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Poll

pick a genre and a descriptor

HD
lo-fi
rainy
chill out
vaporwave
retrowave
synthwave
jazz
bossa nova
electro-swing
music box
orchestration
for work, study, relaxation
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Author Topic: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)  (Read 9214 times)

Gyrre

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WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« on: 06 Apr 2019, 08:41 »

Because I like doing weird poll ideas.

How will Claire respond to Marten's first gray/grey hairs? [and why are there two different spellings for the same color?]
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #1 on: 06 Apr 2019, 09:08 »

YouTube has a bunch of plalists for some of the possible poll combinations. Shoutouts to the following channels:
SoulSearchAndDestroy
Odysseus
Cafe Music BGM Channel
insaneintherainmusic this guy successfully arranged a jazz version of the Lavender Town Theme, BTW.
The Musical Ghost
Osirois Music not a typo, awesome work
Rebecca E Tripp

EDIT: typo fix,  forgot 'orchestration' on the poll and figured I'd give some more shoutouts. I rilly need to go to slep
EDIT: another typo fix
« Last Edit: 06 Apr 2019, 09:26 by Gyrre »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #2 on: 06 Apr 2019, 10:12 »

Both spellings of gray/grey have the same origin, but one became popular in the US and the other caught on in the UK. I usually remember it 's "A in America and E in England."
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #3 on: 06 Apr 2019, 12:59 »

Both spellings of gray/grey have the same origin, but one became popular in the US and the other caught on in the UK. I usually remember it 's "A in America and E in England."

Did JJ adopt the Canadian and thus British spelling? [in case you didn't know, Queen Elizabeth the second is the formal head of state of the Commonwealth Realm Canada]
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #4 on: 06 Apr 2019, 14:20 »

Both spellings of gray/grey have the same origin, but one became popular in the US and the other caught on in the UK. I usually remember it 's "A in America and E in England."

Did JJ adopt the Canadian and thus British spelling? [in case you didn't know, Queen Elizabeth the second is the formal head of state of the Commonwealth Realm Canada]

That explains some the reactions to the 'a' spelling.

Some Americans use the 'e' spelling as a number of hoity toity self-proclaimed intellectuals have snooted at the 'a' spelling for decades. Thus muddling the spelling state side.

EDIT: I guess it's just one of those stupid things some people use to try to feel superior to others over.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #5 on: 06 Apr 2019, 15:30 »

Curiously, though British I prefer to use gray.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #6 on: 06 Apr 2019, 18:33 »

I tend to use “grey” because that’s how I pronounce it.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #7 on: 06 Apr 2019, 18:36 »


EDIT: I guess it's just one of those stupid things some people use to try to feel superior to others over.
True story: I once got an account banned by Wikipedia for changing the spelling of an article from the UK spellings to the US spellings.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #8 on: 06 Apr 2019, 18:39 »

I tend to use “grey” because that’s how I pronounce it.
So you say it to rhyme with "whey"
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #9 on: 06 Apr 2019, 18:43 »

In my brain, for unknown reasons, brown scale gray is "gray" and blue-scale grey is "grey".
« Last Edit: 06 Apr 2019, 19:26 by War Sparrow »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #10 on: 06 Apr 2019, 19:02 »

I tend to use “grey” because that’s how I pronounce it.

Makes sense. Only a maniac would pronounce it "gray," right?

I just have one teensy question. Just so I can be, you know, 100% clear on what you're saying.

What are you talking about?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #11 on: 06 Apr 2019, 19:31 »

I tend to use “grey” because that’s how I pronounce it.

If you pronounced it to rhyme with "bay" would you change to "gray"? :-)
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #12 on: 06 Apr 2019, 21:33 »

Silly as it might sound. I swear I can hear a difference between "grey" and "gray" in my head, but any attempt to reproduce the difference aloud fails.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #13 on: 06 Apr 2019, 22:38 »

Silly as it might sound. I swear I can hear a difference between "grey" and "gray" in my head, but any attempt to reproduce the difference aloud fails.
It could depend on the speaker, but I'd imagine it's one of those nuanced differences one has to listen for.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #14 on: 07 Apr 2019, 00:53 »

Hmm; I pronounce whey and bay with the same vowel...
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #15 on: 07 Apr 2019, 02:37 »

I actually spent a good number of minutes wrestling to come up with any kind of difference in pronunciation. I failed utterly.

