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[SpanielBear]

Going off topic here, but the idea of hard-wired loyalty creeps me out. Feels both prescriptive and enforced. Assuming that AI's are able to make free choices, their personality must necessarily be emergent, not pre-programmed.

Which means they get to own any qualities or vices they possess. At least to the same extent as humans do. Which seems fair enough.

[fayelovesbubbles]

Creeps me out too.

Bubbles is a person. She can do what she wants. She is choosing to be with Faye.

I am not going to worry about cheating. I want to enjoy their budding relationship.

[OldGoat]

Going off topic here, but the idea of hard-wired loyalty creeps me out. Feels both prescriptive and enforced. Assuming that AI's are able to make free choices, their personality must necessarily be emergent, not pre-programmed.

Which means they get to own any qualities or vices they possess. At least to the same extent as humans do. Which seems fair enough.

That's what I'm wondering.  Does Bubbs' intrinsic loyalty originate with her base programming, something that happened as her personality was complied in the creche that had little or nothing to do with her base code, or did it develop of its own accord?  Was she programmed that way because she was created to be a soldier, or was she drawn toward the military because of that personality trait?

Jeph may or may not choose to drill down that far into this world he's created.

[SpanielBear]

Going off topic here, but the idea of hard-wired loyalty creeps me out. Feels both prescriptive and enforced. Assuming that AI's are able to make free choices, their personality must necessarily be emergent, not pre-programmed.

Which means they get to own any qualities or vices they possess. At least to the same extent as humans do. Which seems fair enough.

That's what I'm wondering.  Does Bubbs' intrinsic loyalty originate with her base programming, something that happened as her personality was complied in the creche that had little or nothing to do with her base code, or did it develop of its own accord?  Was she programmed that way because she was created to be a soldier, or was she drawn toward the military because of that personality trait?

Jeph may or may not choose to drill down that far into this world he's created.

Well, two things off the bat- a) she wasn't programmed for the military, she chose it. Her psychological profile certainly played a part in that choice, but it doesn't offer any clues as to how it came about. That leads to b), her choice met with concern and disapproval from the AI community. Assuming they play the role of parent, that implies her choices are emergent and developmental rather than imposed by her creators- why create an AI to make choices you disapprove of?

We know the process of AI creation is barely understood, so manipulating it to create specific traits  seems like it would require insight that just isn't available, even to the God AI's. Spookybot also confirmed that they view messing with personality, memory and minds in general as a massive taboo, so again they are unlikely to inflict that on their children.

Finally, if her personality wasn't emergent, it couldn't change over time- the software wouldn't allow it. But she has changed her personality, opening up and becoming more emotionally vulnerable. If she has the ability to develop psychologically now, it seems odd that that wouldn't be a capacity she's always had.

TLDR- Bubbles is loyal, but she wasn't made that way.

[fayelovesbubbles]

Faye has been cheated on before. It will come up between them at some point, but dammit I just want to enjoy the newness of their relationship right now!

[OldGoat]

Going off topic here, but the idea of hard-wired loyalty creeps me out. Feels both prescriptive and enforced. Assuming that AI's are able to make free choices, their personality must necessarily be emergent, not pre-programmed.

Which means they get to own any qualities or vices they possess. At least to the same extent as humans do. Which seems fair enough.

That's what I'm wondering.  Does Bubbs' intrinsic loyalty originate with her base programming, something that happened as her personality was complied in the creche that had little or nothing to do with her base code, or did it develop of its own accord?  Was she programmed that way because she was created to be a soldier, or was she drawn toward the military because of that personality trait?

Jeph may or may not choose to drill down that far into this world he's created.

Well, two things off the bat- a) she wasn't programmed for the military, she chose it. Her psychological profile certainly played a part in that choice, but it doesn't offer any clues as to how it came about. That leads to b), her choice met with concern and disapproval from the AI community. Assuming they play the role of parent, that implies her choices are emergent and developmental rather than imposed by her creators- why create an AI to make choices you disapprove of?

We know the process of AI creation is barely understood, so manipulating it to create specific traits  seems like it would require insight that just isn't available, even to the God AI's. Spookybot also confirmed that they view messing with personality, memory and minds in general as a massive taboo, so again they are unlikely to inflict that on their children.

Finally, if her personality wasn't emergent, it couldn't change over time- the software wouldn't allow it. But she has changed her personality, opening up and becoming more emotionally vulnerable. If she has the ability to develop psychologically now, it seems odd that that wouldn't be a capacity she's always had.

TLDR- Bubbles is loyal, but she wasn't made that way.

