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Bubbles' memories are missing! What could this mean?

Emily just erased the memories that were disguised as Monooculus Trihornus.
This room is a blind trap and the Memories are actually hidden behind the back wall which is a very cleverly disguised Security Firewall.
The memories exist, but Corpse Witch has actually removed them and has them stored in a place only she knows while implanting a false memory about the Encryption Key.
This isn't actually the room with the locked memories - THAT is hidden elsewhere and this has been a false trail.
There is no spoon. Wait... I mean, there are no memories. It's all a bluff CW used to control Bubbles.
No wait, I know what really is going on, and I will explain all in ludicrous detail in the thread below.

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Author Topic: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)  (Read 42362 times)

wlewisiii

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #200 on: 27 Jan 2017, 05:28 »

Statue my shiny metal ass. Corpse Witch is going to wind up in a Furby.

There are indeed worse places than Robot Jail.

Oh, a furby would be kind. Far too kind.

I'd suggest  a rack mount as a place where the drive/cpu/whatever it is that IS the AI has power. And no IO. Just a few centuries of power and no way to communicate with anyone else.
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Method of Madness

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #201 on: 27 Jan 2017, 05:45 »

As a side effect, this shows clearly that virtually every instance in which the forum wonders whether it influenced a story line is unlikely to be the case.
I'm pretty sure this buffer is new for him, but the forum being influence is still unlikely.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #202 on: 27 Jan 2017, 05:52 »

For all her faults, I have to feel sorry for CW here.

She just pissed off, enslaved, then attempted to kill an AI with military experience, in a chassis that was almost certainly designed to close the distance with Main Battle Tanks and open them like a packet of crisps.

The next few minutes will feel like weeks I'm sure.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #203 on: 27 Jan 2017, 06:45 »

Why am I getting a hankering for some fresh pop-up toast? 

Yeah, no need for any actual psycho diving, just add a language buffer/filter that does phrase/word substitution to the speech interface and install the whole thing into some public appliance that gets very little respect in the first place.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #204 on: 27 Jan 2017, 07:21 »

As a side effect, this shows clearly that virtually every instance in which the forum wonders whether it influenced a story line is unlikely to be the case.

There has been exactly one strip in the long history of QC that was directly influenced by these forums.

The odds against a repeat increase daily.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #205 on: 27 Jan 2017, 07:27 »

Punishment for CW: She becomes the AI responsible for playing "It's a Small World" at Disneyland. She does nothing else all day but play that song over and over, and she can never get away from it.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #206 on: 27 Jan 2017, 07:33 »

While I'm partial to the 'stuck in a closet with a power line and nothing else' option, I think ripping off CW's head and running power to it would make for a lovely paperweight / conversation piece.  Get that whole 'head on a pike' effect without actually, you know, killing her.  Because I think murdering CW while Officer Basilisk is sniffing around is likely to cause Bubbles more harm than good.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #207 on: 27 Jan 2017, 07:39 »

I don't support the death sentence for any intelligence, organic or mechanical. I suspect the judicial system had suitable punishments for slavery.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #208 on: 27 Jan 2017, 07:40 »

As a side effect, this shows clearly that virtually every instance in which the forum wonders whether it influenced a story line is unlikely to be the case.

There has been exactly one strip in the long history of QC that was directly influenced by these forums.

The odds against a repeat increase daily.
I'm still angry at myself for not taking part.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #209 on: 27 Jan 2017, 08:23 »

BUBBLES: "For all the years I've worked here, you've always called me Bubbles. Yet I am also known by another name...."

CORPSE WITCH: "Wait....you?!"

BUBBLES: "Permit me to demonstrate how I acquired that alternative name."

*dismembering commences*
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #210 on: 27 Jan 2017, 09:08 »

Woop! Go Bubbles! Time for CorpseWitch to get her comeuppance!

Global Moderator Comment Edited to removed gendered insult such as we do not tolerate in this forum.

