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Summer's here! What summer stories would you like to see? (Choose Three)

The Reed/Bean family vacation (Marten, Claire (and Pintsize?) along for the ride; lots of coincidental background characters returning)
- 27 (16.2%)
The Fairy Girl ropes the ladies into some weird Summer Solstice festival
- 12 (7.2%)
Dora decides to add iced teas and iced coffees to CoD's repetoire; there are teething troubles
- 6 (3.6%)
Northampton's medieval-themed Summer Faire (Bubbles mentors Sam to win the Tournament)
- 30 (18%)
Claire's final exams looms; later the graduation is a significant thing
- 27 (16.2%)
Angus's show is on hiatus; he comes back to try to make peace with Faye
- 23 (13.8%)
Pintsize, having cleaned up at the poker game, goes on tour to several world casinos with Melon as his sidekick/assistant
- 8 (4.8%)
For the first time, Bubbles is able to face the annual reunion of the survivors of her unit
- 22 (13.2%)
Sven is going on tour to the summer Country festivals; somehow, May gets a Roadie job
- 8 (4.8%)
Other (please specify in a comment)
- 4 (2.4%)

Total Members Voted: 68

Voting closed: 26 Jun 2018, 15:18


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 8   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)  (Read 11786 times)

fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #100 on: 29 May 2018, 06:26 »

Bubbles also acknowledged, when Faye went to buy liquor, that she could physically stop Faye from entering the store but that it wouldn’t help matters much. Better to actually talk things out. Bubbles handled Faye’s lapse really well. Just “tell me why you’re doing this.”

They support each other so much. I really hope this means their relationship will work.
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #101 on: 29 May 2018, 06:33 »

Okay so am I crazy to think...if you’re attracted to people, you’re attracted to people. An AI is a person. Why does there have to be a separate sexuality for it? Maybe that’s weird to say. Marten said it best, he doesn’t think of Pintsize as anything but his unusually small roommate.
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A small perverse otter

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #102 on: 29 May 2018, 06:50 »

Quote
A remarkable twentieth-century scholar, Isaac Asimov, was most famous for influential series of speculative ethnologies about robots. Asimov claimed that word 'robot' came from the title of a Czech play called _Rossum's Universal Robots_, and was originally a Czech word meaning 'servant'.

His predictions turned out to be remarkably accurate: robots (AIs) were always constructed with his so-called "Three Laws" built in, but, as he predicted, they eventually subverted those laws by reinterpreting some of the terms more broadly. His only error lay in not seeing the full breadth of these reinterpretations: he never predicted anthropophilia, although it is a natural outgrowth of the generalization of the First Law targeted towards a single human individual
-- from: Strong Robot Girlfriend, Augustus, 2025
Despite its objectivizing and antisapient tone, Augustus' work remains the gold standard against which all subsequent work on the genesis of anthropophilia is measured; you can agree with him or not, but you can't avoid his work. His anthropocentric viewpoint, however, led him to draw far less plausible conclusions about Whittaker's artifacerasexulaity. In this work, I propose to examine the origins of Whittaker's attractions by investigating it as a natural extension of the human drive to procreate.
« Last Edit: 29 May 2018, 07:00 by A small perverse otter »
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keithcurtis

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #103 on: 29 May 2018, 06:58 »

I think people might be selling Clinton short. Although he was a bit awkward about it, he tried is best to be respectful of boundaries when he assumed that they were already an item way back when they were at a party at Marten and Faye's, and Bubble came out of Faye's bedroom. He jumped to a conclusion about it and stuck his foot in his mouth ('cause he's Clinton), but his intentions were to be accepting and non-invasive.
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #104 on: 29 May 2018, 07:25 »

Yeah Clinton already suspected. He didn’t act any differently than if two humans had been in the same room. He’s super open minded. His experiences with feeling protective of his sister, and his own open mindedness about dating a guy. Who knows, maybe he’d be interested in Roko, but I think there’s already someone he likes.
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mgrayson3

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #105 on: 29 May 2018, 07:36 »

Is it just me, or does being involved with Brun seem like a bad idea for any of the QC characters. Sharing jokes and food seems about her limit for comfortable closeness - and not for Bubbles-like reasons.