I'm all for pithy posts, but this one has me baffled.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #16 on: 07 Apr 2019, 03:28 »

Seriously? All right then: “gray” is pronounced with the jaw more open and the tongue slightly farther forward in the mouth than “grey”. To me, at least, this produces a subtle but audible difference in the vowel sounds.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #17 on: 07 Apr 2019, 08:55 »

Hmm; I pronounce whey and bay with the same vowel...

I'm not sure how to describe it, but I guess I half-pronounce the 'y' when the 'e' is used? Making the 'e' kind of like a dotted note.
I hope that makes any amount of sense.

EDIT: for specificity
« Last Edit: 07 Apr 2019, 13:45 by Gyrre »
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #18 on: 07 Apr 2019, 12:51 »

I suppose if it comes down to pronunciation, its "e" as a short vowel and "a" as a long vowel.

Or it just doesn't matter because linguistic drift has rendered the original pronunciation and spelling moot.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #19 on: 07 Apr 2019, 14:56 »

Seriously?

Okay, you seem incredulous, so let me explain.

First of all, this forum has an international audience. Pronunciation is not, in general, evident from spelling alone. That is why dictionaries use phonetic alphabets. It would help out a lot if you could refer to a phonetic spelling rather than simply say, "it's pronounced like it's spelled," and expect your entire audience to reach the same conclusion.

Secondly, it certainly is not obvious that two different spellings produce two different pronunciations. There is such a thing as homophones - differing spellings producing identical pronunciation. Indeed, according to the OED and Chambers, the two references I have at hand, grey and gray are indeed homophones.

So, just to be clear, I'm not entirely surprised that somewhere in the world, someone believes them to be articulated slightly differently. But, to be honest, your surprise that other people in the world don't share that view I found to be a touch grating.

So, it would be great if you could produce a source for your claim, and the phonetic spelling for each of your two claimed pronunciations, so that the rest of us may be enlightened.

But I strongly suspect that differences come down to regional variation, not spelling.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #20 on: 07 Apr 2019, 15:18 »

Definitely the variations are by region, social class etc. rather than obvious from English spelling. I speak English with an (I hope) educated Australian accent, which apparently sounds "British" to Americans. Nobody in Australia seems to distinguish in pronunciation between "fay" and "fey" for example, or between "lay" and "ley", but I'm sure my pronunciation of centre as "senta" would sound odd to an American.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #21 on: 07 Apr 2019, 19:43 »

It's a greay area.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #22 on: 07 Apr 2019, 19:46 »

Dora still hasn't conquered her security issues and sensitivity.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #23 on: 07 Apr 2019, 19:48 »

And I like the red in her eye.
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #24 on: 07 Apr 2019, 19:58 »

Marten you dimwitted gombeen, you never tell a woman she has a wrinkle.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #25 on: 07 Apr 2019, 20:34 »

"Let's go back to discussing the aging process in the abstract, that was much more fun."
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #26 on: 07 Apr 2019, 23:20 »

I could rant a lot about how it's unfair that Dora gets to rag Marten about him going grey but he's not allowed to tell her that she's got a wrinkle... where is it anyway? However, that would be missing the whole point, which is actually a classic joke about people's reaction to ageing. I've seen basically the same joke done by lots of people in basically the same way.

It's probably an indicator of just how bad I am at reading people that a part of me wonders if Dora is only mad because she hadn't noticed and she wants Marten to tell her where the wrinkle is more urgently.

For some reason, a part of me would be really interested for Dora to have a dream where she meets platinum blonde her and the two compare notes on their lives.
« Last Edit: 08 Apr 2019, 01:20 by BenRG »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #27 on: 08 Apr 2019, 00:32 »

It's a greay area.

I sighed audibly.


As for JJ's question how to make a latte with a dagger: cutting edge technology.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #28 on: 08 Apr 2019, 00:33 »

Marten you dimwitted gombeen, you never tell a woman she has a wrinkle.

Especially if she’s holding a knife.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #29 on: 08 Apr 2019, 00:39 »

I guess I tend to think of the original cast as about my age more or less, but "comic time" makes that less and less true as time goes on. I've been reading this comic since Faye's big reveal about her dad beck in... 2005? Is that right? 14 years? Sweet Sithrak. I was 21! So the original cast has gone from a bit older than me to a bit younger than me (I presume). It's kind of nice to see Marten and Dora reaching that point where they're beginning to notice the accumulation of age.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #30 on: 08 Apr 2019, 00:56 »

Linguistic nerdishness regarding pronunciation incoming.

