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Poll

So, who will make the next move?

Dale will go to apologise to Marigold
- 21 (46.7%)
Marigold will go to apologise to Dale
- 0 (0%)
Both will be paralysed with indecision, so Momo and May will meet to discuss strategy
- 3 (6.7%)
Spookybot will make an intervention for reasons of their own
- 0 (0%)
Emily comes to visit Marigold just as Dale arrives; complications ensue
- 6 (13.3%)
We join Marten, Dora and Faye reading Hannelore's first letter home
- 1 (2.2%)
Faye starts weirding Bubbles out with her studied nonchallance and hands-off behaviour
- 2 (4.4%)
Clinton and Claire meet and Clinton's current romantic travails come up
- 3 (6.7%)
Mrs Augustus auditions for a spot in Deathmole
- 6 (13.3%)
Other (please specify in a comment)
- 3 (6.7%)

Total Members Voted: 44


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Author Topic: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)  (Read 7942 times)

Storel

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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #150 on: 03 Mar 2018, 17:05 »

Never thought I would come across a Pumpernickel joke in QC.

I didn't even know Pumpernickel jokes were a thing. Where do you usually come across them?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #151 on: 03 Mar 2018, 18:53 »

I've always been more partial to rye humor, myself.
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Geographus

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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #152 on: 03 Mar 2018, 23:06 »

Never thought I would come across a Pumpernickel joke in QC.

I didn't even know Pumpernickel jokes were a thing. Where do you usually come across them?
It's more due  to the fact that I come from Westphalia, the area in Germany where Pumpernickel
origninally comes from. I was not aware that it is relatively well known in the US/Canada until now.
« Last Edit: 03 Mar 2018, 23:17 by Geographus »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #153 on: 04 Mar 2018, 03:58 »

Both the US and Canada have a huge population of German ancestry. In more than one US state German-Americans are the majority. So yeah, pumpernickel is well-known here.
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Case

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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #154 on: 04 Mar 2018, 08:51 »

Never thought I would come across a Pumpernickel joke in QC.

I didn't even know Pumpernickel jokes were a thing. Where do you usually come across them?
It's more due  to the fact that I come from Westphalia, the area in Germany where Pumpernickel
origninally comes from. I was not aware that it is relatively well known in the US/Canada until now.

Hello, fellow Rhinelander!
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #155 on: 04 Mar 2018, 09:13 »

Both the US and Canada have a huge population of German ancestry. In more than one US state German-Americans are the majority. So yeah, pumpernickel is well-known here.




Vee are ze Germanz! You vil pee assimilated. Resis-tense iz few tile ...

« Last Edit: 04 Mar 2018, 09:26 by Case »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #156 on: 04 Mar 2018, 09:37 »

I find it interesting whenever I see that map that the South seems to have decided that 'American' ancestry means 'White.'
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #157 on: 04 Mar 2018, 12:40 »

Resis-tense iz few tile ...

Is it mostly the shouting you like?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #158 on: 04 Mar 2018, 13:32 »


Vee are ze Germanz! You vil pee assimilated. Resis-tense iz few tile ...

Sure we're coming up fast behind ya, boy.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #159 on: 04 Mar 2018, 15:13 »

Resis-tense iz few tile ...

Is it mostly the shouting you like?

Well that, and also the hours are pretty good.

Though, come to think of it, most of the actual minutes are pretty lousy ... :psyduck:
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #160 on: 04 Mar 2018, 17:48 »

But the minutes are approved in every meeting.  :claireface:
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #161 on: 04 Mar 2018, 21:18 »

I second that comment.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #162 on: 05 Mar 2018, 21:22 »

I find it interesting whenever I see that map that the South seems to have decided that 'American' ancestry means 'White.'
If I recall correctly, most of those regions are of largely English descent.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #163 on: 05 Mar 2018, 21:36 »

I find it interesting whenever I see that map that the South seems to have decided that 'American' ancestry means 'White.'
If I recall correctly, most of those regions are of largely English descent.
If so, why aren't they marked with the colour that's listed for English ancestry (light purple)?

