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Bubbles

Hanners

May (because irony)

Marten

Claire

Marigold

Momo

Dale

Brun

Emily

Steve

Cossette

Elliot

Pintsize

Clinton

Melon

Gordon

Dora

Winslow

other (please state)

[zisraelsen]

That proposal doesn't seem that unbelievable to me. There could easily be protocols in the software to parse the movement of the foot based on what the AI's consciousness is trying to do, much like you don't need to consciously decide to move every individual muscle involved when you decide to walk somewhere. That would allow an AI to walk without intimate knowledge of their mechanics.

[OldGoat]

That proposal doesn't seem that unbelievable to me. There could easily be protocols in the software to parse the movement of the foot based on what the AI's consciousness is trying to do, much like you don't need to consciously decide to move every individual muscle involved when you decide to walk somewhere. That would allow an AI to walk without intimate knowledge of their mechanics.

Yup.  My friend and I both walk just fine, but I just know there's bones and stuff down there.  He, OTOH, is licensed by the state to take people's feet apart and put them back together.   For money, no less!  (He's a DPM and licensed podiatric surgeon.)  I'll ask next time I see him, but I very much doubt he thinks about what each muscle and joint is doing unless they start yelling at him about something going wrong.

Ever been awkward in a new pair of shoes?  That happens because your brain and sense of proprioception haven't reset where the ends of your toes are at, and scraping the curb the first time you park a strange car is an extension of that same thing.  Locomoting AIs need to have these functions, too.

[JimC]

So, the idea you're proposing is that AI are  can use those protocols/their  bodies without consciously accessing them, like organics, or even without being _able_ to access them.

Think APIs and Object oriented programming.
I think the chassis and its components would have a lot of local processing built in, so the brain would issue command "Put fingertip at co-ordinates x.y.z", but it would be local control on the limb that selected which muscles to contract and release to obtain the desired result. And even if the hardware can't actually do it, the command could still be issued. I can imagine a 6th finger on my hand, and I can think, "wiggle that finger", but nothing happens, whereas if I think "wiggle 4th finger" then it moves.

[swapna]

So, the idea you're proposing is that AI are  can use those protocols/their  bodies without consciously accessing them, like organics, or even without being _able_ to access them.

Think APIs and Object oriented programming.
I think the chassis and its components would have a lot of local processing built in, so the brain would issue command "Put fingertip at co-ordinates x.y.z", but it would be local control on the limb that selected which muscles to contract and release to obtain the desired result. And even if the hardware can't actually do it, the command could still be issued. I can imagine a 6th finger on my hand, and I can think, "wiggle that finger", but nothing happens, whereas if I think "wiggle 4th finger" then it moves.

The idea to mask the functions under layers makes sense to me, what doesn't is that the AI wouldn't have access to them even when they needed to. Wouldn't they need to have a very detailed interface with their chassis? Run diagnostics? Read error logs? How would you know if an update worked? Is "it feels weird" really the most accurate diagnostic you can get from a sophisticated mechanical device with  highly sensitive and diverse sensors?

As for humans not having to think about our foot movements: yes, I know that's how it works for us. I am not confused about how humans know how to walk, thank you, but I was thinking about how robot bodies, especially exchangeable ones, might work within the logic of the comic. If "well, it's like it's for humans! Duh!" is the answer, that's just very boring.

[Pilchard123]

Maybe "it feels weird" is all they can do on their own, but they need - for want of a better term - a debugger for more detailed analysis. A bit like how we could say "it feels weird" but may need further testing with "human debuggers" (blood tests; EEG; X-ray; lung function test, though what you might need all four of those for at once I dread to think) for a better result.

AIs might have simple tests built in. Current computers have POST, and to quote the late, great Terry Pratchett: "Most people, on waking up, accelerate through a quick panicky pre-consciousness check-up: who am I, where am I, who is he/she, good god, why am I cuddling a policeman's helmet, what happened last night?", but any further diagnostic tools may not be commonly necessary, so they aren't part of common chassis because it's extra expense and extra things to go wrong.


Also, I'm not sure the Thumblord Incident is a reliable indicator of how AIs work. It was a funny set of strips, and may have been true at the time, but Jeph has made AIs and their functions a lot more realistic since then.

