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Poll

What hurdles will Faye and Bubbles face next?

Someone snagged the rental space they were looking at.
The building actually needs A LOT of work.
Bubbles takes off her armor
Black mold
The spare robot parts spontaneously gain sentience and assemble themselves into a limby abomination.
Each other

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Author Topic: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)  (Read 33176 times)

Gyrre

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So what'll the gang(s) get up to this week?

Sorry my fitst poll is kind of crap.
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jheartney

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #1 on: 09 Apr 2017, 21:02 »

Bubbles is absolutely correct in today's strip: as a courtesy to her business partner, Faye should have asked Bubbles before accepting Dora's offer. No, it's not a minor decision. It's worrying that Faye needs to learn this.

Faye and Bubbles, like any partnership, will need to work out the details of how their partnership works. There may be areas in which one or the other is given full authority to make decisions (Bubbles on supplier relationships, Faye on sales, for example). But they'll need to get this decided.

Glad to see Bubbles is ready to put a foot down when Faye screws up.
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Milayna

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #2 on: 09 Apr 2017, 21:07 »

Yeah, I'm going to have to come down on Faye's side on this one. This co-signing with Dora, is this something that Bubbles would disapprove of? Then she can voice her disapproval right there and bring it to a halt. Is it something she would approve of? Then whence the problem? In otherwords, she had the opportunity, right there on the couch, as an equal, to approve or disapprove. She did not take it.

If she wanted more advance warning: Faye's phrasing in the third panel is bad, but she's not wrong. She can't run every single thing by Bubbles (Nor can Bubbles run every single thing by Faye; they're on equal grounds here) and some things are time-sensitive and cannot wait for a meeting and debate. Did Faye have any reason to believe that Bubbles would not approve of this? I don't even mean a LIKELY reason; did Faye have any reason AT ALL to believe that Bubbles would be against the idea? I haven't seen any reason for her to expect that. If she (or Bubbles) believes that the other will very likely approve of an idea, then it's reasonable to go ahead with it - in fact it might get tedious to have to "rubberstamp" what the other knows full well they'll approve.

And, well, what exactly HAS Bubbles done in this enterprise? I'm not sure who contacted that landlord but it seems likely it was Faye. Bubbles did inventory and logistics calculations, which are certainly valuable, but not leadership-type things. It was Faye that made the call to the city for permits, Faye who said she poke around for a fab shop, Faye who's done all the negotiating...even with Dora, whom Bubbles had suggested they consult with. I went back a ways and didn't find ANYTHING other than "ask a friend?" that Bubbles has done of her own initiative. What is she doing RIGHT NOW to move this forward? Is she thinking of ideas? Helping look for fab shops? Securing other financial considerations? Looking for clients? Designing trademarks and advertising? Drawing up a business plan? No, she's sitting quietly, reading a book about succulent care. If she wants to be involved equally in making decisions...she needs to actually make decisions, or do things proactively to move forward with this. It isn't fair to leave all of the leadership to Faye then throw a tantrum when she does leader things or that herself is only involved in approving or disapproving the decisions Faye makes. If Faye has to sit on her ass, too, to make it "equal", then this thing will never get off the ground.

Now leader stuff is a skill, mostly for outgoing people, and Bubbles is not. I really don't think that that will be her strong suit, and that's ok, because Faye makes up for that weakness while Bubbles makes up for Faye's weaknesses. But, again, it's not reasonable to expect to be involved in a role that she can't or doesn't proactively go into.
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Gyrre

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #3 on: 09 Apr 2017, 21:15 »

Crap.

I just thought of a less broad poll.
You should be able to change your answers.
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TheEvilDog

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #4 on: 09 Apr 2017, 21:18 »

The thing is, Bubbles and Faye are meant to be business partners, as in they should both make important decisions together.

Only that didn't happen here, Faye made a huge decision without consulting Bubbles and just came in and announced it. Considering the manipulative crap Bubbles went through with Corpse Witch, then she does have the right to feel angry that Faye made a unilateral decision without at least talking about it.

As for what Bubbles has done or is bringing to the enterprise, well I would say in no particular order; a list of associated business contacts, suppliers, a customer base, experience and technical knowledge as well as equipment and the like. You could argue that Faye could have brought that, but let's be honest, Faye was the last one into the Pitshop at the Skate Park, Bubbles was the one who had all the established connections, arguably making it easier for herself and Faye to get the business from an idea to an actual business.
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brasca

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #5 on: 09 Apr 2017, 21:22 »

The thing is, Bubbles and Faye are meant to be business partners, as in they should both make important decisions together.

