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Author Topic: Disney and Pixar movies  (Read 1279 times)

LeeC

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Disney and Pixar movies
« on: 16 Mar 2017, 04:55 »

I am starting this thread to be like the DC and Marvel movie threads to help condense the amount of threads and focus them in one.  Seeing as both companies come out with 1-3 movies a year.  This will give us a place to talk about our favorite movies, post upcoming ones, and review new ones.

Coco looks to be the next D&P movie to come out.  It looks interesting!

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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #1 on: 16 Mar 2017, 07:21 »

I liked it when it was called the Book of Life

All kidding aside, some people are not happy about this
It's a little easy to see where they're coming from




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LeeC

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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #2 on: 16 Mar 2017, 10:50 »

I see the visual similarities but do they tell the same story?
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Neko_Ali

Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #3 on: 16 Mar 2017, 11:17 »

The last two comparisons are hardly fair, as both are depictions of the same legendary place, the land of the dead as seen through Mexican mythos. Wonder Woman and Disney's Hercules both cover the Greek pantheon... would you say one is ripping off the other, or are they just using the same mythos background to tell stories? The second picture, where they each realize they are dead, is so common in any story that involves that sort of thing it doesn't count for anything. They aren't even similar. Manolo is looking at his bony hands while Miguel is realizing he's a ghost. Two different ways of saying 'Hey, this character is now dead'. And the first comparison? Two Mexican males playing guitar? Really? That's to much similar?

As far as the links go.. I'm afraid to say I couldn't read much of the second one. The site design and eye-searing color combination make it difficult and literally painful to read. What I could get though that that the author was angry about the appropriation of Mexican celebration in culture, since The Book of Life was produced by Mexicans, and Coco is made by Pixar. It's striking to me as an 'I want to be outraged' moment. It's not for me to say why other people are angry though. But I am not seeing the outrage.

Other than a common link through the Dia de los Muertos celebration and imagery, the stories seem quite different. I don't think Pixar is ripping anything off here. They are telling a different story that shares some themes and imagery because of a common link through Mexican culture.
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LeeC

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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #4 on: 16 Mar 2017, 17:48 »

I'm with Neko about this.  The stories seem to be different and both movies share a similar culture and holiday.  That would be like being upset at the movie Christmas Vacation and calling it a rip off of A Christmas Story because they share the same holiday and Americana. After all they both have ruined turkeys, Christmas trees, a dad with a conflict related to a Christmas bonus, crazy grand parents, etc. But both movies fundamentally are different stories.
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #5 on: 17 Mar 2017, 06:32 »

Yeah, it kind of reeks of fake outrage, but it's just so weird how similar they are so close to each other

Here's the post from the tumblr
Quote
I’m glad you asked!

Before the movie was even being made Disney tried to copyright “Dia de los Muertos”. You can see the problem with that, I hope- copyrighting and attempting to turn a holiday that originated from poc (all the way back to Aztecs even) into a trademark to rake in cash. Dia de los Muertos is an incredibly important day to Mexicans for spiritual reasons, as well as just for values and culture. The fact that Disney/Pixar even THOUGHT to do that is sickening in my opinion and made me lose interest immediately back in 2011.
It’s a rip-off from a movie directed written by Mexicans who put their hearts and souls into the movie because they knew they could get away with it.
The plot of The Coco is:

A Mexican boy named Manuel Miguel loves music and plays guitar but his family is deeply rooted in its tradition of bull fighting shoemaking and doesn’t want him to be a musician. He dies, travels to the Land of the Remembered Dead and seeks out his loved ones and meets all his ancestors which him get home and finally embrace his dream of music.

Wow. Sounds a hell of a lot like the plot of The Book of Life. Sure, no love triangle, but everything else is the damn same.

Some may say, hey, who cares if the stories are the same/similar? Fairytales are retold all the time, people just put their own spin on it. Plus, we get more Mexican/Latinx representation, right?

Pixar/Disney turned The Book of Life down when Jorge pitched it to them.

Everywhere Jorge Gutierrez and Sandra Equihua went, people said a “hispanic story isn’t universal” and wanted to compromise his vision. Pixar is one of them.They saw The Book of Life didn’t do well and wouldn’t be getting its intended 2 other movies (which would have included a latina woman as the star) and said, well, Elena of Avalor (a spin off of a baby show about a princess from a fictional country who has a magic guitar or whatever and looks a lot like Maria Posada) is doing well, so there’s a market! Let’s try this” because they know that Pixar is unstoppable. It’s all about brand recognition and marketing. Pixar will never have to worry about having enough money or the opportunity to make a movie.