I am also very puzzled by what "American" ancestry is meant to mean...?? (Since it apparently doesn't mean American Indian or English or any of the other ancestries that have a distinct colour). Although I note the image does say US Census bureau so (if that's anything like our census) it's possible that all it means is that the majority people in those areas report that their ancestry is American. But that still leaves some hanging questions like why?
« Last Edit: 05 Mar 2018, 21:45 by jesslc »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #164 on: 05 Mar 2018, 21:45 »

I find it interesting whenever I see that map that the South seems to have decided that 'American' ancestry means 'White.'
If I recall correctly, most of those regions are of largely English descent.
If so, why aren't they marked with the colour that's listed for English ancestry (light purple)? I am also very puzzled by what "American" ancestry is meant to mean...?? (Since it apparently doesn't mean American Indian or English or any of the other ancestries that have a distinct colour).
Probably what the respondents stated verbatim.  I suspect these are the same folks who will say their native language is American (or "Muricun").
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #165 on: 05 Mar 2018, 21:50 »

I find it interesting whenever I see that map that the South seems to have decided that 'American' ancestry means 'White.'
If I recall correctly, most of those regions are of largely English descent.
If so, why aren't they marked with the colour that's listed for English ancestry (light purple)?

I am also very puzzled by what "American" ancestry is meant to mean...?? (Since it apparently doesn't mean American Indian or English or any of the other ancestries that have a distinct colour). Although I note the image does say US Census bureau so if that's anything like our census, all it means is that the majority people in those areas report that their ancestry is American.

It means they identify as American rather than another country. It could be people not having a national identity or not knowing their family's national origin or they could be people who simply identify with American and American alone. It's not had to grasp, if you are having an issue with it maybe you have a bit too rigid of an idea of national origins.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #166 on: 05 Mar 2018, 22:10 »

I find it interesting whenever I see that map that the South seems to have decided that 'American' ancestry means 'White.'
If I recall correctly, most of those regions are of largely English descent.
If so, why aren't they marked with the colour that's listed for English ancestry (light purple)?

I am also very puzzled by what "American" ancestry is meant to mean...?? (Since it apparently doesn't mean American Indian or English or any of the other ancestries that have a distinct colour). Although I note the image does say US Census bureau so if that's anything like our census, all it means is that the majority people in those areas report that their ancestry is American.

It means they identify as American rather than another country. It could be people not having a national identity or not knowing their family's national origin or they could be people who simply identify with American and American alone. It's not had to grasp, if you are having an issue with it maybe you have a bit too rigid of an idea of national origins.
Well I don't know how the census worded the question but the graph does say it's about ancestry, not identity. I identify as Australian (and Australian alone) but if you ask me about my ancestry, that's different question with a different answer. Most of the Australians I know would make a similar distinction between their identity/nationality and their ancestry.

I am puzzled by it (which is not the same as having an issue with it). I guess not knowing their family origins could explain it. Or maybe their understanding of what ancestory means is different to what the rest of the country understands by it (where the majority in each county has listed German or English or African American or American Indian, or...)
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WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #167 on: 06 Mar 2018, 03:08 »

It’s self-reported, so it means whatever the respondents believed it to mean.

It’s a known quirk of lower-class white Southerners to respond “Murrican!” when asked what their ancestry is. It’s not that they don’t know where their ancestors came from - it’s that they don’t think it’s relevant.

I speak as someone who grew up as one of them.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #168 on: 06 Mar 2018, 06:57 »

If your family has been here more than three generations, you are likely to be something like German/Irish/Italian/Black/Mexican/Sami, and to have no idea what to say your ethnic heritage is.

A lot of the the original settlers of  Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Kentucky, and Tennessee were Scots-Irish, that is, Scottish Presbyterians who went to Ireland to farm land taken from Irish Catholics, and who then, finding that the English treated them no better than they did the Irish, emigrated to North America. They had a confused ethnic background to start out with.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #169 on: 06 Mar 2018, 07:07 »

I know mine primarily because one half has been here for thousands of years and the other has only been here since the 1940s.