It's good to be wary when you think you pronounce different words differently. Spelling can heavily influence the perception of what we say without altering the pronunciation itself. It's extremely common and the only way to show it is to record the sound of two words being spoken and objectively comparing the soundwaves.

So I'm not saying "gray" and "grey" are not pronounced differently (they can be, depending on dialect - in IPA terms, it could be the difference between /e/ and /ɛ/, and I think some dialects may go as far as /ć/. The first is a mid-vowel, the next two are each more open. ). But some of y'all might *think* you're pronouncing differently because you keep in mind different spelling. I'm not saying this to any particular person (and I'm not saying it's NECESSARILY true), I'm pointing out the possibility.

No, really. People can swear they pronounce something differently than they actually do. Polish devoices sounds at the end of words (so "d" becomes "t", "g" becomes "k" and so on). It's not optional and every native speaker of Polish does it. But I've met several people who insist they can hear the difference between "kod" ("code") and "kot" ("cat"). They don't and they can't, and it's easily provable (e.g. people can't distinguish between the recording of the two words). But the spelling with a "d" is so suggestive that people expect the spoken "d" sound to be there, so they perceive it as such, even as they pronounce it (correctly) as "t".

(similarly, people often claim to be able to hear the difference between sounds that used to be different, but now they are different only in their spelling. In Polish, the sound "oo" can be spelt both as "u" and "ó", and they are no different, the two spellings exist for historical reasons - the difference disappeared a couple centuries back, so it's extremely unlikely anyone will distingish those. But speakers of standard modern Polish will still claim otherwise, because it *feels* like these two should differ).

EDIT: also, one of the first things I heard at my Phonology lectures at the university was: "don't look at spelling. And never, ever ASK people how they pronounce something if you want to determine the person's pronunciation". The issue being, it's very easy to let spelling influence the way you *think* you say things. Recording a word or phrase spoken by a person who didn't consciously try to pronounce the word "right" is usually much safer.
« Last Edit: 08 Apr 2019, 01:03 by oddtail »
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #31 on: 08 Apr 2019, 01:34 »

Dora is not "baseline"...
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #32 on: 08 Apr 2019, 04:31 »

Dora is not "baseline"...

Before we go falling down that rabbit hole, let's just remember that Dora has an inferiority complex due to Sven's success and lifestyle, she can't take criticism well, she can dish it out but can't take it and is the oldest of the core group. In all, she's very insecure. In one panel, Marten managed to hit three of those buttons at the same time.

And let's be fair, we might joke about hair going grey, but that can be hidden with hair dye. Wrinkles are a whole different problem. Its harder to hide one and its always going to be there the first thing in the morning and the last thing at night.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #33 on: 08 Apr 2019, 05:07 »

Dora is not "baseline"...

Before we go falling down that rabbit hole, let's just remember that Dora has an inferiority complex due to Sven's success and lifestyle, she can't take criticism well, she can dish it out but can't take it and is the oldest of the core group. In all, she's very insecure. In one panel, Marten managed to hit three of those buttons at the same time.

And let's be fair, we might joke about hair going grey, but that can be hidden with hair dye. Wrinkles are a whole different problem. Its harder to hide one and its always going to be there the first thing in the morning and the last thing at night.

Quote from: Dora, sneering
Oh my god, are you bothered by it?
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #34 on: 08 Apr 2019, 05:11 »

Quote from: Dora, sneering
Oh my god, are you bothered by it?

A sneer is a facial expression of scorn or disgust characterized by a slight raising of one corner of the upper lip, known also as curling the lip or turning up the nose.

That's not a sneer. That was closer to a smirk. She's trying really hard not to laugh at Marten and the fact that this is something that is patently bothering Mr. "Everything is chill".
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #35 on: 08 Apr 2019, 08:24 »

Dora is not "baseline"...

Before we go falling down that rabbit hole, let's just remember that Dora has an inferiority complex due to Sven's success and lifestyle, she can't take criticism well, she can dish it out but can't take it and is the oldest of the core group. In all, she's very insecure. In one panel, Marten managed to hit three of those buttons at the same time.

