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Poll

What should be the topic of Claire's Masters Thesis?

ABC's - An Alternative to the Dewey Decimal System
- 3 (6.3%)
The Smell of Books as Aromatherapy
- 4 (8.3%)
Integrating the AI into Library Systems
- 21 (43.8%)
Puns and the Puerile Librarian
- 9 (18.8%)
Libraries are Serious Business, Yo!
- 7 (14.6%)
Purple Monkey Dishwashers and Spathe Ham (guaranteed winner)
- 0 (0%)
Screw It, I'm letting an AnthroPC do this for me
- 1 (2.1%)
Other (please specify)
- 3 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 48


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Author Topic: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)  (Read 9615 times)

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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #100 on: 23 Aug 2018, 03:59 »

I don't think that the recent stories have been that bad, but they feel a bit preachy, and I think it's because the "messages" of the stories, for lack of a better word, have been delivered 100% in the text. There's no subtext. But I wait in hope that we'll see a story with the same impact as the Faye and Bubbles storyline.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #101 on: 23 Aug 2018, 04:03 »

Or maybe recent stories just seem bad compared to the creamy smooth characterizations of the "Bubs/Faye Finally Get Off The Pot" storyline.

Jeph can't hit the nail square on the head with EVERY swing.
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Case

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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #102 on: 23 Aug 2018, 04:08 »

Psssst... It's "MartEn"... Doesn't exactly bother me, but I've seen people hauled over the coals for continually mis-spelling character names.
(I'm actually surprised no-one's noticed :)  )

I noticed; but these days I tend to wait until I see a clear pattern of repeated errors before bringing it up.

« Last Edit: 23 Aug 2018, 11:10 by Case »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #103 on: 23 Aug 2018, 04:52 »

Of course, one has more experience with theses than the other.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #104 on: 23 Aug 2018, 05:02 »

(I'm actually surprised no-one's noticed :)  )

I noticed; but these days I tend to wait until I see a clear pattern of repeated errors before bringing it up.

I saw two posts with it... and thought.. maybe best to give a wee nudge... :)
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #105 on: 23 Aug 2018, 05:13 »

Of course, one has more experience with theses than the other.

But the other may be pining for the old days when I was stricter...

I saw two posts with it... and thought.. maybe best to give a wee nudge... :)

Fair enough; although my attempt to take a back seat hasn't shown as much as I expected, I do spend less time checking the forum than I used to, so I'm more likely to miss things.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #106 on: 23 Aug 2018, 05:51 »

These last two arcs have felt sort of "off" overall.

Filler Arc sounds wrong. My guess is focusing away from the banger that was the Fay and Bubbles thing. Boring stuff happens, life goes on. Marten has to catch up to Faye, as far as occurrences are concerned. Maybe we see Penny again, maybe even Raven.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #107 on: 23 Aug 2018, 06:01 »

This year we've had two major stories that shook the status quo of the comic.

They were also quite long compared to other arcs and felt drawn out towards the end. What seems to be happening here is Jeph is trying to get back into shorter arcs, going for more character development in a shorter time frame. Or he's throwing out drama for shits and giggles, who knows.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #108 on: 23 Aug 2018, 09:43 »

I feel like people are attaching more gloom to two imperfect people making mistakes and then talking them out like adults than they should.

"Talking them out like adults" doesn't mean shitting all over one person for making a non-mistake because you're not under any circumstances allowed to acknowledge that the other person is being a dick. That's more what you call "being in an unhealthy relationship that should end".
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Case

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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #109 on: 23 Aug 2018, 11:14 »

I feel like people are attaching more gloom to two imperfect people making mistakes and then talking them out like adults than they should.

"Talking them out like adults" doesn't mean shitting all over one person for making a non-mistake because you're not under any circumstances allowed to acknowledge that the other person is being a dick. That's more what you call "being in an unhealthy relationship that should end".

Tell you what: We'll talk about that when it happens, deal?

Edit: If you feel like talking about unhealthy/abusive relationships in general, independent of the comic, you could also create a thread in the Dicuss!-, or Relate - subfora (Emphasis on 'could' - no mandatory involved). No need to wait until you have a postcount in the x*hundreds, they've been FFA for nigh-on a decade now.
« Last Edit: 23 Aug 2018, 14:01 by Case »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #110 on: 23 Aug 2018, 11:19 »

Maybe you should read the entire post

I read them. I used short quotes to avoid spam since long-ish posts.

