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Poll

Marigold. Foot. Mouth. Extraction method?

She realizes she made a mistake and apologizes.
- 1 (1.9%)
She buries her head under the covers until Momo forces her to apologize.
- 18 (34.6%)
She runs off and joins Hanners on her quest for self-fulfillment.
- 2 (3.8%)
She stubbornly refuses to acknowledge she screwed up, shoe-leather-aftertaste be damned!
- 15 (28.8%)
Purple Monkey Dishwashers.
- 7 (13.5%)
Spathe Ham.
- 4 (7.7%)
Something else.
- 5 (9.6%)

Total Members Voted: 52


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Author Topic: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)  (Read 15131 times)

Penquin47

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #200 on: 22 Feb 2018, 21:09 »

Who the Hell would allow May to even OWN a tanto, let alone play with it openly?

Isn't she still on probation? Wouldn't that be a violation thereof? Of course, she was eye-fucking the pages of "Jet Fighter Weekly" earlier.

It's probably Dale's.  We know he has a sword because that's how May ripped her face off.
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Neko_Ali

Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #201 on: 22 Feb 2018, 22:05 »

FIRST RULE OF RELATIONSHIPS:

The guy apologizes FIRST.

Which is a sexist way of thinking of the subject, which means of course it's far to common and part of the problem.
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Case

Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #202 on: 22 Feb 2018, 22:07 »

I like how completely unfazed Dale is at May's semi-unsheathing that tanto.


(Please, Jeph, don't let him build that melon-comparison into his apology to Marigold ...)


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jwhouk

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #203 on: 22 Feb 2018, 22:25 »

May has a thing for boobs, it appears.

Sent from my NXA8QC116 using Tapatalk

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #204 on: 22 Feb 2018, 22:37 »

I like how completely unfazed Dale is at May's semi-unsheathing that tanto.
Who else could be his kaishakunin? :wink:  More good advice from May, whichever teaching-aids she employs.
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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #205 on: 22 Feb 2018, 22:55 »

It's settled then: Dale's line is "how could I prefer Emily to you when you've got such massive tits?"
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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #206 on: 22 Feb 2018, 23:23 »

I think that Jeph realised that May was being so intelligent and insightful that she would want to say something inappropriate at the end, just to remind Dale who she is. It probably says something about Dale that he actually agrees with her fundamental point.

So, am I the only one that is unaccountably concerned about May unsheathing that knife a little when she got annoyed with Dale? I don't think that she's the sort who will be violent but it does make me wonder if her face was damaged by a sword falling on her or whether she was swinging it around in anger at the way her arm was mucking her around. I'm saying that maybe she has a temper and maybe sometimes it gets the better of her!

I know that there is an animé called 'Magical Love Gentleman' or something like it but is there anything IRL like 'Crab Girlfriend'?
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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #207 on: 22 Feb 2018, 23:42 »

There's a dating sim called "Hatoful Boyfriend," a pun on the English (...ish...) "heartful," about a human girl stranded in a word of pigeons (hato).
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Tova

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #208 on: 23 Feb 2018, 00:35 »

Actually, the way Momo and May are addressing it odd entirely to me. Like Momo referred to it as just an issue of miscommunication. Marigold imagining Emily and Dale fucking just because they were laughing when she came in is not a "miscommunication" issue. That is a deeper issue, and it feels bizarre to me that it is being glossed over, even by the person giving her advice.

Well yes, it's an insecurity issue, and that's a conversation to be had with Dale, not with Momo.

We also don't know how much they discussed that before we see panel one.
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brightwings00

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #209 on: 23 Feb 2018, 01:52 »

It works well, if the other person has self-awareness. Marigold has never shown an inkling of self-awareness. Based on her personality as written so far, I'd be honestly surprised if her reaction wasn't "Dale apologized, therefore everything is good now." And then didn't acknowledge any of her own shortcomings. Even when Momo tried to point out her shortcoming in communicating properly, she deflected it rather than face it. And then, to add in, that no one seems to be addressing that the level of jealousy and how upset she got was not a healthy reaction at all to begin with.

If I remember rightly, she did realize she was being a jerk to Momo way back when... eventually. Marigold's got all the social skills of a doorknob, but I do think her heart's in the right place.

And the thing is: people sometimes have feelings like jealousy and resentment and anger, and they may not be healthy or fair or even logical. But feelings don't work according to dictum. I would submit that it's okay to feel things--even the bad feelings that aren't nice or kind--that in fact it's healthier to acknowledge feelings and sit with them, without judging yourself, rather than go "Nope nope nope, I'm not jealous, it's cool! I'm fine! I'm totally the cool girl!" and try and suppress those feelings into oblivion.