Historically, a big part of the US cultural narrative is that once you become a citizen you cease to be what you were and just become "American". Even if it doesn't actually play out that way, there was a strong push to promote that narrative.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #170 on: 06 Mar 2018, 07:30 »

Something to that, too. I used to say I was Irish, meaning Irish-American, because the Irish parts of my family talked family history more than any of the other parts, by dint of talking more than any of the other parts. Then I wound up working with recent Irish immigrants, and it came to me that, no, they are Irish, and I am American. It's not a big deal, but there is just no question about it.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #171 on: 06 Mar 2018, 14:56 »

I find it interesting whenever I see that map that the South seems to have decided that 'American' ancestry means 'White.'
If I recall correctly, most of those regions are of largely English descent.
If so, why aren't they marked with the colour that's listed for English ancestry (light purple)?

I am also very puzzled by what "American" ancestry is meant to mean...?? (Since it apparently doesn't mean American Indian or English or any of the other ancestries that have a distinct colour). Although I note the image does say US Census bureau so (if that's anything like our census) it's possible that all it means is that the majority people in those areas report that their ancestry is American. But that still leaves some hanging questions like why?

1. My most recent immigrant ancestors came to this country almost 150 years ago.  The oldest ones I know of came in the 1600s.

2. I know that most of them came from England, Ireland, and Germany, but I personally have no ties to those regions.  Why should I call myself Irish or English or German instead of American?

3. A lot of people, like me, have mixed ancestry.

4. I know my ancestry because I'm interested in genealogy.  A lot of people don't actually know where their great-great-great-grandparents lived.  What are they supposed to put, if not "American"?
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Morituri

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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #172 on: 06 Mar 2018, 18:05 »

I was thinking yesterday that "race" doesn't mean what most people think it means, anyway. 

Because even the "Isolated" populations weren't totally isolated.  Australia got Polynesians in off the pacific in dugout canoes, as did South America, and vice versa, so genetic isolation was never quite total.  And in a thousand years?  In fifty generations a lot happens.

And if you go back four thousand years - pyramids are being built along the Nile, and I'd bet that most of the people alive then who have ANY descendants alive today, are the direct ancestors of EVERYBODY alive today.  Everybody is everybody's cousin.

If  we really, really had the knowledge to know which branch to look in at every generation, and you were living in America, you could sit down with your neighbor from across the street who immigrated from Tibet last year, and your neighbor from the house next to yours who immigrated from Kenya the year before that, and your friend from church whose grandparents were australian aborigines, and your fishing buddy who's allowed to fish on federal land because he's got a Choctaw tribe member ID, and the five of you could write down names, linking each generation to the last, until you could all come to at least one of the same names.  You wouldn't have to fill more than one sheet of notebook paper with names  to go back four thousand years.  And you could do it again and again, coming down to the name of virtually anyone who was alive four thousand years ago, providing they left any progeny behind at all.  Just two hundred generations.

And this is what "race" is.  Everybody is connected.  Some of the connections are stronger, through more lines of ancestry, and some of them more tenuous, through only a few threads.  But everybody is everybody's cousin.  There is no such thing as a "pure race" and never has been.
« Last Edit: 06 Mar 2018, 20:35 by Morituri »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #173 on: 06 Mar 2018, 19:49 »

American mongrel here.

My mother's family goes back to the founding of Rhode Island (and Providence Plantations). I have ancestors who were in the Revolution (on both sides). I know this because my mother's mother was a genealogy enthusiast.

My father's parents were from Lithuania. I am entirely ignorant of that background. Possibly because one of my father's brothers made it his mission to make the family as 'American' as possible. So I'd never think of identifying as 'Lithuanian-American'.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #174 on: 07 Mar 2018, 04:24 »

Well, there's the concepts of Y-chromosomal Adam and mitochondiral Eve.

