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Poll

Who is going to put their foot in it this week?

Faye
- 6 (10.7%)
Bubbles
- 1 (1.8%)
Amanda
- 11 (19.6%)
Evie
- 13 (23.2%)
Someone else (Please list)
- 1 (1.8%)
All of the above!
- 24 (42.9%)

Total Members Voted: 52


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Author Topic: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)  (Read 44053 times)

TinPenguin

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #50 on: 16 Jan 2018, 23:29 »

I suppose that you could accuse Faye of abusing a trusting soul to get $100 for no real work on her part.

If someone tried to give me money for something I hadn't done, I'd probably refuse it, but on the other hand, I have never struggled to make ends meet and pay rent. It seems reasonable in that light. And Faye's not told a word of a lie to Melon. Okay, except maybe in panel 4, but I'm pretty sure Melon is ignoring auditory input by that point.
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Dave3.14

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #51 on: 16 Jan 2018, 23:46 »

I bet Faye's new $100 that Pintsize ends up with a domestic robot pet soon.
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traroth

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #52 on: 17 Jan 2018, 01:06 »

Comic's up

Melon really seems to have issues...
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drmike

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #54 on: 17 Jan 2018, 04:45 »

Amanda reminds me of Claire in 2482
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Perfectly Reasonable

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #55 on: 17 Jan 2018, 08:22 »

I am with Amanda here.
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OldGoat

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #56 on: 17 Jan 2018, 09:20 »

Melon - begrudged Faye and Bubbles $75 for an emergency rump repair for herself, but drops $100 for the equivalent of a veterinary consultation for a wandering Willie.

Butt, I guess the bottom-build was probably worth at least $250 or $300.
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TheEvilDog

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #57 on: 17 Jan 2018, 09:48 »

Damn it, the forum's Butts Disease is flaring up again. Right, quarantine procedures everyone!
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DSL

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #58 on: 17 Jan 2018, 09:53 »

REALLY enjoying the range of "trying to be polite and not laugh" expressions Jeph gave Amanda in 3658.
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brasca

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #59 on: 17 Jan 2018, 10:56 »

Melon - begrudged Faye and Bubbles $75 for an emergency rump repair for herself, but drops $100 for the equivalent of a veterinary consultation for a wandering Willie.

Butt, I guess the bottom-build was probably worth at least $250 or $300.

There’s probably a wacky explanation for this inconsistency that might be amusing to know.
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A Duck

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #60 on: 17 Jan 2018, 15:51 »

Melon has a point. I was noticing that Faye and her sister are drawn exactly the same, except for hair, glasses and expressions.
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TheEvilDog

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #61 on: 17 Jan 2018, 16:00 »

Wow, its almost as if they're sisters and share the same parents.
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Vern LaVey

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #62 on: 17 Jan 2018, 17:24 »

I like Faye, which is why the whole thing with her keeping the $100 really bothers me.   Especially since Melon asked if it was an appropriate amount.  Faye taking advantage of her would still be a shitty thing to do if she hadn't asked that... but since she did I can't justify it at all.
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A Duck

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #63 on: 17 Jan 2018, 17:31 »

I bet tonight's comic will be Bubbles calling out Faye for that.

Or maybe just Faye herself giving Melon the money back.
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OldGoat

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #64 on: 17 Jan 2018, 18:27 »

Wow, its almost as if they're sisters and share the same parents.
And are drawn by the same artist!  ;)

I like Faye, which is why the whole thing with her keeping the $100 really bothers me.   Especially since Melon asked if it was an appropriate amount.  Faye taking advantage of her would still be a shitty thing to do if she hadn't asked that... but since she did I can't justify it at all.
Things like that are often a struggle for the self-employed.  Jeph's been setting this issue up for a while, ever since Bubbles called BS on Faye not budgeting for groceries.
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A Duck

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #65 on: 17 Jan 2018, 18:37 »

I just realized that Faye has been exclusively wearing that black hoodie for a *long* time now. I like it, but maybe Jeph is also using it to hint at her financial issues?
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TheEvilDog

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #66 on: 17 Jan 2018, 19:09 »

With regards to Faye taking the money from Melon, I'd call that a consultation fee.

I know several people who would call it an idiot's fee.