Note there is a distinct--and important--difference between feeling things and how you act on those feelings and deal with them. I have sympathy for Marigold's insecurity and jealousy; I would have much, much less sympathy for her, say, forbidding him from talking to Emily or snooping on his texts/emails. And there definitely needs to be a talk--hopefully with Momo or Winslow, or hilariously with May--about healthy coping mechanisms. But judging someone for feeling insecure, I think, not only doesn't acknowledge a very human flaw but compounds the problem.

(Also, to quote Jon Snow, King in the North, First Of His Name, etc.: "Everything before the word 'but' is horse s***." If Dale goes in with the attitude/phrasing of "I'm sorry I said that to you, but your attitude was really uncalled for", the part about "I'm sorry I said that to you" is going to vanish in the wind.)

Side note: has May ever met Bubbles? Have they/could they talk about fighter jets?
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brightwings00

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #210 on: 23 Feb 2018, 01:55 »

So, am I the only one that is unaccountably concerned about May unsheathing that knife a little when she got annoyed with Dale? I don't think that she's the sort who will be violent but it does make me wonder if her face was damaged by a sword falling on her or whether she was swinging it around in anger at the way her arm was mucking her around. I'm saying that maybe she has a temper and maybe sometimes it gets the better of her!

*whispers* ...faaaace meeeeats...
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Tova

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #211 on: 23 Feb 2018, 02:06 »

It works well, if the other person has self-awareness. Marigold has never shown an inkling of self-awareness. Based on her personality as written so far, I'd be honestly surprised if her reaction wasn't "Dale apologized, therefore everything is good now." And then didn't acknowledge any of her own shortcomings. Even when Momo tried to point out her shortcoming in communicating properly, she deflected it rather than face it. And then, to add in, that no one seems to be addressing that the level of jealousy and how upset she got was not a healthy reaction at all to begin with.

Well, even if it isn't addressed in the immediate aftermath (which I doubt actually, but it's possible), that's not the end of it. There will be further opportunities for Dale to start a conversation about it in less threatening circumstances.

You're quite focused on the fact that her level of jealousy is not healthy. I mean, do you really need it spelled out in the comic? It's pretty clear that it's not healthy. I don't think simply telling her that is going to solve the problem. A little patience will be required here. As you said yourself, this is a deep issue.
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JimC

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #212 on: 23 Feb 2018, 02:36 »

Wouldn't an outside perspective offer insight that we might have missed?
Also think about the quality of the advice frequently offered by humans to humans... I abso-bloody-lutely guarantee that in 100years time social mores and conventions will have changed so much that the average agony aunt advice from today will look just as frigging ridiculous and even dangerous as the advice their predecessors were handing out 100 years ago looks today.
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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #213 on: 23 Feb 2018, 02:57 »

Wouldn't an outside perspective offer insight that we might have missed?
Also think about the quality of the advice frequently offered by humans to humans... I abso-bloody-lutely guarantee that in 100years time social mores and conventions will have changed so much that the average agony aunt advice from today will look just as frigging ridiculous and even dangerous as the advice their predecessors were handing out 100 years ago looks today.

Nothing to do with the current topic...
But I LOVE Jim's assertion that he can guarantee we (humans) will all still be around in 100 years time!  :)
 :parrot:
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BlueFatima

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #214 on: 23 Feb 2018, 03:35 »

Like I said, come in apologizing, but you can't just not have the conversation.

Actually, the way Momo and May are addressing it odd entirely to me. Like Momo referred to it as just an issue of miscommunication. Marigold imagining Emily and Dale fucking just because they were laughing when she came in is not a "miscommunication" issue. That is a deeper issue, and it feels bizarre to me that it is being glossed over, even by the person giving her advice.

I agree. I also think their advice is off the mark. Both of them (mostly Momo, but May is doing it today) have been making it out that Dale is *settling* for Marigold, and that Emily is out of his league. That is *horrible* advice to anyone who has an jealous/insecure partner and/or a jealous/insecure moment. The Gundam suit analogy is not only insensitive, but a lousy analogy. Gundam suits are either imaginary or (in QC's world) very expensive, and are thus unattainable for Marigold to chose from so she can't choose one over Dale (though she implied she would if given the choice). That is possibly not true with Emily and definitely not with other potential girls. Dale *does* really have a choice—if not with Emily then some other "hot" looking girl who could be interested in him. It's not like there aren't, and it's not even impossible that Emily could be interested in him. And "tasty as hell" versus simply "good" is not a great comparison. If you are going that route, you'd need to say apples are your *favorite*—though this advice seems more in character for May (though she's offered decent advice before this point—even in other arcs) than it did when Momo was offering it. Dale needs to make it clear he chose May and what he loves about her. It doesn't hurt to point out why Emily isn't his type as well versus making it all about "I ended up with you."
« Last Edit: 23 Feb 2018, 03:41 by BlueFatima »
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Tova

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #215 on: 23 Feb 2018, 04:12 »

Like I said, come in apologizing, but you can't just not have the conversation.

