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Author Topic: Brun is not in the cast page  (Read 3304 times)

Litch

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Brun is not in the cast page
« on: 06 Apr 2018, 12:51 »

Nor Elliot or the police officers or punchbot or melon or I dunno, anyone after last summer.
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awgiedawgie

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #1 on: 06 Apr 2018, 13:05 »

Give it time. There are still people missing from the Wiki as well - or were, the last time I checked. Maybe it’s up to speed now. It’s certainly more comprehensive than the Cast Page.
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Zebediah

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #2 on: 06 Apr 2018, 13:36 »

The cast page is on a “whenever Jeph feels like it” update schedule. She’ll be there eventually.
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jwhouk

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #3 on: 06 Apr 2018, 19:24 »

Brun hasn't quite hit 100 appearances yet, either.
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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #4 on: 18 Apr 2018, 22:18 »

Speaking of the cast page, am I the only one a bit disturbed that Claire is described as Clinton's "sibling"?  Especially with Sven's description freely using the word "brother," it feels kind of transphobic.  (...I was tempted to comment on the ordering, but I'm guessing it's for the benefit of new readers.)
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awgiedawgie

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #5 on: 18 Apr 2018, 22:38 »

I'm not in Jeph's head (for which he'd be thankful, if he only knew what was in my head), but I suspect that Claire is described the way she is to avoid giving anything away to new readers, while at the same time trying to offend as few people as possible, since there are plenty of people who have not learned to be accepting of people just the way they are. Acceptance goes both ways, and it doesn't happen overnight.
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Penquin47

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #6 on: 18 Apr 2018, 22:57 »

I'm not in Jeph's head (for which he'd be thankful, if he only knew what was in my head), but I suspect that Claire is described the way she is to avoid giving anything away to new readers, while at the same time trying to offend as few people as possible, since there are plenty of people who have not learned to be accepting of people just the way they are. Acceptance goes both ways, and it doesn't happen overnight.

Why would it be a spoiler to describe Claire as Clinton's sister?  That's what she is, that's how that relationship was introduced, it spoils nothing about her being trans.  Not being trans, I won't comment about the offensiveness of it, but I do not see how it's a spoiler.

I will say if someone's going to be offended by reading a comic with a trans major character, QC is probably not the comic for them...
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Thrudd

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #7 on: 19 Apr 2018, 03:49 »

I am not exactly the most socially perceptive person but from a technical writing standpoint it is inconsistent.

It might be a point to decide on before the next update / revision to the wiki just for consistencies sake.
The only characters where there may be a bit more head-scratching on would be the non-gender specific characters but the majority of those do not have siblings so there is that.

I do recommend that any such decisions be documented somewhere to help standardize the documentation.
Either hidden in the wiki itself or buried in the forums here for those involved in the wiki.
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awgiedawgie

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #8 on: 19 Apr 2018, 06:31 »

I'm not in Jeph's head (for which he'd be thankful, if he only knew what was in my head), but I suspect that Claire is described the way she is to avoid giving anything away to new readers, while at the same time trying to offend as few people as possible, since there are plenty of people who have not learned to be accepting of people just the way they are. Acceptance goes both ways, and it doesn't happen overnight.

Why would it be a spoiler to describe Claire as Clinton's sister?  That's what she is, that's how that relationship was introduced, it spoils nothing about her being trans.  Not being trans, I won't comment about the offensiveness of it, but I do not see how it's a spoiler.

I will say if someone's going to be offended by reading a comic with a trans major character, QC is probably not the comic for them...
I really don’t know. I’m just spitballing here. Maybe he originally put her entry on the cast page before he had decided what her story was, and he just never got around to changing “sibling” to “sister” later on when she started “smooching Marten”.
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Netherdan

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #9 on: 19 Apr 2018, 07:00 »

Speaking of the cast page, am I the only one a bit disturbed that Claire is described as Clinton's "sibling"?  Especially with Sven's description freely using the word "brother," it feels kind of transphobic.  (...I was tempted to comment on the ordering, but I'm guessing it's for the benefit of new readers.)