“I’ve been working on this thing for 14 years now. I’m about to turn 40. That’s a big chunk of my life to have been on this movie. It’s my lifelong dream to make it.”

Coco want’s to be a “love letter to mexico” and “ extremely personal and culturally honest”, but what about a love letter FROM Mexico, no research teams needed? Not to discredit the latinxs working on Coco, but for years the heads were the white director and a white producer who’s produced all the other Pixar movies. The Book of life was completely conceived by 2 Mexicans and they even got a Mexican producer.

Even more so, The Book of Life didn’t treat Dia de Los Muertos as a novelty. Jorge and his wife/partner Sandra put Mexican culture into all their work and everything they do, from El Tigre: The Adventures of Manny Rivera to new takes on european fairytales, to Tijuana knock-offs of pop culture to Jorge’s thesis film from the year 2000.

The Book of Life is HIS story, based on his own love of culture and the holiday, not a fairy tale that can be retold over and over. It’s very special to him not only as a Mexican but because his best friend dies when they were children and his mother taught him about the spirit of dia de los muertos and as long as you remember someone, they’ll always be with you. He proposed to his wife Sandra on dia de los muertos so all his ancestors and favorite people could be there. The part of the movie where Manolo leads Maria to the tree with candles is based on his proposal.
“ This movie is really who I am.”
Dia de los muertos and playing guitar isn’t the only thing about being Mexican. Mexico has its own legends and fairy tales and hell, Mexican/Latinx characters could be in something that doesn’t center around their ethnicity. Like white people get when they’re the standard.

The Book of Life wasn’t DIA DE LOS MUERTOS: THE MOVIE (which Pixar was basically going to name it) because Jorge is just one Mexican and he doesn’t speak for his whole country. It was a movie that took place during Dia de los Muertos which his original characters to show his love for the day’s spirit and, ironically, was about writing your own story. Not only that, but it had themes of sexism, man’s destruction of nature, that sometimes traditions can be wrong, and life and death and love. That’s all universal.

What’s gonna happen when the movie comes out is there’s going to be merchandise everywhere. There are going to be skull masks, sugar skulls, stuffed skeletons, sombaros, and the like sold by a multi-billion dollar company and the imagery will be tied to Coco, not Dia de los Muertos anymore. Instead of buying such things from Mexican craftspeople and artists, they’ll be mass produced and used as a toy and costume. I’m not offended by white people painting their faces for the holiday as long as they understand the signifigance of it. This doesn’t help explain the signifigance, it just places a Disney trademark on the imagery for their own profit.

I may be a bit biased because I had the chance to attend The Book of Life art panel/Q&A (x x x) and met him again at his art show in July (x x), but as I said in the linked posts, the book of life has the most heart and soul and detail and care I’ve ever seen put into a movie. The art is incredible and stylized and it’s amazing what they were able to to with 3D models and translating the style. It makes me sad no one caught the panel on video because the amount of symbolism behind everything is truly remarkable and hearing the people behind it talk about it is unmatch.

Here are just a couple things I love about Jorge and why I love him and his work and the movie so much, besides he and Sandra being some of the nicest people I’ve ever met:

“I saw every single one that [came] out and my biggest heartbreak is that I see all this glorious art, and then the movie doesn’t look like that!”, says Gutierrez. “The mandate of this movie was: Our ‘Art of’ book is going to look exactly like the movie. And every artist poured their heart and soul into that idea.“
didn’t trust himself to design the female characters, because “when a male designer designs a female character, it’s sort of a fantasy version of what a girl is,” he said.
“One of my favorite things about Mexican folk art is this idea that artisans are making it,” Mr. Gutierrez said by phone from Washington. “So there are all these imperfections, and every piece is completely unique.
The motif of anti-bullfighting and man vs animal
LA MUERTE
“anyone can die… these kids are going to have the courage to live”
No research trips because they’re too touristy and you can’t understand a whole culture from one trip.
Excuse me if I sound bitter, but I guess I am. I can’t help it when the animation industry and Hollywood is all about money and it’s discouraging when it doesn’t matter how hard you try or how much care is put into something. It’s not fair, plain and simple. It’s happened before time and time again, but I have a great connection to this movie and Jorge’s work has helped me a lot to accept who I am (which I’d be happy to talk about in a different post if you’re interested).

