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What will Ardent's answer reveal?

Exactly what he said, a friend hacked the transporter console and he woke up on Earth.
It was actually someone no one ever heard of that promised this and Alice was wrong about the Praeses.
The Praeses are playing dumb and Laridia is just there to convince them they had nothing to do with Ardent going to Earth.
There's actually a rogue element among the Praeses in cahoots with a mysterious 3rd party.
Nothing.  Spookybot will wake up suddenly and realize this was all just a nightmare.

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Author Topic: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?  (Read 89340 times)

zmeiat_joro

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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #400 on: 14 Jul 2017, 04:13 »

Next: Arden repairs and upgrades Sedna?
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Neko_Ali

Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #401 on: 14 Jul 2017, 07:10 »

Unlikely, as he's holding her right now and clearly wishes she was better. If anything would trigger his ability, you'd think this would be it.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #402 on: 14 Jul 2017, 08:01 »

Well, Sedna's apparently conscious.

Also, Gavia appears to have gotten a case of transparent hair. (Jeph must have forgotten to color it in fully?)

And, interesting.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #403 on: 14 Jul 2017, 08:09 »

Just what sort of figures are we talking about here? How many scattered over how much of Earth's surface? It seems that Alice was correct after all, even though she didn't guess the correct culprit: The invasion, no matter how well-intentioned, has begun.

There is actually a pseudo-religious aspect to this, isn't there? An unknown higher intelligence sending Gifted individuals to the people to guide them, directly or indirectly, to an improved life. I wonder if there will be the historically-typical backlash from those in positions of authority whose opinions and assumed right to decide who gets what benefits were never considered by said higher intelligences?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #404 on: 14 Jul 2017, 09:28 »

Wonder if there are like minded guardians like Alice that weren't willing to risk them overturning the balance.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #405 on: 14 Jul 2017, 10:53 »

This suggests more supersoldiers, and that Alice and Sedna were not the only ones eschewing contact with their own kind.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #406 on: 14 Jul 2017, 11:04 »

And also strange, how did the other earth visitors get picked? Ardent and Gavia were under the impression they were travelling under their own volition, I wonder if they were brain washed into it or what?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #407 on: 14 Jul 2017, 11:05 »

Programming perhaps?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #408 on: 14 Jul 2017, 11:16 »

Why not send Ardent and Gavia down together?  Maybe a screw-up, especially if they were the first team to make planetfall*.  Or it could be deliberate.  If the Alice-like community guardian doesn't make her/him self known with the first arrival, a violent outburst by the second will make the guardian break cover and appear.

*I loved that term "planetfall" when I was reading juvenile SciFi as a kid and today I got to use it in sentence.  Huzzah!!!
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #409 on: 14 Jul 2017, 11:25 »

It seems then that however many Praeses are around Earth, however many seedlings took hold whenever, whatever is embodying those in the inner reality and sending them down is doing so on a large coordinated scale.   Them returning back doesn't seem to have been part of whoever's plan it is though, does it.     Perhaps this is the only set that has returned because they met up with one of or the main enhanced quantal, who reacted with some thought, determination and a particular goal of asking those she thought responsible.  Also had an idea of how to get into orbit, was pushed along by the intrusion of malevolent others forcing the trip, and assisted by a turn of events giving more of an ooomph than could otherwise reasonably be expected.    If none of the other pairs (or singles) even met something like Alice (assuming there's even more around than Alice and Sedna (and Church) in the first place) or something killed them or who didn't know about orbiters potentially around or didn't care enough to want to find out what's going on.  Then perhaps this is going to be the only return anyway.      Alice seems just moreso a random happening, that Ardent found the main one or only one, and if so, then the rest of those like Ardent are not going to show back up.   

Seems the AI would have to be the most likely answer so far, but why.  Amends, perhaps.    Do they know about Alice, or did they expect nobody would be there (or if there, able) to stop these technology-enhancing moles.    Which if so, all Pate had to do was wait to get what he wanted.   

Whatever Alice is, whatever they are, it would appear some q-entangled version of an bioengineered humaniform something or another, rather than an AI.   Their job being to keep some sort of order or assist those who do.     How many more are there, where are they.   We only know about 3 of them. And they all knew each other.