[tustin2121]

The idea to mask the functions under layers makes sense to me, what doesn't is that the AI wouldn't have access to them even when they needed to. Wouldn't they need to have a very detailed interface with their chassis? Run diagnostics? Read error logs? How would you know if an update worked? Is "it feels weird" really the most accurate diagnostic you can get from a sophisticated mechanical device with  highly sensitive and diverse sensors?

I'm reminded of how hard drives work these days. Did you know that, with common hard drive sizes these days being up in the terrabytes, a hard drive has its data so densely packed that the hard drive is guessing at the data more often than it's reading it? The HD has advanced error correction routines that are running constantly when reading data, to try and correct for all of the errors it gets from noise of the surrounding data, defects in the surface its written on, drift from the heads, etc. Even non-spinning drives have these problems, as the cells the data is stored in leak charge and lose integrity over time and writes. But once it gets to the OS level, any troubles the HD may have had in reading the data have been quietly swept under the rug, and oftentimes the only way you can tell when a hard drive is failing is when its taking much longer than usual to boot or open a program or file. Or the computer just outright fails to boot one day. It's a feeling that the hard drive may be struggling at that point.

There are programs out there to read "SMART" data from the drive, which should be able to tell you things like error rates and the like, but often times the numbers returned from a HD's SMART data can't be compared to anything other than itself, generally making it useless to use in the short term, and only mildly useful to a vigilant user over the long term. And some drive manufacturers even refuse to report SMART data, because it might make their hard drives "look bad".

I expect a similar thing could well happen to chassis and their manufacturers. Though I imagine it becomes an AI Rights issue at that point, and government regulation is bound to get involved...

[Tova]

I guess in her case extreme stress causes a disruption to her autonomic processes, thus she loses consciousness?

No; Bubbles hit the nail on the head. It's psychosomatic: Roko really doesn't want to see her detached and flayed foot, so her subconscious systems shut down her higher processes (she 'faints') so she doesn't have to do so.

My interpretation is just as psychosomatic as yours.   

[Thrudd]

My own personal twist on this is that Faye is demonstrating similar tunnel vision to Clinto, Brun and Emily.
Each have their own social issues unique to them but they all have a deep abiding passion for something.
Come to think of it most of the rest of the cast has show similar passion for a subject.
Claire as a Bibliophile, Marigold and Dale as Otaku, Steve and Cereal.

The only main character that has not as yet displayed passion for a subject as far as I can remember is our erstwhile lead, Marten.

[Kugai]

I wonder what the Blend was

Payback Faye?

Suuuuurrrely not 

[Zebediah]

The only main character that has not as yet displayed passion for a subject as far as I can remember is our erstwhile lead, Marten.

Guitars.

[jwhouk]

You know, that could be a sub-head for the Wiki: "Character Passionate Subject."

[Tova]

The only main character that has not as yet displayed passion for a subject as far as I can remember is our erstwhile lead, Marten.

Guitars.

Exhibit A: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2416

[Perfectly Reasonable]

Faye's enthusiasm reminds me of Emily here.

I don't -think- I'd faint when having blood drawn. But I always look away. Just in case. Because it would be embarrassing.

[Near Lurker]

Pharmaceutical industry?  She said crime.

[Gyrre]

'Like the pharmaceutical industry', or career politics, or the insurance industry.

[Storel]

Roko: Oh please. If you wanna make money in crime, there are a million better ways than bank robbwhy am I telling you this

I dunno... sounds like they bribed Hanners not to tell you (or just didn't let her know) about the tiny little program they added to your background processes that subconsciously encourages you to tell them ways to succeed in crime.

I mean, I'm just guessing... but that's what I'd have done.

[St.Clair]

Also, how in hell does Roko use her feet without knowing how they work?

You should ask a centipede that question.

[BenRG]

Am I the only one who thinks that Hannelore's monologue was delivered in a breathless, excited tone of voice, possibly without any pauses? It just seems that Hanners would be in a hurry to reassure Roko and would thus come across as a bit adorably teen!

I... do think that panel 3 is the first time we've seen Roko smile. Meanwhile, I can answer her question about why she's saying this to Faye: She's babbling. She's so glad to be getting out of there without seeing more of her anatomy that she is babbling in relief.

BTW, I've finally worked out what that tall glass cabinet is. It's an old prop from the set of The Time Tunnel. It's one of those narrow stacks of randomly flashing lights that the TV props departments used to make to make the audience think "Beep-Boop! This is a Science-y Place!". Bubbles found it at the Skate Park and brought it to Union Robotics to act as 'atmosphere'.

