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A genuine like-for-like replacement;

A Union Robotics repair job (with some enthusiasm-created customisations);

Something horribly primitive that Brun loves (A pincer or something);

Something horribly advanced that creeps everyone out (Biomimicry to a very high degree);

Something military-grade sourced from a dodgy vendor on eBay (with such gimmicks as a magnetic clamp, a laser gun and spy sensors);

He doesn't need a replacement; he has two or three perfectly good spares at home;

Emily grows a new bio-hand using something she whipped up in Comp Sci class;

A spooky second-hand robo-hand that seems to have its own personality... and agenda!

Other (please specify in a comment)

[Neko_Ali]

Clinton needs to start wearing a cover on the hand. It doesn't have to be flesh colored though. It could be a shiny chrome covering or bright red, or have flame decals on it. It can be anything he wants it to be, even a printed replica of the bare metal hand.

[Akima]

I think it is the curse of the modern concept of masculinity that men are limited in the way that they can express themselves to each other so that they are not considered 'gay'.

Mmm... Clearly Clinton should have said "jolly decent chap" instead of "sweetheart"... 

[TinPenguin]

Clinton needs to start wearing a cover on the hand. It doesn't have to be flesh colored though. It could be a shiny chrome covering or bright red, or have flame decals on it. It can be anything he wants it to be, even a printed replica of the bare metal hand.

Hm, but then people might not recognise him with a bright red hand.

[brasca]

Clinton needs to start wearing a cover on the hand. It doesn't have to be flesh colored though. It could be a shiny chrome covering or bright red, or have flame decals on it. It can be anything he wants it to be, even a printed replica of the bare metal hand.

Considering that May had a choice in what colors she could change her face to I don't see why they wouldn't have some options. 

[DSL]

I suppose Clinton could do anything from a custom-made, custom-graphics Proper Waterproof Covering (TM) to cheaping out and buying a box of latex gloves.
Though he'd better be careful about Autonomous Mode for a while. Thing's gonna be pissed..

[MrNumbers]

Yeah, a see-through covering would be an option, wouldn't it?

[flondrix]

Yeah, a see-through covering would be an option, wouldn't it?

It would look pretty crappy once it got scuffed up.

Flexible materials tend to be disappointingly mortal.

[OldGoat]

Clinton needs to start wearing a cover on the hand. It doesn't have to be flesh colored though. It could be a shiny chrome covering or bright red, or have flame decals on it. It can be anything he wants it to be, even a printed replica of the bare metal hand.

Hm, but then people might not recognise him with a bright red hand.

Genealogy check - Are either of the Augustus sib's maternal grandparents O'Neills or O'Donnghailes?

[Dal Gurak]

Clinton needs to start wearing a cover on the hand. It doesn't have to be flesh colored though. It could be a shiny chrome covering or bright red, or have flame decals on it. It can be anything he wants it to be, even a printed replica of the bare metal hand.

Hm, but then people might not recognise him with a bright red hand.

Genealogy check - Are either of the Augustus sib's maternal grandparents O'Neills or O'Donnghailes?

Dang.  I was feeling proud of myself for thinking of this song, but your reference totally outdoes mine.  Suppose I'll still share, since the song is cool.

[Is it cold in here?]

Uh oh. If Renee is a snot to Claire, Marten might get mad.

I had trouble imagining this at first but then it gave me a chill when I thought about the ninja monks.

[A Duck]

I'm more worried about Renee and Faye. Suppose Faye realizes Renee is Angus' ex and mentions that. Renee then goes on to say how much of an ass Angus is, assuming Faye would join her.

Since Faye's breakup with Angus was due to external circumstances, there's no reason for her to thing anything bad of him, that might set things off a bit.

I mean, Angus hasn't even been mentioned since the break up, and that is a character that had been around for a long, LONG time.

[OldGoat]

Dang.  I was feeling proud of myself for thinking of this song, but your reference totally outdoes mine.  Suppose I'll still share, since the song is cool.