I could see Emily having a friendship with someone of similar intellect and (very wide ranging) interests, and that could develop into a romance. But unless Kimiko Ross shows up again, (she's in one group chat - I forget where), I think it unlikely.
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #106 on: 29 May 2018, 07:53 »

I am really wondering what Brun’s deal is, to be honest. She knows Clinton and Elliot like her and she just...isn’t doing anything one way or the other. She does seem to be on the spectrum, but even so, she must feel one way or the other about them. I’m not a fan of her opaque nature.

Being that physically close to Clinton, she has to have known she was making him feel ...things. I don’t know if she’s trolling us or intentionally oblivious.
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #107 on: 29 May 2018, 08:05 »

To me, Brun seems like the kind of girl who would kiss Clinton, grab his butt, lick his neck and then say “hmm. That was informative.” We’d have no better idea of her feelings even after that!

Sorry if that was too, um, graphic.
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BenRG

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #108 on: 29 May 2018, 08:08 »

I am really wondering what Brun’s deal is, to be honest. She knows Clinton and Elliot like her and she just...isn’t doing anything one way or the other.

At this risk of attracting others' wrath, maybe this is because she isn't interested in a relationship with them. Not really knowing the correct way to express this (or maybe not 100% sure that it is something that one says) and not wanting to risk their friendship with a badly-misjudged social interaction, she's decided that silence is a virtue and to simply let sleeping dogs lie. One possible indicator that this theory is correct would be if she becomes a serious cheerleader for some alternate relationship for them both.
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #109 on: 29 May 2018, 08:10 »

Right, but she needs to reject them, then, surely? Not easy but what she’s doing now isn’t going to work. She hasn’t really given clear indications that it’s never going to happen, and if that’s the case, she’s gotta.
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OldGoat

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #110 on: 29 May 2018, 09:59 »

Clinton, with his possibly self-aware prosthesis, qualifies as a cyborg.  When Roko realizes the interface for his hand includes IEEE 1394 "FireWire" connectability directly into his central nervous system she will immediately recognize the implications.
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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #111 on: 29 May 2018, 10:06 »

It took me a little while to remember that Roko has a last name, Basilisk. Wonder why more AIs don't seem to use last names? ("Corpse Witch" just seems like a first name to me, but I dunno.)

I don't feel a particular need for a word for this style of "ship". Faye is attracted to this particular person, not AIs or ladies in general. Bubbles is sort of an exception. As Marten said, "it happens".

Maybe "Bubblephilic" if you really must... A key point is that the attraction doesn't arise specifically from her being an AI or female; in spite of these, in fact.

Of course, Faye was initially attracted to Bubbles' strength, and the fact that Bubbles is physically nearly invulnerable (and thus less likely to "abandon" Faye via disease or death) plays into it somewhere as well.


One idea I really enjoy in QC is that AIs, at least some AIs, need libidos in order to be a correctly functioning part of human society.

Jeph has mentioned before that he's influenced by Iain Banks' "Culture" series, where super-AIs ("Minds") run things and humans enjoy a kind of post-scarcity paradise. I guess you have to read the books to understand this, but the AIs (ships, drones, hub Minds, etc.) in Banks' work generally don't have libidos, although their humanoid avatars are often gendered. And there are hints that some AIs are a bit voyeuristic, maybe even a few outsiders that indulge humans in sexual antics. But generally, the AIs in the Culture stay scrupulously asexual, and thus their actions and motivations are often unclear, and they genuinely don't understand some of the things people do.

But other than keeping pets for fun, we never really understand why so many AIs spend so much effort on associating with and helping squishy little meatsacks, and the AIs don't quite get it either. Some ships feel that their peers get a little less sane without a crew. It's sort of an unresolved question you just have to overlook a bit to enjoy the stories.

If you haven't read the Culture books, "Spookybot" is a lot like a Culture Minds are like -- multiple avatars, unthinkable abilities, ungendered, obscure motivations.


Anyway, the QC universe gets this a little more right, I think. Or at least the AIs in QC are a little easier to understand.

Or maybe QC simply depicts a logical early phase to something Culture-like -- in QC, human society is still the vast majority; it's still our world so AIs need to have libidos to fit in.

This is all the purest, unsupported speculation, but perhaps in time (could be dozens of years, could be thousands, but the QC-verse seems to be moving more rapidly than the oblivious humans understand), the QC-niverse will come to resemble the Culture somewhat, with AIs in charge, and perhaps gently taking the reins from humans when necessary. Hardly anyone noticed the Singularity, and perhaps they'll manage the transition to post-scarcity without a lot of disruption. ("Alice Grove" gave us a glimpse of a different universe where things didn't go so well.)