Melon has been set up to be...eccentric, that's the polite term... This was someone who blew their own ass off, has a job where she screams as insects are poured upon her and as we've just seen here, she pretty much thought that a dildo was a dick off a chassis. That points to someone who has more money than sense, Bug-Screamer sounds like a pretty niche job and niche jobs tend to pay fairly well. The thing is as well, I imagine that Melon did realise she had wasted some of Faye's time and was perhaps overpaying to save face and to apologise, all while keeping up the idea of getting a hutch for her new pet.
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ANeM

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #67 on: 17 Jan 2018, 19:50 »

I think the friction with Bubs today is due to her being frustrated with the Melon thing, possibly for a couple of reasons. The most obvious is that Bubbles has been a (somewhat) naive AI that got taken advantage by someone else.  It's not as horrible as what happened to her, but it's still kind of in that same realm. It's a young AI who doesn't know any better being exploited for personal gain. Whether or not Melon was doing it to save face doesn't really matter, it's the optics.

Beyond that there is the fact Faye is once again making business decisions without consulting with Bubbles. Union Robotics is supposed to be their attempt at going legit, and "tricking" someone into paying $100 just to be told that vibrators need batteries doesn't mesh well with that concept. Yes, Melon offered it, but that doesn't really make it okay. It's definitely not going to help the business if Melon mentions it to someone who knows better. It is short term gain for what could be long term problems. You don't want to get a reputation for exploiting people. If Melon did it to save face, they'll probably fine. You don't knowingly do something like that just to tell people later.. but Faye and Bubs don't really have any way of knowing that. It's an unnecessary risk.
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TheEvilDog

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #68 on: 17 Jan 2018, 20:16 »

I think the friction with Bubs today is due to her being frustrated with the Melon thing, possibly for a couple of reasons. The most obvious is that Bubbles has been a (somewhat) naive AI that got taken advantage by someone else.  It's not as horrible as what happened to her, but it's still kind of in that same realm. It's a young AI who doesn't know any better being exploited for personal gain. Whether or not Melon was doing it to save face doesn't really matter, it's the optics.

Beyond that there is the fact Faye is once again making business decisions without consulting with Bubbles. Union Robotics is supposed to be their attempt at going legit, and "tricking" someone into paying $100 just to be told that vibrators need batteries doesn't mesh well with that concept. Yes, Melon offered it, but that doesn't really make it okay. It's definitely not going to help the business if Melon mentions it to someone who knows better. It is short term gain for what could be long term problems. You don't want to get a reputation for exploiting people. If Melon did it to save face, they'll probably fine. You don't knowingly do something like that just to tell people later.. but Faye and Bubs don't really have any way of knowing that. It's an unnecessary risk.

I think it might be less to do with Faye taking money from Melon and more that Evie might have pressed a couple of buttons during their conversation and Bubbles has chosen to remove herself from that situation.
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A Duck

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #69 on: 17 Jan 2018, 20:19 »

I don't think Bubbles was exactly paying attention to the whole Melon business, I also think it's because of the Evie thing.
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #70 on: 17 Jan 2018, 20:21 »

I honestly want to punch Evie. I immediately disliked her from the start and the way she's treating Bubbles is shitty. She reminds me of every stuck up, head up their ass academic I've ever come across. Gross.
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Tyr

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #71 on: 17 Jan 2018, 20:25 »

I think it might be less to do with Faye taking money from Melon and more that Evie might have pressed a couple of buttons during their conversation and Bubbles has chosen to remove herself from that situation.

I agree, mostly, but I think Bubbles' face is more "I have some thinking I'd like to do in solitude" rather than "I am going to duck out on this because one or more parties are annoying me".
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SpanielBear

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #72 on: 17 Jan 2018, 20:26 »

"I think the friction with Bubs today is due to her being frustrated with the Melon thing, possibly for a couple of reasons. The most obvious is that Bubbles has been a (somewhat) naive AI that got taken advantage by someone else.  It's not as horrible as what happened to her, but it's still kind of in that same realm. It's a young AI who doesn't know any better being exploited for personal gain. Whether or not Melon was doing it to save face doesn't really matter, it's the optics.