I've got my genealogy documented back to the late 1500s, and a good guess - but not documented - where we came from before that. Seems that we've like our place for the last 4 centuries, really.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #175 on: 07 Mar 2018, 05:12 »

I've got my genealogy documented back to the late 1500s,

Both lines of every generation?  Without that, any conclusion about belonging to a particular place is likely to be hard to justify.  When the genealogy in incomplete, the places where most records can be found are obviously going to come up top!
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #176 on: 07 Mar 2018, 06:12 »

In one of my old jobs, we used to deal with a lot of people looking into their family histories. In doing so, I learned some tips for people who have gotten stuck.

- Depending on the nation, check local census. Depending on how far you go back, these might be somewhat difficult to come back. Usually the ones dating back to the early 20th/late 19th centuries serve as a stepping stone.
- If you know the area where your ancestors came from, check out local churches. The Church (depending on which side of the Reformation you're stuck on) kept extensive records on people in the local parish. (Before anyone asks, a lot of this was to prevent bigamy and consanguineous marriage, but also to act as a record of marriages, births, deaths and people moving from one area to another). In some instances, the Church records will often be better than government and can reach as far back as the 16th Century.
- Check local graveyards. The stones might be worn but sometimes you might be able to gleam some names, especially if you do the paper and chalk rubbing trick.

There is a point where you can't really go back any further through historical records, usually conflict or even time will have destroyed them. When it gets to that, you can try a DNA marker test to try and trace paternal lineage. We did this last year, and I thought I'd just be Irish and Welsh. Turns out there's also Scottish, Greek, Finnish and Latvian markers there too. You'll never know what you'll find out.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #177 on: 07 Mar 2018, 07:21 »

I've got my genealogy documented back to the late 1500s,

Both lines of every generation?  Without that, any conclusion about belonging to a particular place is likely to be hard to justify.  When the genealogy in incomplete, the places where most records can be found are obviously going to come up top!

The question is, what do you need to justify that, then? Can we quantify it?

The point is, despite that genealogy, that indicates we have been around here - in an area of 20km≤ tops - in a small village like this, my father, having had the misfortune of being born 2km out, is still regarded an outsider. As was my grandfather, when he died at 86, having been born a similar distance to the other side, but having lived here for over 60 years. It's not a question of not accepting them, but they've not been raised here, as some people will still remark. With the influx of newcomers of the last few years, it's a bit less, but still around.

And yes, we might not have both lines for every generation complete, but down to the beginning of the 19th, we're all in the same region.

In one of my old jobs, we used to deal with a lot of people looking into their family histories. In doing so, I learned some tips for people who have gotten stuck.

- Depending on the nation, check local census. Depending on how far you go back, these might be somewhat difficult to come back. Usually the ones dating back to the early 20th/late 19th centuries serve as a stepping stone.
- If you know the area where your ancestors came from, check out local churches. The Church (depending on which side of the Reformation you're stuck on) kept extensive records on people in the local parish. (Before anyone asks, a lot of this was to prevent bigamy and consanguineous marriage, but also to act as a record of marriages, births, deaths and people moving from one area to another). In some instances, the Church records will often be better than government and can reach as far back as the 16th Century.
- Check local graveyards. The stones might be worn but sometimes you might be able to gleam some names, especially if you do the paper and chalk rubbing trick.

There is a point where you can't really go back any further through historical records, usually conflict or even time will have destroyed them. When it gets to that, you can try a DNA marker test to try and trace paternal lineage. We did this last year, and I thought I'd just be Irish and Welsh. Turns out there's also Scottish, Greek, Finnish and Latvian markers there too. You'll never know what you'll find out.

Those are helpful tips. Even if the church does not have its records anymore, someone is bound to be able to tell you where they have gone to, if they still exist. And when in a graveyard, people willoften be able to point you to someone who has taken an interest, and might help you along. It's worth it to look through whatever records they have, even if they are incomplete; often, but not always, the priest will have crossreferenced them, even when people moved outside of the parish.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3686-3690 (26th February to 2nd March 2018)
« Reply #178 on: 07 Mar 2018, 07:34 »

This is a good fascinating discussion. I'm going to give it its own thread when the coffee and exercise are done. Offhand I can't decide between DISCUSS, the top candidate, and RELATE, because it's people talking about their own lives.
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