AI, Moon?   Might explain the moon signal, if those nightwalkers etc are like AI pets or something.   Maybe more Gavia helper types, some sort  of power source for the other, maybe expendable.    Hard to tell how many of the others are teams or groups or not, or why.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #410 on: 14 Jul 2017, 11:41 »

It seems then that however many Praeses are around Earth, however many seedlings took hold whenever, whatever is embodying those in the inner reality and sending them down is doing so on a large coordinated scale.   Them returning back doesn't seem to have been part of whoever's plan it is though, does it.     Perhaps this is the only set that has returned because they met up with one of or the main enhanced quantal, who reacted with some thought, determination and a particular goal of asking those she thought responsible.  Also had an idea of how to get into orbit, was pushed along by the intrusion of malevolent others forcing the trip, and assisted by a turn of events giving more of an ooomph than could otherwise reasonably be expected.    If none of the other pairs (or singles) even met something like Alice (assuming there's even more around than Alice and Sedna (and Church) in the first place) or something killed them or who didn't know about orbiters potentially around or didn't care enough to want to find out what's going on.  Then perhaps this is going to be the only return anyway.     

Perhaps on pre-blink Earth spacefaring technology was unevenly distributed (scattered even) on the (habitable) surface of the planet,  and Ardent & Gavia just happen to be the only pair within a few struthoweeks distance from an old rocket center?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #411 on: 14 Jul 2017, 11:58 »

Does a similar phenomenon" mean activity on the surface or personalities who had gone missing reappearing in corporeal form?  Since it doesn't appear that Cupressaceae was aware of what had become of Ardent until he arrived with Alice and company, I'm going with the latter. 

It is indeed interesting that they should all turn up in a relatively short period of time.  I'm wondering how the rest of the Away Teams made orbit?
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #412 on: 14 Jul 2017, 12:38 »

Perhaps on pre-blink Earth spacefaring technology was unevenly distributed (scattered even) on the (habitable) surface of the planet,  and Ardent & Gavia just happen to be the only pair within a few struthoweeks distance from an old rocket center?
Its not unreasonable to assume that the general idea was that the mission was supposed to involve Ardent staying on Earth a lot longer, maybe even indefinitely, and that his return to orbit wasn't part of the plan.

Seems to me, BTW, that the whole Church/Pate subplot was in no way essential to getting Ardent and Gavia back into orbit, since if Pate hadn't turned up then Alice would still have broken into the bunker and Ardent and Gavia would have been back in orbit on around the same timescale, although quite possibly not with Alice with them.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #413 on: 14 Jul 2017, 14:07 »

Does "a similar phenomenon" mean activity on the surface or personalities who had gone missing reappearing in corporeal form?  Since it doesn't appear that Cupressaceae was aware of what had become of Ardent until he arrived with Alice and company, I'm going with the latter.

I got the impression that Cupress was aware that Ardent and Gavia had, uh, left the building (so to speak) but simply wasn't able to question them about it until they got back. And since they're the first ones back, and they only just got back, that implies that none of the others have returned yet, but the trees know they're gone.
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OldGoat

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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #414 on: 14 Jul 2017, 14:45 »

Does "a similar phenomenon" mean activity on the surface or personalities who had gone missing reappearing in corporeal form?  Since it doesn't appear that Cupressaceae was aware of what had become of Ardent until he arrived with Alice and company, I'm going with the latter.

I got the impression that Cupress was aware that Ardent and Gavia had, uh, left the building (so to speak) but simply wasn't able to question them about it until they got back. And since they're the first ones back, and they only just got back, that implies that none of the others have returned yet, but the trees know they're gone.
Lariadia says, "Your are merely the first to return home."  If there weren't more arriving, I'd expect her to say "only."  That or Cupressaceae tipped its...leaves?...and knows more about the operation that it's letting on.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #415 on: 14 Jul 2017, 15:11 »

Others there are

Interesting it is
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #416 on: 14 Jul 2017, 18:30 »

Quote from: BenRG
Just what sort of figures are we talking about here?

How many Praeses are there? Gavia had a set of names she called for a ride back so we know of at least that many.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #417 on: 14 Jul 2017, 18:46 »

Quote
Should we judge them for doing what we made them do?

If Alice pulls out the "just obeying orders" defense I will be disappointed in her.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #418 on: 14 Jul 2017, 19:13 »

Quote
Should we judge them for doing what we made them do?

If Alice pulls out the "just obeying orders" defense I will be disappointed in her.