As for Sven, I don't quite remember he refering to Claire like that but we know he's a jerk so it's still in character for him
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awgiedawgie

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #10 on: 19 Apr 2018, 07:06 »

Speaking of the cast page, am I the only one a bit disturbed that Claire is described as Clinton's "sibling"?  Especially with Sven's description freely using the word "brother," it feels kind of transphobic.  (...I was tempted to comment on the ordering, but I'm guessing it's for the benefit of new readers.)

As for Sven, I don't quite remember he refering to Claire like that but we know he's a jerk so it's still in character for him
No, no. The point there was that Sven’s description on the cast page calls him Dora’s brother, as opposed to her “sibling”.
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OldGoat

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #11 on: 19 Apr 2018, 08:28 »

"Sibling," like "spouse," is gender-neutral.   It may not conform to an agenda, but doesn't make it *-phobic.

Jeph may also have an arc up his sleeve with a character or characters who remember Claire as a boy.   He's as much as said he maps out stories that he may or may not ever use, and "Gus" Agustus (my own head-canon name for Claire's and Clinton's father) is a logical member of that sub-cast.
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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #12 on: 19 Apr 2018, 09:35 »

"Gus" Agustus (my own head-canon name for Claire's and Clinton's father)

My personal headcanon is that his name is Claudius Tiberius Augustus.  I'm probably wrong.  :-D
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Penquin47

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #13 on: 19 Apr 2018, 19:13 »

"Gus" Agustus (my own head-canon name for Claire's and Clinton's father)

My personal headcanon is that his name is Claudius Tiberius Augustus.  I'm probably wrong.  :-D

I take it his father was NOT a stick in the mud like Henry? :D
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awgiedawgie

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #14 on: 19 Apr 2018, 19:33 »

"Gus" Agustus (my own head-canon name for Claire's and Clinton's father)

My personal headcanon is that his name is Claudius Tiberius Augustus.  I'm probably wrong.  ;D

I take it his father was NOT a stick in the mud like Henry? :D
I don't know if his father was a stick in the mud, but Claire & Clinton's opinion of their father doesn't say much. It would be nice if their grandfather actually turned out to be cool, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm hoping that their father has a name like "Dipshit Knight" or something equally fitting.
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SmilingCat

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #15 on: 19 Apr 2018, 19:47 »

Speaking of the cast page, am I the only one a bit disturbed that Claire is described as Clinton's "sibling"?  Especially with Sven's description freely using the word "brother," it feels kind of transphobic.  (...I was tempted to comment on the ordering, but I'm guessing it's for the benefit of new readers.)

There are precisely two sets of siblings on the cast page, each of whom gets a single pronoun to describe their familial relationship. Statistically, all it establishes is that Jeph freely used both gendered and non-gendered pronouns.

And given the consistently positive portrayal of Claire throughout the comic's run any claim of transphobia seems baseless to the point of idiotic.

Sometimes a word is just a word.
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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #16 on: 19 Apr 2018, 21:13 »

...okay, this is really, really nitpicky and tangential, but I feel obligated to point out that "sibling" is not a pronoun.
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OldGoat

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #17 on: 19 Apr 2018, 22:18 »

...okay, this is really, really nitpicky and tangential, but I feel obligated to point out that "sibling" is not a pronoun.
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SmilingCat

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #18 on: 19 Apr 2018, 23:58 »

...okay, this is really, really nitpicky and tangential, but I feel obligated to point out that "sibling" is not a pronoun.

Sometime's a word is just a word, and sometimes the word is the wrong word.  :lol:
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #19 on: 24 May 2018, 17:13 »

I feel as though Claire’s struggles with being trans have sort of faded into the background. Is it transphobic to say that? I sort of wish there was another trans woman in the comic so they could bounce their thoughts off each other. Or a trans man. I’d like it explored more fully.
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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #20 on: 24 May 2018, 18:27 »

The wiki has it right on the Claire page as of today and if it does have something wrong, well, it's easy to fix.
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awgiedawgie

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #21 on: 24 May 2018, 18:42 »