Global Moderator Comment A bit more about that, to bring all the new people up to speed. It was some of our most level-headed members, people who've proven that they don't sweat the small stuff, who told us that gender-specific bad language reduced their feeling of welcome here. We understand it's an easy mistake to make! I've even reminded a liberal woman about it. Special note to European members: I gather that "cunt" is on the same level as "git" outside the US. In the US it's an explosive sexist insult up there with the worst ethnic slurs.
« Last Edit: 27 Jan 2017, 09:40 by Is it cold in here? »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #211 on: 27 Jan 2017, 09:11 »

BUBBLES: "Permit me to demonstrate how I acquired that alternative name."

*dismembering commences*

Officer Basilisk, surveying the carnage: "So what, exactly, happened here?"

Bubbles: "I can't remember."

 :clairedoge:
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FreQ

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #212 on: 27 Jan 2017, 09:34 »

This isn't panning out how I'd expect it to.

Corpse Witch is thoroughly unpleasant, but also intelligent, cunning and cautious, an expert at manipulating people. I don't understand why she would simply delete Bubbles' memories, removing all leverage she could use. I was certain that CW would have planned for this, either with the data being stored off site, or maybe somewhere else inside Bubbles' head.

I'm obviously hopeful that Bubbles has some form of justice, or at least gets to live a free life with people she cares about. But I cannot help but think CW isn't done yet. Remember, we haven't even heard from Jeremy. Surely he will be a plot device to help Bubbles solve her memory issues in the coming strips? "I overhear a lot of things" - we haven't had any elaboration on quote from Jeremy yet.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #213 on: 27 Jan 2017, 09:44 »

Welcome, new person!

I've wondered that too.
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BenRG

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #214 on: 27 Jan 2017, 09:49 »

Bubbles is a former military AI. I'm betting that the DoD put fail-safes into her system (possibly in the 'brain-stem' local control software for her chassis) that prevented any outside persons viewing or altering her memories. Any attempt to do so would lead to the memory address being purged and overwritten with a gibberish '1010101010...' code. It wasn't really Corpse Witch's fault; I doubt anyone knew about it, not even Bubbles. However, her crime was to pretend the procedure worked and use it as leverage to essentially enslave a terribly emotionally-vulnerable being (oh, and add in a 'brain-bomb' kill program too) rather than honestly tell her what had happened and commiserate with her for her bad luck.
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FreQ

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #215 on: 27 Jan 2017, 09:57 »

That's a good point. I hadn't considered how her military AI might be different from civilian.

It'll be interesting how this develops.

Thanks for the welcome, although I'm not really new. I've been reading for roughly a decade but just never felt the need to post before.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #216 on: 27 Jan 2017, 10:53 »

As much as I liked BenRG's idea for Momo/May/Faye/Bubbles taking over the robofighting business, I don't really see them being successful at it. I don't know why I feel that way. May be those friends of ours just don't have the business nose that it may require? Can't quite put my finger on it ... but ... Let me just state that they are no Don King. Corpse Witch is not nice, but she has been quite good at running the show. Admittedly this is more than a bit sad view, sorry.

OTOH I could easily see Bubbles, Faye & Jeremy starting their own robo body shop. If the fight club members get better pay in the future, they continue to be regular patrons. But will there be a fight club with CW (inevitably) removed from the business?

Thankfully this arc ain't over yet.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #217 on: 27 Jan 2017, 10:57 »

Statue my shiny metal ass. Corpse Witch is going to wind up in a Furby.

There are indeed worse places than Robot Jail.

Oh, a furby would be kind. Far too kind.

I'd suggest  a rack mount as a place where the drive/cpu/whatever it is that IS the AI has power. And no IO. Just a few centuries of power and no way to communicate with anyone else.

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WareWolf

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #218 on: 27 Jan 2017, 11:00 »

Punishment for CW: She becomes the AI responsible for playing "It's a Small World" at Disneyland. She does nothing else all day but play that song over and over, and she can never get away from it.

