being treated better by the "legitimate" authorities?

[Tova]

I'm not a fan of the idea that Station could crack the encryption and thus solve the problem. If it's brute forced, then that would break my willing suspension of disbelief. If it's cracked via a backdoor, known weakness, or some other hand wave, then it's simply a deus ex machina.

They need to find a way to change the equation such that Corpse Witch wants to hand the key over more than she wants to destroy it or to retain Bubbles' service. In other words, they need leverage.

Detective Basilisk may be able to assist, but they'd have to consult her without Corpse Witch finding out, which may be a high risk strategy. Alternatively, Jeremy may know something.

They're not exactly racing against the clock, so they have time to gather information.

[Perfectly Reasonable]

Dang.
ALL MY HUGS!

And... I wouldn't trust Officer Basilisk to find the plug in a bathtub. But Corpse Witch... what do we know about her story? Sweet fluffing all. How did she get to be an AI memory editing expert? And did she REALLY DO what she claims to have done?

[Is it cold in here?]

Bubbles showed PTSD symptoms a couple of times since we first saw her. Whatever Corpse Witch did, it wasn't a PTSD cure.

Anyone else starting to suspect that CW didn't really do what she claimed to have done?

What does it feel like to be hugged when you're a walking suit of armor?

Didn't Bubbles have therapy in the past? The "better minds than yours have tried" line made it sound that way.

[sitnspin]

In some ways it is worse without the memories. Bubbles is left with the pain and trauma, but without the specific triggering memories she can never face them and address the source of the pain.

[Gyrre]

I'm not a fan of the idea that Station could crack the encryption and thus solve the problem. If it's brute forced, then that would break my willing suspension of disbelief. If it's cracked via a backdoor, known weakness, or some other hand wave, then it's simply a deus ex machina.

They need to find a way to change the equation such that Corpse Witch wants to hand the key over more than she wants to destroy it or to retain Bubbles' service. In other words, they need leverage.

Detective Basilisk may be able to assist, but they'd have to consult her without Corpse Witch finding out, which may be a high risk strategy. Alternatively, Jeremy may know something.

They're not exactly racing against the clock, so they have time to gather information.

Sounds like someone needs to get ahold of Nathan "Nate" Ford and his crew.

[Morituri]

And in this strip, Faye gives Bubbles The Right Answer to her problem.

or at least, The Correct Response.

I have a different concern actually.

Deletion is easier than Encryption, and from Bubbles' perspective there is no difference in the absence of that key.  She has taken it on faith that a key even exists, and Corpse Witch does not inspire faith.

[Radium_Coyote]

The name "Corpse Witch" takes on some new meaning.

[mvdwege]

[Bubbles] has taken it on faith that a key even exists, and Corpse Witch does not inspire faith.

See, I disagree with that assessment: Corpse Witch, like most of those in organised crime, is a businesswoman first and foremost. That her business is illegal does not mean that she shouldn't be trustworthy when it comes to her word; especially in a business that survives on word of mouth, being known to keep your word is an asset.

Her deals may come with a different sort of small print than regular ones, and you probably do not want to know how she deals with defaulters, but given her line of work I think we can assume that she will indeed have an encryption key for Bubbles' memories.

[BenRG]

Yeah, this is pretty much the scenario that I imagined when Corpse Witch first mentioned the encryption key. Yes, it is effectively slavery through blackmail which, IRL, is disturbingly common, even in first world countries. There just seems to be some people who regard the amount of effort required to coerce unpaid service to be worth the feeling of superiority that comes from having slaves.

FWIW, I don't think that it is possible to attempt to forcibly extract the key from Corpse Witch in any way without her deleting. She might even have a 'dead man's switch' command set up to go at a moment's notice (based on her awareness of how volatile Bubbles can be sometimes). The only practical option would be to surprise and disable her and then access her memory in a useful way for as long as it takes to find the key without her regaining consciousness. It strikes me as that would be a difficult task, especially as a being like her has to have a few contingencies in place to protect herself and the information she wishes to keep secret.

No, my idea is that the point will come where Bubbles will take permanently losing those memories as the price she has to pay and pays it because the alternative just simply isn't tolerable anymore. Sometimes, to lose the chains, you have to lose other things too. Freedom always brings with it a price. I suspect that Corpse Witch would be furious at having misread to what lengths Bubbles was willing to go to and will bitterly blame Faye for this defeat.

Yes, but the question is, do you think she has any chance of being treated better by the "legitimate" authorities?

Probably not although Bubbles might be allowed to walk without being prosecuted herself depending on how big a fish she helps them land.

Didn't Bubbles have therapy in the past? The "better minds than yours have tried" line made it sound that way.