Actually, the way Momo and May are addressing it odd entirely to me. Like Momo referred to it as just an issue of miscommunication. Marigold imagining Emily and Dale fucking just because they were laughing when she came in is not a "miscommunication" issue. That is a deeper issue, and it feels bizarre to me that it is being glossed over, even by the person giving her advice.

I agree. I also think their advice is off the mark. Both of them (mostly Momo, but May is doing it today) have been making it out that Dale is *settling* for Marigold, and that Emily is out of his league.

I don't think that's what they are saying or even implying at all.
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Pennepasta

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #216 on: 23 Feb 2018, 04:32 »


I don't think that's what they are saying or even implying at all.

Really? I get that vibe from Momo, with the "Well, you'd rather have a pilotable Gundam than him!" in response to claims of him preferring Emily, giving a strong inference that Emily is unattainable for Dale in a similar way that a pilotable Gundam would be for Marigold. Also, "He cares for you very much!" is a... weak counterargument to "He'd rather be with someone else than me", again implying that there's no solid argument against Dale preferring Emily, but she's just out of his league.
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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #217 on: 23 Feb 2018, 04:46 »

Like I said, come in apologizing, but you can't just not have the conversation.

Actually, the way Momo and May are addressing it odd entirely to me. Like Momo referred to it as just an issue of miscommunication. Marigold imagining Emily and Dale fucking just because they were laughing when she came in is not a "miscommunication" issue. That is a deeper issue, and it feels bizarre to me that it is being glossed over, even by the person giving her advice.

I agree. I also think their advice is off the mark. Both of them (mostly Momo, but May is doing it today) have been making it out that Dale is *settling* for Marigold, and that Emily is out of his league.

I don't think that's what they are saying or even implying at all.

tbf, it is a little bit. But that's okay. I've heard it explained like this: People have a (conscious and subconscious) list of things they look for in a partner- let's say 10 things. Often that list includes things that are inherently contradictory- safe and exciting, for example, or funny and serious. So finding someone who is 10 out of 10 is essentially possible, But when we find ourselves with someone who scores 7 say, we find we are perfectly happy and content so we cheerfully compromise. But we do still miss those missing 3 things, so when we see someone else who has them, we may think we've found our perfect 10 because they fill in the gaps, without stopping to see if they actually are all that.
(spoilers: they probably wont be.)
The key seems to be to remind yourself of all the things that you do love abut your partner, and focus on those. That certainly seems to be the gist of May's advice.

For the record, I am talking about relationships where things are normally fine and happy. If a relationship is actively making you miserable, you are absolutely not obligated to stay.
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ckridge

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #218 on: 23 Feb 2018, 04:56 »

This whole story arc is shaping up as pedantic and moralistic, with the humans falling into sin and error and their wise robot companions setting them back on the path of righteousness. I have no problem with teaching or with morals, but it is all being told with a very heavy hand. A 20th-century humorist wrote about Hopalong Freud characters who ride into town and explain everyone to themselves and to each other. The robots are acting as Hopalong Freud here.

More could have been done with Emily as a person, rather than as an occasion of sin. More could have been done with Dale and Marigold examining their feelings toward each other, rather with each treating themselves and each other as off-the-shelf, mass-market, boy/girl-friends with standardized properties. More could have been done with the robots' own feelings of possessiveness, defensiveness, jealousy, and chronic irritation toward their human companions. As matters stand, I fear that we will be left with no more than several mostly-true-much-of-the-time lectures about how to manage jealousy.
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WoaLG

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #219 on: 23 Feb 2018, 05:16 »

This whole story arc is shaping up as pedantic and moralistic, with the humans falling into sin and error and their wise robot companions setting them back on the path of righteousness.

I'm about 104% sure that that's not at all what Jeph is going for. I don't think it has anything to do with robots vs humans. But May is Dale's best (non-Marigold) friend and Momo is Marigold's best (non-Dale) friend. Plus, since they're roommates, they're probably the first friends that Dale and Marigold see. (Since I can't imagine either of them going out socializing when they're hurting. They're both the kind of people to go home and nurse their wounds.)