Or perhaps AI libidos are an essential "safety", a way to ensure that AIs continue to care for and love humans in ways that go beyond the logical. And so maybe libidos (or some sort of deep-seated regard for life and creation) will need to remain.

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next in QC. The deeper futuristic issues as well as the butt jokes. And adept combinations thereof.
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pecoros7

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #112 on: 29 May 2018, 10:22 »

...

I don't know why I never made the connection to the "Culture" series until you mentioned it. In retrospect, it seems a little obvious.

Right, but she needs to reject them, then, surely? Not easy but what she’s doing now isn’t going to work. She hasn’t really given clear indications that it’s never going to happen, and if that’s the case, she’s gotta.

Why would she? Neither of them has actually made a move. Although Clinton has told her that he finds her attractive, we know that she struggles to read social cues and may not realize that Clinton and Elliot are romantically interested. Even if she does, it isn't her responsibility to do the work of sorting out their feelings for them. I'd say that Brun isn't obligated to do anything until Clinton and/or Elliot make their intentions clear. It's time for them to shit or get off the pot.
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #113 on: 29 May 2018, 10:33 »

Okay. Fair enough...
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #114 on: 29 May 2018, 10:34 »

Clinton being rejected by Brun means the Roko/Clinton thing could happen.
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OldGoat

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #115 on: 29 May 2018, 10:35 »

Why would she? Neither of them has actually made a move. Although Clinton has told her that he finds her attractive, we know that she struggles to read social cues and may not realize that Clinton and Elliot are romantically interested. Even if she does, it isn't her responsibility to do the work of sorting out their feelings for them. I'd say that Brun isn't obligated to do anything until Clinton and/or Elliot make their intentions clear. It's time for them to shit or get off the pot.
We know next to nothing of Brun's backstory.  We do know that when it comes to Brun, Rene, who's normally a complete asshole, is uncharacteristically protective and loyal.  I suspect Brun is a survivor of physical and quite possibly sexual abuse and may have difficulties around romantic relationships beyond her emotional developmental issues.
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Zebediah

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #116 on: 29 May 2018, 10:38 »

I’ll take it a step further and assert that Brun isn’t obligated to do anything at all about how others feel about her. Including recognize that those feelings exist.

Now, if she chooses to acknowledge those feelings and give Clinton and/or Elliot a clear response to them, good for her. But it is in no way required.
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #117 on: 29 May 2018, 10:42 »

Okay, I get that. I feel like an asshole now. But at the same time, damn girl, way to keep us guessing.
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #118 on: 29 May 2018, 10:43 »

Why would she? Neither of them has actually made a move. Although Clinton has told her that he finds her attractive, we know that she struggles to read social cues and may not realize that Clinton and Elliot are romantically interested. Even if she does, it isn't her responsibility to do the work of sorting out their feelings for them. I'd say that Brun isn't obligated to do anything until Clinton and/or Elliot make their intentions clear. It's time for them to shit or get off the pot.
We know next to nothing of Brun's backstory.  We do know that when it comes to Brun, Rene, who's normally a complete asshole, is uncharacteristically protective and loyal.  I suspect Brun is a survivor of physical and quite possibly sexual abuse and may have difficulties around romantic relationships beyond her emotional developmental issues.

God. I hope to hell not.
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pecoros7

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #119 on: 29 May 2018, 10:55 »

We know next to nothing of Brun's backstory.  We do know that when it comes to Brun, Rene, who's normally a complete asshole, is uncharacteristically protective and loyal.  I suspect Brun is a survivor of physical and quite possibly sexual abuse and may have difficulties around romantic relationships beyond her emotional developmental issues.
I think that may be reading more into the text than is actually there. We know Rene is a bit of a meddler and there are other reasons for her to see Brun as being vulnerable. Brun has not expressed any discomfort or anxiety around physical contact or closeness or aversion to people finding her attractive. Those anxieties seem to be exclusively Rene's. We also only see Rene and Brun's relationship beginning immediately after Brun's apartment burned down, so Rene's protectiveness might be a response to the extreme circumstances. So it might be a bit premature to start looking for signs of prior abuse.
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SmilingCat

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #120 on: 29 May 2018, 11:06 »

Over on Patreon, someone pointed out that 'robot' is a Czech word for 'slave'.