[Mr_Rose]

So, question: now that Faye is legitimately employed again and has a genuine career ahead maybe, would she go back to college part-time to get “properly” qualified in robo-fixin?

[Tlaloc]

Maybe she can teach the class!  😝

[JoeCovenant]

Also, how in hell does Roko use her feet without knowing how they work?

You should ask a centipede that question.

(shall I post a link to "The Wee Kirkcudbright Centipede" again???)
(Naaaahh!)

[JimC]

The idea to mask the functions under layers makes sense to me, what doesn't is that the AI wouldn't have access to them even when they needed to.

Don't reckon so. 25 years ago I used to write assembler programs to interact almost directly with the hardware, but I haven't really been able to do that sort of stuff since Windows NT came out, and more importantly haven't needed to. And also the level of complexity has risen to such a degree that  even if you did have access you wouldn't know what to do with it. I used to understand what every component did on my motorcyle, and have a damn good idea how to fix it if it went wrong, but nowadays with fuel injection, electronic ignition and **** knows what I really wouldn't have a clue, and without complex external equipment even an up to date pro is severely limited.

[Tlaloc]

And yet we're not seeing oh so much programmatically improving despite all these layers. Modern computing is wedded to what is known as cruft... But it doesn't have to continue this way as a large and increasingly vocal number of people are realising.

[Neko_Ali]

So, question: now that Faye is legitimately employed again and has a genuine career ahead maybe, would she go back to college part-time to get “properly” qualified in robo-fixin?

Sure, she and a friend just started a business by borrowing heavily and using another friend as a co-signer. A business which is struggling through it's start up phase, and for which they've had all of four customers so far. Why not go offer and get thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars into debt while skipping potential work time to get accreditation for what she already knows how to do?

Yes, that was rather acerbic. Might have something to do with how I was pushed by family into a similar situation, though I wasn't starting my own business at the time. It was still two years of wasted time and money to go through schooling for a useless piece of paper to 'learn' what I already knew, just to have that piece of paper saying I knew it.

[OldGoat]

BTW, I've finally worked out what that tall glass cabinet is. It's an old prop from the set of The Time Tunnel.

Akkk!  An Irwin Allen production!  You know what THAT means!

(click to show/hide)

And if that's the case,

(click to show/hide)

Spookybot is

[flondrix]

Also, how in hell does Roko use her feet without knowing how they work?

    A centipede was happy – quite!
    Until a toad in fun
    Said, "Pray, which leg comes after which?"
    Which threw her mind in such a pitch,
    She laid bewildered in the ditch
    Considering how to run.

[flondrix]

So, question: now that Faye is legitimately employed again and has a genuine career ahead maybe, would she go back to college part-time to get “properly” qualified in robo-fixin?

Sure, she and a friend just started a business by borrowing heavily and using another friend as a co-signer. A business which is struggling through it's start up phase, and for which they've had all of four customers so far. Why not go offer and get thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars into debt while skipping potential work time to get accreditation for what she already knows how to do?

Yes, that was rather acerbic. Might have something to do with how I was pushed by family into a similar situation, though I wasn't starting my own business at the time. It was still two years of wasted time and money to go through schooling for a useless piece of paper to 'learn' what I already knew, just to have that piece of paper saying I knew it.

That piece of paper can be necessary, unfortunately.  Faye and Bubbles could work at the skate park without credentials, since everyone there was breaking the law anyway, but I could forsee Union Robotics running into certification issues in the future.

[OldGoat]

That piece of paper can be necessary, unfortunately.  Faye and Bubbles could work at the skate park without credentials, since everyone there was breaking the law anyway, but I could forsee Union Robotics running into certification issues in the future.

Or the field may be so new that there is no globally recognized credentialing body as yet, although I'm sure there are less credible ones aplenty as long as you're willing to pay the tuition.

(Yeah, I've had to play the certification game.)

[brasca]

Well if they want to make some money fast and get away with it then they should ask May how she got caught.  Corpse Witch would be a good consultant too since she would've gotten away with her crimes if it weren't for that meddling cyber god.

[cesium133]

I'm not sure if Corpse Witch would be particularly eager to help Faye and Bubbles, though...

[SotFX]

We've gotten contradictory information about whether they sleep. Momo said once that she doesn't need to. On the other hand there was a comment from Jeph somewhere that every intelligence needs periodic downtime.