Why? It's obvious that each of the Super Soldiers has some sort of compulsion ingrained in their minds. Sedna has to maintain equipment, going out of her way to dig up weapons and restoring them. Church has to serve a commanding figure, seemingly giving him an outlet for his murderous tendencies. In the case of Alice, its quite apparent that her compulsion is to end any threat to humanity that she encounters (Gavia attacking the village, Ardent's upgrading of the water pump, Sedna targeting Ardent and Gavia, Pate at the digsite, Church when Gavia blew up the Valkyrie). Alice has subtly shown that she will do what it takes to maintain the balance and has been willing to use deadly force. She's a killer. So was Church. And Sedna. They were made that way. Made to fight in a war of such scale, that we can't even imagine the choices they had to make or the consequences.

So she killed Pate. Because its ingrained into her to kill a threat to humanity. Because Pate had dangerous ambitions and a willingness to go to any length to achieve them, even unleashing a maniac like Church. So maybe Pate had been defanged, so to speak. Would you have imprisoned him? Perhaps on an island like Elba? Put him up in the same area like Napoleon and just wait for him to escape. What Alice did was remove a problem before it could become worse.

And yes, she was following orders. The same orders she was following since the war.
« Last Edit: 15 Jul 2017, 07:54 by TheEvilDog »
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OldGoat

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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #419 on: 14 Jul 2017, 19:49 »

Quote from: BenRG
Just what sort of figures are we talking about here?

How many Praeses are there? Gavia had a set of names she called for a ride back so we know of at least that many.
You can take "every other Praeses in orbit" at least three ways:
  • Each and every one of the other Praeses in orbit,
  • "Every other" meaning one has reported, the next has not, the one after that has, and so on, or
  • There are other Praeses that are not in orbit.
It makes me wonder if Laridia is being deliberately ambiguous.
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BenRG

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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #420 on: 14 Jul 2017, 23:43 »

Quote
Should we judge them for doing what we made them do?

If Alice pulls out the "just obeying orders" defense I will be disappointed in her.

"Just obeying orders" has a completely different aspect to it if you have been genetically hardwired to need to have a commander and obey their orders (as Sedna pointed out the combat-optimised units had). For Alice and the other super-soliders, it wasn't a choice or even a cultural tradition, it was a physical and psychological necessity without which they could not function or would possibly even die.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #421 on: 15 Jul 2017, 01:01 »

I am somewhat torn about judging whether Alice executing Pate was justified or not. Narrative imperative dictated that he had to die. Bringing him to a court of law would have been nice, but
  • Apparently there is no international court of law available, nothing like the court in the Hague in our version of the simulation.
  • Local courts might not be able to hear the case impartially. What options would they have? A council of town elders? A council from the city in Pate's pocket?
Still. Not nice, Alice. Was it absolutely necessary?

Also, I am always a bit reluctant to judge war crimes committed by front line soldiers from the comfort of my arm chair. I don't think we ordinary people, unexposed to the strains of a prolonged war, are qualified to do that objectively. Admittedly that may not be entirely relevant here, but it does sound like Alice has, in a sense, been fighting a war for the duration of her existence.
« Last Edit: 15 Jul 2017, 05:17 by Skewbrow »
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JimC

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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #422 on: 15 Jul 2017, 01:10 »

If Alice pulls out the "just obeying orders" defense I will be disappointed in her.

That was always much more about victor's justice than anything else. 'Commit this atrocity or we'll kill you and your family instead' is a hard argument to resist. When its 'Commit this deed which isn't an atrocity because its vaguely in line with all the propaganda that's been drummed into you since you were old enough to understand, and by the way we'll kill you if you don't' then its even harder to resist.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #423 on: 15 Jul 2017, 07:03 »

Now I'm concerned that if Sedna is okay, Church might be too.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #424 on: 15 Jul 2017, 07:26 »

Pate had no problem killing every last one of them. "I'll have Mr. Church break Gavia's arms."

He didn't deserve mercy.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #425 on: 15 Jul 2017, 07:49 »

Now I'm concerned that if Sedna is okay, Church might be too.

Sedna didn't have a quantum-hardened spear punched through her brain. I suspect that the brain is the super-soldiers' only weak-spot. The only way to kill them is to cause fatal neurological injury.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #426 on: 15 Jul 2017, 09:49 »

Now I'm concerned that if Sedna is okay, Church might be too.
He's dead or so severely damaged that healing/repair will take a significant period of time.  Either way, Alice feels no urgency in dealing with what's left of him.