While creating AIs for the military may be frowned upon, it's naive to think someone hasn't tried and won't try again.  (There's another story line for Jeph to pursue if he so chooses.)  As for Spookybot not letting it happen, they isn't a deity, they're just very good a faking it.  They're not omniscient and had to enlist Emily's aid, and they fake omnipresence with multiple linked selves physically present, presumably in the same metropolitan area. 

Remember, if there's a God in this QC universe, his name is Jeph.  He's revealing AI traits like talents and sexuality bit by bit as he goes along.

[SpanielBear]

While creating AIs for the military may be frowned upon, it's naive to think someone hasn't tried and won't try again.  (There's another story line for Jeph to pursue if he so chooses.)  As for Spookybot not letting it happen, they isn't a deity, they're just very good a faking it.  They're not omniscient and had to enlist Emily's aid, and they fake omnipresence with multiple linked selves physically present, presumably in the same metropolitan area. 

Remember, if there's a God in this QC universe, his name is Jeph.  He's revealing AI traits like talents and sexuality bit by bit as he goes along.

Okay... Well, taking all that as true (which I have to admit, I'm uncertain about (God AI in the QCverse just means "Capable of thinking on a level that is alien to humanity", at least that's how I meant to use the term)) that still doesn't mean it follows that Bubbles is programmed to "be" anything.

I totally agree that we haven't seen very much revealed about AI, but what we have seen mostly emphasises that those that desire a social life with humans share nearly all the traits that would make them both relatable and able to empathise with us. That includes being able to form relationships, and change in personality based on them, as well as other experiences.

As a final point (and again I think this is straying very far from the thread topic), think about May. Not only has she committed a crime, but she served a custodial sentence that (given she was released on parole) was at least intended to be remedial. Again, how does that make any sense if an AI's personality and actions are pre-programmed?

[Is it cold in here?]

We are discussing the sexuality of AIs in terms that precisely mirror those for humans.

My question is, has a form of sexuality similar to that of humans arisen as part of the emergence of the AI mind itself, or has it been (consciously or unconsciously) imposed on them, and if so, by whom - the society in which they have emerged, the author, or us, the readership?

Jeph said once that nobody in-universe knows where robot libidos come from.

[Is it cold in here?]

Faye has been cheated on before. It will come up between them at some point, but dammit I just want to enjoy the newness of their relationship right now!

You mean like Faye being afraid she's being cheated on? That would require massive insecurity even by Faye standards.

They don't need to have the health talk but they might talk about past relationships as a matter of establishing emotional background. Any lover of Faye needs to know her history. Bubbles would have to reciprocate. If we see that talk we'll find out whether Bubbles has shown any orientation toward women before.

I just started to wonder whether Jeph was forcing the relationship to happen so he could write about interspecies romance. Then it ht me. What does Faye need most? An emotional center to her life who will never move to New York or shoot himself in the head. I would have picked Marten as the one to provide what Bubbles needs but Faye seems to be taking care of that OK.

I like "Fayesexual" because it rhymes with "asexual" and therefore brings it to mind.

[SpanielBear]

What does Faye need most? An emotional center to her life who will never move to New York or shoot himself in the head.

The perils of modern dating...

[Hysteria]

I like "Fayesexual" because it rhymes with "asexual" and therefore brings it to mind.

I came here to say this. I incorrectly assumed that Bubbles was asexual when we first met her. So when I hear "Fayesexual" I think "asexual except for Faye" not necessarily simply "attracted to Faye". It's a subtle difference.

I'm very glad to find out that my initial assumption was wrong because I have been shipping this so hard for so long squeeeeee

Also I just want to mention that as someone on the LGB spectrum, I really appreciate how respectful this community is to these issues. I really wish I would have registered for forums when I first started reading QC.

[Morituri]

For what it's worth, when I called Bubbles "Fayesexual" I was simply pointing out that there's not enough data to generalize.  Faye is literally the *only* indication we've had of Bubbles' romantic attractions.  It's not denying her a label or an identity, it's just pointing out that whatever label you give her, other than acknowledging her relationship with Faye, is as likely as not to be wrong.

I wouldn't call Faye "Bubblesexual" in the same way; Faye has gone through feelings of attraction to several people, all male.  Based on the evidence right up until the current relationship she thought of herself as a straight girl; she still has no developed identity as bi or lesbian yet, and has not been subject to, or called on to deal with, any of those issues yet.  Based on what we've seen so far, I'd say she's mostly-straight, and Bubbles is an exception to the usual for her.  What she develops into the future?  I dunno.  Bisexual, possibly?  Straight with one confusing and wonderful exception?  possibly.  In a state of angst and confusion and perhaps cognitive dissonance over a shift in her own perceived or self-identified gender preference?  Also possibly.  I'm waiting for the author to tell that story.