Beyond that there is the fact Faye is once again making business decisions without consulting with Bubbles. Union Robotics is supposed to be their attempt at going legit, and "tricking" someone into paying $100 just to be told that vibrators need batteries doesn't mesh well with that concept. Yes, Melon offered it, but that doesn't really make it okay. It's definitely not going to help the business if Melon mentions it to someone who knows better. It is short term gain for what could be long term problems. You don't want to get a reputation for exploiting people. If Melon did it to save face, they'll probably fine. You don't knowingly do something like that just to tell people later.. but Faye and Bubs don't really have any way of knowing that. It's an unnecessary risk."


Hold up there, respectfully there are a few leaps you seem to be making.

For one, Bubs was still talking to Evie throughout all of the Faye/Melon interaction. The fact that Amanda had to tell Evie about the experience suggests they were in a different area of the shop. Additionally, Bubbles was already being shown to feel uncomfortable about being de... I want to say depersonalised but it's not that. De-entitied? Objectified? Being compared to unthinking nuclear weapons as a veteran trying to adapt to a new life is going to uncomfortable to say the least, if not downright upsetting. I'd be very surprised if that wasn't what Bubbles is currently processing.

Secondly, I agree that Faye accepting $100 for a casual chat feels uncomfortable, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it exploitative. She didn't name the price, just accepted what was offered. Not how I would have played it, but I'm not a struggling small business owner. Furthermore calling this a business decision Bubbles wasn't involved in seems disingenuous. She was accepting payment from a customer. That's like saying Hanners should be checking with Dora every time she asks someone to pay for their coffee.

tldr, it feels like you are painting Faye's actions in the worst possible light and then using that to conclude that this means Bubbles/Faye drama. You may be right, but all things being equal I don't think that's where the strip is going.

(Also I messed up the quoting, I'm really sorry. Writing on iPhone is less than ideal)
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Isyrion

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #73 on: 17 Jan 2018, 20:28 »

I think its about 50% Melon getting hustled by Faye, 50% Evie hitting a sore spot without thinking about it.  Bubs will likely call Faye out, which Faye will likely get snarky with then do the right thing....I also think if Bubs does get mad at Faye over the Melon stuff her attraction (for lack of a better word) will play a part in her anger with Faye.  Don't forget Bubs is an AI and being a former combat unit she might have enhanced hearing.

Warning - while you were typing 3 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #74 on: 17 Jan 2018, 20:30 »

The comparison of AIs to nuclear weapons was too much. Can I please, please punch Evie? I want to punch her. She has just been irritating since she showed up. First saying that Faye was "negging" her, and just generally being a douche. She's super annoying.

She's just one of those people who can't see past herself and doesn't even have the presence of mind to know she's offended Bubbles and should apologize. From the first time they saw Bubbles, Evie looking at Bubbles like she was some object, then when Bubbles is like "yo dawg, you're offending me" she's like "that's fair, it's offensive, BUT I wasn't talking about ME thinking that..."

I also feel like she's subtly suggesting that racism (that she deals with) is not in any way comparable to discrimination against AIs. It's not "real" so to speak. Being a POC myself, she reminds me of so many idiots. Like "Oh, people of color have all this cultural and historical baggage, but AIs don't have to deal with any prejudice at all."

ugh. Want to punch. So. Much.
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Penquin47

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #75 on: 17 Jan 2018, 20:32 »

I think its about 50% Melon getting hustled by Faye, 50% Evie hitting a sore spot without thinking about it.  Bubs will likely call Faye out, which Faye will likely get snarky with then do the right thing....I also think if Bubs does get mad at Faye over the Melon stuff her attraction (for lack of a better word) will play a part in her anger with Faye.  Don't forget Bubs is an AI and being a former combat unit she might have enhanced hearing.

Warning - while you were typing 3 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

It's not the hearing that's the problem - it's the attention.  It's hard to pay attention to 2-3 things at once.
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War Sparrow

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #76 on: 17 Jan 2018, 20:36 »

I think I agree with those who think Bubbles is upset about her conversation with Evie, rather than anything to do with Melon. There might be later tension between Bubbles and Faye, but I think it might be more " your sister's girlfriend is rude and obnoxious, had enough of that in the army thanks" rather than anything Melon based.
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Shjade

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #77 on: 17 Jan 2018, 20:48 »

The comparison of AIs to nuclear weapons was too much. Can I please, please punch Evie? I want to punch her. She has just been irritating since she showed up. First saying that Faye was "negging" her, and just generally being a douche. She's super annoying.