I feel as though Claire’s struggles with being trans have sort of faded into the background. Is it transphobic to say that? I sort of wish there was another trans woman in the comic so they could bounce their thoughts off each other. Or a trans man. I’d like it explored more fully.
I got the impression that before she told Marten, the only people who knew were her immediate family. It seemed to her at that time that her struggle was insurmountable. What will people think? What will they say? What will they do? I have no doubt she was absolutely terrified when she told Marten. It was a leap of faith. But he was also the one person she knew she could trust more than anyone else outside her family (plus, I think she already had a bit of a crush on him at that point). Once she told Marten, and later Emily, and they were both completely OK with it, her struggle - while no doubt still great - was a little easier. Now that she is in a relationship with Marten, he has gone beyond simply saying that he's cool with her being trans, to demonstrating that he loves her just for her. Her struggle is not over, by any means. There will always be people who will think poorly of her. She's not broadcasting it to the world, but she doesn't need to, either. It's no one's business anyway, unless she chooses to tell them. She has found that her friends - and especially the man who is most important in her life - really don't care.

To them, she's not really a man in denial of his true sex (heard that one a lot about Caitlyn Jenner). She's not a statistic on some form. She's not some freak to be whispered about as she walks by. For all we know, Marten may rarely think about the fact that she's trans at all any more. To her friends, she's just Claire. Full stop. I think her struggle has faded into the background because for the most part, her friends have helped her make a molehill out of a mountain.
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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #22 on: 24 May 2018, 20:38 »

>I got the impression that before she told Marten, the only people who knew were her immediate family.

I have one of those vague uncertain things that's not really a memory that she said as much. Did that happen?
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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #23 on: 24 May 2018, 21:21 »

Other than Clinton being hyper-protective I don't think it came up definitely not during the initial conversation about it.
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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #24 on: 25 May 2018, 05:08 »

RE: Claire being called sibling and Sven brother:

I think it was probably due to when they got added to the page. Jeph may now prefer using gender neutral identifiers for things like sibling or spouse. But when Sven was added he used to use more gender specific ones. Based on the development of art style, subject matter, humor, etc. I think it's reasonable to say that Jeph's way of speaking has also changed.

But since Sven is an old character, he had no reason to update his blurb or didn't think to.

As others have said, I think Claire has had a very positive representation and I don't think the use of sibling over sister was a dig of any sorts. I like that Claire is largely well accepted and lives a normal life. Yes, many trans* folks are denied  that but not all are and it's great to see how when people are decent that everyone can get along and thrive even if it's a fictional example.
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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #25 on: 25 May 2018, 07:53 »

Mistakes can hurt too. An act of a trans-supportive person can be transphobic.

Jeph has earned the trust of the trans*community based on what I've heard from them. "Sibling" is the wrong word. Both are true.
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awgiedawgie

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #26 on: 25 May 2018, 10:52 »

>I got the impression that before she told Marten, the only people who knew were her immediate family.

I have one of those vague uncertain things that's not really a memory that she said as much. Did that happen?
Pretty much. It's not like she came right out and said "Only my family knows", but when she told Emily, she implied that Marten was the only person who knew, and then later when talking with Marten, she implied that Emily was the only other person who knew.
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snufflebottoms

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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #27 on: 26 May 2018, 20:44 »

Mistakes can hurt too. An act of a trans-supportive person can be transphobic.

Jeph has earned the trust of the trans*community based on what I've heard from them. "Sibling" is the wrong word. Both are true.

I guess I was thinking that Jeph would be more inclined to correct this over-site by updating Sven to sibling rather that Claire to sister. This is pure speculation but I got the impression he has moved to more gender neutral language.

I can still see why it might be hurtful to some people and that's still valid.
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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #28 on: 11 Jul 2018, 02:33 »

Seems like with recent developments we are finding out more about Clinton & Claire's family situation and the fact that dad isn't in the picture.   That would be a weird development if he shows up, oh, say if someone in that family like an offspring were to get married.   Just to make an appearance.  And Brun might end up getting invited and can put a white ribbon on the harpoon.
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Re: Brun is not in the cast page
« Reply #29 on: 11 Jul 2018, 10:56 »

.... And Brun might end up getting invited and can put a white ribbon on the harpoon.
A nice new Blue ribbon and the harpoon would have to be a borrowed antique.
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