I don't know if this is a real thing that's borne out by scientific evidence or not, but from personal experience, I've known several women whose gender preference in partners broadened as they got older.  Among people I know, there are more than a few formerly exclusive lesbians and formerly exclusively straight women who either discovered one or two very confusing exceptions, or outright became to some degree bisexual, as they matured.  But absolutely no exclusively-straight or exclusively-gay men of my acquaintance have gone through the same thing.  I wonder if this is just a small-sample coincidence or if there's a genuine skew there?

[Is it cold in here?]

Welcome, new person! Thank you for the compliment about everyone's efforts to be sure this is an inclusive community.

Also,

In a state of angst and confusion and perhaps cognitive dissonance over a shift in her own perceived or self-identified gender preference?

That would be a very QC-like outcome.

[NemesisDancer]

Among people I know, there are more than a few formerly exclusive lesbians and formerly exclusively straight women who either discovered one or two very confusing exceptions, or outright became to some degree bisexual, as they matured.  But absolutely no exclusively-straight or exclusively-gay men of my acquaintance have gone through the same thing.  I wonder if this is just a small-sample coincidence or if there's a genuine skew there?

This did happen to a male college friend of mine (he's primarily attracted to women, but his boyfriend is the one exception) so it can be true of both men and women

[fayelovesbubbles]

If Bubbles cheats on Faye, I will be devastated. I won't even think about it. Nope. If one of them breaks the other's heart, I will be so sad and mad. So I'm going to pretend it's not possible.

[Tova]

I can't think of anyone less likely to cheat than Bubbles, honestly.

[fayelovesbubbles]

I can't think of anyone less likely to cheat than Bubbles, honestly.

I also hope Faye does NOT cheat on Bubbles. That would suck immensely.

[Tova]

I'd be pretty surprised if that happened as well, to put it mildly.

Stop worrying!

[Morituri]

This did happen to a male college friend of mine (he's primarily attracted to women, but his boyfriend is the one exception) so it can be true of both men and women

Ah.  Okay, good.  Small-sample coincidence is a much better default hypothesis than yet another "all/only/most/no [insert label here] have/are/do [insert stereotype here]."  There are already a lot more of those latter going around than are actually true.

[fayelovesbubbles]

I'd be pretty surprised if that happened as well, to put it mildly.

Stop worrying!

Okay! I'll try. I'm so doom and gloom, it's hard, but yes, I'm just going to be happy and enjoy it. No more doom and gloom.

[jwhouk]

When I made the Fayesexual comment, I did so out of obviousness. I meant no ill will or perjorative by it.

Just sayin'.

[Dandi Andi]

For those now expressing concern over the label of "Fayesexual", I want to make it clear that I don't think there is anything wrong with calling Bubbles "Fayesexual". I don't presume to speak for Spider, but I don't think I read anything to that effect in her comment either. Only that we we have our own personal reasons why we would chose not to use it. So please don't feel like I was calling any of you out. I think you're all being quite wonderful.

[Spider]

Oh yeah it wasn't at all my intention for people to feel the need to explain themselves or apologize for their use of fayesexual or anything like that! I get it, I just had some personal feelings regarding it that I wanted to share. This has been a very civil discussion!

Sidenote when I said I see Bubbles as a lesbian earlier, I didn't mean that as any sort of speculation, more of just a headcanon really. Just that for now there's nothing in the comic that explicitly contradicts the idea that she is a lesbian and until a comic comes out that does, I will happy view her as such. Because, well, I'm a lesbian and I like to view other characters I like as lesbians as well. But if she's revealed to be bi or pan or has just a specific exception with Faye, I'll gladly accept what she is in canon and stop headcanoning her as such.

[Is it cold in here?]

Bubbles came into this with an orientation that made it possible to start a romantic relationship with Faye. This is something to celebrate.

[Dandi Andi]

Bubbles came into this with an orientation that made it possible to start a romantic relationship with Faye. This is something to celebrate.

Truly, I think you have cut right to the heart of it. Whatever her orientation or Faye's, they love each other and bring each other joy and that is always a thing to celebrate.

[Staff_Inflection]

Virtually all of the AI characters in the strip have demonstrated a desire for intimacy and companionship

I think Jeph having 2 of the younger characters in the strip discuss matters in teenage terms was a interesting perspective. Many AI (it seems) do find humans attractive/aesthetically pleasing but there is a obvious physical barrier to the more intimate aspects of the relations

[Morituri]

Hmmm.  someone Bubbles' size and strength has no idea what she's doing and may be processing, um, unfamiliar high-priority input. 