Only that didn't happen here, Faye made a huge decision without consulting Bubbles and just came in and announced it. Considering the manipulative crap Bubbles went through with Corpse Witch, then she does have the right to feel angry that Faye made a unilateral decision without at least talking about it.

As for what Bubbles has done or is bringing to the enterprise, well I would say in no particular order; a list of associated business contacts, suppliers, a customer base, experience and technical knowledge as well as equipment and the like. You could argue that Faye could have brought that, but let's be honest, Faye was the last one into the Pitshop at the Skate Park, Bubbles was the one who had all the established connections, arguably making it easier for herself and Faye to get the business from an idea to an actual business.

Agreed and Faye should know better that the last person Bubbles was in business with together has a lot to do with her current trust issues.  All it would've taken was a courtesy call. 
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Tova

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #6 on: 09 Apr 2017, 21:24 »

Yeah, I'm going to have to come down on Faye's side on this one. This co-signing with Dora, is this something that Bubbles would disapprove of? Then she can voice her disapproval right there and bring it to a halt. Is it something she would approve of? Then whence the problem? In otherwords, she had the opportunity, right there on the couch, as an equal, to approve or disapprove. She did not take it.

If she wanted more advance warning: Faye's phrasing in the third panel is bad, but she's not wrong. She can't run every single thing by Bubbles (Nor can Bubbles run every single thing by Faye; they're on equal grounds here) and some things are time-sensitive and cannot wait for a meeting and debate. Did Faye have any reason to believe that Bubbles would not approve of this? I don't even mean a LIKELY reason; did Faye have any reason AT ALL to believe that Bubbles would be against the idea? I haven't seen any reason for her to expect that. If she (or Bubbles) believes that the other will very likely approve of an idea, then it's reasonable to go ahead with it - in fact it might get tedious to have to "rubberstamp" what the other knows full well they'll approve.

And, well, what exactly HAS Bubbles done in this enterprise? I'm not sure who contacted that landlord but it seems likely it was Faye. Bubbles did inventory and logistics calculations, which are certainly valuable, but not leadership-type things. It was Faye that made the call to the city for permits, Faye who said she poke around for a fab shop, Faye who's done all the negotiating...even with Dora, whom Bubbles had suggested they consult with. I went back a ways and didn't find ANYTHING other than "ask a friend?" that Bubbles has done of her own initiative. What is she doing RIGHT NOW to move this forward? Is she thinking of ideas? Helping look for fab shops? Securing other financial considerations? Looking for clients? Designing trademarks and advertising? Drawing up a business plan? No, she's sitting quietly, reading a book about succulent care. If she wants to be involved equally in making decisions...she needs to actually make decisions, or do things proactively to move forward with this. It isn't fair to leave all of the leadership to Faye then throw a tantrum when she does leader things or that herself is only involved in approving or disapproving the decisions Faye makes. If Faye has to sit on her ass, too, to make it "equal", then this thing will never get off the ground.

Now leader stuff is a skill, mostly for outgoing people, and Bubbles is not. I really don't think that that will be her strong suit, and that's ok, because Faye makes up for that weakness while Bubbles makes up for Faye's weaknesses. But, again, it's not reasonable to expect to be involved in a role that she can't or doesn't proactively go into.

I don't think that it is entirely fair to judge what Bubbles may or may not currently be doing to propel the business on the mere fact that she happens to be reading a book on succulent care at this specific moment, as though she ought to be working on the business 24/7.

This is merely the latest in a series of unilateral decisions (including that of starting the business in the first place, I might add), otherwise I would agree with the rest of your analysis.
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foolsguinea

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #7 on: 09 Apr 2017, 21:34 »

#3456!
Sequential digits!

I was looking at Marten in this strip and decided to compare his appearance in #1, #1152 (a third this far), and #1728 (half this far). Still looks like the same guy, actually. Maybe a little different in #2304.
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Milayna

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #8 on: 09 Apr 2017, 21:56 »

If Bubbles is doing stuff to move forward that Faye doesn't know, that's one thing. If she's doing things that readers don't know, that's another. Since I haven't seen her do any leadership stuff, and this is a work of fantasy and conservation of detail applies, I have to assume that she hasn't done any leader stuff.