I wasn't familiar with Nick Cave.  This is delightfully creepy - thank you!

[Ztyx]

Clinton needs to start wearing a cover on the hand. It doesn't have to be flesh colored though. It could be a shiny chrome covering or bright red, or have flame decals on it. It can be anything he wants it to be, even a printed replica of the bare metal hand.

Hm, but then people might not recognise him with a bright red hand.

More like if he gets a red right hand people will think he's a Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds lover. 

[hedgie]

Or just obsessed with Paradise Lost.

[A Duck]

Clinton, soon

[Rincewind]

Dang.  I was feeling proud of myself for thinking of this song, but your reference totally outdoes mine.  Suppose I'll still share, since the song is cool.

I wasn't familiar with Nick Cave.  This is delightfully creepy - thank you!

It's on disc called "Songs in the Key of X" music inspired by the show X-files.  Sheryl Crow's "On the Outside" is pretty much my theme song. Most of the tracks have an eerie/creepy feel to them.
https://www.discogs.com/Various-The-X-Files-Songs-In-The-Key-Of-X/release/487195

[sitnspin]

It was originally released on the Nick Cave album Let Love In.

[Jakk Frost]

Annnnnnnnd that reaction is precisely why most guys don't talk to each other like that.

[Neko_Ali]

No. Toxic masculinity is why guys don't talk to each other like that. Viewing accidental flirting or paying a sincere compliment being seen as a sign of being gay and therefore a bad thing is why guys don't talk to each other like that. Fragile egos and fear of being ostracized are why guys don't talk to each other like that. Two girls thinking they were cute and having a little chuckle is not the reason.

[TheEvilDog]

Funny story - before Oscar Wilde's trial for gross indecency, men of the period used to walk around, holding hands and acting more affectionate towards each other. It was not uncommon to see soldiers walk through Hyde Park. Because the trial was such a high profile, it changed the gender mindset overnight.

Wait...that's not funny.

That's just fucking tragic.

[Kugai]

He should wear a leather glove

Leather gloves are cool



I very muxh doubt the SS Ellioton will ever leave the slipway, let alone sail.

[St.Clair]

No. Toxic masculinity is why guys don't talk to each other like that. Viewing accidental flirting or paying a sincere compliment being seen as a sign of being gay and therefore a bad thing is why guys don't talk to each other like that. Fragile egos and fear of being ostracized are why guys don't talk to each other like that. Two girls thinking they were cute and having a little chuckle is not the reason.

While all this is true, and at the risk of taking something intended as a joke too seriously - is there a line or case where sexualizing two people with no actual attraction to each other, and deriving [ amusement, enjoyment, gratification, satisfaction ] from their reaction to their finding out about that, becomes okay?

tl;dr - "Oh, I was just thinking about the two of you fucking.  ... And the face you just made, that was great too."

[Neko_Ali]

Except that isn't what happened, not even close. Renee said 'accidentally flirt'.

[Tova]

St.Clair was presumably referring to Claire shipping anything that moves, not Renee's reaction.

[St.Clair]

Yeah.  Not really a fan of shipping in general (and fandom's obsession with it), and when it's of "real" people (in context), personally known to the shipper(s) even...

[shanejayell]

Does anyone else want Clinton to get a mock chainsaw and do Evil Dead for halloween?   

[Oenone]

I'm more worried about Renee and Faye. Suppose Faye realizes Renee is Angus' ex and mentions that. Renee then goes on to say how much of an ass Angus is, assuming Faye would join her.

Since Faye's breakup with Angus was due to external circumstances, there's no reason for her to thing anything bad of him, that might set things off a bit.

I mean, Angus hasn't even been mentioned since the break up, and that is a character that had been around for a long, LONG time.

