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10 - Best character in the strip to date!

1 (1.1%)

9 - Not perfect but is someone doing interesting, useful and funny things

1 (1.1%)

8 - They're surprisingly good/funny/interesting

5 (5.6%)

7 - There's potential there for doing interesting/useful/funny things in the future

27 (30%)

6 - Ho-hum; Jeph needs to try harder if he wants me to be interested in them

7 (7.8%)

5 - Indifferent; don't care what happens with them

9 (10%)

4 - I really don't get what Jeph sees in them

15 (16.7%)

3 - I tend to skip over everything they say and do to focus on other characters

2 (2.2%)

2 - I actually get annoyed when they're in panel

9 (10%)

1 - You'd be happier if they're never shown again

14 (15.6%)

Total Members Voted: 82

[mercykills]

I wonder if Jeph has glanced at the forums recently, because a lot of the feedback I'm seeing on Patreon is very positive. Their opinion is not unanimous of course, but many people there love Tilly.

Soooo, Patreon is to blame for this nonsense!?! I knew that platform would be the downfall of humanity.

I KNEW!!!!

 

[Tova]

MUAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 

[DaiJB]

Excuse me - I must be out of the loop here - I've seen references to 'pronouns' and 'pronoun wars' - what's that about? Is it something to do with Tilly's (to me) obscure statement about 'they/them pronouns'?

There is and has been no pronoun war.  There has been some discussion of the use of non-gendered pronouns, most of which has been transferred to a thread that was already discussing the same thing, which should remove the obscurity of the remark.

There has been some dissension over the matter of deliberately getting Tilly's name wrong, but that has passed.

Ah, fair enough. It seems that here in Australia, such non-gendered pronoun usage is rare to the point of undetectable -   
that includes at work, talking to kids, shopping, in my business dealings, anywhere... 

[dutchrvl]

Excuse me - I must be out of the loop here - I've seen references to 'pronouns' and 'pronoun wars' - what's that about? Is it something to do with Tilly's (to me) obscure statement about 'they/them pronouns'?

There is and has been no pronoun war.  There has been some discussion of the use of non-gendered pronouns, most of which has been transferred to a thread that was already discussing the same thing, which should remove the obscurity of the remark.

There has been some dissension over the matter of deliberately getting Tilly's name wrong, but that has passed.

Ah, fair enough. It seems that here in Australia, such non-gendered pronoun usage is rare to the point of undetectable -   
that includes at work, talking to kids, shopping, in my business dealings, anywhere... 

Such usage is very rare pretty much everywhere afaik, including in the US.
I have to admit that, while I understand and respect the use of they/them pronouns and will try to use those pronouns consistently, it still feels very unnatural (to me at least) to use them for singular human beings. So, I apologize in advance if I inadvertently use the incorrect pronoun in future posts.

[zzyzx]

I wonder if Jeph has glanced at the forums recently, because a lot of the feedback I'm seeing on Patreon is very positive. Their opinion is not unanimous of course, but many people there love Tilly.

Do they explain why they love Tilly?

[Tova]

Not really. Not that I've noticed anyway. I guess they just find Tilly cute and amusing? I don't think they are thinking too hard about it.

Anathema, I know.

[badbum61]

Tucson, Tucumcari, Tehachapi, Tonopah...

Tilapia, Tepaché, Tetch, Titch...

Tarpon, Trigger, Tokamak, Tarantula...

Tagliatelle, Turtle, Tyranosaurus, Terminator, Thesaurus, Telephone, Trepan...

Tinytoon, Tiamat, Telecaster, Teetotaler, Tacobell, Titanomachy...

Tedious, Tepid, Terrible, Tilled

Tila Tequila?

[TheEvilDog]

Ewww, no.

[Shjade]

(click to show/hide)

Uhm - 'concerned' is not the word I'd use in that context (cf. below), but as they say: YMMV (and the subject may be a lacking a few sammiches ...)

He values the ends over the means, but he's not indifferent to the means. If he were, he wouldn't have had the moral event horizon breakdown at the end when he realized he was on the wrong side, because oh well, I guess I was wrong, but whatever, who cares how wrong it was.

Basically the Operative just...er...operates on a utilitarian sense of ethics.

