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Alice will tell us everything that happened after the Blink

The Praeses will interrupt Alice's story just when it's getting interesting and finally reveal themselves

Church will interrupt and despite his appearance he's actually an eloquent storyteller

The Praeses will intervene, but it turns out they had nothing to do with the chain of events because it was the AIs all along

Gavia will be so irritated by what she hears she'll form an alliance with Pate and declare herself Queen of the Habitat and Pate can be King of Earth

[BenRG]

There are two major modern innovations which ameliorate the human condition more than almost any others: running water to wash your hands in, and vaccines to make your kids live past their fifth birthday. (Running water gets them past their first.) You can't have the second without the first, and Alice's town doesn't have it.

What does that mean? 60% of all children die before their first birthdays.

That's less than ideal.

Given the size and sophistication of the hospital, I think that you're making several unjustified assumptions there.

[Tova]

Imagine that.

[Undrneath]

Wasn't a major plot point Ardent "upgrading" the water pump? That means running water to some degree. And we haven't seen any evidence for or against them having vaccines.

[Thrudd]

Well the indirect evidence on the child health front is family size. Societies with a high mortality rate tended to have more children resulting in larger families. From what we have seen we can infer that with only one or two siblings that overall mortality is quite low.  We also do not know how robust the base humans are with respect to disease and injury in comparison to our own.

[brasca]

There are two major modern innovations which ameliorate the human condition more than almost any others: running water to wash your hands in, and vaccines to make your kids live past their fifth birthday. (Running water gets them past their first.) You can't have the second without the first, and Alice's town doesn't have it.

What does that mean? 60% of all children die before their first birthdays.

That's less than ideal.

Given the size and sophistication of the hospital, I think that you're making several unjustified assumptions there.

Indeed.  Even though Ardent and Gavia are more augmented than baseline humans the people of Earth are the products of genetic engineering too.  They might not be on the level of their ancestors 5000 years ago, but quite possibly they are still immune to most serious diseases and illnesses and without modern technology have a lifespan comparable to our own. 

[Is it cold in here?]

Hmm. Five thousand years is plenty of time for new pathogens to evolve especially with livestock as incubators.

One possibility is that humans were genetically engineered for maximum resistance to arbitrary and new pathogens -- but then evolution has been doing just that all along and today's humans may represent the best possible.

[A small perverse otter]

Well the indirect evidence on the child health front is family size. Societies with a high mortality rate tended to have more children resulting in larger families. From what we have seen we can infer that with only one or two siblings that overall mortality is quite low.  We also do not know how robust the base humans are with respect to disease and injury in comparison to our own.

No.

In a society with high infant mortality, the number of *infants* is high. The number of children who survive to adulthood? Not so much.

[LKR1009]

New comic is up!

I'm going to be sad when AG wraps up; I've enjoyed it.

[LKR1009]

Re: infant mortality

"The infant mortality rate (IMR) is the number of deaths of infants under one year old per 1,000 live births," so we are on the same page.

[BenRG]

New Comic Up
Okay... Now that is very much a strong Mass Effect allusion. The Praeses are like the Thorian? If so, then everyone is in more trouble than I imagined and it might be that Ardent and Gavia might be fully independent in thought for the first time in their lives.

[brasca]

Not quite a praeses, but at least Laridia is an emissary connected with them and a new character.   

While I will be sad for this story to conclude perhaps it will be open ended enough to begin again. 

[Kugai]

Clifhanger!!!!!

And  it's going to be interesting to see just how much Pate has underestimated the Praeses

[WareWolf]

I dunno, y'all. I can't think of a single interaction that began with "PLTHBPF" or "PLLRPP" that's ended well. And don't even get me started on "SPLORP."

[Tova]

I dunno, y'all. I can't think of a single interaction that began with "PLTHBPF" or "PLLRPP" that's ended well. And don't even get me started on "SPLORP."

PLTHBPF

[retrosteve]

However it's counted for these six now, it seems like it's building up to some confrontation with one or more groups and others, perhaps a revealing of plans, maybe a bigger picture.    Yet and still. Such as The Nightwalker's actions could have little to no larger meaning.  It might be The Praeses have not directly orchestrated most any of this.     

I agree. There's way too much going on here to wrap things up anytime soon. The Nightwalker had a purpose, and it (I hope) was not related to the Praesides.  The Praesides have a purpose, and I don't think they were the ones who made the AIs disappear.