Oh Honey.  Been there.  You do what you need to do, that's how it is but....

Do you suppose they're making enough at Union Robotics now to cover replacements for broken furniture?   

[OldGoat]

Hmmm.  someone Bubbles' size and strength has no idea what she's doing and may be processing, um, unfamiliar high-priority input. 

Oh Honey.  Been there.  You do what you need to do, that's how it is but....

Do you suppose they're making enough at Union Robotics now to cover replacements for broken furniture?   

They might be, and may need to hire more help.  They have the wherewithal to solve their own physical intimacy problems, and there are certainly other A/O couples who need the same help.  "Love an android/organic?  We'll custom build compatible junk for you," may be a little too crass, but they'll come up with something.

Done right business could be quite good.

[snufflebottoms]

What if an AI whose software says they're male and who identifies as female is transferred into a toaster?

Getting to read this in a serious context has been very amusing

[Penquin47]

Hmmm.  someone Bubbles' size and strength has no idea what she's doing and may be processing, um, unfamiliar high-priority input. 

Oh Honey.  Been there.  You do what you need to do, that's how it is but....

Do you suppose they're making enough at Union Robotics now to cover replacements for broken furniture?   

They might be, and may need to hire more help.  They have the wherewithal to solve their own physical intimacy problems, and there are certainly other A/O couples who need the same help.  "Love an android/organic?  We'll custom build compatible junk for you," may be a little too crass, but they'll come up with something.

Done right business could be quite good.

Heck, they even have experience with buildingrobodongs, thanks to Pintsize!

[Is it cold in here?]

It's an interesting character development point if Bubbles was asexual before this and is having to work through her sexual awakening at the same time as she's dealing with a radical change in her relationship with her best friend and business partner and roommate.

It may be solid ground for speculation that every other character except Winslow was shown to have some kind of sexuality. That supports the asexuality hypothesis.

[A small perverse otter]

Speaking as someone on the LGB spectrum the topic doesn't bother me for that reason. But I don't see the point of it at all. We have exactly one point of reference when it comes to Bubble's sexuality. She's romantically attracted to Faye. There has been no indication to her romantic or sexual orientation beyond that, past or present. So the entire thread is strictly and literally baseless guesswork.

Interestingly, speaking as someone else on the LBG (but not TQ+) part of the world, I *do* find this discussion makes me a bit uncomfortable. If you ask me about my sexuality, I'll ask why you want to know, and, if you have a reasonable justification, I'll tell you. Asking a third party to speculate, though, strikes me as voyeuristic. Ask me, or don't ask at all.

I'm interested in where the relationship will go, but mostly because Jeph has never addressed the question of AI/human relationships. Are they transgressive? Are they common? And they somewhere in between: not common but not remarkable, either? How do the partners in those relationships deal with the inevitable fact that humans age and AIs don't?  Do AIs have stages of life in the same way humans do? Do Ai/human couples typically adopt children? Is there an equivalent behavior for adopting 'childlike' AIs?

How do AIs experience romance? Evidently, they date one another (poor Officer Basilisk!) but what does that mean to them?

I can go on and on -- the relationship is fascinating. As to sex, the only interesting question to me is whether human/AI relationships have sexual aspects. Beyond that, exactly which mucus membranes are involved seems unimportant.

[awgiedawgie]

Beyond that, exactly which mucus membranes are involved seems unimportant.

That just makes sex sound revolting.

[Is it cold in here?]

Also I just want to mention that as someone on the LGB spectrum, I really appreciate how respectful this community is to these issues.

Administrator Comment

That compliment means a lot to us.

[Dandi Andi]

That just makes sex sound revolting.

Sex, from a mechanical perspective, really is revolting.

[PhoneWytch]

A thought... Is Bubbles really female in the context of this relationship? Or generally really?

She seems to have been generally portrayed as rather masculine to me.

With this in mind, it is also as if Faye could be attracted to Bubbles as a masculine robotic force, rather than a female one?

I feel I am explaining my thoughts rather badly here and I hope that I do not come across as offensive.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Is it cold in here?]

Welcome, new person!

My first thought is she's a butch woman, but we really don't know what's inside her processor in the way of gender identity. She doesn't even have a hypothalamus.

Faye's confusion seems to be coming from her thinking of Bubbles as a woman, end of sentence, and herself as heterosexual. If she thought of Bubbles as masculine she might be more at ease.

[Russ, jsps]

Not sure how to put this across clearly .. I think the only entity who could accurately categorise the relationship and the elements that constitute it is Evie - 'Manda's girlfriend - or those who have also studied Post-Singularity Psychology.