Hmmmh - Way it looked to me is that basically he likes killing just as much as he likes showing off that he's really good at it and the whole "utilitarian ethics mumbojumbo" is merely his way of not acknowledging to himself that his enjoyment of brutality is what it's all about for him. He's not merely 'not indifferent to the means' - he is actually rather enthusiastic about them, and his whole pseudo-philosophical blurb is designed to obfuscate - primarily to himself - that for him, the means is the end, really.

We're talking about a dude who engineers an gravity-assisted 'suicide' and then (apparently sincerely) congratulates the victim on their honourable death (conveniently forgetting the 'involuntary' element) - instead of simply killing the mark in the fastest, least painful way, which is what a 'concerned utilitarian killer' would have done. He even 'offers' the latter option to the victim ("would you rather be killed in your sleep, like an ailing pet?"), just before making him a stage-prop in the enactment of his own 'honourable suicide'.

Methinks that his epiphany at the end is not so much about him realizing he was on the wrong side all along as it is about him running out of flimsy excuses for not acknowledging that he really, really likes what he does, and that this is his reason for doing it. Recall that Shepherd Book all-but-admitted to Mal that he'd been sort of an 'Operative' once ("The man they like to send is a man who believes hard") before mending his ways after he realized the callousness of the whole outfit  - methinks that 'concerned' is a word more appropriate for the likes of him. Also recall that Mal immediately distrusts the Operative's 'epiphany', whereas he trusted Book implicitly.

Also:

(click to show/hide)

I suppose that comes down to whether you think he's sincere in trying to confer honor and nobility on the act of suicide for the good of the many, or if he was being sarcastic about it to rub salt in the proverbial wound because he just really wanted to kill the guy.

I got the impression it was option #1, myself.

There's also the heavily implied notion that Shepherd Book is an ex-Operative, and that the Operative is likely going to go down a similar route himself post-conclusion, which would require a pretty drastic perspective shift from amorality compared to the much smaller one of misguided utilitarianism. Not impossible, but seems less likely.

But hey, it's all fiction, so whatevs.

[OldGoat]

Comic's up! 

Hannelore is unquestionably a mammal.

[Shjade]

I like "damn-elore" more than I should.

[Tova]

Manners.

[Smallest]

The kind of sudden cut to evening makes me kind of feel like either there's going to be something that happens and gives Tilly some ground for keeping their job, or that Beatrice* is going to pull something so that Hannelore will see why she needs a personal assistant.

*Someone or someones will probably say this is something Tilly would/will do, but I preemptively disagree.

[MightionNY]

Hmmm... has Winslow been working out?  He's sitting on the couch with Hanners and is seeing her pretty much eye-to-eye, but in 3543 he's almost a full head shorter than Hanners when standing.  Makes me wonder if the Regular Boy Deluxe features a variable-length spine with automatic self-adjusting spacers.

[Penquin47]

Ma'am-elore.  I LIKE WINSLOW.

[Gyrre]

"Ma'am-elore"? Great, now I want to call her 'Elora' for some reason.

EDIT: For anyone curious; Elora Galanedel, a circle of the moon druid elven princess from Highrollers

[brasca]

The kind of sudden cut to evening makes me kind of feel like either there's going to be something that happens and gives Tilly some ground for keeping their job, or that Beatrice* is going to pull something so that Hannelore will see why she needs a personal assistant.

*Someone or someones will probably say this is something Tilly would/will do, but I preemptively disagree.

Maybe Juicy will be too loud and Hannelore will put Tilly’s negotiating skills to the test.  If she can takeover her lease then the job is hers.

[BenRG]

There's not really much to say about today's strip. It's a bridge with a silly joke at the end. I'm just glad that Jeph hasn't decided to keep pushing Tilly into our face for the rest of the first day.

We are reminded of something important though, something that I think everyone can profitably apply to real life: If someone is annoyed about someone or something, making a cute joke about it might not have the outcome that you hoped it would! What Hannelore needs right now is a cup of her calming tea, not Winslow attempting to be smart or cute; she has Faye and Claire for that!

[Cornelius]

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

Uhm - 'concerned' is not the word I'd use in that context (cf. below), but as they say: YMMV (and the subject may be a lacking a few sammiches ...)