Maybe you shouldn't confuse disagreeing with my response as an indication I didn't read the same thing you did.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #111 on: 23 Aug 2018, 11:27 »

I don't think that the recent stories have been that bad, but they feel a bit preachy, and I think it's because the "messages" of the stories, for lack of a better word, have been delivered 100% in the text. There's no subtext. But I wait in hope that we'll see a story with the same impact as the Faye and Bubbles storyline.

Hmm, not sure if I feel like the story arcs are preachy, I just feel that the narratives and conversations have felt somewhat unnatural. I felt this especially with the Faye/Sam/Jim arc, where some of it felt slightly off, kinda like Jeph was forcing the conversation in a way to suit the point that he was trying to make too much.

Likewise, I feel that the dismissal of Claire by Marten felt forced. In the morning before going to work Marten was very aware of Claire's stressing and specifically inquired about it, yet when coming home from work and Claire specifically mentions her stress Marten suddenly ignores and dismisses it? I just don't buy that, especially knowing Marten's history of being quite observant of those types of emotional cues in people.

Additionally, somehow the current arc feels somewhat like a repeat of situations between Marten and Dora. I can't really put my finger on it and I know a real similar situation never occurred with Dora, but it still feels like I've seen it before. Does that make sense to anyone but me? Maybe not.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #112 on: 23 Aug 2018, 11:32 »

If his mental state is anything like mine, he noticed she was stressed and asked her about it. She said she was ok

-- except she didn't. She said, "Well, um, actually I've been really stressed about my exams, and-"

That sentence fragment doesn't even have a "k" in it.

Edit: if you're suggesting because at some point in the past she responded "ok" to being asked how she was that justifies assuming she will remain okay indefinitely thereafter and it's then fine to not pay attention to how she answers a question she's asked...yeah, no, that's not an improvement.

To those saying Marten should know better/should have known to listen, Iíd like to offer a different perspective.

Even if this is the case, I'm decently certain no therapist would tell you a better response would be to cut the anxious person off midway through their first sentence in response to you asking them how their day went. I don't see much support for this perspective in this context.

The post you are referring to: "he noticed she was stressed and asked her about it. She said she was ok", I am pretty sure that brilligtove was referring to the 'morning' comic when Marten inquired about Claire's state of mind before he went to work. In that instance, she did mention she was ok.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #113 on: 23 Aug 2018, 11:34 »

Directly addressed in the "Edit" sentence.

Regarding this feeling familiar to Marten & Dora for you: possibly just an effect of our having seen Dora & Marten fight/argue/talk about problems more than most other relationships in the strip?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #114 on: 23 Aug 2018, 11:45 »

Directly addressed in the "Edit" sentence.

Regarding this feeling familiar to Marten & Dora for you: possibly just an effect of our having seen Dora & Marten fight/argue/talk about problems more than most other relationships in the strip?

I only mentioned it since it makes for a slightly different read of brilligtove's post, I wasn't quite sure whether the edit was about that. Thanks for clarifying :)

I do to some extent agree with brilligtove's interpretation: if I ask my partner in the morning specifically whether she is stressed and she stresses that she is fine, after a day at work I may not immediately pick up on her answering my 'how was your day' question suddenly very differently (and with different emotion) than in the morning. Should I pick up on that? Yes, but I'm also not perfect and I am simply putting the not immediately picking up on it in context. Plus there is the general problem of most people not expecting any other response to 'how was your day?' other than 'fine', and therefore not really listening to the response at all.

Anyway, as I already mentioned I find Marten's dismissal of Claire not logical after his morning inquiry and his history in the comic.

Edit: with regards to Dora/Marten, yeah that's possible, I suppose they are the only couple where we have seen a lot of typical couple-y issues
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #115 on: 23 Aug 2018, 12:43 »

I'm pretty certain the dig about the laundry was meant to be in good fun and was taken by Marten as such.
I'm not confident it was. I've seen too many of that kind of "little jokes" turn into serious arguments.
...Can second that, not about "little jokes" but about laundry being Serious Business
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Case

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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #116 on: 23 Aug 2018, 13:53 »

I've been wondering ...