Downtime could easily be things like routine software maintenance such as fragmentation of their systems and everything else there along with lower powered modes in order to facilitate a better charging cycle.

[Kugai]

Blue Crime pays  well


Insurance is good
Stock Market
Government Contracts (Try the Military, they'll pay you $500 for a Hammer)

 

[Zebediah]

Comic's up. And Roko's hair is down.

[Thrudd]

Here we have another example of a character saying something inappropriate and making someone else uncomfortable.
I am beginning to sense that there is some sort of pattern or theme going on here.
Nah.

[flondrix]

Here we have another example of a character saying something inappropriate and making someone else uncomfortable.
I am beginning to sense that there is some sort of pattern or theme going on here.
Nah.

When I saw the poll for this week, I thought of Roko's reaction to Faye's "foot meat" song and knew that she and Hanners would hit it off.

[Is it cold in here?]

since I was born

What does it mean that a synthetic describes their incarnation that way? Is it just a convenient way to communicate with meat-based people? Do they try to relate their experiences to ours?

[Perfectly Reasonable]

Faye's "foot meat" song;

I was expecting someone here to have filked it long before this....
(sigh)
I am disappoint.

[Sullivan]

Hanners will soon want to have her consciousness transferred to an AI. You know she's thought about it.

[BenRG]

Oh! Well, I wasn't expecting to be right but here we are: It seems that, since coming for tea, Roko and Hannelore have at least become acquaintances, if not friends.

What Roko is doing is actually quite common behaviour for people with anxiety conditions of various forms (at least in my experience of them): They can't help but talk about the source of their anxieties and, if it's something you're more than a little anxious about yourself, it can become a very awkward and uncomfortable interaction.

since I was born

What does it mean that a synthetic describes their incarnation that way? Is it just a convenient way to communicate with meat-based people? Do they try to relate their experiences to ours?

I think that they typically try to find human-analogue phraseology for their experiences. I suspect that, in this context, Roko is saying that her chassis is the first one into which she was downloaded after being compiled in E-CC's natal servers. So 'born' means being embodied in some way for the first time (even if that 'body' is another mainframe, like the one in which Station lives).

[EDIT]
I just noticed that, with her hair down, Roko looks like the Disney TV character Kim Possible. I wonder if Jeph is telling us that Roko had a 'childhood' fictional crime-fighter hero and this guided her aspirations in operational life?

[JimC]

And Officer Rosko continues: " and all those secretions and eliminations. Not just the big stuff, but the way the human body emits tiny amounts of smelly fluid from just about every surface. I can't imagine what it would be like to have underarms that sweat, and as for those other bits... "

[shanejayell]

Poor Hanners.

Wonder if Basilisk will become a Coffee of Doom regular now?

[Is it cold in here?]

Raising a fascinating question. Our sweat and grease serve purposes:
1. Controlling body temperature
2. Protecting skin
3. Disposing of metabolic waste

People in robot bodies need two of those three.

[David F]

I love the contrast between this and Hannelore's previous interaction with Roko.  (#3426 and #3427)

That Roko is letting her hair down around Hannelore specifically is an interesting sort of reciprocity.  She even had it up while knitting at home (#3414)...

[zisraelsen]

Raising a fascinating question. Our sweat and grease serve purposes:
1. Controlling body temperature

I had the same question. Bubbles has said she has a coolant pump, but she doesn't have any visible radiators or heatsinks. How do they get rid of waste heat, I wonder?

[sitnspin]

She expels gas. The answer, as always, is butts.

[brasca]

Hanners will soon want to have her consciousness transferred to an AI. You know she's thought about it.

I don't think the procedure exists yet, but she'd be first in line to be finally rid of her hypochondria once it's possible.

[JimC]

Raising a fascinating question. Our sweat and grease serve purposes:
1. Controlling body temperature

I had the same question. Bubbles has said she has a coolant pump, but she doesn't have any visible radiators or heatsinks. How do they get rid of waste heat, I wonder?

Respiration and internal radiators? Be best to have single directional flow. I might be tempted to go for intake through the "ears" and exhale through the nostrils.

For extraordinary exertion maybe consider taking on a supply of water and using evaporative cooling to increase radiator efficiency?

[Is it cold in here?]

Internal water tank and breathe out steam?

[cesium133]

[Sullivan]

Internal water tank and breathe out steam?

Please, no steampunk influences here! AT ALL.