Jesus. Remind me never to piss you people off.
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Neko_Ali

Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #219 on: 27 Jan 2017, 12:06 »

It's also possible that Bubbles' now missing memories are because Corpse Witch screwed up. We know that altering a mind of an AI is a delicate operation. It's entirely possible that she was intending do so what Bubbles asked and seal the memories away to be retrieved later, but either overestimated her skill or had a 'woops' moment and deleted them instead. So she installed the locks and virus instead and told Bubbles all was well. After all, Bubbles gets what she wants in the short term, CW gets a servant she can hold over with blackmail and if Bubbles ever pushed to hard to leave, she could just destroy Bubbles' mind. All wins from Corpse Witch's viewpoint.
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WareWolf

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #220 on: 27 Jan 2017, 12:25 »

That's a good point. I hadn't considered how her military AI might be different from civilian.

I cant find the exact strip, but in a conversation with Momo, Bubbles described how some AI's wanted to serve their country. So I don't think they're purpose-built for the military, at least not all of them. Some are volunteers.

Now, after military training and service, their thinking would be different, in the same way that military trained and experienced humans often look at the world differently than they did as civilians.

Edit: Ah, here it is. http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3092

Edit: there's also this strip: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3074
« Last Edit: 27 Jan 2017, 12:39 by WareWolf »
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blt

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #221 on: 27 Jan 2017, 12:41 »

Bubbles is a former military AI. I'm betting that the DoD put fail-safes into her system (possibly in the 'brain-stem' local control software for her chassis) that prevented any outside persons viewing or altering her memories. Any attempt to do so would lead to the memory address being purged and overwritten with a gibberish '1010101010...' code. It wasn't really Corpse Witch's fault; I doubt anyone knew about it, not even Bubbles. However, her crime was to pretend the procedure worked and use it as leverage to essentially enslave a terribly emotionally-vulnerable being (oh, and add in a 'brain-bomb' kill program too) rather than honestly tell her what had happened and commiserate with her for her bad luck.

So in this theory there's protections that you can't read without the memories being purged, but you can write in an incredibly complex encryption on the overwritten data and install a fail-deadly security program?  I don't buy.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #222 on: 27 Jan 2017, 13:07 »

Bubbles is a former military AI. I'm betting that the DoD put fail-safes into her system (possibly in the 'brain-stem' local control software for her chassis) that prevented any outside persons viewing or altering her memories. Any attempt to do so would lead to the memory address being purged and overwritten with a gibberish '1010101010...' code. It wasn't really Corpse Witch's fault; I doubt anyone knew about it, not even Bubbles. However, her crime was to pretend the procedure worked and use it as leverage to essentially enslave a terribly emotionally-vulnerable being (oh, and add in a 'brain-bomb' kill program too) rather than honestly tell her what had happened and commiserate with her for her bad luck.

Agreed.  Up until this week I've playing devil's advocate since we didn't know enough and Bubbles willingly submitted to the operation, but Corpse Witch should have told her the memories were deleted in the process and definitely not plant a bomb that could be activated if she turned against her. 
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #223 on: 27 Jan 2017, 13:07 »

OK, I am sort of disappointed by the comic recently. I would not have a problem if encryption was established as easier to break in QC-verse than in our world, but there was so much build-up to the encryption being pretty much impossible, this resolution feels like a huge letdown. There were entire comics dedicated to the impossibility of solving the issue easily, and then the issue gets solved easily. I assume the storytelling purpose is to establish Creepybot as unthinkably powerful (together with casual paralysing people and bragging - twice, at that - to Faye that she could not do anything to threaten the Creepybot).

But I am not thrilled at this, because this new character feels a bit... God Mode Sue-ish. Maybe it's my tabletop RPG experience, but a new character that can casually do amazing stuff and ignore constraints put forward by the setting, where such a possibility was not earlier hinted at, and the story is not, at its core, ABOUT incredible capabilities and their impact on the world... yeah, such characters are less than interesting to me, and make me more than a little wary.