... Jeph spent a long time living in a University-town, where students/academics mix with the "people actually living here"/non-academics. And one function of Marten as a character is to represent the latter group (Marten completed college, right? Does that mean he has a Bachelor-degree? I admit that I don't really know how that compares to other education systems - Do you count as an 'egghead' with a Bachelors' degree?).

Maybe Marten simply doesn't realize the degree of exam-anxiety Claire is experiencing? Claire is a grad-student, and the exams she's study for are her Masters-exams, right? That's probably quite a different game to a Bachelor (can't really speak from experience - in my curriculum, Masters-equivalent was the lowest qualifying degree). Also, exams are a different game depending on whether you plan on staying in Academia or not - in the latter case, the exam-stress is compounded by 'having to find a job Arghfarblarguurrrggglll'-anxiety, and the knowledge that one chapter of your life is ending.

Background is that an acquaintance (we both live in a University town) recently complained to me that she sort of 'misses' not having done an advanced degree - not because she wants one, but because all her friends have, and she regrets not having that experience because she can't share with her friends.

Could be as simple as different life experiences.

I don't think that the recent stories have been that bad, but they feel a bit preachy, and I think it's because the "messages" of the stories, for lack of a better word, have been delivered 100% in the text. There's no subtext. But I wait in hope that we'll see a story with the same impact as the Faye and Bubbles storyline.

Hmm, not sure if I feel like the story arcs are preachy, I just feel that the narratives and conversations have felt somewhat unnatural. I felt this especially with the Faye/Sam/Jim arc, where some of it felt slightly off, kinda like Jeph was forcing the conversation in a way to suit the point that he was trying to make too much.

I wouldn't use 'preachy', either - but yes, recent arcs have been a little bit 'exposition-heavy'. Though I guess that's simply a hazard of the format - a three-comic arc is 15 or so panels. Not much space left after he's crammed in the plot. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Jeph first tried to do without the exposition, and then threw his hands up and hollered "Fine!".
« Last Edit: 23 Aug 2018, 14:11 by Case »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #117 on: 23 Aug 2018, 14:12 »

If memory serves, Marten has a double BA: music and critical theory. So yes, bachelors degrees. Two of them. Both useless.

Claire’s exam anxiety seems to be typical of graduate students approaching the end of their studies. I don’t have a graduate degree myself but know a lot of people who do (as well as many with incomplete graduate degrees) so I’ve seen a lot of it. Marten should have seen some of it by now too. I’m sure he knows it’s stressful for Claire; he just doesn’t know how best to deal with it.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #118 on: 23 Aug 2018, 15:03 »

I am slightly concerned that we are once again normalizing the use of violence again a male as humorous.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #119 on: 23 Aug 2018, 15:18 »

"Talking them out like adults" doesn't mean shitting all over one person for making a non-mistake because you're not under any circumstances allowed to acknowledge that the other person is being a dick. That's more what you call "being in an unhealthy relationship that should end".

When did that happen?

Marten came back to talk to her again, Claire, with a little bit of prodding, explained why it bothered her, and Marten acknowledged that he could have done better. This is normal, healthy human behavior. Even the fact that she needed to be prodded to open up about it normal human insecurity.

And the laundry thing is a fourth panel joke, not signs of impending abuse or doom.

Seriously, would you view yourself or your significant other with the same hypercritical lense? 

I am slightly concerned that we are once again normalizing the use of violence again a male as humorous.

There is nothing normalizing about being hit in the head with a dildo by a little robot with orb hands.  :-P
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #120 on: 23 Aug 2018, 16:24 »

Maybe you should read the entire post

I read them. I used short quotes to avoid spam since long-ish posts.

Maybe you shouldn't confuse disagreeing with my response as an indication I didn't read the same thing you did.

I didn't disagree with what you said.

*taps microphone* Is this thing on? I feel like there's a lingering misunderstanding I don't know how to address.
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Case

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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #121 on: 23 Aug 2018, 16:38 »

There is nothing normalizing about being hit in the head with a dildo by a little robot with orb hands.  :-P

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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #122 on: 23 Aug 2018, 16:49 »

Absolutely not normalizing. BTW does anyone know where I can buy a robot with orb hands? Asking for a friend.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #123 on: 23 Aug 2018, 17:20 »

This arc feels contrived to me. 