"experience and technical knowledge" are, again, valuable to an enterprise but they are operational things, not leadership things. Hiring, or finding people with experience and technical knowledge is; determining exactly what capacity the business will need them in is; setting up her own role - supervisor? chief technician? is; those all require consultation with her partner - but merely possessing experience and knowledge does not.

Bringing to the business "a list of associated business contacts, suppliers, a customer base," is also valuable. But has she contacted any of them? Has she determined what roles the business plan needs? Figured out which entries in her list are best for those roles? Which suppliers she wants to contact for which widgets? How much they need? Has she conceptualized any advertisements or an advertisement plan - radio buys, flyers, word of mouth? Has she contacted her potential customer base? Those are all things that she can consult with Faye and make decisions about...or begin unilaterally, if she feels she has the authority.

Merely bringing resources to an operation doesn't impart leadership; it's making decisions about those resources that do. And Bubbles is probably in a position to make more unilateral decisions about this than Faye is - Faye doesn't know anything about Bubbles' contacts. Managing the supply chain is probably Bubbles' province; financial contacts, permits, and spokesmanning is more in Fayes' area; and both of them need to work out their business plan and advertising strategy.

Bubbles coming off a manipulative situation is a good point though. I'm not convinced she really wants to do this, or is just going along with what Faye wants because Faye can be pushy. I don't think that Bubbles really has any idea of what she wants, except maybe to take some respite. In which case, she needs to make a decision and be upfront about it; is she going to commit to this thing or not? If not, she can't just sit on her resources, make Faye pull her along, and then get snappy when Faye pulls.
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mikmaxs

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #9 on: 09 Apr 2017, 22:11 »

Okay, fair is fair, this looks like it could develop into decent conflict. I think Bubbles is being overly petty (especially since Faye didn't say that the deal was already signed, just that the problem had been solved,) but it's not entirely unreasonable.
I'm cautiously optomistic that this will develop somewhere interesting and not be solved in a few panels. Slight contrivance aside, it's looking good so far!
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #10 on: 09 Apr 2017, 22:52 »

Bubbles does have a point, but so does Faye in wanting to 'Strike while the Iron is hot'.

I think that they will sort through this,but I can see it being Friday before they actually sit down and talk it through.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #11 on: 09 Apr 2017, 22:52 »

If Bubbles is doing stuff to move forward that Faye doesn't know, that's one thing. If she's doing things that readers don't know, that's another. Since I haven't seen her do any leadership stuff, and this is a work of fantasy and conservation of detail applies, I have to assume that she hasn't done any leader stuff.

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3451
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #12 on: 09 Apr 2017, 22:58 »

Correct response, Faye: "well, I mean, it's not signed yet."

Though I guess it's not surprising Bubbles would be hyperaware of power dynamics.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #13 on: 09 Apr 2017, 23:10 »

In other words, she had the opportunity, right there on the couch, as an equal, to approve or disapprove. She did not take it.
She did not take it yet, you mean. Bubbles was plainly upset, and went out to cool her temper. That hardly amounts to giving up, once and for all, the opportunity to object on other grounds once she has calmed down.
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Now leader stuff is a skill, mostly for outgoing people, and Bubbles is not.
Perhaps, but between a leader, and the led, there is no equality. Bubbles has objected to Faye's unilateral decision-making before. Faye apologised then, but went ahead and displayed the same behaviour again, ignoring Bubbles's sensitivities on the subject. Faye and Bubbles need to work out what sort of working relationship they're going to have, and whether Bubbles is to be an equal, or a subordinate.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #14 on: 09 Apr 2017, 23:30 »

The point here isn't that Bubbles disgrees with Faye's decision. She'd just liked to have heard about it before the deal is done.

In Faye's defence, since when has she ever been in an equal partnership where she needs to consider someone else's position and input? That wasn't even remotely the case during her relationship with Angus. Frankly, this is a mind-set that she is going to need to learn.

In Bubbles' defence, she's been the accoutrement to another being's business before and that didn't really end well for anyone. I can quite understand her unwillingness to let it happen again.