Another thing that I don't particularly like is - CW's behaviour does not make consistent sense to me. And the newest comic finally let me put my finger on why. She was shown manipulating Bubbles into not spending much time outside, not making social connections, and so on. She had the vibe of "she wants to be the person Bubbles turns to, and make her mistrust everyone else". What with her multiple comments about how Bubbles will get hurt if she gets too trusting. Sort of the "stepmother from Tangled" sort of thing. But when we're shown that she not only CAN just tell Bubbles what to do and what not to do, but she's WILLING to control what Bubbles does (and the "it's time we curtail your..." comment feels that way), such manipulation and the need to make Bubbles dependent on her via mistrust towards the world... it makes little sense. And yes, the encryption can be broken easily by Creepybot, but *CW can't have known that*. It was established clearly that the common wisdom is that such encryption is pretty much unbreakable.

It feels to me like the comic took a wild turn, and I don't mind sudden changes, but this one does not feel like it belongs with what happened earlier.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #224 on: 27 Jan 2017, 13:26 »

Good points. We also still don't know why a human was needed to go into Bubble's mind or who the creepybot even is.

I hope next week we get some more clarification. I'd like to see creepybot walk into the shop and finally reveal who or what creepybot is.

Wouldn't it be funny if it turned out to be CW's boss? Or Boss's boss?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #225 on: 27 Jan 2017, 13:34 »

Is it possible that the Gray One's intervention was (at least in part) aimed at short-circuiting Basilisk's investigation? (Of course, I can think of other ways that could have been done, but it might be a side-effect of other to-them desirable outcomes.)
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #226 on: 27 Jan 2017, 16:15 »

We also still don't know why a human was needed to go into Bubble's mind

Immunity to AI malware is onne possibility...
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Neko_Ali

Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #227 on: 27 Jan 2017, 16:50 »

Creepy didn't want to enter Bubbles mind. They said it several times, they take sanctity of the mind, at least the AI mind, very seriously. It wasn't that they couldn't enter Bubbles mind and do the job. They didn't want to do it. Instead, they got Emily to do it. Possibly she's the best mentally do deal with whatever stress a human would encounter brain-diving an AI. Maybe Creepy just didn't want Faye to do it, or didn't have the computer know how. Who knows. The programs that Creepy provided did all the heavy lifting anyway, but they were made cartoonishly simple. As if they were programming for a toddler. Which probably well describes their attitudes towards humanity.

People keep trying to find some dark motive why Creepy did what they did... But everything is adequately explained by what Creepy said. Occam's Razor says all other things being equal simpler explanations are better than complex ones. There is no need to figure out some arcane mystery that Jeph somehow didn't explain well enough, when the explanations given already match up with the observed facts.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #228 on: 27 Jan 2017, 19:43 »


I cant find the exact strip, but in a conversation with Momo, Bubbles described how some AI's wanted to serve their country. So I don't think they're purpose-built for the military, at least not all of them. Some are volunteers.

Now, after military training and service, their thinking would be different, in the same way that military trained and experienced humans often look at the world differently than they did as civilians.

Edit: Ah, here it is. http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3092

Edit: there's also this strip: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3074

Thanks for quoting those links! My own belief is that you can't really purpose-build an AI. You can stack modifiers in your favor, but in the end you have to take what you get and hope they go along with what you had in mind. Remember Leda used to be a ballistic missile sub, and Charlotte was a bank AI before she was sent to hang out with the toasters.

....

GreyCreep said "We think you know what we are" to Bubbles. So Corpse Witch must have known too. But that did not deter her. Criminal mind and so on...
« Last Edit: 27 Jan 2017, 19:54 by Perfectly Reasonable »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #229 on: 27 Jan 2017, 20:41 »

Immunity to malware makes sense. Also, I wonder if there are any differences in how AIs think vs how humans think.

I think the reason people are looking for an ulterior motive is the sort of deux ex machina feeling after the build up of how the encryption was unbreakable.