And Marten is doing himself no favours by starting with mentioning that he has come because of what Pintsize said...

I see two imperfect people learning how to be a close(r) couple and communicate with one another. IMO, nothing is wrong with that even though they both have things to learn. Whether or not they learn them? Who knows? Claire is still pretty young (mid/early 20s) and Marten is in maybe his late 20s, but I think a person who goes out of their way to apologize (and actually makes an effort to make it better and not repeat it often) is pretty mature...unless the thing they are apologizing about is just an attempt at to be excuse for and later repeat bad (or horrific) behavior.

These past stories have seemed to resolve a little easily, but that's kind of how real life goes. It feels like they are meant to be intermissions before another large storyline happens, and they are character-building at the same timeóshowing the character's flaws, vulnerabilities, and strengths as well. They actually pair together well as they both show Faye and Marten taking responsibility for their mistakes and making attempts to change. This is part of why I mentioned they seem older/more mature (more than the most of the castóespecially the newer characters). I can't place a finger on what it is (mannerisms or physical character change), but it seems to be in the artwork in these past two stories as well.
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #124 on: 23 Aug 2018, 17:59 »

Early comic is early.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #125 on: 23 Aug 2018, 18:04 »

But would Marten slam a baby into another baby to test its durability?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #126 on: 23 Aug 2018, 18:58 »

I love that Bubbles delivering a stern lecture is Marten's go-to threat.  It's perfect.  Bubs' stern lecture, there's no possibility of missing the point and thinking your sister's boyfriend is just a psycho who beat you up with no good reason - she will explain slowly and clearly EXACTLY what Clinton has done wrong so that no denial can possibly remain.

(Although Marten may well be able to take Clinton... he's not exactly buff either.)

Also, it's nice to see Marten able to joke about his lack of physical prowess.  Remember waaaaaaaaaaaaay back when when he felt bad about not being able to keep up with Steve and carry an entire end of the couch by himself?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #128 on: 23 Aug 2018, 19:30 »


Also, it's nice to see Marten able to joke about his lack of physical prowess.  Remember waaaaaaaaaaaaay back when when he felt bad about not being able to keep up with Steve and carry an entire end of the couch by himself?

Well he should feel bad about it, there doesn't seem to be any physical reason why Marten is so feeble so why not do something about it
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #129 on: 23 Aug 2018, 19:31 »

But would Marten slam a baby into another baby to test its durability?

That's not something he'd normally do...

(The thought of Marten with abridged Kirito's personality is simultaneously hilarious and deeply disturbing. Though Claire as abridged Liz works really well.)
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #130 on: 23 Aug 2018, 19:34 »


Also, it's nice to see Marten able to joke about his lack of physical prowess.  Remember waaaaaaaaaaaaay back when when he felt bad about not being able to keep up with Steve and carry an entire end of the couch by himself?

Well he should feel bad about it, there doesn't seem to be any physical reason why Marten is so feeble so why not do something about it

Why isn't Marten proactive? Question for the ages.

More seriously, not everyone desires physical prowess.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #131 on: 23 Aug 2018, 19:49 »

I wanna see Marten and Clinton have a slap fight. We haven't seen one in AGES.

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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #132 on: 23 Aug 2018, 20:29 »

I want to see Marten work with Claire to convince her she really does have it all together.

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(rilly there are 5. u can look it up)
« Last Edit: 23 Aug 2018, 20:45 by Perfectly Reasonable »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #133 on: 23 Aug 2018, 20:44 »

I wanna see Marten and Clinton have a slap fight. We haven't seen one in AGES.

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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #134 on: 23 Aug 2018, 20:58 »

I was thinking about why Bubbles would step in because Marten asked, and then tried to put words on what their relationship is.

Bubbles is sort of like a sister in law to Marten.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #135 on: 23 Aug 2018, 22:51 »

Clinton will give her crap? Jeez, it really doesnít look like Claire sees how much Clinton cares for her. Specially true given how much more assertive he was at picking up on Claire freaking out and wanting her to talk about it than Marten.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #136 on: 23 Aug 2018, 23:25 »

From the start of this extended Claire character arc, I've felt that Claire's anxiety is more about her own self-expectations than anything else. She's simply projecting her fears of failure and her sudden uncertainty about her future onto everyone else. She would be the one disappointed in her, not anyone else. I think Marten should be applauded for not using the dreaded "that's silly" counter-argument, even though Claire's fears aren't entirely reality-based.