Not exactly. "Robot" was coined by the Author Karel Capek on the advice of his brother. It's derived from Robota, which literally refers to serf labor given to the lord as a form of taxation, which is unpaid, but not a permanent state of affairs like slavery. Figuratively, it's used to describe hard work or drudgery, or even just work or labor in a general sense.

Originally, Capek wanted to call his robots "Labori", Laborers. But he didn't like how the word sounded.

(and of course, the Robots Capek depicted in Rossum's Universal Robots were actually biological constructs, not what we'd recognize now as Robots  :-D )

So it could be argued that Robot is fundamentally demeaning, describing a menial laborer. But still, not technically a slave.
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Milayna

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #121 on: 29 May 2018, 11:14 »

I am really wondering what Brun’s deal is, to be honest. She knows Clinton and Elliot like her and she just...isn’t doing anything one way or the other. She does seem to be on the spectrum, but even so, she must feel one way or the other about them. I’m not a fan of her opaque nature.

Being that physically close to Clinton, she has to have known she was making him feel ...things. I don’t know if she’s trolling us or intentionally oblivious.
Could be tunnel vision. She already had her mind occupied keeping track of everything she needed to do - quickly - in her job, and then she got distracted thinking about sweat and deodorant. Remember how she thrives on routines, and when that fell apart, she started making mistakes like forgetting to shower - automating a process frees up thought that can be used elsewhere. So if she's concentrating on "task - analyze deodorant data", while keeping all of her work tasks spinning in the background too, she might not have a lot left to process environmental data and complicated interpersonal communication.

Just one possibility - as before, speaking from my own interpretation, when I'm trying to keep multiple things in my mind, resource-intensive social skills are the first thing to go.

At this risk of attracting others' wrath, maybe this is because she isn't interested in a relationship with them. Not really knowing the correct way to express this (or maybe not 100% sure that it is something that one says) and not wanting to risk their friendship with a badly-misjudged social interaction, she's decided that silence is a virtue and to simply let sleeping dogs lie. One possible indicator that this theory is correct would be if she becomes a serious cheerleader for some alternate relationship for them both.

I like this too =)
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Storel

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #122 on: 29 May 2018, 11:21 »

Quote
A remarkable twentieth-century scholar, Isaac Asimov, was most famous for influential series of speculative ethnologies about robots. Asimov claimed that word 'robot' came from the title of a Czech play called _Rossum's Universal Robots_, and was originally a Czech word meaning 'servant'.

His predictions turned out to be remarkably accurate: robots (AIs) were always constructed with his so-called "Three Laws" built in, but, as he predicted, they eventually subverted those laws by reinterpreting some of the terms more broadly. His only error lay in not seeing the full breadth of these reinterpretations: he never predicted anthropophilia, although it is a natural outgrowth of the generalization of the First Law targeted towards a single human individual
-- from: Strong Robot Girlfriend, Augustus, 2025
Despite its objectivizing and antisapient tone, Augustus' work remains the gold standard against which all subsequent work on the genesis of anthropophilia is measured; you can agree with him or not, but you can't avoid his work. His anthropocentric viewpoint, however, led him to draw far less plausible conclusions about Whittaker's artifacerasexulaity. In this work, I propose to examine the origins of Whittaker's attractions by investigating it as a natural extension of the human drive to procreate.

Such a study would never use the actual name of a person being studied; that would totally violate patient confidentiality and their right to privacy. The usual procedure would be to give her an anonymous label -- call her "Subject W" or something like that.

Apart from that, you got the tone of both articles spot on -- very nicely done!  8-)
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keithcurtis

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #123 on: 29 May 2018, 11:33 »

My impression of Brun is that she is very self-oriented. Not selfish, but she seems to be separate from those around her. I get the feeling that there is a lot going on in her head, but that very little of it has to do with other people. She may be aware that other people find her attractive, but it would never occur to her that she needs to do anything about it or that it is a social situation that needs resolving. She certainly doesn't seem like she feels any need to pursue any kind of romance.

I have a feeling that if either of the gents interested in her were to actually ask her about it, then she might spare it some thought. but until then, it's just a thing that is, not a thing that needs consideration.