And there have been arcs dealing with the companion AIs' feelings about their "owner" spending less time with them and more with other friends. I can't recall the page numbers, but I vaguely remember Pintsize just shrugging and Momo expressing happiness that Marigold was making new friends, which she'd been encouraging.

As for Emily, there have been several arcs where Emily is expanded on as a person, but this particular arc is being told from Marigold and Dale's Point of View and everybody's the main character in their own story. The story being told here is about jealousy and trust, not about a cheating boyfriend, so I don't see what more Emily needs to have done in this instance.

I'm not sure how to interpret the rest of your post about mass-market boy/girl-friends with standardized properties, but I'm pretty sure your fears are groundless.
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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #220 on: 23 Feb 2018, 05:17 »

More could have been done with Dale and Marigold examining their feelings toward each other,

That's coming - remember how slowly Jeph's story arcs build (and if that doesn't suit you, or tries your patience too far, then maybe this is the wrong comic for you).
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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #221 on: 23 Feb 2018, 05:58 »

Hopefully after they make up they can sort out the undelying problems so we don't end up http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1798.
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BenRG

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #222 on: 23 Feb 2018, 06:05 »

I'm just visualising the strip when this all gets back to Emily.

EMILY (to a 'deer in the headlights' DALE): "So you think I'm pretty?"

DALE nods

DALE: "Well... Yeah! I mean... Doesn't everyone?"

EMILY (to a totally shocked MARIGOLD): "And you think I'm pretty too?"

MARIGOLD: "What? Yes! No! Not like that! I mean... Yes, if you're into girls... I think?"

One panel of EMILY with a weird thoughtful expression and then...

EMILY glomping DALE and MARIGOLD at the same time

EMILY: "Oh I'm so happy! No-one has ever said I'm pretty before!"

DALE: "Hurf?"

MARIGOLD: "Durf?"
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ckridge

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #223 on: 23 Feb 2018, 06:52 »

That's coming - remember how slowly Jeph's story arcs build (and if that doesn't suit you, or tries your patience too far, then maybe this is the wrong comic for you).

I am quite capable of deciding for myself whether and when to stop reading, thank you.

This arc could quite plausibly wrap to a close with another Momo/Marigold session, three strips of reconciliation, and a joke. This would be forgivable. Every narrative needs interludes in which not much happens to lower tension and provide plausible amounts of time between crises. It would be unfortunate, though, because it would suggest that there is a standard love relationship that works by standard rules. Life would be simpler if that were so, but it's just not. 

A sudden spasm of jealous fear is a sudden spasm of fear, and the appropriate short-term response is comfort. In order to decide whether jealousy is appropriate, though, people have to decide how they want to be together. Neither Dale nor Marigold have stopped to examine their feelings and figure out what they want to do, or to explain this to each other.

I really want them to decide that they are having a romantic, exclusive, intense, permanent love relationship that is the most important thing in their lives, because why would anyone jump off a cliff except in hope of flying? Not everyone sees love as jumping off a cliff, though, not everyone sees monogamous romantic love as flying, and therefore not everyone should want what I do. What everyone must do, however, is figure out what they do want and make sure the other person wants the same thing. As unpleasant as it is, you have to look into the depths of your swampy, overgrown, monster-infested heart and figure out which of those various flickering lights moving around in it you are setting your course by. As yet, no one in this arc has done this.

This is particularly important because each of them is the other's first sweetheart, and how they treat each other now is likely to form their ability to love and be loved in the future.
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Neko_Ali

Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #224 on: 23 Feb 2018, 07:27 »

Side note: has May ever met Bubbles? Have they/could they talk about fighter jets?

Yes, early on at the party Faye threw to try and draw Bubbles out of her shell. May's reaction was pretty much throwing  up her arms and going 'My Queen!' and insisting that she get pictures when Bubbles and Faye started boning. Honestly I don't know if it's just she's lucky sometimes or better at sussing out early relationships than we give her credit for.
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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #225 on: 23 Feb 2018, 07:54 »

Hopefully after they make up they can sort out the undelying problems so we don't end up http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1798.

The thing is, this is the advice that it feels like Dale is getting. Go in, smooth it over. No advice on you know, how to deal with the root problem that started the fight. And Marigold doesn't even seem to realize that her jealousy IS a problem, and no one seems to want to point it out either.

Seriously. Every person that Dale works with at Coffee of Doom is an attractive woman. If Marigold gets like that every time that he seems to be having a good time hanging out with one of them at work, this is just going to be a revolving door.

People seem to be thinking that I'm saying that people need to tell her to just get over it. Which is, of course, ridiculous. It takes more effort and time than that. But she doesn't seem to see the issue, and no one is making a point of telling her. Momo literally said that the issue was just miscommunication on both sides.
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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #226 on: 23 Feb 2018, 07:55 »

Side note: has May ever met Bubbles? Have they/could they talk about fighter jets?