I'll do you one better. What if Faye doesn't realize Renee is the "crazy" ex Angus mentioned, because Renee seems so chill? She accidentally jokes about Angus having a thing for deeply broken bullies, Renee gets all big eyed because wtf is that what he THOUGHT of her... and then out of no where, Brun is all I'm not sure what you said but you need to leave my friend alone!!!

[MrNumbers]

On fiction shipping;

As a writerly authorly fellow, shipping's great. You hypothesize how two personalities interact deeply, long term. That's the basic fundamental core of all human drama right there. It's something most people relate to or identify with at some level -- if you're doing it right, anyway -- and it's just fantastic character exercise work.

It's like a chemistry experiment, seeing how they bubble, fizz and react.

It, by definition, doesn't hurt anyone. Perhaps you disagree with the mindset of someone who enjoys the exercise? Sure. But it's damn fun for those of us who do like it, a free and infinite vice unlikely to harm mind, body or soul, mine or yours.

On real life people shipping:

That shit can affect real actual people, and as much harm can come from something done for someone as to someone. Not saying don't think about it, because thought policing is bullshit, but don't act on it or talk about it. Rumours still suck. Highschool never ends.

[pwhodges]

In this forum, we try to show the same respect to the fictional characters as we do to real people.  It's a form of practice for real life, perhaps, but more importantly it's also true that real people can be hurt by the treatment of fictional people that they identify with in some manner.

[Drunken Hamster]

No. Toxic masculinity is why guys don't talk to each other like that. Viewing accidental flirting or paying a sincere compliment being seen as a sign of being gay and therefore a bad thing is why guys don't talk to each other like that. Fragile egos and fear of being ostracized are why guys don't talk to each other like that. Two girls thinking they were cute and having a little chuckle is not the reason.

"Toxic Masculinity"

Try Toxic SJW. Oh, wait. You already have.

Anyway, to be on topic, in such an advanced world, where a seemingly full naturally functioning bionic hand would only cost 250 to fix being crushed and repair the neglect from not having a covering; Wouldn't you think it'd be sealed against that stuff as is??

Not to mention strong enough to withstand a simple friggen handshake????

{{Side theory, Elliot is a Radically Engineered Ancient Humaniform just like Alice, Sedna, and Mr. Church from Alice Grove.}}

{{OOOHH, DOUBLE SIDE THEORY, Elliot IS Mr. Church. As, like, a sleeper agent or something. Or maybe he's Mr. Church before he became Mr. Church. Like, before he went crazy or whatever.}

[BenRG]

Anyway, to be on topic, in such an advanced world, where a seemingly full naturally functioning bionic hand would only cost 250 to fix being crushed and repair the neglect from not having a covering; Wouldn't you think it'd be sealed against that stuff as is??

Not at all. Think of it from a retail perspective. The actual hand (the mechanism and superstructure is more or less common to all customers of that body type. The covering material is an aethetic customisation. Additionally, as said covering probably isn't as robust as the superstructure, it will almost certainly need to be replaced. Also, I can imagine people wanting a different cover for different moods or circumstances. So having the covering as a separate 'glove' makes sense on many levels.

[Drunken Hamster]

Anyway, to be on topic, in such an advanced world, where a seemingly full naturally functioning bionic hand would only cost 250 to fix being crushed and repair the neglect from not having a covering; Wouldn't you think it'd be sealed against that stuff as is??

Not at all. Think of it from a retail perspective. The actual hand (the mechanism and superstructure) is more or less common to all customers of that body type. The covering material is an aesthetic customization. Additionally, as said covering probably isn't as robust as the superstructure, it will almost certainly need to be replaced. Also, I can imagine people wanting a different cover for different moods or circumstances. So having the covering as a separate 'glove' makes sense on many levels.

Well, if I were in the industry and designing/producing said hands, the mechanism and superstructure would be sealed. Even if only for durability's sake. After all, I bet there are soldiers with bionic replacements. What if the coverings are melted/torn/shot off [etc.] and they have to treck hundreds of miles through the desert to get to the nearest base to be sent home?