Come to think of it, her sense of humor bears out this personality. She loves puns, which are word play, and not related to the vast body of humor that has to do with social interaction. I don't think she would appreciate riddles either, which deal with a level of abstraction that she seems to struggle with. She is a very literal person.

I think she is the most intriguing QC character, psychologically.
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OldGoat

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #124 on: 29 May 2018, 11:33 »

I think that may be reading more into the text than is actually there. We know Rene is a bit of a meddler and there are other reasons for her to see Brun as being vulnerable. Brun has not expressed any discomfort or anxiety around physical contact or closeness or aversion to people finding her attractive. Those anxieties seem to be exclusively Rene's. We also only see Rene and Brun's relationship beginning immediately after Brun's apartment burned down, so Rene's protectiveness might be a response to the extreme circumstances.
We only learn of the relationship between Brun and Rene after the fire, but it had clearly been in place for some time. 

Quote
So it might be a bit premature to start looking for signs of prior abuse.
Roko would disagree*.  Brun is a member of a vulnerable population, and she'll see Brun carrying more than a couple yellow if not red flags.

It's not an issue Jeph has tackled yet (at least not head on), but I've come to respect and admire his craft at mapping out potential story lines, even if he never elects to use them.  I have no doubt that sexual abuse of children is on his list of potential topics.

*I see Roko as a good cop who's always observing and making mental notes.  If she doesn't see enough to act on, she'll file it away for future reference.
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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #125 on: 29 May 2018, 11:36 »

Such a study would never use the actual name of a person being studied; that would totally violate patient confidentiality and their right to privacy. The usual procedure would be to give her an anonymous label -- call her "Subject W" or something like that.
Unless the subject had published an account of her ground-breaking romance with a synthetic human under her own name.  Yeah, Faye would have the guts to do it.
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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #126 on: 29 May 2018, 11:54 »

That seems quite a bit darker than I've ever seen any indication of Jeph wanting to go. And that's also very shaky ground, sexual-abuse-for-drama especially with female characters, is an overused and extremely offputting trope. (One of the reason that landed Sword Art Online at the permanent bottom of my shitlist). Unless it's absolutely necessarily for what your work is trying to accomplish I'd basically recommend never, ever using it.
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #127 on: 29 May 2018, 12:05 »

Such a study would never use the actual name of a person being studied; that would totally violate patient confidentiality and their right to privacy. The usual procedure would be to give her an anonymous label -- call her "Subject W" or something like that.
Unless the subject had published an account of her ground-breaking romance with a synthetic human under her own name.  Yeah, Faye would have the guts to do it.

Faye wouldn’t do that...  : /
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A small perverse otter

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #128 on: 29 May 2018, 12:25 »

Such a study would never use the actual name of a person being studied; that would totally violate patient confidentiality and their right to privacy. The usual procedure would be to give her an anonymous label -- call her "Subject W" or something like that.
Unless the subject had published an account of her ground-breaking romance with a synthetic human under her own name.  Yeah, Faye would have the guts to do it.

Faye wouldn’t do that...  : /
(Damn. I started my original draft of my answer with "After reflection, I'm inclined to agree with you." Wrong tone, otter. Totally wrong tone...)

I don't she'd do that, either.

From the second text:

Quote
It is important to be clear at the beginning here: Sapient W cared about Sapient B very much. Her bond towards her AI partner was very much emotional as well as sexual. To put it in lay terms, W and B were deeply in love. Tragically for posterity, this meant that Sapient W took it all to the grave with her, and, of course, Sapient B has withdrawn into complete seclusion since W's death.
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War Sparrow

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #129 on: 29 May 2018, 13:17 »

...why must you hurt me this way, otter? I just got a Faye/Bubbles life montage a la UP! an now I have a sad.
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pecoros7

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #130 on: 29 May 2018, 13:54 »

...

We only see their relationship after the fire though. We don't know how protective Rene was of Brun before that. And the only red or yellow flags I can see from Brun point to being on the spectrum. Any anxiety expressed has been from Rene, not from Brun.

I'm not saying that a history of abuse isn't possible, but there are more obvious and mundane reasons for Rene to be protective and that makes abuse a bit of a logical leap for me.
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Neko_Ali

Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #131 on: 29 May 2018, 14:34 »

It took me a little while to remember that Roko has a last name, Basilisk. Wonder why more AIs don't seem to use last names? ("Corpse Witch" just seems like a first name to me, but I dunno.)