Yes, early on at the party Faye threw to try and draw Bubbles out of her shell. May's reaction was pretty much throwing  up her arms and going 'My Queen!' and insisting that she get pictures when Bubbles and Faye started boning. Honestly I don't know if it's just she's lucky sometimes or better at sussing out early relationships than we give her credit for.

That was Momo's reaction. May's reaction was commenting on possible uses for Bubbles' posterior.
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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #227 on: 23 Feb 2018, 08:38 »

Like I said, come in apologizing, but you can't just not have the conversation.

Actually, the way Momo and May are addressing it odd entirely to me. Like Momo referred to it as just an issue of miscommunication. Marigold imagining Emily and Dale fucking just because they were laughing when she came in is not a "miscommunication" issue. That is a deeper issue, and it feels bizarre to me that it is being glossed over, even by the person giving her advice.

I agree. I also think their advice is off the mark. Both of them (mostly Momo, but May is doing it today) have been making it out that Dale is *settling* for Marigold, and that Emily is out of his league.

I don't think that's what they are saying or even implying at all.

tbf, it is a little bit. But that's okay. I've heard it explained like this: People have a (conscious and subconscious) list of things they look for in a partner- let's say 10 things. Often that list includes things that are inherently contradictory- safe and exciting, for example, or funny and serious. So finding someone who is 10 out of 10 is essentially possible, But when we find ourselves with someone who scores 7 say, we find we are perfectly happy and content so we cheerfully compromise. But we do still miss those missing 3 things, so when we see someone else who has them, we may think we've found our perfect 10 because they fill in the gaps, without stopping to see if they actually are all that.
(spoilers: they probably wont be.)
The key seems to be to remind yourself of all the things that you do love abut your partner, and focus on those. That certainly seems to be the gist of May's advice.

For the record, I am talking about relationships where things are normally fine and happy. If a relationship is actively making you miserable, you are absolutely not obligated to stay.


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Case

Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #228 on: 23 Feb 2018, 09:46 »

Nothing to do with the current topic...
But I LOVE Jim's assertion that he can guarantee we (humans) will all still be around in 100 years time!  :)
 :parrot:

Joe, you're scaring the kids Millennials with that Gen-Xer existential realism cynicism ...

(exeunt stage left, softly whistling the intro to "I don't mind at all ..." )
« Last Edit: 23 Feb 2018, 13:04 by Case »
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swapna

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #229 on: 23 Feb 2018, 11:26 »


I don't think that's what they are saying or even implying at all.

Really? I get that vibe from Momo, with the "Well, you'd rather have a pilotable Gundam than him!" in response to claims of him preferring Emily, giving a strong inference that Emily is unattainable for Dale in a similar way that a pilotable Gundam would be for Marigold. Also, "He cares for you very much!" is a... weak counterargument to "He'd rather be with someone else than me", again implying that there's no solid argument against Dale preferring Emily, but she's just out of his league.
Tbh, I got the 'Dale is settling for Marigold' vibe too, from May and Momo, which is weird. Dale actively pursued Marigold, in his weird stalker way, and didn't give up when she rejected him a few different ways. I am also not entirely sure how Dale manages to be that socially inept, since he had a lot of jobs, usually with customer interaction (Pharmacy, Pizza delivery, Coffee shop..).

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Castlerook

Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #230 on: 23 Feb 2018, 12:54 »


I don't think that's what they are saying or even implying at all.

Really? I get that vibe from Momo, with the "Well, you'd rather have a pilotable Gundam than him!" in response to claims of him preferring Emily, giving a strong inference that Emily is unattainable for Dale in a similar way that a pilotable Gundam would be for Marigold. Also, "He cares for you very much!" is a... weak counterargument to "He'd rather be with someone else than me", again implying that there's no solid argument against Dale preferring Emily, but she's just out of his league.
Tbh, I got the 'Dale is settling for Marigold' vibe too, from May and Momo, which is weird. Dale actively pursued Marigold, in his weird stalker way, and didn't give up when she rejected him a few different ways. I am also not entirely sure how Dale manages to be that socially inept, since he had a lot of jobs, usually with customer interaction (Pharmacy, Pizza delivery, Coffee shop..).

Dale sticking his foot into his mouth with his girlfriend doesn't use the same skill set as customer service. There's a level of professionalism need when dealing with customers, which you can sum up as smiling and not be rude to a stranger (believe me, I know this a gross oversimplification but I don't have time to get into the minutiae), whereas we tend to let our guard down around the people we care about and fuck things up without intending to.