In Marten's defence...? Well, seriously, can anyone blame him at this point if he's tired of being the referee in his friends' relationship troubles?
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JimC

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #15 on: 10 Apr 2017, 00:16 »

Faye's list of stuff ups so far is such that Bubbles must be wondering what the hell she's getting into. I would be: indeed I'd be thinking of getting out fast. Apart from what has already been mentioned it was also stupid to get Dora's name on the lease before they knew whether they genuinely had a problem with getting the lease.  Hell, for all they knew all that was needed on the credit rating was "no bad stuff".

...judge what Bubbles may or may not currently be doing to propel the business on the mere fact that she happens to be reading a book on succulent care at this specific moment...
Especially as I'm damn sure a military AI will have a significant multi tasking capability, and she could very easily be sitting there on line discussing options and issues with a whole wagonload of other AIs. Would an AI really feel the need to go and see their lawyer/banker/supplier network etc physically? I strongly suspect not. I bet Bubbles can do all the business communication required just sitting in the chair: at least if it only involves other AIs.
« Last Edit: 10 Apr 2017, 00:25 by JimC »
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TheEvilDog

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #16 on: 10 Apr 2017, 00:29 »

Okay, fair is fair, this looks like it could develop into decent conflict. I think Bubbles is being overly petty (especially since Faye didn't say that the deal was already signed, just that the problem had been solved,) but it's not entirely unreasonable.
I'm cautiously optomistic that this will develop somewhere interesting and not be solved in a few panels. Slight contrivance aside, it's looking good so far!

Now, this might be putting the cart before the horse, but since when has that stopped this forum, but Bubbles might see this as an organic-AI divide that seems somewhat prevalent in the wider QC community. She has experienced some of the discrimination from both sides and given her own somewhat fragile state, it could be a case that Bubbles might see this as Faye being insensitive and not treating her as an equal partner, or even as a partner at all.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #17 on: 10 Apr 2017, 00:43 »

I don't think she sees it as an Organic-AI thing. I think she is understandably sensitive to having her agency ignored. She just spent several years in indentured servitude. Her oppressor was an AI. This is about Faye not respecting her agency or  opinion. Bubbles has no desire to return to a state of being someone else's tool. She's a free entity and should be respected as one.
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mikmaxs

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #18 on: 10 Apr 2017, 00:50 »

^All the above is why I'm giving Bubbles the benefit of the doubt here. She's just out of a bad situation, and has the right to be a bit paranoid and overly defensive.
The thing that bothers me more is her followup. Being annoyed that Faye made a decision without her is fair. Faye's defense (That she shouldn't have to run everything by her) is not very solid. But Bubbles doesn't respond by pointing out that, say, getting someone to co-sign is a really big deal, or that sending a text to check is not very difficult, or even that a delay is absolutely worth making sure that they are on the same page, she instead pedantically interpret's Faye's words in such a way as to get the most negative possible result, when she should know by know that Faye does not put very much thought into her words before she speaks.
(For the record, I'm reading Faye's statement as 'A certain level of autonomy from each other is required in order to make progress without excessive delay.' If anyone else thinks she means something else, feel free to offer up your interpretation.)
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #19 on: 10 Apr 2017, 01:34 »

Faye was enthusiastic because of relief, which is understandable.

But YEAH she should have at least called Bubbles first. Or something.

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #20 on: 10 Apr 2017, 02:43 »

Or something, yeah.

For example, panel one could have been Faye saying, "Dora has offered to co-sign the lease for us. This would mean that credit will no longer be an issue. What do you think?"
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #21 on: 10 Apr 2017, 02:52 »

Most of what I came here to say has already been said. 

I agree that Faye should have picked up the hint the first time.

But, Faye has always been fairly self-centered and she's never been in a true partnership-of-equals situation (that we've seen), certainly not in business. It's not easy. It's a lot more difficult than being either boss or employee, since there will be a lot of little things that really don't need the partners to agree, and you have to figure out what the little things are vs the big things. Faye has had no practice at it.

And now for something nobody has mentioned yet: And neither has Bubbles. Bubbles may well want that, but she's had no practice at it either. In fact, she hasn't had that much experience interacting with organic folk at all, outside of the military (which is hardly helpful if you're not going into another strict hierarchy) and the CoD gang. She likely sees Dora as "boss" and, fair or not, she remembers CorpseWitch and wonders if Dora is really any better.