Can't have their bionics giving out because they weren't dust proofed. It seems like a poor marketing strategy to me. "Hey, our robo-hands work just like real ones, but a firm handshake will crush them, and we force you to wear coverings because they weren't finished enough to be resistant to particle ingress! "

My only explanation for all of this is that Jeph didn't want Mary Sue level tech in his world, and he probsibly wanted a plot point. But, realistically, there would be no excuse for this in a real world product, IMHO.

EDIT/Addon:: Hey, does anyone else imagine Pintsize with an almost Elmo-like voice? Maybe slightly deeper?

[JimC]

Well, if I were in the industry ... the mechanism and superstructure would be sealed.

Most motorcyles sold round the world have exposed rear drive chains, with only a guard above them to stop oil and grease being flung onto the rider. This means that the chain and sprockets are covered in road dirt, grit and salt, lubrication is washed off and must be regularly replaced at expense and so on.

Chain enclosures are easy to design and have been in use for decades, save maintenance, drastically reduce the need for expensive replacements, keep the bike cleaner and have precious few disadvantages.

Really just one - they don't look cool. So most motorcyles sold round the world have exposed rear drive chains...

[bhtooefr]

That also goes for bicycles - there are belt drives that are low/zero maintenance, there are chain cases... but a lot of bicycles go for exposed chains.

Of course, with bicycles, it's hard to design a good chain case around a derailleur, but still.

[TheEvilDog]

Anyway, to be on topic, in such an advanced world, where a seemingly full naturally functioning bionic hand would only cost 250 to fix being crushed and repair the neglect from not having a covering; Wouldn't you think it'd be sealed against that stuff as is??

Not at all. Think of it from a retail perspective. The actual hand (the mechanism and superstructure) is more or less common to all customers of that body type. The covering material is an aesthetic customization. Additionally, as said covering probably isn't as robust as the superstructure, it will almost certainly need to be replaced. Also, I can imagine people wanting a different cover for different moods or circumstances. So having the covering as a separate 'glove' makes sense on many levels.

Well, if I were in the industry and designing/producing said hands, the mechanism and superstructure would be sealed. Even if only for durability's sake. After all, I bet there are soldiers with bionic replacements. What if the coverings are melted/torn/shot off [etc.] and they have to treck hundreds of miles through the desert to get to the nearest base to be sent home?

Can't have their bionics giving out because they weren't dust proofed. It seems like a poor marketing strategy to me. "Hey, our robo-hands work just like real ones, but a firm handshake will crush them, and we force you to wear coverings because they weren't finished enough to be resistant to particle ingress! "

My only explanation for all of this is that Jeph didn't want Mary Sue level tech in his world, and he probsibly wanted a plot point. But, realistically, there would be no excuse for this in a real world product, IMHO.

EDIT/Addon:: Hey, does anyone else imagine Pintsize with an almost Elmo-like voice? Maybe slightly deeper?

To be fair, I don't think the group that manufactures those cybernetics have them stressed tested to Elliot levels.

As for hand coverings, its been said before that Clinton could use the covering for his own hand, but chooses not to because he likes how the bare look looks.

A lot of real world first generation gear tends to follow function over form to get the basics down pat. Once you have that, then you work on making it look fancy. It also comes down to efficiency, the more weight involved, the more the device has to work which can affect with how it operates. Now, a hand covering might not sound like it would be anything other than a featherweight, but fine motor control tends to be quite delicate and a covering might affect it, especially if Clinton has never used one.

[DaiJB]

Well, if I were in the industry and designing/producing said hands, the mechanism and superstructure would be sealed. Even if only for durability's sake. After all, I bet there are soldiers with bionic replacements. What if the coverings are melted/torn/shot off [etc.] and they have to treck hundreds of miles through the desert to get to the nearest base to be sent home?