He values the ends over the means, but he's not indifferent to the means. If he were, he wouldn't have had the moral event horizon breakdown at the end when he realized he was on the wrong side, because oh well, I guess I was wrong, but whatever, who cares how wrong it was.

Basically the Operative just...er...operates on a utilitarian sense of ethics.

Hmmmh - Way it looked to me is that basically he likes killing just as much as he likes showing off that he's really good at it and the whole "utilitarian ethics mumbojumbo" is merely his way of not acknowledging to himself that his enjoyment of brutality is what it's all about for him. He's not merely 'not indifferent to the means' - he is actually rather enthusiastic about them, and his whole pseudo-philosophical blurb is designed to obfuscate - primarily to himself - that for him, the means is the end, really.

We're talking about a dude who engineers an gravity-assisted 'suicide' and then (apparently sincerely) congratulates the victim on their honourable death (conveniently forgetting the 'involuntary' element) - instead of simply killing the mark in the fastest, least painful way, which is what a 'concerned utilitarian killer' would have done. He even 'offers' the latter option to the victim ("would you rather be killed in your sleep, like an ailing pet?"), just before making him a stage-prop in the enactment of his own 'honourable suicide'.

Methinks that his epiphany at the end is not so much about him realizing he was on the wrong side all along as it is about him running out of flimsy excuses for not acknowledging that he really, really likes what he does, and that this is his reason for doing it. Recall that Shepherd Book all-but-admitted to Mal that he'd been sort of an 'Operative' once ("The man they like to send is a man who believes hard") before mending his ways after he realized the callousness of the whole outfit  - methinks that 'concerned' is a word more appropriate for the likes of him. Also recall that Mal immediately distrusts the Operative's 'epiphany', whereas he trusted Book implicitly.

Also:

(click to show/hide)

I suppose that comes down to whether you think he's sincere in trying to confer honor and nobility on the act of suicide for the good of the many, or if he was being sarcastic about it to rub salt in the proverbial wound because he just really wanted to kill the guy.

I got the impression it was option #1, myself.

There's also the heavily implied notion that Shepherd Book is an ex-Operative, and that the Operative is likely going to go down a similar route himself post-conclusion, which would require a pretty drastic perspective shift from amorality compared to the much smaller one of misguided utilitarianism. Not impossible, but seems less likely.

But hey, it's all fiction, so whatevs.

The comics, that fill in some of the story give Shepherd Books back story.

(click to show/hide)

Basically, he was a brown coat operative,who used a stolen identity to infiltrate the Alliance, climb the ranks, and spectacularly lose a battle. His ident as a former Alliance commander is whit the Alliance ship rendered aid, with no further questions asked. Now, how far the comics are canon, is another question.

Back on topic, negotiating Juicy's departure would be a great service to Hanners. Let's see how it plays out.

[gopher]

I wonder if Jeph has glanced at the forums recently, because a lot of the feedback I'm seeing on Patreon is very positive. Their opinion is not unanimous of course, but many people there love Tilly.

Do they explain why they love Tilly?

Patrons,  almost by definition, have swallowed the JJ koolaid.

[gopher]

Winslow, funnier in one word than Tilly managed in a month.

[Tova]

I wonder if Jeph has glanced at the forums recently, because a lot of the feedback I'm seeing on Patreon is very positive. Their opinion is not unanimous of course, but many people there love Tilly.

Do they explain why they love Tilly?

Patrons,  almost by definition, have swallowed the JJ koolaid.

I did mention that their opinion isn't unanimous. So no, that's nonsense.

[Smallest]

The kind of sudden cut to evening makes me kind of feel like either there's going to be something that happens and gives Tilly some ground for keeping their job, or that Beatrice* is going to pull something so that Hannelore will see why she needs a personal assistant.

*Someone or someones will probably say this is something Tilly would/will do, but I preemptively disagree.

Maybe Juicy will be too loud and Hannelore will put Tilly’s negotiating skills to the test.  If she can takeover her lease then the job is hers.

If there is any notion of Hannelore turning into her mother, I want it to be via her Juicy rivalry.

[gopher]

I wonder if Jeph has glanced at the forums recently, because a lot of the feedback I'm seeing on Patreon is very positive. Their opinion is not unanimous of course, but many people there love Tilly.