I think Faye was right to tell the landlord a co-signer was available, in case someone else was interested in the space - but before accepting Dora's offer, she should have presented it to Bubbles as an opportunity not yet finalized, and asked "what do you think?"

After all, this represents a major financial commitment. Consider that Bubbles doesn't know Dora all that well. How does she know Dora won't suddenly decide to take over? Does Bubbles even know what legal rights a co-signer has? What exactly will Bubbles be on the hook for here? Again, as others have said, she's fresh out of a situation with a very bad boss and she has zero experience in the one she's getting into.

In short, people and AIs do screw up. It's a fixable problem as long as they can talk about it. I think Bubbles' "gotta take a walk" is unhelpful (maybe necessary, given that the alternative might be punching walls, but not as helpful as staying and not punching walls and talking), but understandable; in her mind her previous objection to Faye is probably still very fresh and she may feel very hurt that Faye seems to be ignoring it.
« Last Edit: 10 Apr 2017, 07:24 by Sullivan »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #22 on: 10 Apr 2017, 03:34 »

Yeah, I'm going to have to come down on Faye's side on this one. This co-signing with Dora, is this something that Bubbles would disapprove of? Then she can voice her disapproval right there and bring it to a halt. Is it something she would approve of? Then whence the problem? In otherwords, she had the opportunity, right there on the couch, as an equal, to approve or disapprove. She did not take it.

Agreed somewhat, but they way Faye phrases it doesn't ask for assent/dissent, she just states it as a given that this is the course of action they're taking.

The way things are phrased are extremely important to Bubbles, not just the two examples in this strip, but since her introduction; Faye being noncommittal about her coat means she looks silly, people talking about her height meanso they are intimidated, etc.  It's part of her character, not just "an AI thing" to be overly concerned with phrasing, for whatever reason we may or may not see.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #23 on: 10 Apr 2017, 04:29 »

Basically, I think that we can say that Bubbles is somewhat neurotic. She's nervous about how people will react to her; she's nervous about the possibility that Faye is ignoring her; she's nervous about whether she can care for a potted plant. She's someone who needs a lot of reassurance and communication to help her handle her fears.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #24 on: 10 Apr 2017, 04:50 »

Basically, I think that we can say that Bubbles is somewhat neurotic.

I'm not sure I'd go quite that far.
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blt

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #25 on: 10 Apr 2017, 05:39 »

Basically, I think that we can say that Bubbles is somewhat neurotic.

I'm not sure I'd go quite that far.

Maybe in terms of the meaning of neurotic as being mentally ill, but Bubbles is just about the definition of neuroticism on the Big Five scale.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #26 on: 10 Apr 2017, 05:56 »

I'm unfamiliar with that, actually.

Okay, well let's break this down a bit more.

She's nervous about how people will react to her ...

Does that count as neurotic when she has completely valid reasons for being nervous about how people react to her? I'm not sure it does. I'm no psychologist, though.

... she's nervous about the possibility that Faye is ignoring her ...

I don't think so, but maybe I'm misunderstanding this one. She's annoyed about being treated as a subordinate. That's neither nervousness, nor is it about feeling ignored.

... she's nervous about whether she can care for a potted plant ...

I don't see this either. She's rather heavily invested in it, more than one might expect, but she does not appear to be nervous about it in any way.

She's someone who needs a lot of reassurance and communication to help her handle her fears.

Well, she handled them quite independently before Faye came along, so I don't see that either.

I certainly wouldn't have drawn that conclusion from her reaction to recent events. I thought that her reaction to the way Faye is behaving was perfectly sane and not even remotely "neurotic."
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #27 on: 10 Apr 2017, 06:02 »

She's someone who needs a lot of reassurance and communication to help her handle her fears.

Well, she handled them quite independently before Faye came along, so I don't see that either.

Actually, she didn't even come close to handling them independently. She just hid in her cell, occasionally had angry outbursts and tried to eschew all but the most necessary social contact with others. Yes, Corpse Witch reinforced those behaviours but they were still there to start with.

I'm not saying that Bubbles is 'insane' in the specific definition or even broader terms of the word. What I'm saying is that she has genuine emotional difficulties (some if not all of which are certainly trauma-induced) and this leads her to react in extreme ways to social and personal pressures.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #28 on: 10 Apr 2017, 06:09 »

Yes, you are right for sure. She has emotional difficulties without a doubt, unfortunately.