Now, I don't think this is a "One settled for the other" type of storylines. However, I do think its a story about 2 young people who (from what we know) have never been a serious relationship before. This is first major fight we've seen between Marigold and Dale, partially brought on by Marigold's insecurities rearing their ugly heads and partially brought on by Dale's lack of experience with the opposite sex.

The key theme of this arc seems to be learning to being able to communicate with your partner in a clear manner. Dale and Marigold are two young people who need to learn how to communicate as adults.
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Emperor Norton

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #231 on: 23 Feb 2018, 13:49 »

It keeps being framed about learning to communicate better, but honestly, the situation presented is not that.

On Dale's side, sure, but on Marigold's side, this isn't about communicating, this is about learning to control your feelings.

Also, I think the thing that is being left out when people talk about Dale having no social skills is that that is pretty false. He has no knowledge of dating, but outside of that, he has mostly seemed to get along really well with everyone (I mean, wasn't his introduction that he knew the secret menu?). And the way he interacted with May was not someone lacking in social skills.

Not understanding dating isn't the same thing. (Marigold is much more in the vein of not understanding social skils)
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Neko_Ali

Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #232 on: 23 Feb 2018, 14:37 »

A lot could have been avoided if Marigold had told Dale she was feeling kind of jealous instead of leading questions about how great he thinks Emily is.
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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #233 on: 23 Feb 2018, 14:41 »

A lot could have been avoided if Marigold had told Dale she was feeling kind of jealous instead of leading questions about how great he thinks Emily is.

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Tova

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #234 on: 23 Feb 2018, 15:30 »

You got some people who're apples, and some who're oranges ...

I don't understand how some people interpreted May's speech (quoted in part above, see the comic for the whole thing) as saying that Dale is settling. She's referring to apples and oranges. Are you unfamiliar with this idiom? Concluding that Emily must therefore be superior to Marigold and Dale is settling is the exact opposite of what the idiom means.
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Tova

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #235 on: 23 Feb 2018, 15:36 »

On Dale's side, sure, but on Marigold's side, this isn't about communicating, this is about learning to control your feelings.

I'm being finicky, or maybe I'm misinterpreting you, but it's about developing self-esteem and security in the relationship. It's also about expressing her feelings more effectively and confidently, which is where the communication part comes in.

I think that feeling intensely jealous but controlling her feelings (aka bottling them up) is less healthy than what we've already seen.
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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #236 on: 23 Feb 2018, 17:48 »

This, right here, is where a lot of relationships fail.  And I don't just mean romantic relationships, I mean all kinds, between two (or more) people.

No, it's not fair.  In this messy, sticky world, it is often going to be the case that it is not possible for both/all involved parties to be 100% fair and equitable to each other at all times.  There will inevitably come a point where someone is asked to give "more than their fair share".
In that situation, you basically have two choices(*) - you end the relationship there, or you extend trust and give more than you "should", hoping that at some point in the future, when you need someone else to be "unfair" in your favor, they will.
On such sacrifices and compromises are couples, families, tribes and societies built.

(* the astute will note that these are the same choices available to a player of Prisoner's Dilemma, and the same game theory and suggestions on optimal play apply.)
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Perfectly Reasonable

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #237 on: 23 Feb 2018, 18:41 »

The point has been made that unless Marigold gets a boost to her self esteem, the present situation is apt to recur. So what are Marigold's good points?

She has good webmastery and sysadmin skills. She has a curvy bod that looks great in a bikini. She plays tons of video games. So in game, she's great sizing up a situation and reacting appropriately.
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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #238 on: 23 Feb 2018, 20:35 »

She's a geek, she's into gaming, she's into anime. She's got skills. Those are extremely attractive attributes to Dale (not to mention the curvy bod).

Dale and Emily get on well in a work situation. That doesn't necessarily translate into relationship material.
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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #239 on: 23 Feb 2018, 21:10 »

I do think it would be interesting, from a storytelling perspective, for Dale to be clear that he’s not settling for Marigold. Like, I kinda felt like Momo was being a bit condescending — to me, her analogy implied that Dale is with Marigold because she’s what’s available/real, vs what he wants. It makes me wonder whether Momo respects Marigold as a worthwhile person, or whether Momo still sees Marigold as a duty she’s taken on as a companion AI.

Also, there’s still Chekov’s pocky setting up the good girlfriend test for Marigold.
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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #240 on: 24 Feb 2018, 05:44 »

So what are Marigold's good points?