Wow, new QC characters REALLY get hostile receptions these days.

Evie seems bright, pretty easygoing, and clearly has some issues when it comes to processing the humanity of AI entities in practice as opposed to on paper. Nobody's perfect. This is not a flaw that calls for being punched.  :\
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #78 on: 17 Jan 2018, 20:51 »

I realize I probably dislike Evie more than anyone else. But I really, really dislike her. Maybe she'll do something to change that, but I seriously doubt it.

She can start by apologizing to Bubbles.   :x
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Shjade

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #79 on: 17 Jan 2018, 20:53 »

Judging by Faye's uncertain look back as they leave, I strongly suspect that's the direction this is headed.

Nothing wrong with disliking someone, but wanting to punch them for that is a concern. ;p
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haikupoet

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #80 on: 17 Jan 2018, 21:07 »

My read on Bubbles' expression is that at least in part she sees Amanda and Evie together and is sad/jealous that it's not a double date.
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Smallest

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #81 on: 17 Jan 2018, 21:09 »

The comparison of AIs to nuclear weapons was too much. Can I please, please punch Evie? I want to punch her. She has just been irritating since she showed up. First saying that Faye was "negging" her, and just generally being a douche. She's super annoying.

Wow, new QC characters REALLY get hostile receptions these days.

Evie seems bright, pretty easygoing, and clearly has some issues when it comes to processing the humanity of AI entities in practice as opposed to on paper. Nobody's perfect. This is not a flaw that calls for being punched.  :\

I disagree. I mean, I don't want to punch her (yet), or hate her in any way near how people hated Tilly, but holy shit the way she was talking down to Bubbles, and her joked not-actually-an-excuse. I'm even more angry at her than I was at Marigold when she was holding Momo's new body over her [Momo's] head.

Although, re tonight's comic, I'm not totally sure if that's why Bubbles is mad, or if she's uncomfortable with Faye taking advantage of Melon's nature for financial gain (although since it was offered, this seems a lot more minor).
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Smallest

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #82 on: 17 Jan 2018, 21:12 »

Additionally, Bubbles was already being shown to feel uncomfortable about being de... I want to say depersonalised but it's not that. De-entitied? Objectified?

I think you want 'dehumanized?'
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SpanielBear

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #83 on: 17 Jan 2018, 21:29 »

Additionally, Bubbles was already being shown to feel uncomfortable about being de... I want to say depersonalised but it's not that. De-entitied? Objectified?

I think you want 'dehumanized?'

Well I wondered about that. She doesn't self identify as human, so that word felt wrong there. The issue seems to be more around "personhood", although that also may be considered anthropomorphising. The point is that AI are sentient, intelligent, and have complex inner emotional lives. My point is they aren't just test subjects. They deserve respect and social awareness.

This isn't to say a respectful study of AI culture and its impact on the world couldn't be respectful. Like an anthropological study, as long as it was done sensitively and ethically it is absolutely of academic interest. Evie's mistake was to go into full "explain why my PhD is fascinating" mode without thinking about who she was talking to. I also don't think she did it at all maliciously or in bad faith, just got hyped over talking about her subject and didn't notice as her foot crept inexorably mouthwards.

I also don't want to punch her :-P
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ChipNoir

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #84 on: 17 Jan 2018, 21:37 »

The thing with Evie is she basically denied a very real experience that Bubbles has had at least twice: The snot nosed teen-somethings talking behind her back, and the mom nervously expecting Bubbles to squish her child on a whim. Bubbles has probably spent her entire life facing prejudice for being essentially an AI tank in a humanoid body, and Evie outright said that humans have no baggage against AI's, that they're readily accepted, and that just hasn't been the case for Bubbles.

The comparison of AIs to nuclear weapons was too much. Can I please, please punch Evie? I want to punch her. She has just been irritating since she showed up. First saying that Faye was "negging" her, and just generally being a douche. She's super annoying.

Wow, new QC characters REALLY get hostile receptions these days.