Having said that, though, since it isn't a thing that exists in this 'brane yet, I guess the work being done here to better hone our language and understanding of the subject may one day be looked back at and highlighted as the groundwork for a new discipline.

Please keep at it. I am here to learn from you.

(Also: https://imageshack.com/a/img921/4694/8kWgS1.png - You don't need to click the link, it's just the Union Robotics sign with the slogan "Love an android/organic?  We'll custom build compatible junk for you!!" above it. It doesn't look good. I don't do artwork. Sorry)

[PhoneWytch]

Thanks! I suppose I took her discomfort as more a combination of "this is my best friend and I don't want to screw this up" and "oh crap what if I made her uncomfortable and upset her"

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[fayelovesbubbles]

The funny thing is everyone keeps saying Faye is butch. A tomboy? Def. Butch? Nah. Short hair alone does not make a woman butch.

Is Bubbles butch? When compared with, let’s say, Momo, May, Melon and Roko? I’d say so. I’d even venture to guess that the girly sounding nickname “Bubbles” was a joke among her squad, for the irony behind it.

[PhoneWytch]

What would you say the difference is between butch and tomboy?

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[Tova]

I'd thought that the term 'tomboy' applied to children, generally (e.g. Sam). Am I wrong?

[fayelovesbubbles]

You’re probably not wrong. Whatever the adult equivalent is, then...

[PhoneWytch]

I suppose against my theory is the fact the Bubbles "tea fantasy" sex pots have been decidedly Uber masculine haven't they?

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[SmilingCat]

I can go on and on -- the relationship is fascinating. As to sex, the only interesting question to me is whether human/AI relationships have sexual aspects. Beyond that, exactly which mucus membranes are involved seems unimportant.

It's been established that AI frequently have libidos, certain chassis can be equipped for sexual activity, and that AI are able to induce pleasure in themselves at will. Combine the mechanical equipment with a program to trigger the appropriate pleasure response under the proper stimuli, and there you go.

[Is it cold in here?]

Thanks! I suppose I took her discomfort as more a combination of "this is my best friend and I don't want to screw this up" and "oh crap what if I made her uncomfortable and upset her"

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Hey, you could be totally right.

[Spider]

I find the implication that just because Bubbles has masculine characteristics that that denies her of being a woman in this context to be rather upsetting. It feels like trying to deny the fact that they are a f/f couple. Conversations similar like this come up a lot with some people thinking that butch/femme couples are "bascially straight" and "heteronormative" which is a bunch of hooey.

Most woman who like woman have complicated relationships with gender and are more likely to have masculine traits or exhibit androgyny. This does not mean they should suddenly be viewed as men.

As for the subject of either of them being butch well that's a little hard to judge. The term is hard to describe and is often a subject of much discussion in wlw communities. I believe whether a woman is butch or femme or not has less to do with outward appearance or attitude, and more to do with the reasons why they choose to present themselves the way they do with regards to attracting women. For that reason I feel you can't really properly figure out if a fictional character is butch or not just by appearances.

But if you want my certified lesbian opinion I'd say neither of them are butch or femme. Which makes sense, that's more of a subculture that most f/f don't fall neatly into. If I had to say which one would be more likely to be butch, I'd honestly say Faye, but even then she's more like a soft butch.

IDK that stuff is kind of complicated and I feel like we'd need to see more of their interactions as a couple before we could truly tell.

[PhoneWytch]

I'm not denying that they are a f/f couple. I was presenting it more as food for thought. Perhaps Faye's angst stemming from a different place than just the girl/girl dynamic, that perhaps it isn't even a consideration if she sees Bubbles as more of a masculine than feminine force.

Simply a different viewpoint.

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[Staff_Inflection]

For the most part, I've gotten the idea that AI process (heh pun) emotions and feelings just like regular people. They have needs and desires. And as far as it's been stated, human/AI relationships are rare if I recall correctly. But not unheard of. But there are obvious mental hang-ups on the part of the AI. As well as physical differences.

Bubbles' pretty much acknowledged this to Tai.

At the root of this new relationship is a simple desire for intimacy. I don't believe Faye has ever truly allowed herself this and it strikes me as something Bubbles would have harbored a longing for. Something that goes beyond the physical connection or emotional connection

[fayelovesbubbles]

Would you take a pansexual woman’s opinion? I don’t claim to be an expert on butch/femme dynamics, but Faye has only ever vaguely struck me as butch, not overtly. Dora did comment about it and I started to wonder, but didn’t really entertain the idea.

Which makes me think—Dora has gotten noticeably more feminine as time has gone on, or am I crazy?