My thoughts may be a bit scrambled, but thank you for asking and I hope this answered some questions. I encourage you to look at some of the interviews I’ve sourced throughout and to check out The Book of Life art book, which explains each and every detail in the movie and designs and so on. Also, the op of the comparison post, @terracottakitkatbar​ has made some clarifications to their post.

Thanks.
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #6 on: 19 Mar 2017, 17:44 »

Counterpoint
Quote
Y’all seriously need to learn to fact check things you see on here.

1.) it wasn’t Disney who turned down Coco but DREAMWORKS.
and to those who STILL erroneously insist that Disney/Pixar turned down The Book of Life


2.) People getting mad at this:

Marigolds are traditional to our culture as well as to the holiday, ESPECIALLY in petal form. Not the best example but that’s like getting mad at different Christmas movies for using mistletoe.

3.) “Oh it’s the same plot.” Has anyone looked up the plot for this movie other than outright bashing it from the trailer?
“The footage, raw though it may be, spun a compelling story about Miguel, a sweet kid who loves music despite the fact that his abuelita banned music long ago, thanks to an ancient drama involving Miguel’s great-great-grandfather—a dashing musician—who walked out on the family. That musician, Miguel discovers at the start of the film, is his town’s most famous son: deceased film star and music supernova Ernesto de la Cruz. On the eve of Día de Muertos, Miguel breaks into de la Cruz’s mausoleum in order to borrow the famous skull guitar that hangs there so that he can enter a talent competition and convince his family to embrace music again. Once Miguel touches the guitar, he becomes something of a living ghost. His family can no longer see him, but Miguel can now see all of his dead ancestors—who look like fantastically decorative skeletons—crossing over a bright bridge made of marigold flower petals from the Land of the Dead. Looking for help and answers, Miguel travels to the Land of the Dead—a dazzlingly vibrant, stacked metropolis inspired by the Mexican city of Guanajuato—himself and sets off an adventure with trickster skeletal companion Hector to find the rest of his family, de la Cruz, and the answer to how he can fix this curse.” 
You know how insistent Pixar is on always making original films. So don’t you think that they would continue that?

4.) “But the white director who thinks he knows everything because he’s been to Mexico.” That’s right, a white person who is not of Mexican/Latinx culture can not truly KNOW our culture simply by visiting it. And Lee Unkrich knows this fact. Which why he assembled a group for the sake of making sure the movie is culturally accurate, rather than him taking on that role

you know, a team of actual latinx. Including someone who was a huge critic of Coco, and is a critic of Disney, Lalo Alcaraz. He is most famously known for his response to the action of Disney attempting to trademark Dia de los Meurtos (which will be our next point). It’s not Alcaraz selling out. It’s him working together with the movie so it’s not just Disney trying to bring in more Latinx fans but rather creating what Unkrich’s true mission: “a love letter to Mexico.” This team along with many other Latinx creatives (like Adrian Molina who was originally just a writer and then promoted to co-director) and a fully latinx cast (again, as insisted by Unkrich), are working together to make it a Latinx piece of media. ( http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/12/pixar-coco-gael-garcia-bernal-dia-de-los-muertos-miguel )

5.) We all know and got rightfully angry at Disney for attempting to trademark Dia de los Muertos. This was due to the similar original name the movie had. As expected, it received intense backlash to which Disney quickly revoked the request to trademark. Unkrich was the first to vocalize that this was a mistake. This even leading to that point most likely has to do with him being a white man not of our culture, but this humbling experience is what really knocked that message into him and he began recruiting people like the ones in the above point to make sure that the movie itself is true to the people, culture, and holiday, in ways he himself could never fully grasp.

6.) It’s about the Day of the Dead like The Book of Life. My response to this is easy: look at how many movies are there about Christmas, Halloween, Easter, Valentine’s day, Saint Patrick’s day, etc.

7.) Gutierrez himself doesn’t want it to be a competition but as two wonderful films about one aspect of Latinx that will hopefully lead to more in the future.