Evie seems bright, pretty easygoing, and clearly has some issues when it comes to processing the humanity of AI entities in practice as opposed to on paper. Nobody's perfect. This is not a flaw that calls for being punched.  :\

Evie strikes me as someone who suffers what I like to call "Campus Syndrome." Young, high-minded people who think the relative safety of a college campus is remotely the same as life outside said campus. There's a tendency there to think you know everything, and often an optimistic view point that doesn't match reality when you're given all this sense of knowledge, freedom, and self empowerment. You forget that shit is still really backwards in the world. It's even worse now with "Safe Spaces" that try to minimize exposure to the reality that humans will be shitty to anything they encounter that isn't familiar, and AI's are still extremely new by the sound of it, and people ARE hostile towards any AI that doesn't come in a cute pintsized/momo styled package.

It's basically a major distrust I have in modern higher learning. You're more educated but...I think the last couple batches have lost something in terms of dealing with social issues like what's being demonstrated here. If you live in an echo chamber of academic optimism, this is the sort of problem that will happen.
« Last Edit: 17 Jan 2018, 21:45 by ChipNoir »
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mercykills

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #85 on: 17 Jan 2018, 21:50 »

Judging by Faye's uncertain look back as they leave, I strongly suspect that's the direction this is headed.

Nothing wrong with disliking someone, but wanting to punch them for that is a concern. ;p

The comparison of AIs to nuclear weapons was too much. Can I please, please punch Evie? I want to punch her. She has just been irritating since she showed up. First saying that Faye was "negging" her, and just generally being a douche. She's super annoying.

Wow, new QC characters REALLY get hostile receptions these days.

Evie seems bright, pretty easygoing, and clearly has some issues when it comes to processing the humanity of AI entities in practice as opposed to on paper. Nobody's perfect. This is not a flaw that calls for being punched.  :\

Holy sh*t! We're on the same side of something, Shjade. If that's not cause for scotch then I don't know what is.

Ok, people, YES, was Evie insensitive and will need a "talking to" + an apology to Bubbs be in her immediate future, yes. Is ANY of that worthy of physical violence, whether from Faye OR from forum-goers? Absolutely not. Let's calm it down, people. Evie got a bit too excited, didn't watch her fucking language like she should have and I wouldn't be shocked if when she realized her blunder she was horrified and tripped over herself to apologize to Bubbles.

......

If she doesn't THEN we burn her at the stake. :evil: :evil: :evil:

I kid, Shjade...I kid.
« Last Edit: 18 Jan 2018, 01:30 by mercykills »
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Milayna

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #86 on: 17 Jan 2018, 22:02 »

...????????

So I was at a convention awhile ago, rooming in the hotel with a friend, having paid my share of the rent and parking fees. There's a bunch of other people too, and 2 beds. Come time to sleep, my host asks me if I want to use a bed.

So I stop for a moment and say "Oh, well, I...brought my sleeping bag so I don't need it...I mean, if anyone else wants it, they can have it, that's fine." So she asks me again, more firmly, if "I" want the bed. And I spent the next 10 seconds stuttering until my girlfriend ordered me to take it because of my back problems.

...And I see nothing wrong with Faye taking the money that Melon offered. I don't understand how people are saying that Faye "took advantage" of Melon - to what length is one supposed to go to to refuse a freely-offered benefit to prove themselves "not a terrible person"? Hm? Hell, in my case, I hadn't done anything to receive the bed I was being offered - if Melon believes she received something worth paying for, and Faye is out of line in accepting, then what kind of parasitic monster would that imply I am?

And I *like* Melon, it's certainly not that I don't care what happens to her. She still offered payment, of her own choosing and her own prerogative, and it isn't Faye's responsibility to force her to not to do that.

As for Bubbles, my money's on Evie's crap, with a side of jealousy.
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Milayna

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #87 on: 17 Jan 2018, 22:16 »

ChipNoir: You have no idea what a "safe Space" is, yet feel qualified to pontificate about it. Ironically enough, that's the same kind of arrogance that you are criticizing in Evie.

Imagine you're a trans person. Everywhere you go, people are shitty. Ohhhhh believe ChipNoir, if you're a LGBTQ, or autistic, or POC, or what have you, you are QUITE AWARE that the world is shitty, thank you very FUCKING much. A "safe Space" is an area where you can be assured no one's going to, say, put a bullet between your eyes because you wanted to take a piss. You can be there, and for the briefest respite, know that people accept you, you are safe...until you have to venture out to where all the shitty people are, again.