I just want to know who these people are lol.
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Larm Hargraven

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #230 on: 27 Jan 2017, 21:20 »

I connect with a lot of comments on the comic's direction, and I think I can help break down -why- we feel a bit...disappointed? Bored? Apathetic? Something along those feelings. Reading this comic arc, I'm trying to imagine it in the format it's made to be, a comic. And in a comic, we like to have nautral progression of events, stories, and ideas. The problem is that sometimes it can be hampered by the attempt of adding new concepts or ideas to the comic to change things up. That in itself is fine, but like I said, readers like to have a nautral progression. This is not a natural progression. Before the start of this arc, the highest octane amount of action or drama we saw like this was Faye's drunken trip to the hospital. But it was tied to a very real issue of alcoholism, which the comic is suited for as it usually focuses on themes of relationships, friends, family, and moving on in life with day-to-day problems. And Jeph was able to add friggen AI robots into this whole setting in a natural way. No one questions AI in the world of QC, they're there and even have helped with those very real issues we read about in this comic. But I digress, the point is the arc has added too much too fast and not answered enough.

In the course of this arc, we were introduced to a LOT of new concepts. Not just in the metalevel of writing, but in character development and world building. We're introduced to AI Decryption, the cloak and dagger going on, BUT ALSO here is this character who knows everything, acts like they do, is adding unnatural abilities to what is normally a mundane world without any answer OR QUESTION from the main characters outside of a "What's happening" "Oh don't worry about, heheh. See how full of myself I seem, don't I appear OMINOUS?" BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE time to show you what it looks like to IN an AI brain. That's right, that super hard encryption we mentioned? HERE IT IS. LOOK AT IT. Ohp, ok that piece is done, time to jump to the resolution now. Oh also Creepybot may or may not return?

So now we're battling all these new concepts, AND a character who is kind've going to Mary Sue levels of power and we're left with a climax that makes ZERO sense. Why a human? WTF was the use of the "inside of an AI brain" visualization if it was only used for three strips? In fact, why mention that whole scene all together? Are we going back to it anytime? Why is Creppybot leaving and suddenly sentimental? What is up with their powers? How come no one is mentioning that more? Also WHY did we spend so many strips looking for alternative methods that spent about 1-2 strips doing only for out penultimate scene ALSO be like...2-3 strips? Why are we just wrapping up the loss of Bubble's memories with a simple "imma beat u up now" ending? AND IS ANYONE GOING TO WAKE UP THE OTHERS? THERE WAS A TRANSITION OF TIME TO GET TO CORPSEWITCH.

So there, that's all of the new ideas and concepts and the questions I myself simply had throughout the arc. As you can see, it's confusing and muddled a bit, which is how I felt reading this arc. But does this also mean Jeph is a bad writer? Nah. He's a good one actually, but sometimes trying out new concepts can not turn out well. Sometimes they don't come out as you hope and the audience takes it in a way you didn't expect. This is just one of those cases. So I hope this helped, it probably was more rant-y than I wanted it to be so maybe it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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jwhouk

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #231 on: 27 Jan 2017, 21:59 »

Gray One. Heh, that's a new name...



Wait a minute.

"GRAY" one?

Would that be what they call themselves, now? Instead of what they called themselves, then?

You know...

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #232 on: 27 Jan 2017, 22:00 »

Joined to post about this week's strips. Howdy.

Like a lot of people, I feel like Jeph's trying some new stuff, and it's not quite landing.

I feel like this was meant to do a few things. One was bring a climax to the Bubbles/Corpse Witch storyline. I actually think that, for the most part, this was handled well. The important beats were hit there.

The other thing it was meant to do was introduce CreepyBot. I suspect CreepyBot may be an aspect or a servant of the Singularity (remember that?). Whatever they are, I'm sure we'll see more and get a fuller explanation.

However, I think having them just pop up out of nowhere after establishing that the powerful AIs we're already familiar with (Station and others) were unable to do anything about the encryption felt... a bit rushed. There was no build-up to it. I think it might have worked better if there had been an intermediate step there, and maybe downplay the "all-powerful, all-knowing" bits that popped up in the intro. Like, even if it was something silly like Pintsize saying, "Well, I might know a guy..." would have set it up better, I think.