I used to work with a company that put together computers for military use. The process consisted of dismantling ordinary home computers, scrapping the original, less robust cases, connectors, mountings and cables, then replacing them with more robust components, e.g., metal cases, heavy-duty cables etc. Probably cost a mint, but that's what the military pays for - military-grade equipment.
My point is -  do we get military-grade stuff? - no, we get cheaper and (often) nastier. Military-grade is better quality for a reason.

Can't have their bionics giving out because they weren't dust proofed. It seems like a poor marketing strategy to me. "Hey, our robo-hands work just like real ones, but a firm handshake will crush them, and we force you to wear coverings because they weren't finished enough to be resistant to particle ingress! "

Well, that's the world of marketing as it actually exists!
 
For instance, look at cars - you can get everything from a Bugatti or Maserati down to a Pinto or a Yugo!
I can get a Samsung or iPad tablet - or I can buy the thing that I actually did buy...  (You get what you pay for )

Business will sell what people will buy - and if we can't afford a better machine, we might be buying something more dodgy.

I suspect Clinton's family isn't exactly rich - maybe his hand is simply the budget model? ("Budget" often being a euphemism for "cutting corners"  )

[Is it cold in here?]

In this forum, we try to show the same respect to the fictional characters as we do to real people.  It's a form of practice for real life, perhaps, but more importantly it's also true that real people can be hurt by the treatment of fictional people that they identify with in some manner.

People here have identified very strongly with the characters.

Another issue, which might make more sense to a writer, is that these are somebody else's characters.

[TheEvilDog]

I suspect Clinton's family isn't exactly rich - maybe his hand is simply the budget model? ("Budget" often being a euphemism for "cutting corners"  )

Bear in mind as well that Clinton lost his hand years ago due to a fireworks accident, so that probably happened in his late childhood or early teen years. Just a brief check on the net and a company has produced a new myoelectric prosthetic hand that costs on average $11000 (or €9000), to put that into perspective that's designed to be "affordable", other more advanced replacements could almost hit $100,000. Prosthetics have to be replaced every couple of years both due to wear and tear and to account for the growth of an individual. So multiply that a couple of times.

Now consider that Clinton's hand doesn't seem to be an overly basic model - autonomous function and all, which I doubt their insurance would cover, unless its really good! I think the Augustus family would have essentially been buying something as expensive as a secondhand car every couple of years. And factor in Clinton and Claire both being in college and Claire transitioning and I think its safe to say that the Augustus family would have been cutting corners where they could - "Well Clinton, you could have the covering for your hand, or we could pay the heating bill for winter..."

[OldGoat]

I suspect Clinton's family isn't exactly rich - maybe his hand is simply the budget model? ("Budget" often being a euphemism for "cutting corners"  )

^^^THIS^^^

They aren't wealthy, but they do okay by managing what they have well.  For example, Claire is the only QC cast member we know of who owns a car, an older Mazda - which I reckon she saved up for and purchased outright for cash*. 

They didn't go cheap on Clinton's current hand (as TheEvilDog points out, the prosthesis has been replaced at least a couple times), but it's not top of the line, either.    It's a white collar worker's hand.  If it have been designed to be used by a pipefitter, he may have matched or even injured Elliott.  As a plot device, it serves to reinforce Elliott's status as the gentle giant.  Damaging a prosthesis is on the margins of what we can believe Elliott's capable of, but still on the credible side of the line.

*I see Claire as debt-adverse to the point she considers carrying a balance on a credit card a personal failing.  As the relationship progresses, this will contrast with Marten's empty-the-savings-account-for-a-guitar tendencies.

[bhtooefr]

Worth noting that in 2013 when that comic was published, that Mazda was available new.

It was, however, very cheap for a new car, partially because it got mediocre fuel consumption for its class.

My headcanon is that there's quite a bit of money to go around despite the divorce, though - Clinton's hands, Claire's car, Claire's transition, and a nice house in Massachusetts.