A "Safe Space" isn't a place for white cis etc people to go to avoid rude people or people being shitty bigots to each other, though I'm sure that's a convenient notion for justifying your notion of the cloistered college campus.

"Safe Spaces" often exist on college campuses BECAUSE the environment brings together so many people who've experienced various forms of bigotry, and the students, far from running away, decided to CONFRONT that by establishing an area where bigoted threats are not tolerated.

And for the record, it isn't anybody's duty to educate you about such things. You are capable of learning about them on your own, if you truly care. I simply decided to do so of my own prerogative.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #88 on: 17 Jan 2018, 22:52 »

Someone with more recent first-hand experience feel free to correct me. but I was under the impression that universities were environments very aware of injustice and bigotry.

Which makes Evie hard to understand. Her research absolutely must have put her in touch with robophobic attitudes. Why doesn't she act more aware?

I don't hate her for over-intellectualizing around an injured person, but agree that such a degree of nerdery requires consent. Bubbles was politely but unmistakably signaling discomfort.

Evie should try to catch her in a different mood. Bubbles is educated and thoughtful. A conversation like Evie was trying to start could actually succeed.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #89 on: 17 Jan 2018, 23:22 »

Wow, I think that Evie must have really upset Bubbles but I don't think that it was anything that was said on Monday. I'm thinking that it was something that happened off-panel whilst Faye and Amanda were exploring the endless fields of wonder that is Melon.

Here's a prediction: Based on panel 4, I think that Faye is going to be so worried about Bubbles that she'll bail and go back early to see her. That's when we'll find out exactly what Evie said and Faye probably will want to make Bubbles feel better as a priority (that will probably happen next week).

It's possible that this may be a big breach between Amanda and Faye. Faye may never want to be around Evie again if she thinks she's been sufficiently thoughtlessly cruel to Bubbles and Amanda might make it a "love me, love my girlfriend" thing. Siblings have had long-running feuds for far less but that would, IMO, be something of a tragedy.

Someone with more recent first-hand experience feel free to correct me. but I was under the impression that universities were environments very aware of injustice and bigotry.

Which makes Evie hard to understand. Her research absolutely must have put her in touch with robophobic attitudes. Why doesn't she act more aware?

One of the first things most sciences of this type teach (intentionally or otherwise) is intellectual distance. You can't easily research and diagnose if your perceptions and intellect are cluttered with empathy. It's possible that Evie is so good at thinking about her insights as if she's researching an impersonal 'faceless other' that's she's more-or-less lost the ability to see the people behind the research at all.
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ChipNoir

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #90 on: 17 Jan 2018, 23:27 »

ChipNoir: You have no idea what a "safe Space" is, yet feel qualified to pontificate about it. Ironically enough, that's the same kind of arrogance that you are criticizing in Evie.

Imagine you're a trans person. Everywhere you go, people are shitty. Ohhhhh believe ChipNoir, if you're a LGBTQ, or autistic, or POC, or what have you, you are QUITE AWARE that the world is shitty, thank you very FUCKING much. A "safe Space" is an area where you can be assured no one's going to, say, put a bullet between your eyes because you wanted to take a piss. You can be there, and for the briefest respite, know that people accept you, you are safe...until you have to venture out to where all the shitty people are, again.

A "Safe Space" isn't a place for white cis etc people to go to avoid rude people or people being shitty bigots to each other, though I'm sure that's a convenient notion for justifying your notion of the cloistered college campus.

"Safe Spaces" often exist on college campuses BECAUSE the environment brings together so many people who've experienced various forms of bigotry, and the students, far from running away, decided to CONFRONT that by establishing an area where bigoted threats are not tolerated.

And for the record, it isn't anybody's duty to educate you about such things. You are capable of learning about them on your own, if you truly care. I simply decided to do so of my own prerogative.