Do they explain why they love Tilly?

Patrons,  almost by definition, have swallowed the JJ koolaid.

I did mention that their opinion isn't unanimous. So no, that's nonsense.

Good to know being as Admin allows you to read minds.

IICIH here. Tova is not an administrator. This wasn't up to community standards, PM next

[hedgie]

Patrons,  almost by definition, have swallowed the JJ koolaid.

I just enjoy the comic and enjoy the fora.  I also refuse to turn off my adblocker for any reason, so I figure tossing artists a little bit of money is only fair.

[KevxD]

I voted 4. Tilly doesn't inspire any strong emotion in me, I don't like her, I don't hate her, she's just a bit boring. I'll be happy when this arc moves along.

On a separate note, I found today's comic quite confusing grammatically. The they/them pronoun usage is going to take some getting used to. 

[Cornelius]

On the other hand, they do have the insistence, and energy, to warrant the plural, quite aside from anything else.

[JoeCovenant]

SPATHE-HAM-ELORE !

(Spam-elore?)

Qualm: "tilly 4 lyfe"  ???
(SHUDDER!)

[Tova]

Good to know being as Admin allows you to read minds.

Sorry, can't read yours.

[Zebediah]

Hmmm... has Winslow been working out?  He's sitting on the couch with Hanners and is seeing her pretty much eye-to-eye, but in 3543 he's almost a full head shorter than Hanners when standing.  Makes me wonder if the Regular Boy Deluxe features a variable-length spine with automatic self-adjusting spacers.

Winslow is sitting up straight. Hannelore isn’t.

Of course robots have excellent posture!

[dutchrvl]

I wonder if Jeph has glanced at the forums recently, because a lot of the feedback I'm seeing on Patreon is very positive. Their opinion is not unanimous of course, but many people there love Tilly.

Do they explain why they love Tilly?

Patrons,  almost by definition, have swallowed the JJ koolaid.

Pardon my language, but that is, in my opinion of course, absolute BS (or my personal favorite, horse-S).
I am not a die-hard JJ fan or agree with every choice he makes in his art, but I do enjoy his (and several other) webcomics.
Personally I think it is no more than fair to compensate somebody for providing me with a product I enjoy on a regular basis. Plus, let's not forget that the minimum level of $1 per month is a laughable amount considering you get about 20 comics for that.

I have no problem giving up 1 chain-provided hot beverage per month in order to support several webauthors, and I am sure there are plenty of others like me. Nothing to do with drinking an author's 'koolaid'.

Then again, I am also one of those odd people that sometimes donates a small amount for freeware, Wikipedia, or other services that technically I wouldn't have to pay for. Shocker, I know.

[Zebediah]

I have to say that Hannelore looks completely exhausted after having to deal with Tilly for a day. That is the exact opposite of how a personal assistant is supposed to make you feel. She’s spending more time and energy managing Tilly than Tilly is saving her.

[shanejayell]

Hopefully next installment will be Bubbles & Faye related, or possibly Marten at work.

[Cornelius]

I have to say that Hannelore looks completely exhausted after having to deal with Tilly for a day.

In all fairness, we have seen Hannelore come home from Coffee of Doom in a worse state than this.

[BenRG]

Yes but, in this case, nothing has exploded on her or caught fire. It just took one aggressive personality to do this to her, not a day of bad luck!

[Welu]

Patrons,  almost by definition, have swallowed the JJ koolaid.

Moderator Comment

Very inappropriate. Each fan has valid opinion, patron or not. It's incredibly tasteless and insulting to compare Jeph to a mass murdering cult leader and other fans to the victims.

[BenRG]

Let's put this in a different way then: Patron comments are not automatically a representative subset of the fandom.

Because Patron users commenting on QC will generally be those satisfied with and therefore donating towards Jeph's work, they would be disproportionately be those who liked the direction that the strip is currently going in and the characters upon which Jeph is focussing. Asking those voluntarily donating to a project if they are satisfied with it will always be more likely to be positive than negative.

I hope that Jeph is also reading his Twitter and Tumblr responses, which are less likely to be tilted towards being 'happy customers'.