[OldGoat]

Worth noting that in 2013 when that comic was published, that Mazda was available new.

It was, however, very cheap for a new car, partially because it got mediocre fuel consumption for its class.

My headcanon is that there's quite a bit of money to go around despite the divorce, though - Clinton's hands, Claire's car, Claire's transition, and a nice house in Massachusetts.

You probably know the Mazda line better than I.  I was seeing it as two or three years old with 20,000 miles or so when she bought it - just the kind of vehicle a frugality freak like I envision Claire to be would look for.

[bhtooefr]

It could've been that old, yes - it came out for model year 2011 in the US market.

However, that would've meant that she would've just gotten it in when that comic was published. (Cars in the QCverse don't appear to follow the timeline at all - estimates are that that strip was set in summer 2006 IIRC, and that car didn't exist then. Phones don't follow it either, FWIW.)

Note that Claire is 24 as of that point, and she's a grad student.

My guess is that she got the car new, as a graduation gift. If she were buying the car with her own money, it would've been a descent into the land of $1000 Craigslist beaters, if she got anything.

[flondrix]

Two girls thinking they were cute and having a little chuckle is not the reason.

Consider how offended the typical woman (typical, not sex-positive kinky dreamgirls you see in the media and online but not in real life) gets if she finds out that a guy was "shipping" her and her cute friend.  Is it any wonder that guys don't like it?

[flondrix]

Not to mention strong enough to withstand a simple friggen handshake????

A handshake, yes.  Two guys trying for the "crush", not so much.  (I think it has been made pretty clear that Clinton tried to go for the crush and Elliot responded in kind.)

Machinery is notoriously vulnerable to stupid unnecessary abuse, and can often be outdone by flesh and blood in ways you wouldn' expect.  One reason that it is hard to fine genuine bagels instead of torroidal shaped bread is that no commercial dough-kneeding machine can handle stiff bagel dough as well as a Jewish grandmother can.

[flondrix]

Are we overdue for a new WCDT?  It is July 8th.

[TheEvilDog]

Are we overdue for a new WCDT?  It is July 8th.

New WCDTs are posted Sunday evening.

[Method of Madness]

New WCDTs are posted whenever someone wants to make them if nobody else has first. Usually it's on a Sunday, but if you wanna make one now, flondrix, that's perfectly fine.

[hedgie]

Hells, I wouldn't mind seeing them on Saturdays, since I'd like to vote/post before I see the comic.

[Case]

No. Toxic masculinity is why guys don't talk to each other like that. Viewing accidental flirting or paying a sincere compliment being seen as a sign of being gay and therefore a bad thing is why guys don't talk to each other like that. Fragile egos and fear of being ostracized are why guys don't talk to each other like that. Two girls thinking they were cute and having a little chuckle is not the reason.

"Toxic Masculinity"

Try Toxic SJW. Oh, wait. You already have.

Profound and original! Can I have an autograph?

[Tova]

I'm glad you brought this up, Case, because I do have a (mild) criticism of the original post in your quote.

Viewing accidental flirting or paying a sincere compliment being seen as a sign of being gay and therefore a bad thing is why guys don't talk to each other like that. Fragile egos and fear of being ostracized are why guys don't talk to each other like that.

These comments are pretty reasonable explanations, IMO, as to why (some) guys don't talk to each other like this, at least not publicly. Although it might be interesting to discuss the deeper reasons why these behaviours are seen the way they are, by (again, some) males and females.

"Toxic masculinity," on the other hand, does not explain why. It's a very broad umbrella term describing all kinds of undesirable male behaviours, including the ones above and many many others. As such, it doesn't really add anything to the discussion except to perhaps ostracise anyone who might mistake the expression for implying that masculinity is inherently "toxic." As such, I feel that the post would have been better without it.

As I said, not really a big deal, but seeing as it came again, thought I'd throw that in.