The rub here is I am LGBT. Invisibly so, and full of privilege as white gay male, I grant you, but I grew up with violent displays of bigotry during my coming out days in high school, so yes, I know what what a relief Safe Spaces brings. But the problem is that safe space limits your exposure to how to handle those situations when you can't control your environment. You can't shout at a biggot and shame them into vanishing into a puff of evil smelling smoke.  This is something I've witnessed first hand with some younger friends that have come out of college, and gotten into nasty situations where they thought they could just shout down biggotry, and got VERY hurt, so perhaps this is giving me a biased view. I have to go with my own protective instincts on this, and what I see as not working to help people in the long run.

I really do feel like there's so much pressure to push that kind of stuff out that when graduated students are faced with it alone post-college, they're not going to have the tools and resources to deal with it except to lash out violently, be it physical violence, character assassination (Something I'm prone to doing a lot on social media till recently) I understand why; It's to protect what you hold to be important. But methods can actually destroy that.

I'm already seeing people comment that they want to punch Evie. That kinda visceral reaction happens when people don't have the resources to resolve a problem any other way, and I'm seeing more and more people take this kinda mentality when dealing with anything they perceive as a threat, which provides little long term solution. It just creates lines in the sand, and generational conflict. You can shame a biggot all you want, but it won't make them vanish into thin air.

Every time I see Bubbles encounter biggotry, I have a TON of admiration for her. She could have hurt a lot of people, and by a lot of people's moral beliefs today, that'd be accepted, because biggotry has no easier answer than to punch it in the jaw. But every time, even with the apex of evil that was Corpse Witch, she's taken the higher ground. It breaks my heart that Evie walks all over her deep rooted traumas unknowlingly, but I do think Bubble's approach to this is the best possible one. She controls her own agency, and she reaches out to people she knows will listen, and decides when where and IF she'll have a conflict with someone.  I really do admire that.

I want to amend this by stating that I do not claim you are wrong. You could very well be right, and I'm out of line. I'm even adding a like to your comment, because this is what I feel is more important than safe spaces: Talking with people, even if you think they're literally so wrong they might as well be saying the sky is green. One or both of us will think about this now, and reflect on how we think about the situation. I know I will, and that's far more important to me.
« Last Edit: 17 Jan 2018, 23:38 by ChipNoir »
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mercykills

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #91 on: 18 Jan 2018, 01:50 »

Someone with more recent first-hand experience feel free to correct me. but I was under the impression that universities were environments very aware of injustice and bigotry.

As a university educated person, a POC , and a person with a broken mental state, I can only offer you these three words: "Bigots Are Everywhere.".

And a few years at Uni are very rarely going to erase a lifetime of learned prejudices and hate. Thus the inherent problems with so called "safe spaces".

Thank, Fate, that foolishness was a few years after my time. >.>

Now, as I said above,  Evie is not an AI bigot, I believe, she's just excitable about a subject she's been studying forEVER(lol) and suffers from something I like to call "foot in mouth" diseases. Sure, you don't mean any harm but that won't cause you from causing it.
« Last Edit: 18 Jan 2018, 09:10 by mercykills »
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JoeCovenant

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #92 on: 18 Jan 2018, 02:30 »

Melon has a point. I was noticing that Faye and her sister are drawn exactly the same, except for hair, glasses and expressions.

There seems to be a sizing issue with them at times though.
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Covenant
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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #93 on: 18 Jan 2018, 02:40 »

...And I see nothing wrong with Faye taking the money that Melon offered. I don't understand how people are saying that Faye "took advantage" of Melon - to what length is one supposed to go to to refuse a freely-offered benefit to prove themselves "not a terrible person"?

That's an easy one.
"Is $100 Dollars enough?"
"Nah, that's WAY too much... gimme a $20."

(And even *that* would exploitation)

Faye's reaction showed quite clearly that she KNEW Melon had no idea how much she should be offering.
But she still took the money.

However... as someone stated above - this may well be an indication that Faye isn't doing too well financially - IE casting aside her moral compass to keep the cash she sorely needs, from someone who doesn't "know the value"... but it doesn't make it any less exploitative.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #94 on: 18 Jan 2018, 02:57 »

Oh man, I get to be the ray of positivity for once. I love it when this happens.

I'm calling her Ev for short, because I think it suits her, and it's easier to type. Moving briskly on.