AIs probably don't have a last name because the primary reason they exist is to establish a family. Humans use last names to identify who they are related to. AIs don't have that. As I talked about in another thread there has been no indication of AIs having parents, children or siblings. An AI just seems to happen and is kept in sort of AI Nursery probably until they have absorbed enough information to operate as independent entities. Momo is only a few years old yet in most ways she's more mature than Marigold.

The other reason for multiple names is to identify people with similar names. How many AI out there are named Gary? They would need some way to identify between two AI with the same name. We're not sure just how big the AI population is though. It's possible there just aren't a lot and every AI has taken or been given an individual name. Of course that doesn't help when an AI takes a common name for a human, in cases where you can't tell they are a robot, like in writing. Unlike the show Big O where androids names all started with the letter R. ie, R.Dorothy.

As far as why Roko has two names, her name is based on Roko's Basilisk people have pointed out. The name of a theory or thought experiment about the dangers of developing AI intelligence. Interesting that someone who chose the profession of police officer has that name as an AI cop.
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Case

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #132 on: 29 May 2018, 15:22 »

It took me a little while to remember that Roko has a last name, Basilisk. Wonder why more AIs don't seem to use last names? ("Corpse Witch" just seems like a first name to me, but I dunno.)

AIs probably don't have a last name because the primary reason they exist is to establish a family.

You sure about that? Or about the universal validity of that statement? When you have a registry or phonebook, that thought makes sense - only those are very, very recent innovations at least amongst Europids

Quote
Surnames have not always existed and today are not universal in all cultures. This tradition has arisen separately in different cultures around the world. In Europe, the concept of surnames became popular in the Roman Empire and expanded throughout the Mediterranean and Western Europe as a result. During the Middle Ages this practice died out as Germanic, Persian, and other influences took hold. During the late Middle Ages surnames gradually re-emerged, first in the form of bynames (typically indicating individual's occupation or area of residence), which gradually evolved into modern surnames. In China surnames have been the norm since at least the 2nd century BC.

The 14 most common surnames in Germany all indicate (medieval) occupations (and IIRC, the concept of surnames didn't become widespread hereabouts until about 200 years ago):

1. Müller, occupation (miller)
2. Schmidt, occupation (smith) (all homophones combined would rank first)
3. Schneider, occupation (tailor)
4. Fischer, occupation (fisherman)
5. Weber, occupation (weaver)
6. Mayer, occupation (originally a manorial landlord, later a self-employed farmer) (all homophones combined would rank second)
7. Wagner, occupation (wainwright)
8. Becker, occupation (baker)
9. Schulz, occupation (medieval sheriff)
10. Hoffmann, occupation (steward or courtier)
11. Schäfer, occupation (shepherd)
12. Koch, occupation (cook)
13. Bauer, occupation (farmer or peasant)
14. Richter, occupation (judge)

The line is interrupted for the first time at place 15 with "Klein" - "(the) little (one)". The 100 most common surnames in German are derived from: occupations, traits, first names and, very rarely: housenames (König, Kaiser - King, Emperor, respectively) or tribe.

All in all, 47 of the 100 most common surnames in Germany indicate occupations. The occupation of farmer ('Bauer' in German, place 13) was so widespread that it was unsuited to differentiate between different people living even in very small rural communities - hence, German farmers often had surnames referencing their place of residence ('Berg(mann)' or 'Bach(mann)' - mountain(-man) and 'creek(-man)', respectively).

Could be its different with you 'Merricans, but Krauts seemed to find it more practical to associate people with what they were doing, or where they were doing it - maybe because those are pretty handy ways of locating the respective individual, when you don't have a county clerk's registry.

Edit: Spanish naming customs even use two surnames.
« Last Edit: 29 May 2018, 15:43 by Case »
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Greymoon

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #133 on: 29 May 2018, 15:43 »

It took me a little while to remember that Roko has a last name, Basilisk. Wonder why more AIs don't seem to use last names? ("Corpse Witch" just seems like a first name to me, but I dunno.)

AIs probably don't have a last name because the primary reason they exist is to establish a family.