I suspect that she got a lot of very conditional 'help' from the self-righteous in the AI community. Basically, they encouraged her to publicly recant and repent, telling her that making a show of admitting that she was wrong and that no-one should follow her path would make her feel better.

[MrNumbers]

Man, how embarassing would it be if it turned out the encryption key just turned out to be "Rot13"

[Akima]

It's no surprise, but we finally have confirmation that Corpse Witch is a bad robot. Faye's response is the right immediate response, but what is the next step?

FWIW, I don't think that it is possible to attempt to forcibly extract the key from Corpse Witch in any way without her deleting.

That would depend what you mean by "forcibly". Some form of blackmail, or similar leverage, would work, I think.

[anahata]

Seems simple enough to me, especially if CW has been illegally interfering with any of the other AI's minds and this is seen as a much worse crime than running an underground fighting/gambling business.

Faye to CW: "give Bubbles back the encryption key and we won't go to the police about what you've been doing"

[BenRG]

The problem is we don't know yet just what Corpse Witch may have coerced Bubbles into doing. She's pretty strong and most underworld personalities with muscle on hand will use it to damaging effect. It is quite possible that Corpse Witch would call any such bluff, knowing Bubbles will be in just as deep trouble as her in the event of the organisation being busted by the authorities.

In any case, there's nothing stopping Corpse Witch from replying. "Fine, but if you do that, you'll never get those memories back ever. Make your choice about what is most important to you." I think that, if there was a simple solution, Bubbles would have taken that option before now.

This is why I think that, ultimately, this arc is going to go to Bubbles making the conscious decision to lose those memories for good in exchange for doing the right thing and in exchange for being free. She'll need Faye's support to confront that loss, of course.

[Scarblac]

Encrypted, so using Station is out.

Corpse Witch will never give back the key after ten years -- she did this without telling Bubbles beforehand, so the moment she doesn't have leverage against Bubbles anymore, she should expect revenge. Bubbles is very capable of revenge against Corpse Witch. Bubbles should assume the memories to be lost forever, but if she were going to do that, she would have done it before.

But if we take the outside universe view for a moment, clearly Faye is going to go to detective Basilisk. Remember 3312 - "As long as nobody's being taken advantage of, it's barely even a crime. Look all I'm saying is I got bigger fish to fry. Believe me, there are some big fish out there. But I'd sleep better at night if someone were being taken advantage of, I could count on a concerned citizen to let me know."

That line, Bubbles is being taken advantage of, and Corpse Witch has mistreated Faye now so she has no reason to remain loyal. If Jeff now does something different then why that setup?

[Tova]

Faye to CW: "give Bubbles back the encryption key and we won't go to the police about what you've been doing"

The first rule of extortion is to never issue a threat you're unwilling to carry out.

Corpse Witch would laugh such a threat off, and they either lose the key or all credibility.

[TinPenguin]

But if we take the outside universe view for a moment, clearly Faye is going to go to detective Basilisk. Remember 3312 - "As long as nobody's being taken advantage of, it's barely even a crime. Look all I'm saying is I got bigger fish to fry. Believe me, there are some big fish out there. But I'd sleep better at night if someone were being taken advantage of, I could count on a concerned citizen to let me know."

That line, Bubbles is being taken advantage of, and Corpse Witch has mistreated Faye now so she has no reason to remain loyal. If Jeff now does something different then why that setup?

The real question now is whether Faye tells Bubbles before doing it.

[ZoeB]

Many ethical dilemmas here.
Also a Big Problem. One that should be kicked upstairs to the Great AIs.

CW is broken. What caused that? How do we prevent recurrence? How do we treat her as an experimental specimen, while respecting her personhood? The world and the future cannot afford the existence of CWs. Can she be rehabilitated? Testing to destruction would be just, and also the practical course, but those who fight monsters must beware they don't become monsters themselves thereby.

Robot Jail is for those who make mistakes, and can learn from it. It isn't appropriate for the AI equivalent of Charles Manson or Hannibal Lector.

CW stated that she knows worse things than Robot Jail, and has the caoacity to inflict them on others. I now believe her.

[Truec]

A few people are suggesting going to Basilisk about Bubbles getting her head shrunk. You're making a big assumption that Corpse Witch's memory encryption is in any way illegal.  Unethical, certainly, using it for blackmail would certainly be illegal, but the actual process?  Regular humans can already legally do that do each other (well, less encryption and more screwing with the subconscious, but still). Blackmail isn't exactly the kind of thing you can prove without a paper trail, there might be very little that Roko could do here.  Also, she hasn't exactly showed the greatest degree of competence so far.

Encrypted, so using Station is out.