And it seems to me that Church could be convinced to follow Gavia instead of Pate, considering that she's obviously tougher and more ruthless than he is. But Gavia's motivations, as ruthlessly as she follows them, are very conservative.  It's not a good ending.

We need to find out the Blinker and whoever the Nightwalker signalled (maybe the same guy) and it's not the Praesides.

[brasca]

Hmm. Five thousand years is plenty of time for new pathogens to evolve especially with livestock as incubators.

One possibility is that humans were genetically engineered for maximum resistance to arbitrary and new pathogens -- but then evolution has been doing just that all along and today's humans may represent the best possible.

Well the livestock from the past may also have been genetically enhanced too so diseases related to animal husbandry may not be a factor in this world. 

This notion that Alice has been purposely keeping these people in the dark was raised by Gavia before and she got defensive about it.  Perhaps Alice tried to elevate humanity back to the level it once was after things normalized post blink, but this ended catastrophically and one of the reasons she can't forgive herself about the past.  As such she's tried to make the people's lives as comfortable as possible in a world bereft of many of its natural resources.   

[Morituri]

Errrf.  I knew her name before she had even finished forming, and it wasn't Laridia. 

It was Amber. 

And now I'm going to have to look at her, every time she's drawn, and it'll take me a confused moment to remember she's answering to the wrong name. 

[retrosteve]

I dunno, y'all. I can't think of a single interaction that began with "PLTHBPF" or "PLLRPP" that's ended well. And don't even get me started on "SPLORP."

PLTHBPF

Don't get me started on Swedish PLOPP.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plopp

[retrosteve]

Hmm. Five thousand years is plenty of time for new pathogens to evolve especially with livestock as incubators.

One possibility is that humans were genetically engineered for maximum resistance to arbitrary and new pathogens -- but then evolution has been doing just that all along and today's humans may represent the best possible.

They might indeed. The immune system could easily get stronger, but when it does it tends to go autoimmune and start attacking things we like, like pancreases and organs and skin. There's also a fine balance between immune activity and cancer. Just cranking the immune system stronger can kill as easily as cure.

[Kugai]

Personally, I believe anything that starts with 'GLOOOPL' can go either way

[Method of Madness]

Strange that Gavia is still so loyal to the Praeses, considering they abandoned her.

[brasca]

Probably deep denial, but if the Praeses have been listening this whole time they cannot question her loyalty.

[Morituri]

Pretty sure the Praeses don't give a rat's ass about Gavia's loyalty.

[Neko_Ali]

It might not be loyalty to the Praeses but not wanting to sacrifice all the people in the habitats that they apparently are.

[brasca]

However it's counted for these six now, it seems like it's building up to some confrontation with one or more groups and others, perhaps a revealing of plans, maybe a bigger picture.    Yet and still. Such as The Nightwalker's actions could have little to no larger meaning.  It might be The Praeses have not directly orchestrated most any of this.     

I agree. There's way too much going on here to wrap things up anytime soon. The Nightwalker had a purpose, and it (I hope) was not related to the Praesides.  The Praesides have a purpose, and I don't think they were the ones who made the AIs disappear.

And it seems to me that Church could be convinced to follow Gavia instead of Pate, considering that she's obviously tougher and more ruthless than he is. But Gavia's motivations, as ruthlessly as she follows them, are very conservative.  It's not a good ending.

We need to find out the Blinker and whoever the Nightwalker signalled (maybe the same guy) and it's not the Praesides.

We've only seen a glimpse of what Pate is capable of so I doubt Gavia is more ruthless than he is, however, Church could abandon him if he perceives Pate as serving only his own interests instead of humanity's.  Gavia has demonstrated a willingness to sacrifice her life to save her leaders and to an extension her people so Church might just change his allegiance if he perceives her as a strong leader who serves the greater good. 

Pretty sure the Praeses don't give a rat's ass about Gavia's loyalty.

We don't know that for a fact, but will probably find out when chapter 7 begins.  While it seems like they have used Ardent and Gavia as pawns in some elaborate scheme it's possible that another player, possibly the AIs have been working behind the scenes all this time. 

It might not be loyalty to the Praeses but not wanting to sacrifice all the people in the habitats that they apparently are.

She said she was willing to sacrifice everyone if she thought Pate was a threat to the Praeses so unless all of her people are some kind of collective she's protecting her leaders. 