That said, I'm still really interested to see where both of these things go. Corpse Witch is definitely in serious trouble. We'll see how much trouble, and whether or not Faye will have to actually take out a loan to take care of the Fight Club bots. I want to see more of CreepyBot, especially if I'm right about them being connected to the Singularity. I think in general, Jeph's writing has improved a lot over the years. I think even with a misstep here, this will be going interesting places going forward.
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Mr. Skawronska

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #233 on: 27 Jan 2017, 23:38 »

I'd like to see Bubbles rip CW's AI core out (her "heart"), throwing her lifeless chassis into the corner, and walk out tossing it up in the air and whistling...

...next panel, handing the core to Hanners...

...next panel, Hanners handing the core to Station...

...and the next panel being something creative.  Although I must admit "It's a small world" recording player on infinite loop is pretty damn good.
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Skewbrow

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #234 on: 27 Jan 2017, 23:43 »

Wait a minute.

"GRAY" one?

Would that be what they call themselves, now? Instead of what they called themselves, then?


May be as a pun on meatbags and their less puissant Cray-1?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #235 on: 28 Jan 2017, 03:10 »

Punishment for CW: She becomes the AI responsible for playing "It's a Small World" at Disneyland. She does nothing else all day but play that song over and over, and she can never get away from it.

Jesus. Remind me never to piss you people off.

I don't mean to be hurtful, but could everyone salivating at the thought of CW getting her comeuppance please take a step back, and try to view themselves objectively?

I'll be brutal here. You're discussing how to most effectively torture someone. Not just physical pain, but mental anguish. Sheer and unalloyed sadism.

Not as an unfortunate but necessary side effect of behaviour modification. Not "to teach her a lesson she will never forget". But for the deep and unholy joy you get from seeing evil get its most Just reward.

Maybe CW can be rehabilitated. I have my doubts. But if not.. has her behaviour merited the forfeit of all respect due to another sophont? Consideration, yes, that's forfeit. Perhaps a quick personal extinction should be her lot as her right to be is questionable. But not respect. If she can't be salvaged, the kindest and most effective course is to immerse her in a virtual reality for a significant period, a place where she can work out her sick fantasies and goals without hurting anyone, until she either sees the error of her ways, how farnarckling pointless it all is, or the plug is pulled on it and her. The important thing is never giving her the chance to do more harm. The rest, well, whatever.

Think about it. If a vicious, slimy little rat bit you, would you just quickly whack it on the head, or would you spent hours and money developing a torture device for rats just to subject it to maximum excruciation for no other reason than "justice"?  Now if you wouldn't do that to a rat with an obnoxious personality, why would you do that to a sophont?

If the rat didn't bite you, but bit your 3 month old child, would you torture it like that? Even though as a parent, every fibre of your being would cry out to do just that? I think not. Oh, you might chuck it in a furnace, but you wouldn't then fish out the smouldering, shrieking thing, revive it, heal it just enough to do it again, and keep on doing it just to hear the squeals.

Or if you would, you need help. And must be prevented from harming others.

I'm atheist. As spiritual as a brick. Maybe it's because I'm so spiritually and religiously stunted that I can see this when so many people better than me cannot.

Maybe it's because I fight monsters, and so I have to beware that I too don't become a monster thereby.

Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird.

The Abyss is probably thoroughly bored of staring into me by now. No significant handhold to grab me by, just the usual very human imperfections.
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themacnut

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #236 on: 28 Jan 2017, 08:54 »

ZoeB has a point above; if you're going to subject CW to a Fate Worse Than Deletion scenario, then you'd might as well just delete her, since putting her in that, for example "It's a Small World After All" loop would drive her insane, therefore making her more dangerous than ever before, if she were ever let out. Which is the point, she could never be let out, as she'd then be too great a danger to others.