Her emotional difficulties may well even interact with the way she deals with the disagreement she has now had with Faye. We will soon see.

I don't think that her reaction to Faye's unilateral decision-making indicates any kind of emotional difficulties, though. Her reaction is quite understandable to me. I guess that is what I was really trying to say.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #29 on: 10 Apr 2017, 06:34 »

Having emotional difficulties and being neurotic are not the same thing.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #30 on: 10 Apr 2017, 08:01 »

With respect to the poll, I'm thinking of just how much a 'fixer-upper' the new location for Faye and Bubbles' workshop might be. The moment I first saw it, I could hear the late, great Harold Ramis's deadpan delivery:

"I think this building should be condemned. There's serious metal fatigue in all the load-bearing members, the wiring is substandard, it's completely inadequate for our power needs and the neighborhood is like a demilitarized zone."
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #31 on: 10 Apr 2017, 08:25 »

Let's not forget this is the second time that Bubbles has called Faye out on this behavior, probably in as many days (or even less - it might be the same day!). I'd be pissed in Bubble's place as well, and I may also, as JimC said, be reconsidering the partnership. The storming out isn't helping, but it's better that punching holes in the walls.

Yeah, they both have much to learn about being business partners. Let's hope their partnership survives the learning curve, eh?

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #32 on: 10 Apr 2017, 08:35 »

So, Faye is able to get them the space that they both wanted and went to Bubbles to deliver the news and get input on it from her, but Bubbles is annoyed because Faye didn't run the decision by her first?

What?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #33 on: 10 Apr 2017, 08:52 »

Is the PAC model of interactions in Transactional analysis still a current means of thinking? I was just struck by how often Faye seems to play the "I'm mummy and I know what's good for you" role with Bubbles, going right back a long way. And here it is again. "How come she's getting upset when I'm doing what's clearly the right thing for her"

Its always revealing who you empathise with in fictional situations and Bubbles at the moment with  "when talked down to gets spectacularly angry, but walks out rather than start fighting" fits me like a glove I fear.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #34 on: 10 Apr 2017, 09:04 »

I was just struck by how often Faye seems to play the "I'm mummy and I know what's good for you" role with Bubbles, going right back a long way.

And here it is again. "How come she's getting upset when I'm doing what's clearly the right thing for her"

Great observation.

Remember, Faye is still pretty broken. There's been nothing to hint that she's really come to grips with her father's suicide. Her constant sass is a way of maintaining distance, keeping everyone a little bit at arm's length. Tough to have a partnership of equals that way.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #35 on: 10 Apr 2017, 09:34 »

The sad thing is, there may be no way for Faye to truly come to terms with her father's suicide, especially since he didn't even leave a note. She may just have to find a way to live with it that isn't self-destructive, and learn to open her heart to people in spite of knowing they may someday leave.

Sometimes there is no closure, except maybe in your own heart. Sometimes you have to accept there will be no closure and find a way to move on anyway.

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #36 on: 10 Apr 2017, 09:57 »

Bubbles: Ask Dora for help.
(later)
Faye: Dora's gonna help!

An oversimplification, and Faye phrased things poorly, but there's no indication that anything was done that wasn't reversible.

Hell, Faye could have been saying "she offered, and I ran right over to let you know we had an option!" before being cut off.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #37 on: 10 Apr 2017, 10:06 »

Does Bubbles have a phone? Or at least an internal interface that'll allow her to access/send texts? (If not, she needs to get one.) "Lemme run this past Bubbles" is all Faye needs to say, particularly before talking to the landlord. "Bubbles, Dora has offered to co-sign on the lease, which eliminates our credit problem. Is that OK?" Does not need to take much time, respects Bubbles'  opinion and agency, gets the job done. Absolutely necessary in a working partnership that partners maintain open communication.

Faye's statement to Marten "Back me up here" is also problematic. She's not asking for an opinion, she's looking for support. Against her own business partner.  Loud warning bells.

Bubbles walking out after objecting, rather than staying and resolving the issue, is also a bad sign. Both need to get a handle on this partnership thing.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #38 on: 10 Apr 2017, 11:02 »

Not everyone is comfortable borrowing money or having friends co-sign leases. It can ruin a friendship if something goes south.