[Neko_Ali]

She said she was willing so sacrifice 'all of us' not 'all of my people'. Us in this case I think clearly represents the people here. Herself, Ardent, Alice and Sedna. The Praeses is not a being or a collective. They are the actual, living trees themselves that make up the colonies that the spaceborn live in/on. So yes, sacrificing four people to keep Pate from being a threat to her entire nation is a valid thing.

[brasca]

I'm curious to know if Ardent or Gavia know Laridia. 

Might be amusing if Gavia greets Laridia the same way Seinfeld greets Newman.

[anahata]

I got the impression from her introduction that "Laridia" has just been created as a sort of avatar for the Praeses so it can communicate with our protagonists. So Ardent and Gavia won't know her - she didn't exist as such before.

[brasca]

Probably, but we're almost halfway through this hiatus so I'm trying to think of things to keep the discussion going. 

[OldGoat]

Best not get cocky, Jesper.  You may be in for a rude surprise.  The Praeses have had 5000 years to come up with something 'way more badass that Church.

Speaking of Church, what's his first name?  Probably something he really hates, like Elmer or Cecil.  That awful name is why he volunteered to biomodification and augmentation into a super-soldier.

[BenRG]

Speaking of Church, what's his first name?  Probably something he really hates, like Elmer or Cecil.  That awful name is why he volunteered to biomodification and augmentation into a super-soldier.

I doubt that he has a first name any more than Alice and Sedna have family names. They are just AG-053, SD-101 and CH-045. Their makers never needed them to have anything else.

[Akima]

It's been bugging me for days, but I think Laridia means "parley" rather than "parlay", or is this a difference in American English?

Parlay:
verb (used with object)
1. To bet or gamble (an original amount and its winnings) on a subsequent race, contest, etc.
2. Informal. to use (one's money, talent, or other assets) to achieve a desired objective, as spectacular wealth or success: He parlayed a modest inheritance into a fortune.

Parley:
verb (used without object), parleyed, parleying.
3. To hold an informal conference with an enemy under a truce, as between active hostilities.
4. To speak, talk, or confer.

[Tova]

Oh, well spotted! I think you're correct.

[Daniel Patrick Moynihan]

Best not get cocky, Jesper.  You may be in for a rude surprise.  The Praeses have had 5000 years to come up with something 'way more badass that Church.

So far everyone's capabilities are (annoyingly imo) undefined, but based on the fact that the upgraded Valkyrie was able to teleport the superhumans I'd guess Church could probably be held at bay indefinitely even if they couldn't pierce his hide.

[Kugai]

Or drop Church in the nearest convenient Black Hole

[Neko_Ali]

Low solar orbit, if they really want to be sure about it.

[Daniel Patrick Moynihan]

There are definitely a lot of ways Church could be dealt with, and I would find it very satisfying if the standoff between Gavia and Church ended with Laridia teleporting his head into Pate's hands.  But that seems too abrupt, even if we are close to the end.

Re: Parlay.  I wonder if Jeph is making a joke on the parlay/parley homophone so Pate thinks there's going to be a negotiation, when really Laridia means she's going use Pate and the superhumans appearance (the winnings of their previous gamble in sending Ardent to Earth) to make another gamble by upsetting the status quo between Earth and Sky.  Probably just a typo though.

Old thought that I had months ago and don't necessarily want to resurrect the old thread for:  if this was all building to a Praeses invasion of Earth by moving the superhumans to space, was Gavia sent as a lure to neutralize the Night Walker (assuming it's dead/burned out and not just dissipated)?

[brasca]

That seems like a distinct possibility.  There really aren't many reasons to send her since she was no match for Alice and couldn't return with Ardent no matter how much she wanted.  The Night Walker first appeared before they knew anything about Ardent's upgrade ability so she may have been sent as as a target so it would attack her first instead of Ardent who wouldn't be the same threat to the status quo if he lost his then unknown ability.  What remains to be seen is if firing at the moon was something the Night Walker was programmed to do or if Gavia was also carrying some secret programming that she knew nothing about. 

[Daniel Patrick Moynihan]

Hmm. So is Laridia playing dumb (or created with imperfect knowledge of the Praeses' plans) or does this confirm that everything has been put in motion by a third party looking to stir up trouble between Space and Surface?  It seems late to introduce another faction with the technology and savvy to pull this off.