I love The Book of Life, and is one of my favorite movies if I’m being honest. When it first came out I was filled with such pride and joy for many reasons. One of course for it being a gorgeously rendered film, but for it being such a positive and beautiful representation and celebration of Mexico. As someone who grew up only seeing white main characters, with people like my family and I as only side characters, it brings me such joy to see more media being produced in which Mexicans are the focus along with our culture (which is agreeably much more diverse than what is being tapped into). We still got a long way to go as Mexico is still only one group of Latinx culture, but we are witnessing the stepping stones of Hollywood beginning to reach out and representing this community by working with people of those cultures. The Book of Life will always have a special place in my heart, but I’m not letting my love of that movie keep me from supporting Latinx creators that are putting out Coco. I’m finally getting the representation that I craved as a kid and loving it.
« Last Edit: 20 Mar 2017, 05:18 by Blue Kitty »
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ryangoslink

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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #7 on: 22 Mar 2017, 03:53 »

I am starting this thread to be like the DC and Marvel movie threads to help condense the amount of threads and focus them in one.  Seeing as both companies come out with 1-3 movies a year.  This will give us a place to talk about our favorite movies, post upcoming ones, and review new ones.

Coco looks to be the next D&P movie to come out.  It looks interesting!


This looks really cool, I  love Pixar:)
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LeeC

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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #8 on: 15 Mar 2019, 11:53 »

So the trailer just posted:

I am not going to lie, I was a bit skeptical and even down played the movie before. But this trailer...it looks good. There are elements that seem to be ripped from the original movie (which kind of irks me for some reason) but the more I saw the new stuff in it, it seemed more like a retelling (after all Aladdin had many iterations before Disney's animated film). There were certain scenes that look like it was tapping on the door of Bollywood. I have to say, I am a bit hyped for it.
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #9 on: 15 Mar 2019, 20:33 »

I'm hopeful for it.

we saw the preview for the new DUMBO movie.
they play THAT song.  had the wife in tears.
https://youtu.be/R4MCj3HROro

*she used to play it when she rocked our son to sleep...20 years ago*
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #10 on: 16 Mar 2019, 06:28 »

I'm definitely gonna give Aladdin a chance, the new trailer is definitely better.

Also based on the old posts, I just wanna say how much I ended up loving Coco. It's probably my favorite Pixar and maybe my favorite Disney movie overall. Although to be fair, I have good associations with it because I saw it a few hours after getting engaged.
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #11 on: 16 Mar 2019, 07:26 »

I'm hopeful for it.

we saw the preview for the new DUMBO movie.
they play THAT song.  had the wife in tears.
https://youtu.be/R4MCj3HROro

*she used to play it when she rocked our son to sleep...20 years ago*
I have this album and version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqir1zJ0C9I
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #12 on: 17 Mar 2019, 08:24 »

From what I saw in the Aladdin trailer it looks like a beat-by-beat recreation of the animated film. Which brings me to my always objection to the live action adaptions... why bother? Is Disney studios so bereft of new ideas or so afraid of trying something different that all that do is remake their old, popular films. "Only now with live actors!" Why would I want that when I could just pop in my DVD? Of course, that's part of it. They deliberately make it hard for people to buy what they want from their catalog by not having everything for sale all the time to create artificial scarcity. Remaking their animated films gives them reason to release more of the same thing knowing people will buy it again.

But yeah... I've not yet had a reason to want to see their live action adaptions yet. And despite Aladdin being one of my favorite Disney movies, I look at this one the same way... vague annoyance and disgust. They could be spending this time and money making new stories, but like a high school jock to peaked too early, they just spend their time reminiscing about the 'good old days'. It's not like they don't make new stuff. And they could be telling new stories with these characters, like Frozen 2. But they'd rather just remake it.

Also I'm sorry. Will Smith is a fine actor, but there is no way that he can do the role of Genie credit. He cannot hope to touch the performance of Robin Williams in that role.
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LeeC

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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #13 on: 17 Mar 2019, 10:29 »

Truly, but there seems to be a lot of new scenes in that trailer that is absent in the original. I don't think this is Will Smith trying to be Robin William's Genie. It seems more like his role in "Hitch" if he was a genie. Putting his own spin and his own take on the Genie (The "Make Me a Prince" part was pretty funny and seems more Smithy than Williams-y). Which I am fine with, because if they just make Will Smith impersonate Robin Williams, then the movie would be terrible because they have different comedic styles. There are some beat-by-beat scenes which do bug me, but there seems to be a few more dance numbers and even a Gala event scene...along with a giant Iago chasing them down in the sky. I am hoping it goes the route of Jungle Book's live action adaptation where there were similar scenes and characters, but so much new stuff that it becomes its own film rather than a remake. Plus I think it would be a breath of fresh air if they make it into a Bollywood-esque film with their songs rather than just a traditional Disney musical. That is just a hope of mine rater than a fact, so the biggest grain of salt needs to be taken from the ramekin for the Bollywood statement.
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #14 on: 17 Mar 2019, 12:39 »

Putting his own spin and his own take on the Genie (The "Make Me a Prince" part was pretty funny and seems more Smithy than Williams-y)

Are you saying Will Smith is trying a Fresh approach to making Aladdin a prince?
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #16 on: 19 Mar 2019, 12:53 »

I don't think it's fair to say that Disney are bereft of new ideas.