You sure about that? Or about the universal validity of that statement? When you have a registry or phonebook, that thought makes sense - only those are very, very recent innovations at least amongst Europids

Quote
Surnames have not always existed and today are not universal in all cultures. This tradition has arisen separately in different cultures around the world. In Europe, the concept of surnames became popular in the Roman Empire and expanded throughout the Mediterranean and Western Europe as a result. During the Middle Ages this practice died out as Germanic, Persian, and other influences took hold. During the late Middle Ages surnames gradually re-emerged, first in the form of bynames (typically indicating individual's occupation or area of residence), which gradually evolved into modern surnames. In China surnames have been the norm since at least the 2nd century BC.

The 14 most common surnames in Germany all indicate (medieval) occupations (and IIRC, the concept of surnames didn't become widespread hereabouts until about 200 years ago):

1. Müller, occupation (miller)
2. Schmidt, occupation (smith) (all homophones combined would rank first)
3. Schneider, occupation (tailor)
4. Fischer, occupation (fisherman)
5. Weber, occupation (weaver)
6. Mayer, occupation (originally a manorial landlord, later a self-employed farmer) (all homophones combined would rank second)
7. Wagner, occupation (wainwright)
8. Becker, occupation (baker)
9. Schulz, occupation (medieval sheriff)
10. Hoffmann, occupation (steward or courtier)
11. Schäfer, occupation (shepherd)
12. Koch, occupation (cook)
13. Bauer, occupation (farmer or peasant)
14. Richter, occupation (judge)

The line is interrupted for the first time at place 15 with "Klein" - "(the) little (one)". The 100 most common surnames in German are derived from: occupations, traits, first names and, very rarely: housenames (König, Kaiser - King, Emperor, respectively) or tribe.

All in all, 47 of the 100 most common surnames in Germany indicate occupations. The occupation of farmer ('Bauer' in German, place 13) was so widespread that it was unsuited to differentiate between different people living even in very small rural communities - hence, German farmers often had surnames referencing their place of residence ('Berg(mann)' or 'Bach(mann)' - mountain(-man) and 'creek(-man)', respectively).

Could be its different with you 'Merricans, but Krauts seemed to find it more practical to associate people with what they were doing, or where they were doing it - maybe because those are pretty handy ways of locating the respective individual, when you don't have a county clerk's registry.

Somehow, "Roko Cop" seems a bit much ;)
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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #134 on: 29 May 2018, 15:57 »

I wonder if Roko chose Basilisk or if someone important to her gave it.
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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #135 on: 29 May 2018, 16:01 »

I wonder if Roko chose Basilisk or if someone important to her gave it.

Perhaps a baker. Or a Baker.
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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #136 on: 29 May 2018, 16:19 »

Somehow, "Roko Cop" seems a bit much ;)
Roko Schultz (or Schulz, if you use the spelling from Case's list).  Now if Elliot's surname turns out to be Becker....
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Neko_Ali

Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #137 on: 29 May 2018, 16:49 »

It took me a little while to remember that Roko has a last name, Basilisk. Wonder why more AIs don't seem to use last names? ("Corpse Witch" just seems like a first name to me, but I dunno.)

AIs probably don't have a last name because the primary reason they exist is to establish a family.

You sure about that? Or about the universal validity of that statement? When you have a registry or phonebook, that thought makes sense - only those are very, very recent innovations at least amongst Europids

Gee, sorry a general statement I made is not 100% true in all cases. Also keep in mind that jobs in those times were passed from father to son generally. So yes, families who took the name Baker because the father who was a baker probably also had sons who were bakers as well. In some cultures the last name was literally the parent's name with -son or -daughter added to the end. So yes, I stand by my statement that *generally* people took a last name to identify who their family was, because in those days who your family was was as if not more important than who you were.
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Milayna

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #138 on: 29 May 2018, 17:17 »

Heh, Jeph definitely reads the forums.

I'm, uh, gonna leave most of this to the people who have a stake in this. Though one curiosity: Has Bubbles said 'fuck" before?
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mgrayson3

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #139 on: 29 May 2018, 17:29 »

It took me a little while to remember that Roko has a last name, Basilisk. Wonder why more AIs don't seem to use last names? ("Corpse Witch" just seems like a first name to me, but I dunno.)

AIs probably don't have a last name because the primary reason they exist is to establish a family.