She is a hardcore geek girl. She is a hardcore geek girl who likes boys. She is a hardcore geek girl who likes boys and who has not been so mutilated by the girl mutilation machinery as to be incapable of sexual pleasure. Those are like gold, like the golden apples of the sun, like Helen of Troy. They are one of life's great prizes.  Marigold has as yet no idea that this is the case. If Dale fucks this up, Marigold is going to wind up with two or three sweethearts stacked up in holding patterns, and he is going to spend the rest of his life wondering what in the world he was thinking of.


« Last Edit: 24 Feb 2018, 05:52 by ckridge »
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Emperor Norton

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #241 on: 24 Feb 2018, 07:16 »

Do people really think that becoming incredibly noticeably angry because your boyfriend is laughing at something an attractive female coworker said to him, at work, isn't a problem that needs to be worked on?

This isn't something that communicating better is going to fix.

(I also agree that Momo's wording very much makes it sound like Dale is settling, and May's wording while I think she doesn't mean it that way, "tasty as hell" vs "good, too" does make it not sound like an equal but different comparison. I mean, if someone was like, which of these two dishes do you want, this one is tasty as hell, and this one is good, too, which would you think the person offering liked more?)
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Emperor Norton

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #242 on: 24 Feb 2018, 07:22 »

On Dale's side, sure, but on Marigold's side, this isn't about communicating, this is about learning to control your feelings.

I'm being finicky, or maybe I'm misinterpreting you, but it's about developing self-esteem and security in the relationship. It's also about expressing her feelings more effectively and confidently, which is where the communication part comes in.

I think that feeling intensely jealous but controlling her feelings (aka bottling them up) is less healthy than what we've already seen.

Controlling your feelings is not bottling them up. Its not letting them control you. If someone started throwing punches when they were angry and I said "you need to control your emotions" would you assume I meant to bottle it up?

She became immediately, noticeably irratated/angry. She had zero contemplation over whether what she was feeling was rational. She immediately just jumped to a conclusion "Dale prefers Emily to me" and then everything she did revolved around that conclusion, driven solely by emotion. Even when Momo tried to talk to her about it just being a miscommunication, she still jumped to that conclusion, again, not considering that she could be anything but right about it. And she honestly has zero contemplation about how her emotions/actions are affecting Dale. Notice that Dale's questions to May are "how do I fix this" whereas Marigold is more concerned about how she feels.

Controlling your emotions is not about bottling up your emotions, its about examining them.
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brightwings00

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #243 on: 24 Feb 2018, 07:40 »

Controlling your feelings is not bottling them up. Its not letting them control you. If someone started throwing punches when they were angry and I said "you need to control your emotions" would you assume I meant to bottle it up?

I mean, strictly speaking, the problem isn't they're angry, the problem is that they're throwing punches. If every time they were furious they sat quietly in a chair and did nothing, that would suck for themselves, personally, but there wouldn't be a problem with other people. In your situation I'd go with "hey, stop hitting people" and then a talk about why exactly they're so angry and how they can better handle it.

Quote from: Emperor Norton
She had zero contemplation over whether what she was feeling was rational. She immediately just jumped to a conclusion "Dale prefers Emily to me" and then everything she did revolved around that conclusion, driven solely by emotion. Even when Momo tried to talk to her about it just being a miscommunication, she still jumped to that conclusion, again, not considering that she could be anything but right about it. And she honestly has zero contemplation about how her emotions/actions are affecting Dale. Notice that Dale's questions to May are "how do I fix this" whereas Marigold is more concerned about how she feels.

Feelings aren't rational, though! Believe me, as someone with multiple phobias, I would love to be able to logic my way out of panic attacks, but feelings don't work that way. People feel things, and they may not be nice or fair or reasonable or logical, but they still feel those things, and that's okay! It's okay to feel things. Marigold is allowed to feel jealous. She's not entitled to act like a jerk about feeling jealous, but honestly, if her worst behaviour is asking some pointed questions before storming off in a huff, that's pretty freaking tame. She's not some hideous monster for feeling things.
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Emperor Norton

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #244 on: 24 Feb 2018, 08:08 »

I am honestly baffled that "hey, check your emotions and try and make sure that they aren't controlling you" is getting blowback.

And no one called Marigold a monster. I've repeatedly said that my issue is that NO ONE in the comic is actually bringing up that that level of jealousy is a problem in and of itself. If you can't handle your SO talking to a coworker and laughing because they happen to be pretty, then there is some fundamental problem that you need to work on. That is not healthy. It's a disproportionate reaction to a frankly benign circumstance.