[Shjade]

Good to know being as Admin allows you to read minds.

- said by the person who just claimed to know the minds of an entire Patreon audience.

Cool story, bro.

Sidenote: being condescending about the paying audience of an artist whose work you continue to consume without joining said paying audience isn't a great look either.

[Is it cold in here?]

Global Moderator Comment

No flame wars please. The mod team will take care of the situation.

[OldGoat]

On a separate note, I found today's comic quite confusing grammatically. The they/them pronoun usage is going to take some getting used to.

As noted before, I've used "they" in its various forms for a neuter third person singular pronoun in writing since about 1988, but I've never had my nose rubbed in just how damn confusing it is until this story arc.  I realize now that there's a reason speakers and listeners wanted singulars and plurals to begin with.

I haven't settle on a preference for one of the proposed alternatives, but I'll get there. 

But it won't be "mim."  Too much Disney baggage there.

[Marco]

No flame wars please. The mod team will take care of the situation.

Thanks, Admin. With all this Youtube-comment-style arguing, I was getting almost like this: http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2683

[Thrudd]

Winslow is sitting up straight. Hannelore isn’t.
Of course robots have excellent posture!

Then there is May ..... 

[OldGoat]

Winslow is sitting up straight. Hannelore isn’t.
Of course robots have excellent posture!

Then there is May ..... 

Seriously.  There HAS to be someone to tell a humanoid AI, "Stand up straight!  Don't slouich like that!"

Another mystery of AI culture yet to be revealed.

[Pilchard123]

Oh dear. Is this going to be another Dorapocalypse? Another Cataclairsm? What do we call it?

Armageddthem?

[Storel]

Hmmm... has Winslow been working out?  He's sitting on the couch with Hanners and is seeing her pretty much eye-to-eye, but in 3543 he's almost a full head shorter than Hanners when standing.  Makes me wonder if the Regular Boy Deluxe features a variable-length spine with automatic self-adjusting spacers.

Winslow is sitting up straight. Hannelore isn’t.

Of course robots have excellent posture!

Maybe Winslow just has short legs.

[Zebediah]

Oh dear. Is this going to be another Dorapocalypse? Another Cataclairsm? What do we call it?

Armageddthem?

Oh, it’s hardly reached that level yet. So far this hasn’t even topped the Great Meat Loaf War of February 2016.

[mof920]

I don't hate Tilly, but I don't love her either. The reason I'm rather infatuated with the idea of Tilly coming around is because it might force or inspire Hanners into doing more with the Chatham corporations. Something I've been wanting to happen since we were first introduced Beatrice.

[Welu]

Them, please and thank you.

[zzyzx]

Not really. Not that I've noticed anyway. I guess they just find Tilly cute and amusing? I don't think they are thinking too hard about it.

Anathema, I know.

I wasn't expecting a thesis as much as "It was funny/cool/amazing when Tilly did

• " raves. Liking things is always better than hating if possible, so I wouldn't mind seeing the appeal.

[Tova]

Let's put this in a different way then: Patron comments are not automatically a representative subset of the fandom.

Well, I mean, yes. Quite true.

The whole reason I brought up Patreon in the first place was not to claim that they somehow should be considered to be a true representation of how QC readers were responding. It was simply to point out that these forums are not a representative subset of the fandom. For the same reason that Patreon is not - very simply, they are both self-selecting samples. As I'm sure you're aware, self-selection will always introduce a bias.

I went back to #3625 on Patreon, and now I'm going to quote a couple of examples for zzyzx's benefit (so hard not to type xyzzy).

"I want Tilly in my life so bad, for real. I've spent this whole arc wishing I could afford a Tilly. With Tilly's exact intense, earnest personality. They could live with me. For real. "

Someone is a fan of earnestness, I guess.

Okay, a slightly calmer example.

"Panel 4 is excellent and I love it."

That was referring to the hand-stand panel. I'm sure there are others - possibly as many reasons as there are commenters.

Here's a counter-example, just for gopher.

"So now the unwanted assistant is further weaseling unbidden into Hannelore's life? Still creepy."

Bottom line: don't be so quick to airily dismiss the opinions of an entire community. Especially the community whose existence helps to ensure that you can continue to read and discuss the very comic we're all enjoying.