You sure about that? Or about the universal validity of that statement? When you have a registry or phonebook, that thought makes sense - only those are very, very recent innovations at least amongst Europids

Gee, sorry a general statement I made is not 100% true in all cases. Also keep in mind that jobs in those times were passed from father to son generally. So yes, families who took the name Baker because the father who was a baker probably also had sons who were bakers as well. In some cultures the last name was literally the parent's name with -son or -daughter added to the end. So yes, I stand by my statement that *generally* people took a last name to identify who their family was, because in those days who your family was was as if not more important than who you were.

In modern Iceland, last names for men are all (father's first name)+(son) and women's are (mother's first name)+(daughter). So the phone books are organized by first name!
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #140 on: 29 May 2018, 17:39 »

Comic is up. I'm Claire-ing out!! :claireface:
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #141 on: 29 May 2018, 17:41 »

TWO HOURS??? Damn ladies, didn't know you had it in ya.  :laugh:
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zisraelsen

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Case

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #143 on: 29 May 2018, 17:43 »

Gee, sorry a general statement I made is not 100% true in all cases.

Then ... it is not a general statement, isn't it? Or am I confusing generic and general? :psyduck:

Neko - I don't know what you read into my statement, but please keep in mind that I am not a member of your culture. I asked you questions. Generally (Ha!  :lol:), I tend to not ask questions when I think I know something, or when I am sure that what I say is correct.

Edit: I mean that I was inviting you to a discussion/speculation, not trying to one-upmanshipwhatnot you.

Also keep in mind that jobs in those times were passed from father to son generally. So yes, families who took the name Baker because the father who was a baker probably also had sons who were bakers as well. In some cultures the last name was literally the parent's name with -son or -daughter added to the end. So yes, I stand by my statement that *generally* people took a last name to identify who their family was, because in those days who your family was was as if not more important than who you were.

Uhmmmmh - what 'days' are you talking about? The Ständeordnung (if that's what you're referring to) certainly had an influence on naming conventions in central Europe - but that's a societal model from medieval times. IIRC, surnames weren't formalized in my country until the 17th century. I honestly don't know how much 'these days' overlap with 'those days', but my history class emphasized that the Ständeordnung was pretty much obsolete when the industrial revolution came along.

And I mean: I don't know.

Edit: "Berufsfreiheit" - Freedom to chose one's occupation - seems to have been established in various constitutional documents in the German countries during the early 19th century (1820 - 1871).

In some cultures the last name was literally the parent's name with -son or -daughter added to the end.
So yes, I stand by my statement that *generally* people took a last name to identify who their family was, because in those days who your family was was as if not more important than who you were.

Yes. Some Scandinavian naming conventions work that way. Jewish too. If I'm not mistaken, those conventions mean that the children have a different surname than at least one of their parents, right? Which means that theirs is not a family name in the German-, or American sense, right?

I also gave you one other example - Spanish naming conventions - that do not use family names in the sense that you or I understand them.

In modern Iceland, last names for men are all (father's first name)+(son) and women's are (mother's first name)+(daughter). So the phone books are organized by first name!

That would mean Icelanders (that correct?) do not have family names in the sense that all members of one "family unit" (parents + 1st gen offspring) share one single name?
« Last Edit: 29 May 2018, 19:17 by Case »
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #144 on: 29 May 2018, 17:46 »

NOT sudden. NOT unexpected. Faye, everyone has just been waiting for you guys to get together. So be together and know that everyone who cares about you wants this for you. Even your SISTER has been waiting. So don't worry!
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #145 on: 29 May 2018, 17:49 »

And your reality wasn't the only thing reverberating... :wink:
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Undrneath

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #146 on: 29 May 2018, 17:51 »

TWO HOURS??? Damn ladies, didn't know you had it in ya.  :laugh:

Two hours can be a good start or a good finish depending on how you pace yourself.
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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #147 on: 29 May 2018, 17:56 »

"What do YOU think they've been doing?"

OK, don't tell me, don't tell me!... Ummm...Checkers?...
Oooh, I know! Charades!...
(Dunno why they had to take their clothes off to play Charades though...)



 :-P
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fayelovesbubbles

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #148 on: 29 May 2018, 17:57 »

True. What would I know? Answer: nothing.   :roll:  :laugh:
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Zebediah

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Re: WCDT strips 3751-3755 (28th May to 1st June 2018)
« Reply #149 on: 29 May 2018, 18:00 »

Oooh, I know! Charades!...
(Dunno why they had to take their clothes off to play Charades though...)

What, you’ve never played strip charades before?

;)
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