If I got angry enough to stomp out of the room every time my wife put the Milk in the door of the fridge rather than the main compartment, would you think that that is reasonable and that there is no burden on me to learn to deal with something so small and petty?
« Last Edit: 24 Feb 2018, 09:06 by Emperor Norton »
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brightwings00

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #245 on: 24 Feb 2018, 09:28 »

I am honestly baffled that "hey, check your emotions and try and make sure that they aren't controlling you" is getting blowback.

And no one called Marigold a monster. I've repeatedly said that my issue is that NO ONE in the comic is actually bringing up that that level of jealousy is a problem in and of itself. If you can't handle your SO talking to a coworker and laughing because they happen to be pretty, then there is some fundamental problem that you need to work on. That is not healthy. It's a disproportionate reaction to a frankly benign circumstance.

If I got angry enough to stomp out of the room every time my wife put the Milk in the door of the fridge rather than the main compartment, would you think that that is reasonable and that there is no burden on me to learn to deal with something so small and petty?

Yes, because I have personally experienced the horror of goopy half-solid milk that's gone bad.

More seriously, though, I'm not saying that Marigold doesn't need to learn healthy coping mechanisms, for her own sake and for everyone's sake around her. Nor is she justified in lashing out or treating anyone poorly. I'm saying the most effective therapy sessions I've ever had were where the therapist let me vent, no matter what awful stuff I said--stuff that I would feel terrible about saying to anybody's face, stuff that I don't even really believe--and didn't judge me for it, but let me sit with the anger and resentment, acknowledged it, and then talked me through it. If my therapist had said "Wow, that's really horrible, how can you think like that?", I guarantee you I would've clammed up tight and suppressed everything into a tiny ball until it exploded.
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Emperor Norton

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #246 on: 24 Feb 2018, 09:40 »

Well, of course, you don't say "Wow that is horrible."

I would probably approach it by reversing the situation.

Something like "Well, what if Angus was visiting, and Dale saw you laughing at something Angus said, and he got upset and stomped out when you said you thought he was funny/smart/handsome whatever in response to some questions? Angus is a funny guy, I mean, his job is to be funny. And he's good-looking, and he is pretty smart."

Marigold is not empathetic and is self-absorbed. And it has nothing to do with malice, intent, or being a bad person or anything like that. When she is made aware of how what she is doing is affecting others, she tends to do the right thing, she just doesn't tend to think from other people's perspective at all. And no one seems to be helping her see how what she is doing is affecting others.
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Is it cold in here?

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #247 on: 24 Feb 2018, 09:48 »

The robots are acting as Hopalong Freud here.

My wife compares their emotional and dramatic role to that of servants in 17th century French plays.

I was so in awe of her nerdhood that I didn't ask what she meant.
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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #248 on: 24 Feb 2018, 09:59 »

On Dale's side, sure, but on Marigold's side, this isn't about communicating, this is about learning to control your feelings.

I'm being finicky, or maybe I'm misinterpreting you, but it's about developing self-esteem and security in the relationship. It's also about expressing her feelings more effectively and confidently, which is where the communication part comes in.

I think that feeling intensely jealous but controlling her feelings (aka bottling them up) is less healthy than what we've already seen.

To me, developing self esteem and security, and expressing feelings instead of what Marigold did, are emotional self-control. They are the strategic version, where an example of tactical control is breaking contact and taking a long walk when angry.

It all takes skill and practice. Marigold's had neither. She's causing unnecessary damage but it's understandable, whether or not it's excusable.

Trying to deny or freeze feelings, which I think is what you mean by "bottling them up", I agree is less healthy. It also doesn't work in the long run.

EDIT: added a badly needed comma.
« Last Edit: 24 Feb 2018, 10:23 by Is it cold in here? »
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brightwings00

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Re: WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)
« Reply #249 on: 24 Feb 2018, 10:03 »

Well, of course, you don't say "Wow that is horrible."

I would probably approach it by reversing the situation.

Something like "Well, what if Angus was visiting, and Dale saw you laughing at something Angus said, and he got upset and stomped out when you said you thought he was funny/smart/handsome whatever in response to some questions? Angus is a funny guy, I mean, his job is to be funny. And he's good-looking, and he is pretty smart."

True, and the talking-it-through-and-being-reasonable part is important. I think it's just important not to suppress or bottle up feelings in favour of being reasonable (which puts you in the 'cool girl' situation)--that it's healthy to let it out in a controlled environment and talk about it and be honest, and have someone acknowledge you and validate you. Which is why, when you mention Marigold being self-absorbed below (and I agree, it's one of her faults), I think she'd benefit from seeing a therapist who can validate her feelings and talk to her about her behaviour from a neutral point of view.

(Honestly, I think everybody would benefit from seeing a therapist once in a while. We go to our doctors for physical checkups but we don't check up on our mental health?)
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