We live in age where movies either break records or flops. Everything is an Avengers or a Showgirls.

Disney are cranking out reliable, recycled old chestnuts that continue to make money.

In the meantime, they have spent the last few years having a separate, low-key second Renaissance, where they've got more experimental with fresh IPs, creating a series of what I think are legitimate minor masterpieces - Frozen, Moana, Zootropolis and Big Hero 6.

Frozen is now getting a sequel, sure. But that's four totally fresh properties from Disney in the last few years. I'm totally on board with Disney mortgaging their beloved classics as much as they want as long as they keep up a roughly one-a-year new classic rate.
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #17 on: 19 Mar 2019, 13:05 »

It's the circle of life  :-P
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #18 on: 19 Mar 2019, 13:30 »

How many other studios of Disney's size are actually taking any real chances?

Marvel are owned by Disney now too, but they definitely weren't an experimental outlet before that. Captain Marvel and Black Panther are both chance-taking movies I guess, but we got three Iron Man movies before we got to that shit.
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #19 on: 19 Mar 2019, 19:00 »

Zootropolis
Holy shit, I didn't know it was called this in the UK. Why the fuck would they give it a different title? Like I thought this was a strange typo, then looked it up and...what.

Also, Toy Story 4 evaded my interest for a while because I was kind of underwhelmed by 3. Don't get me wrong, it was amazing, but it was the weakest of the trilogy and it didn't seem to justify its existence like 4 seems like it will. The trailer got me pretty excited.
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #20 on: 19 Mar 2019, 23:24 »

I kind of felt the other way around, but I'm open to being talked out of that. What is it about the trailer that you think justifies 4's existence?
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #21 on: 20 Mar 2019, 07:20 »

After 3 I wasn't so sure about 4, but after watching that trailer I'm actually hyped for it.
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #22 on: 20 Mar 2019, 07:33 »

Zootropolis
Holy shit, I didn't know it was called this in the UK. Why the fuck would they give it a different title?

To play on the idea of a metropolis, rather than a utopia. Also because of trademark reasons, the Danish Givskud Zoo registered the name Zootopia in 2014, preparing for its 50th anniversary and reopening as Zootopia. And there's a German children's book called Zootopolis released in 2010 (which necessitated the film being renamed Zoomania in Germany).
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #23 on: 20 Mar 2019, 09:46 »

foreign Movie names are always something different entirely. For example, The Rundown was called "Welcome to the Jungle" in German. Yes, the German dub had an English title, different than original one.
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #24 on: 21 Mar 2019, 14:40 »

I get giving a movie a different title if it’s going to be translated and the original doesn’t translate well, but why the fuck would you change the title in another English speaking country? I’m not saying Zootropolis is a bad title, just why didn’t they call it that here, too?
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Castlerook

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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #25 on: 21 Mar 2019, 14:53 »

Its usually a trademark issue, to appeal to a different market or simply because the name just wouldn't work.
Take Avengers (2012) for example, in Ireland and the UK, it had to be renamed Avengers Assemble because of the 1960s television series and the 1998 film.
Likewise, Grimsby (2016) had to renamed "The Brothers Grimsby" in the US, because (i) the play on words and (ii) most Americans would not have a clue where to find the town on a map of the UK.

As for Zootopia, the Danish zoo I mentioned in a previous post, I think they registered the trademarked name in the UK, the details are a little hazy.
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Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #26 on: 21 Mar 2019, 14:55 »

I get giving a movie a different title if it’s going to be translated and the original doesn’t translate well, but why the fuck would you change the title in another English speaking country? I’m not saying Zootropolis is a bad title, just why didn’t they call it that here, too?

If I understood that correctly: Copyright issues? A lot of people might not realise, but copyright is handled by every single country individually. OK, admittedly, the EU has a say in that, synchronising things like that among the members, but still. If someone holds a copyright for Zootopia in the UK, but not the US, the US can use it, but not the UK.
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Tova

Re: Disney and Pixar movies
« Reply #27 on: 22 Mar 2019, 06:24 »

The Pirates! In an Adventure with Scientists! got released here as Pirates: Band of Misfits for some reason. No idea why they changed the title at all, let alone to something so meh.
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