Regarding Marten the fighter, the only victory that Jeph has recorded was his defeat of a kung-fu monk. In that case, Marten had the element of surprise on his part and I doubt the monk in question was ready for skillet-fu. :-P Seriously, this cements in my mind that Marten is primarily a support-class like a Minstrel/Bard rather than a front-line character!

Yes, as everyone here has probably already realised, there is no fate worse than being lectured by Bubbles and being told that she is disappointed in you! Truly a fate worse than death!
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #137 on: 24 Aug 2018, 00:50 »

Underestimate babies at your own peril:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuSBCIV1zuQ
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #138 on: 24 Aug 2018, 06:04 »

I was thinking about why Bubbles would step in because Marten asked, and then tried to put words on what their relationship is.

Bubbles is sort of like a sister in law to Marten.

And they all live together, too, but it's really easy to forget as we haven't the couples interact often.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #139 on: 24 Aug 2018, 06:11 »

It's pretty clear (from the one-off strip where Marten and Bubbles were doing the laundry and Bubbles crushed Pintsize's head) that Bubbles and Marten have got over their rough start and are friends. I don't think that Faye and Claire will ever be close (mostly due to their old squabble about who is the house's alpha female), they seem to have reached some kind of working relationship too.

I'm hoping for a strip when everyone is watching a horror movie and all the humans end up hanging onto Bubbles for protection and comfort after a particularly effective jump scare.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #140 on: 24 Aug 2018, 06:40 »

More seriously, not everyone desires physical prowess.

Fun story. I got hella depression and I thought: "Man, exercise makes me feel a lot better. Me not wanting to get swole is probably just sour grapes. If I put in the work for a few months, I'll have that bulk and not want to lose it. Then all I have to do is maintain the routine."

So then I did that. Hour running everyday on the treadmill, pushups, pullups, weights, the whole lot. Then after three months of this I had, like, biceps. And calves like steel. And abs. Woo! And I was like... yeah this is what I was going for. High five, me.

Then I looked in the mirror, and went... I don't actually care. It's still not something I care about now that I have it. I don't like myself more, this doesn't do anything for my self esteem, I was already fit, and it isn't applicable to anything I do in my day-to-day. I would rather spend the time I've been spending exercising on studying harder.

It wasn't wasted effort. I needed to do it to know it wasn't something I wanted. But doing exercise takes a ton of work and time that Marten's already avoiding putting into the band he actually wants, not muscle he's simply jealous of.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #141 on: 24 Aug 2018, 06:43 »

That reminds me, they're short a drummer. All in favour of Bubbles trying out?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #142 on: 24 Aug 2018, 07:00 »

But would a drum machine really fit their sound?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #143 on: 24 Aug 2018, 07:20 »

I don't know; it'd be interesting to see Bubbles express herself artistically. Though perhaps a different medium.

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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #144 on: 24 Aug 2018, 07:23 »

I just re-read today's comic. Not once does Marten say "your fears are unfounded". It's all "I don't care, mom loves you anyway, and anyone who'll be disappointed is an idiot and will have to deal with consequences. Except you."
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #145 on: 24 Aug 2018, 08:03 »

I just re-read today's comic. Not once does Marten say "your fears are unfounded". It's all "I don't care, mom loves you anyway, and anyone who'll be disappointed is an idiot and will have to deal with consequences. Except you."

He hasn't said that in this conversation, but he did say something to that effect in the first conversation (before Pintsize hit him with the cluedick). That answer being unsatisfactory, or at least insufficient, he's shifted his ground.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #146 on: 24 Aug 2018, 08:24 »

I don't think that Faye and Claire will ever be close (mostly due to their old squabble about who is the house's alpha female)

I think the question of who is the apartment’s alpha female has been permanently settled.

It’s Bubbles.

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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #147 on: 24 Aug 2018, 08:52 »

I just re-read today's comic. Not once does Marten say "your fears are unfounded". It's all "I don't care, mom loves you anyway, and anyone who'll be disappointed is an idiot and will have to deal with consequences. Except you."