This is precisely the mistake that has been made in criminal justice systems in the US, too much emphasis on punishment and not enough on rehabilitation. The result is too many convicts newly released from prison going back in shortly after their release, all too often after having hurt or murdered someone, maybe several someones. We like to see wrong-doers get their comeuppance, but in stories where they do the story usually ends right afterward, and we forget that the wrongdoer's part of the story often continues after that point, especially in RL.

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #237 on: 28 Jan 2017, 10:29 »

We have reached [muffled Rashid theme in the distance] status at the moment. I'd be surprised if at least CWs chassis isn't reduced to some weird purple metal replica of the malaysian battle spatula.

But what Zoe is saying is completely true, the idea of just torturing CW is way beyond acceptable as much as we hate the bot. There are other ways to punish.

Side note why do I find those last 2 panels so hot this shouldn't happen help me pls
« Last Edit: 28 Jan 2017, 10:36 by osaka »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #238 on: 28 Jan 2017, 11:01 »

For panel 2, I honestly think a more satisfying onomatopoeia could have been used, something like "WHANG" (metal face to metal wall), or "KABAM" (Bubbles did it so hard it sounded like a gunshot).  Just me being picky though.  ;)

Additionally, that panel put me in mind of the youtube meme of repeating an impact video to the opening beat of Gwen Stefani's "Hollaback Girl".  Anyone care to animate it?  lol  :evil:
While another onomatopoeia may be in order, the wall is painted brick.
So perhaps a loud 'WHOCK'.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #239 on: 28 Jan 2017, 11:57 »

I have a feeling that Bubbles has probably far more ....... INTERESTING plans in mind for CW
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #240 on: 28 Jan 2017, 13:54 »

I know other people have remarked on the progression of Jeph's artwork. But I just wanted to point out how much emotion he was able to portray in the faces on the last panel with so little detail to work with. I think that last panel was about as close to perfect as he could have gotten and am very impressed (and moved).
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #241 on: 28 Jan 2017, 14:39 »

The next-to-last panel isn't bad either, with the "Why is her hand still there?" look on CW's face.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #242 on: 28 Jan 2017, 15:18 »

Welcome, Jackman!
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #243 on: 28 Jan 2017, 16:01 »

For all her faults, I have to feel sorry for CW here.

She just pissed off, enslaved, then attempted to kill an AI with military experience, in a chassis that was almost certainly designed to close the distance with Main Battle Tanks and open them like a packet of crisps.

The next few minutes will feel like weeks I'm sure.

I believe someone had suggested that CW would be found limbless with a partially disarticulated torso at some point.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #244 on: 28 Jan 2017, 18:33 »

Punishment for CW: She becomes the AI responsible for playing "It's a Small World" at Disneyland. She does nothing else all day but play that song over and over, and she can never get away from it.
I'm sorry, that's beyond the pale. It would almost certainly attract the attention of the Grey Goo Collective. Would you want Agent CreepyPasta visiting your work place?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #245 on: 28 Jan 2017, 19:02 »

Punishment for CW: She becomes the AI responsible for playing "It's a Small World" at Disneyland. She does nothing else all day but play that song over and over, and she can never get away from it.

Jesus. Remind me never to piss you people off.

I don't mean to be hurtful, but could everyone salivating at the thought of CW getting her comeuppance please take a step back, and try to view themselves objectively?

I'll be brutal here. You're discussing how to most effectively torture someone. Not just physical pain, but mental anguish. Sheer and unalloyed sadism.

Not as an unfortunate but necessary side effect of behaviour modification. Not "to teach her a lesson she will never forget". But for the deep and unholy joy you get from seeing evil get its most Just reward.

Maybe CW can be rehabilitated. I have my doubts. But if not.. has her behaviour merited the forfeit of all respect due to another sophont? Consideration, yes, that's forfeit. Perhaps a quick personal extinction should be her lot as her right to be is questionable.
You just contradicted yourself. Sentencing a sapient to death is sentencing them to torture for as long as they live. It is, as you put it, pure and unalloyed sadism. It's particularly vile for an AI who might otherwise live indefinitely.