We know little about his imprisonment other than that "It took a....long time to break out," and that he was in there for about five millennia.   He could have been burned to a crisp & taken 4,000 years to regenerate and still remain within the story narrative.

If he does survive, the story thus far suggests he'll be compelled to align with a strong leader, presumably Alice or Sedna (although Gavia is developing, too).  Sedna's a very capable tactician, but Alice probably has more strategic ability.  She may be planning to have a rebooted Church available to use against the Third Entity if need be.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #427 on: 15 Jul 2017, 10:52 »

OldGoat says:
Quote
You can take "every other Praeses in orbit" at least three ways:
  • Each and every one of the other Praeses in orbit,
  • "Every other" meaning one has reported, the next has not, the one after that has, and so on, or
  • There are other Praeses that are not in orbit.
It makes me wonder if Laridia is being deliberately ambiguous.

Doubt it. Laridia has already said that "There are many Prases. Seedlings travel, and when they find worlds with life on them, they take root and begin to make inner realities."
So 'Other Prases in orbit' likely just means "those in orbit around Earth, not the others travelling, or around other planets".  We already know that there are other Praeses not around Earth. And the "every other" meaning alternate is silly, but even if you take it as gospel, it only halves the number of Earth tourists and doesn't change anything.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #428 on: 15 Jul 2017, 12:10 »

...the story thus far suggests he'll be compelled to align with a strong leader, presumably Alice or Sedna (although Gavia is developing, too). 
The compulsions were intended to control the superwarriors, so having them able to server each other would be spectacularly unwise. They ought to have a compulsion only to serve humans. Of course that begs the question, what is a man "...that thou art mindful of him".
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #429 on: 15 Jul 2017, 12:39 »

Now I'm concerned that if Sedna is okay, Church might be too.

Sedna didn't have a quantum-hardened spear punched through her brain. I suspect that the brain is the super-soldiers' only weak-spot. The only way to kill them is to cause fatal neurological injury.

He could still be alive, but it would appear that Sedna left her bone shiv stuck in his skull.  I'm not entirely sure where, but it could be a part of the brain that won't allow him to function as long as the knife is there.  As such he could be comatose until it's removed which might be for the best considering it would only be a matter of time before he'd find another Pate to follow. 
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #430 on: 15 Jul 2017, 14:38 »

Quote
Should we judge them for doing what we made them do?

If Alice pulls out the "just obeying orders" defense I will be disappointed in her.

"Just obeying orders" has a completely different aspect to it if you have been genetically hardwired to need to have a commander and obey their orders (as Sedna pointed out the combat-optimised units had). For Alice and the other super-soliders, it wasn't a choice or even a cultural tradition, it was a physical and psychological necessity without which they could not function or would possibly even die.

Alice herself feels culpable. Sedna said something to the effect "You haven't forgiven yourself in five thousand years".
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #431 on: 16 Jul 2017, 18:47 »

Jeph's new QC blurb says AG should end this week. I'm not ready. :'(

Any final wishes for the comic?

I want Church's good eye to open up, years later, as a "to be continued."
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #432 on: 16 Jul 2017, 18:49 »

Hold onto you breeches, we're looking at the last week of Alice Grove.

If all goes according to plan.

(And I want a Beneath the Planet of the Apes ending!)
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #433 on: 16 Jul 2017, 21:22 »

Hold onto you breeches, we're looking at the last week of Alice Grove.

If all goes according to plan.
I hope Jeph proves me wrong, but if he does that he'll leave more story lines with slap-dash endings than Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.  (I've always wanted to know about Neville Longbottom's transformation from hopeless dweeb to guerilla general.)
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #434 on: 16 Jul 2017, 22:58 »

I also am rather doubtful of the story wrapping up in a week's worth of comics without a ton of questions left unanswered.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #435 on: 16 Jul 2017, 23:05 »

Yeah, I'm expecting a "To Be Continued..." with a one-panel hook for 'Book 2'.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #436 on: 17 Jul 2017, 05:31 »

Given that we'd have to be answering a question per panel with all the current loose threads I'll admit I'm not optimistic.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #437 on: 17 Jul 2017, 05:47 »

The last few comics have become walls o' text, which don't lend well to it wrapping up well...
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #438 on: 17 Jul 2017, 05:47 »

Or we might not get the answers we want. Jeph might have to decided to leave the whole story a mystery, in that we only know slivers of history due to the perspective of the characters.