I really like Ev. I think she's cool, she's been rolling with Faye's punches really well, we've seen her be generally positive and well meaning. Sure, she's said some stuff that Bubbles has taken the wrong way, but largely she's been very... gracious about it?

She's learning her audience by making mistakes there, and when Bubbles signals discomfort she doesn't backpedal hard, but she does clarify intent immediately rather than doubling down on it.

Basically, she takes Bubbles being uncomfortable about certain things seriously without pushing either of them into defensiveness.

Remember that Bubbles is a naturally defensive, wounded character. It might not be a reflection of Ev, but of Bubbles hangups getting poked. And there are so many other reasons Bubbles could feel weird right now, Ev being only one of them. Faye's sister, Bubbles seeing someone in a happy relationship with someone so Faye-like, them all openly ogling her, Bubbles having very low self esteem etc. etc. are all also things happening right now.

Remember. Ev can say things that are hurtful to Bubbles in a way that reflects more on Bubbles for being hurt, than Ev for being hurtful. That can just be a true thing.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #95 on: 18 Jan 2018, 03:04 »

MrNumbers, I just don't think anything she said is a problem of not knowing her audience. It's rude and dehumanising (although yeah I agree that this isn't the best word given the topic), not to mention that it is gross in a very familiar way, for one to talk over other's lived experiences to enforce their opinions or (likely flawed) studies.

edit - and I'm not saying that means she's the worst character or a bad person; I know people can get tied up in academics and forget that people aren't just statistics. I'm saying she is being objectively rude and offensive, whether or not she means to be
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A_Reasonable_Man

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #96 on: 18 Jan 2018, 03:16 »

fellas is it cool to make a black woman the strawman thoughtless academic in your story arc about racism/dehumanization of fake robot people

it seems like there might be some problems with that
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ImVeryAngryItsNotButter

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #97 on: 18 Jan 2018, 04:30 »

fellas is it cool to make a black woman the strawman thoughtless academic in your story arc about racism/dehumanization of fake robot people

it seems like there might be some problems with that

If anything, I think that might be the most appropriate choice for this arc. It sends the message that anyone can be bigoted, not just historically privileged peoples.
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dutchrvl

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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #98 on: 18 Jan 2018, 05:22 »

The comparison of AIs to nuclear weapons was too much. Can I please, please punch Evie? I want to punch her. She has just been irritating since she showed up. First saying that Faye was "negging" her, and just generally being a douche. She's super annoying.

Wow, new QC characters REALLY get hostile receptions these days.

Evie seems bright, pretty easygoing, and clearly has some issues when it comes to processing the humanity of AI entities in practice as opposed to on paper. Nobody's perfect. This is not a flaw that calls for being punched.  :\

Yeah, I'm with you on this.....I'm surprised and kind of shocked to see some people here exhibiting such hostility towards Evie.
I recently left academia after almost 20 years in it in multiple countries, and while I agree that there are many stuck-up, head-in-ass academics, I would at the moment certainly not place Evie in that category. She is overexcited about her research and clearly has not quite learned yet how to reconcile her interest/knowledge in AI psychology with appropriate interactions with AIs to not inadvertently dehumanize them. I don't see any ill intent or any of the typical academic arrogance in her (yet).

A desire for physical violence towards her seems somewhat....disturbing, but that's just my two cents.

As for Bubbles' current state of mind, I am also curious to see if this perhaps has to do with Faye taking advantage of Melon instead of whatever Evie may have said. Since Melon specifically asked whether $100 was an appropriate amount, any ethically sound business would point out that that's too much. If after pointing that out Melon would still like to give $100, then that's fine. Now it just looks as exploiting somebody's naivete, which is not a good look.
Plus, it's a bad business decision in the long run too, because if Melon finds out that she way overpaid and spreads word about it, that could likely hurt Union Robotics.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3656-3660 (15th to 19th January 2018)
« Reply #99 on: 18 Jan 2018, 05:23 »

I honestly want to punch Evie. I immediately disliked her from the start and the way she's treating Bubbles is shitty. She reminds me of every stuck up, head up their ass academic I've ever come across. Gross.

Guess it must be frustrating to see how often ones' knee-jerk antipathy and prejudices against members of a despised out-group turn out to be perfectly justified by the behaviour of fictionalized descriptions of members of said group in serialized comedic media.

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