Knowing that Jeph loves Iain Banks I wonder if there's going to be a crazy twist/reveal, but I haven't read much of his other Sci-Fi influences and no mangas at all so maybe he's going in a wildly different direction.

[BenRG]

No great surprise: Gavia and Ardent have become 'contaminated' by going to Earth and are exiled for life. All for daring to be something other than what the Praeses have decided for them (ironically, in Gavia's case, to protect them).

I'm not surprised that the super-soldiers are forbidden to enter. However, what I find interesting is that Pate wasn't even mentioned. Welcome to the real world, Pate. You're just a sub-evolved monkey to them; you're not even worth the mentioning. I think that you can forget about your 'upgrades' right now.

What is really interesting? The Praeses are denying responsibility for Ardent's 'upgrade' special ability. This is either a lie or, as Daniel suggests, evidence of a third party who has been manipulating events for their own agenda. I'm pointing a finger at the synthetic AIs, by the way. They've been in hiding since The Blink and I have predicted before that they are still semi-actively involved with events involving the humans and post-humans alike.

[brasca]

Hmm. So is Laridia playing dumb (or created with imperfect knowledge of the Praeses' plans) or does this confirm that everything has been put in motion by a third party looking to stir up trouble between Space and Surface?  It seems late to introduce another faction with the technology and savvy to pull this off.

Knowing that Jeph loves Iain Banks I wonder if there's going to be a crazy twist/reveal, but I haven't read much of his other Sci-Fi influences and no mangas at all so maybe he's going in a wildly different direction.

I've considered third party interference a possibility since Alice first suspected the Praeses and although it would be late in the story to introduce the AIs we have enough background on their difference that it wouldn't feel tacked on.  Of course Laridia may be playing dumb, but if Cupressaceae has them where it wants it seems unnecessary and it's already been done before with Pate.  We only have Arden't side of the story as to how he was sent to Earth so Cupressaceae still doesn't know.  What remains to be seen is if Cupressaceae is equally ignorant of sending Gavia to Earth to bring Ardent back. 

No great surprise: Gavia and Ardent have become 'contaminated' by going to Earth and are exiled for life. All for daring to be something other than what the Praeses have decided for them (ironically, in Gavia's case, to protect them).

Well it looks like Ardent has some explaining to do, but if Gavia's nanotech could be removed before it can be removed again and so could whatever nanotech is within Ardent that gives him the ability to upgrade so it seems premature to declare they are exiled for life.

I'm not surprised that the super-soldiers are forbidden to enter. However, what I find interesting is that Pate wasn't even mentioned. Welcome to the real world, Pate. You're just a sub-evolved monkey to them; you're not even worth the mentioning. I think that you can forget about your 'upgrades' right now.

I doubt this would bother Pate because right now being a baseline human is the only reason he could be permitted inside.  Of course he may not want to risk entering without his bodyguard, but I think Pate has the wherewithal to know that without Church he's just an above average intelligent human. 

[Kugai]

So it looks like there are plans within plans here

Trouble in paradise methinks??

[TheEvilDog]

Trouble in paradise methinks??

No such thing as paradise, mate.

[DaiJB]

Jeph commented, "She seems nice".

THERE'S a good reason to get nervous...

[Tova]

Indeed. Thanks to Jeph, I will never again hear that phrase without twitching.

[Case]

"Ardent! Good to have you back! You may not come inside ..."

Also interesting how Cuprawhatsitsface rates their respective dangerousness ...

[blt]

And I think this may finally answer what Alice/Sedna/Church are too.  "Radically engineered ancient humaniforms" sounds a lot like they're biological.

[Tova]

Do you think so? Doesn't "humaniform" simply mean human in appearance? I don't feel like the question has been answered.

[brasca]

"Ardent! Good to have you back! You may not come inside ..."

Also interesting how Cuprawhatsitsface rates their respective dangerousness ...

Yes Laridia seems more concerned about the foreign elements than their known strengths.  She knows that Alice, Church, and Sedna are radically strong, but doesn't consider them a likely threat.  With Gavia she's more concerned with Earth nanomachines within her body.  And Ardent's upgrade ability is the cause of it and what concerns her the most. 

[Kugai]

Jeph commented, "She seems nice".

THERE'S a good reason to get nervous...

It's right up there with "How hard can it be?"