Signing leases aren't minor business decisions, they are major ones. Bubbles is right to be mad that Faye isn't bringing up major business decisions.

I think this is going to provide a decent bit of conflict for a while. Faye, who has to control everything, vs Bubbles, who just got out of having everything controlled for her.

I can also see this flipping, right now Faye is wrong for making major decisions w/o getting Bubbles advice, but I could also see later on Bubbles having a fit over things that truly are minor decisions.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #39 on: 10 Apr 2017, 11:06 »

Bubbles: Ask Dora for help.
(later)
Faye: Dora's gonna help!

An oversimplification, and Faye phrased things poorly, but there's no indication that anything was done that wasn't reversible.

Hell, Faye could have been saying "she offered, and I ran right over to let you know we had an option!" before being cut off.

Yes, but Bubbles was talking about getting advice from Dora, who is a successful business owner, about what they actually need in terms of paperwork to start their business. There is a world of difference between "What do I need to start a business here in town?" and "I just co-signed a lease with my best friend/former employer and I didn't think to call you before I called the guy who showed us the space."
« Last Edit: 10 Apr 2017, 12:02 by TheEvilDog »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #40 on: 10 Apr 2017, 12:12 »

She wasn't running over to tell Bubbles first though. The first person she called was the landlord to agree to the lease. She cut Bubbles out of the decision to get a co-signer. In fact she never even brought it up. She went to Dora to talk about it and Dora was the one to offer it. The appropriate thing to do would be for Faye to call Bubbles first. But she didn't, she didn't consider Bubbles opinion on the matter or her position as partner. She just made a decision that would affect both of them.

If this was the first time Faye has done that, it would be one thing. But she has a history of repeatedly doing that to Bubbles. Making a decision, then expecting her to follow along with it. So far, those decisions have worked out in the end. But as someone who just stopped being a slave, then you can see why Bubbles would be uncomfortable with Faye stripping Bubbles agency away again, however unintentionally. Honestly, sitting down and talking about how they were going to make decisions is something they should have done in the first place. But Faye rarely thinks before acting, going for what feels right to her at the moment. And Bubbles avoids conflict like it burns. But if they want this project to succeed, they will need to have that talk sooner rather than later. Then stick to the plan.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #41 on: 10 Apr 2017, 15:39 »

She's talking about it in the future tense. She clearly didn't sign the lease yet, and it seems like Faye did run over as soon as Dora offered, even if she did assume Bubbles would be ok with it.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #42 on: 10 Apr 2017, 16:37 »

Bubbles wariness stems from what happened with Corpse Witch and her 'Indentured Servitude' under her before Faye came on the scene and is understandable.  Faye means well, but Bubbles fears being trapped in another Corpse Witch situation.

I that she and Faye once they've  had a chance to thrash things through, Bubbles willr realose  that that was not Fayes intention.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #43 on: 10 Apr 2017, 20:22 »

This whole dumb thing would've been avoided if she'd said "Dora's willing to" instead of "Dora's gonna". Well...maybe.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #44 on: 10 Apr 2017, 22:01 »

Bubbles is worried that she might have traded one Corpse Witch for another.
« Last Edit: 10 Apr 2017, 23:34 by SubaruStephen »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #45 on: 10 Apr 2017, 22:13 »

So,,it's either talk to Hanners or go to the Dump and smash Refrigerators

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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #46 on: 10 Apr 2017, 22:37 »

Guess this means Punchbot won't be a regular at Coffee of Doom.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #47 on: 10 Apr 2017, 23:03 »

If I were Bubbles it would also bother me that Faye referred to my credit rating in terms that could be considered insulting. I have seen nothing to indicate that she has any idea what Bubbles' credit rating might be.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #48 on: 10 Apr 2017, 23:21 »

I love Bubbles' body posture in panel 4. She really, really didn't realise that having friends means that you're not allowed to hurt in isolation and silence anymore. That said, it is significant that she should have (apparently without any conscious choice on her part) gone to Coffee of Doom rather than to the junk yard. I wonder how long it will take her to realise what this means in terms of the change of her own thinking patterns?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3456-3460 (10th to 14th April 2017)
« Reply #49 on: 11 Apr 2017, 00:58 »

Basically, I think that we can say that Bubbles is somewhat neurotic.

More Positronic to me. #3Laws.
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