He hasn't said that in this conversation, but he did say something to that effect in the first conversation (before Pintsize hit him with the cluedick). That answer being unsatisfactory, or at least insufficient, he's shifted his ground.

However, once Marten realised he's made a misstep, he goes into fully supporting Claire. If she fails, then she tries again. He won't be disappointed in her. He'll be in her corner no matter what.

But if you notice, Claire is saying "Everyone will be disappointed in her", which is a sign of the impossibly high bar she's set for herself. Even when Marten says he won't be disappointed, Claire says her mother, despite evidence that her mother loves her unconditionally and would probably join Marten in saying she wouldn't be disappointed. Then she shifts to Clinton, again, despite the evidence that okay, he can be a bit of a jerk at times, he still loves and supports Claire no matter what.

What Claire says is "Everyone expects her to ace the exams and find a great job right away." Never do we see anyone pressuring Claire to do well. And never do we see Claire say "I want to ace this exam, but I'm afraid I won't live up to my own impossibly high standards". She keeps shifting the blame elsewhere.

The problem seems to be less Marten not listening but Claire needing to realise she has this great web of support or that its okay to fail sometimes and its not the end of the world.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #148 on: 24 Aug 2018, 09:25 »

I just re-read today's comic. Not once does Marten say "your fears are unfounded". It's all "I don't care, mom loves you anyway, and anyone who'll be disappointed is an idiot and will have to deal with consequences. Except you."

He hasn't said that in this conversation, but he did say something to that effect in the first conversation (before Pintsize hit him with the cluedick). That answer being unsatisfactory, or at least insufficient, he's shifted his ground.

However, once Marten realised he's made a misstep, he goes into fully supporting Claire. If she fails, then she tries again. He won't be disappointed in her. He'll be in her corner no matter what.

But if you notice, Claire is saying "Everyone will be disappointed in her", which is a sign of the impossibly high bar she's set for herself. Even when Marten says he won't be disappointed, Claire says her mother, despite evidence that her mother loves her unconditionally and would probably join Marten in saying she wouldn't be disappointed. Then she shifts to Clinton, again, despite the evidence that okay, he can be a bit of a jerk at times, he still loves and supports Claire no matter what.

What Claire says is "Everyone expects her to ace the exams and find a great job right away." Never do we see anyone pressuring Claire to do well. And never do we see Claire say "I want to ace this exam, but I'm afraid I won't live up to my own impossibly high standards". She keeps shifting the blame elsewhere.

The problem seems to be less Marten not listening but Claire needing to realise she has this great web of support or that its okay to fail sometimes and its not the end of the world.

That last part is true, but also quite difficult to overcome.

Personally, I struggled tremendously with fear of failure during grad school. Never having had any real experience of scholastic failure (bar the odd F on tests here and there), struggling with some courses/research projects and therefore a real prospect of failing when it matters most (i.e. the final stage of your student life) almost paralyzed me with anxiety at times. You start imagining that everybody else expects you to continue to excel and would be terribly disappointed in you if you don't. In reality, it's generally only yourself that has these unrealistic expectations.
The odd thing is that rationally I knew all of this even during my struggles in grad school, yet emotionally I still couldn't convince me of it. I would say that Marten is largely on the right track with his approach here. ANy mention of 'that's silly' or the like is not going to help. What is going to help (at least in my personal experience) is reaffirmation of all the support you have and that nobody would be disappointed, and pointing out that even if you don't finish grad school, it's not the end of the world, it will not destroy your life, and it does not mean you have failed.

I wonder if such thoughts and fears are especially prevalent among students who always sailed through school until their grad studies.


 
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Re: WCDT Strips 3811-3815 (20-24 August 2018)
« Reply #149 on: 24 Aug 2018, 09:52 »

On the tangent of Bubbles as a drummer .... Hmmm. And again hmmmm.

She has demonstrated mechanical skills
Has admitted to technical prowess and speed disassembling tactical ordinance.
Definitely has a creative side brought forth via Tea appreciation.

So yeah, she should be able to pull off the technical side with a little instruction and some practice.
The kicker  :claireface: is how she will be able to add creativity to the banging of the drums
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