Or someone might decide "Eh, fuck it" and blow up the Praeses.

And Alice Grove ends with Bobby Ewing stepping out of the shower.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #439 on: 17 Jul 2017, 05:58 »

Church sinks his entropy and destroys the universe, perhaps?
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BenRG

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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #440 on: 17 Jul 2017, 06:03 »

GAME OVER
Completion Stats:
Main storyline: 67%
Character arcs:
  • Alice - 33%
  • Ardent - 45%
  • Gavia - 33%
  • Sedna - 10%
Equipment Unlocked - 20%
Items Located - 8%
Side Quests - 12%

* NEW GAME * LOAD GAME * OPTIONS * CREDITS * CONTACT US *
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BenRG

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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #441 on: 17 Jul 2017, 08:51 »

New Comic
Yeah, this is the work of someone well-intentioned but short-sighted. There will be chaos, at least in the short term.

I guess this leaves Alice with only one choice to fulfil her self-chosen directive to serve the best interests of humankind - the only viable one anyway, given that there is no way of knowing who is 'infected' with the upgrade virus - and that is to be a leader.

It is a fitting punishment for her sins.
« Last Edit: 17 Jul 2017, 09:01 by BenRG »
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derech

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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #442 on: 17 Jul 2017, 08:58 »

They apparently knew Ardent had gone missing earlier on, but seemingly not to where.   Given the question, they didn't know how he got to wherever he went missing to.  (25 Jun)    They also didn't seem to know (or at least had no record of) even becoming embodied/leaving (2 Jul).

Yes almost certainly all the Praeses in orbit are all the operational current deployed ones for this system.  At least those doing some sort of reality implementation.   Seedlings, deployed ones not working on this, things not around here, they wouldn't be applicable to the matter.   Praeses in orbit as all that matters as to what could or would report on the similar phenomenon.   Generically,  assuming others that went missing were also embodied and transferred.  That it's extrapolation.  Unless they have some way to find (see, track, monitor, locate) whoever is not properly within the inner reality now that they have a place to potentially look.   
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #443 on: 17 Jul 2017, 09:00 »

So Ardent was presumably engineered to be so randy!  He was an update dispersal mechanism*.

* I most often use that term in the sentence: "My dog is a couch-grass seed dispersal mechanism".
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #444 on: 17 Jul 2017, 09:02 »

If the end of Alice Grove is just a tonne of exposition that wraps everything up I'll be very disappointed.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #445 on: 17 Jul 2017, 09:27 »

So Ardent was presumably engineered to be so randy!  He was an update dispersal mechanism*.

* I most often use that term in the sentence: "My dog is a couch-grass seed dispersal mechanism".

Well, of the various things Cora Goodwell *could* have got from Ardent, magic nanotech is definitely one of the better ones.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #446 on: 17 Jul 2017, 09:27 »

I would like to reiterate my previous point of too much too soon. Whether or not the Praeses intended this to happen, you now have an unready population that are about to gain tremendous power without the knowledge to use them nor the discipline that comes from earning that knowledge.

They've just planted the seeds of another devastating stage in humanity's history. If humanity survives.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #447 on: 17 Jul 2017, 09:28 »

If the end of Alice Grove is just a tonne of exposition that wraps everything up I'll be very disappointed.

It looks like that's exactly what will happen, but probably with still quite a few strands left unanswered.
Although I was hoping for AG to continue longer, I definitely understand Jeph for wanting to wrap it up. I mean, it was just a stretch goal and he still kept the comic going for 3 years! As a side-project with low-ish number of followers (and thus not generating much if any income, not an unimportant aspect for a profesisonal web-artist), that's pretty good!

Yes, tons of exposition may not the greatest way to finish such an ambitious story, but it's still a pretty good effort compared to, say, Teahouse, where they simply suddenly stopped the comic and wrote a couple of paragraphs telling us the rest of the story.

Since he apparently had the whole story planned out from early on, I wonder if he really intended to be wrapping it up the way he is. I doubt it, considering the immense difference between the glacial initial pace of the story compared to the much faster pace the past months.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #448 on: 17 Jul 2017, 09:36 »

This feels a little like Jeph has either gotten tired of writing AG or developed writers block and is trying to wrap it up quickly.
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Re: Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
« Reply #449 on: 17 Jul 2017, 09:40 »

Or this was an experiment in storytelling and artistic style that has run its course.
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