Station is, among other things, a supercomputer years, possibly decades, ahead of anything we currently have.  A supercomputer years or decades ahead of anything we currently have is exactly what you'd want for trying to crack encryption. Asking Hannelore to get Station's help would be a perfectly logical thing to do.

But perfectly logical courses of action are very rarely interesting storytelling.

Robot Jail is for those who make mistakes, and can learn from it. It isn't appropriate for the AI equivalent of Charles Manson or Hannibal Lector.

Corpse Witch is a creepy and manipulative gangster.  We've seen nothing to indicate that she's any more of a sociopath than any other career criminal.

[Thrudd]

Encrypted, so using Station is out.

Station is, among other things, a supercomputer years, possibly decades, ahead of anything we currently have.  A supercomputer years or decades ahead of anything we currently have is exactly what you'd want for trying to crack encryption. Asking Hannelore to get Station's help would be a perfectly logical thing to do.

But by the same corollary the levels of encryption will be years, possibly decades, ahead of anything we currently have.
Brute forcing with orders of magnitude more power will reduce the time required by the same magnitude.
So instead of getting it solved some time past the heat death of the universe it will be only a few billion years. Add a bit more time to allow station to actually look after all the other parameters it has to as the station AI.
A viable answer for a neigh immortal intelligence but not so much so for the carbon based bags of mostly water.
Yeah, really big numbers are really big.

[Mad Cat]

I know three things:

1) Faye is hugging Bubbles affectionately.

2) Bubbles' physiology is not prone to hypoxia.

3) That's just Bubbles' normal coloration.

But damn it looks like Faye is choking Bubbles out in that last panel.

[gprimr1]

I see two different problems:

1.) The partition
2.) The encryption

To get the memories back, Bubbles would both need to break the encryption and repartition the drive. Station might be able to break the encryption, we don't know. There are encryption technologies today that with our current technology would take longer than the life of the sun to break, could be broken in minutes with Quantum computers.

but even if Station breaks the encryption, can it repartition the memories?

I think going to the police about this would be a horrible mistake for Faye. CW could just delete the key and done deal. I think this will be an interesting test of Faye's impulse control.

[osaka]

I'm not a fan of the idea that Station could crack the encryption and thus solve the problem. If it's brute forced, then that would break my willing suspension of disbelief. If it's cracked via a backdoor, known weakness, or some other hand wave, then it's simply a deus ex machina.

They need to find a way to change the equation such that Corpse Witch wants to hand the key over more than she wants to destroy it or to retain Bubbles' service. In other words, they need leverage.

Detective Basilisk may be able to assist, but they'd have to consult her without Corpse Witch finding out, which may be a high risk strategy. Alternatively, Jeremy may know something.

They're not exactly racing against the clock, so they have time to gather information.

Sounds like someone needs to get ahold of Nathan "Nate" Ford and his crew.

Getting Alec Hardison on the case would effectively be a deus ex machina since he's probably capable of editing CW's consciousness as well. It would solve the problem tho.

[Kugai]

Whatever happens, I get the impression it's going to be a bumpy ride before it is resolved.

[brasca]

Two million years or ten years in Corpse Witch's employment.  Seems like an easy enough choice since we don't know how long Bubbles has been working for her already.  However, I suspect that after ten years Bubbles will be so complicit in Corpse Witch's business that she'll have no choice, but to continue working for her even if gets the key back. 

[ZoeB]

Robot Jail is for those who make mistakes, and can learn from it. It isn't appropriate for the AI equivalent of Charles Manson or Hannibal Lector.

Corpse Witch is a creepy and manipulative gangster.  We've seen nothing to indicate that she's any more of a sociopath than any other career criminal.

She has powers sufficient to subvert and change the minds of military AIs. She has a chip on her shoulder about humans.



 

[blt]

Jeremy's gonna be dead when they get back, isn't he?

[TheEvilDog]

Jeremy's gonna be dead when they get back, isn't he?

Either that or he'll be disarmed...

[Akima]

CW stated that she knows worse things than Robot Jail, and has the caoacity to inflict them on others. I now believe her.

Mmm... Something like the "attic" from Dollhouse perhaps...

[Morituri]

[Bubbles] has taken it on faith that a key even exists, and Corpse Witch does not inspire faith.

See, I disagree with that assessment: Corpse Witch, like most of those in organised crime, is a businesswoman first and foremost.

I think I disagree.  She enjoys hurting people.  She likes the thrill of having power over others. 

These traits lead to bad business decisions.

[jheartney]

It does seem to me unwarranted for Bubbles to trust CW to release the encryption key after ten years. Though if CW reneges, Bubbles might conclude that CW will never release the encryption, so there's no point in waiting longer. Two minutes later, CW is scrap metal.

[cesium133]

Such an Eve-il joke in the past panel.