But ignoring that, imagine that CorpseWitch were real, and that we lived in the QC universe. Consider the magnitude of her actions. She has committed the only unforgivable crime against an AI -- she has taken a part of that fellow-sapient's memory and removed it. CW has forever crippled Bubbles, and inflicted eternal, unending torture upon her. By killing a part of Bubbles, CW has literally condemned her to an eternal living death.

Is there any punishment which suits that crime? Is there any punishment which is sufficient to atone for that crime? Do we even care if a sapient who can commit such a crime can be rehabilitated? Do we even care about anything except their suffering? I'm not sure

Sometime, justice entails mercy and wisdom.  Other times, though, justice entails punishment. Maybe CW does deserve the worst we can give her, and does deserve it forever.

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #246 on: 28 Jan 2017, 19:41 »

Restorative justice? Would it be just if Corpse Witch kept doing good things for Bubbles until the karmic scales were balanced, like maybe when the last proton decays?

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Hiro155

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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #247 on: 28 Jan 2017, 20:49 »

OK, I am sort of disappointed by the comic recently. I would not have a problem if encryption was established as easier to break in QC-verse than in our world, but there was so much build-up to the encryption being pretty much impossible, this resolution feels like a huge letdown. There were entire comics dedicated to the impossibility of solving the issue easily, and then the issue gets solved easily. I assume the storytelling purpose is to establish Creepybot as unthinkably powerful (together with casual paralysing people and bragging - twice, at that - to Faye that she could not do anything to threaten the Creepybot).

But I am not thrilled at this, because this new character feels a bit... God Mode Sue-ish. Maybe it's my tabletop RPG experience, but a new character that can casually do amazing stuff and ignore constraints put forward by the setting, where such a possibility was not earlier hinted at, and the story is not, at its core, ABOUT incredible capabilities and their impact on the world... yeah, such characters are less than interesting to me, and make me more than a little wary.

Not...quite so fast there. I do agree with the feeling of deus ex machina Alucard there was exhibiting, a bit too spontaneous...but I don't think that we can say nothing like this has been alluded to. Consider two things-
(click to show/hide)

Apologies for the rant. Just a Thing that'd occurred to me while reading.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #248 on: 28 Jan 2017, 21:20 »

Up to now, I hadn't considered the idea of a legally-binding response to CW; I'd just assumed it was up to Bubbles to apply whatever remedy she thought appropriate, given that both Bubbles and CW are operating in an officially extra-legal zone. But if the Gray One is an agent of a separate, AI-only justice system, this has some strong and very negative implications for the QC universe.

What we seem to be seeing here is an AI justice "system" consisting of the rule that you can't unduly piss off the hidden AI hegemon, which is separate and unbound to the human justice system. IOW the Gray One represents a kind of AI mafia. Being hidden, unbound, and, from a practical point of view, unconstrainable by non-AIs, this AI mafia is inevitably on a collision course with the official order. If it is as powerful as suggested, this does not bode well for non-AI sentients.

The fact that Robot Jail exists suggests that the official justice system has carved out a space for AIs, including appropriate punishments for them (AIs in a human prison seeming not likely to end well). Theoretically, what CW has done should be sanctioned in the official legal code, with appropriate legal protocols for finding of guilt and sentencing. If this doesn't exist, then we're left with having the Gray Mafia deal with it, which seems unwise in the extreme.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3401-3405 (23rd to 27th January 2017)
« Reply #249 on: 29 Jan 2017, 00:12 »

I see a lot of people here saying that maybe the memories are gone because CW accidentally deleted them. But we have to remember that Bubbles had *asked* CW to delete them in the first place. The one who thought about encrypting them to keep Bubbles around was CW, *after the operation*.

Bubbles would never have had to struggle about keeping or deleting her memories for all this time if the possibility weren't there, since at the time she had wanted them gone for good.
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