And let's be fair, we might joke about hair going grey, but that can be hidden with hair dye. Wrinkles are a whole different problem. Its harder to hide one and its always going to be there the first thing in the morning and the last thing at night.
There's also the matter of absurd beauty standards women are held to in the Western world.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #36 on: 08 Apr 2019, 09:27 »

Dora is not "baseline"...

Before we go falling down that rabbit hole, let's just remember that Dora has an inferiority complex due to Sven's success and lifestyle, she can't take criticism well, she can dish it out but can't take it and is the oldest of the core group. In all, she's very insecure. In one panel, Marten managed to hit three of those buttons at the same time.

And let's be fair, we might joke about hair going grey, but that can be hidden with hair dye. Wrinkles are a whole different problem. Its harder to hide one and its always going to be there the first thing in the morning and the last thing at night.
There's also the matter of absurd beauty standards women are held to in the Western world.


"standard" and "normal" are social constructs, as harsh as it sounds. And in the western world getting old is somewhat of a taboo, for whatever reason.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #37 on: 08 Apr 2019, 11:10 »

I wonder if I would find Dora's hypocritical double-standard BS more amusing if it hadn't been such a huge factor in her and Marten's breakup.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #38 on: 08 Apr 2019, 14:20 »

I wonder if I would find Dora's hypocritical double-standard BS more amusing if it hadn't been such a huge factor in her and Marten's breakup.

My money is on "highly probable". They're both in denial, only dora is more sensitive.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #39 on: 08 Apr 2019, 15:12 »

I wonder if I would find Dora's hypocritical double-standard BS more amusing if it hadn't been such a huge factor in her and Marten's breakup.
  What then, in your opinion(s) is the difference between Marten and Dora's relationship, and Marten and Claire's?  Dora's control issues vs Claire's openness.


My money is on "highly probable". They're both in denial, only dora is more sensitive.
And has Claire pushed Marten to take more responsibility for himself?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #40 on: 08 Apr 2019, 15:19 »

Some wounds are still fresh after eight or nine years, I see.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #41 on: 08 Apr 2019, 15:50 »

I wonder if I would find Dora's hypocritical double-standard BS more amusing if it hadn't been such a huge factor in her and Marten's breakup.
  What then, in your opinion(s) is the difference between Marten and Dora's relationship, and Marten and Claire's?  Dora's control issues vs Claire's openness.


My money is on "highly probable". They're both in denial, only dora is more sensitive.
And has Claire pushed Marten to take more responsibility for himself?

I think I like the expression "pushed" here. Marten, in his eternal cintentness of kinda underachieving wouldn't have gone on waaaaaay slower. He probably needs some nudging, but not pushing.
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Mr Intrepid

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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #42 on: 08 Apr 2019, 16:45 »

Some wounds are still fresh after eight or nine years, I see.

And they broke up about halfway from now to the beginning of the syrip.
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Mad Cat

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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #43 on: 08 Apr 2019, 17:50 »

And I like the red in her eye.
Oh good. I'm not the only one who perceived Dora's eyes to be two different colors.
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shanejayell

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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #44 on: 08 Apr 2019, 19:46 »

New comic!

God I hated exams.

At least she hasn't had to use the flare yet....

Mr Intrepid

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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #45 on: 08 Apr 2019, 19:47 »

Lunch break for the exams!  And Claire is holding on...but barely.
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zisraelsen

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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #46 on: 08 Apr 2019, 20:15 »

Never before have I so rigorously empathised with a fictional character. On the last day of last quarter, I had two 3 hour exams, back-to-back, across campus. One was history and one was an engineering course, and the content-whiplash certainly didn't help.
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Scarlet Manuka

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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #47 on: 08 Apr 2019, 20:26 »

And has Claire pushed Marten to take more responsibility for himself?
She did make him open a savings account.
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Neko_Ali

Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #48 on: 08 Apr 2019, 21:54 »

New comic!

God I hated exams.

At least she hasn't had to use the flare yet....

Go back and read the subtitle :)
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cybersmurf

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Re: WCDT Strips 3976-3980 (April 8th-12th, 2019)
« Reply #49 on: 08 Apr 2019, 22:17 »

Lunch break for the exams!  And Claire is holding on...but barely.

I'm not entirely sure she is just joking about the apple and carrot sticks. I can see Claire being either overfocused or enough of a nervous wreck to be not realizing she had gone beyond the carrot sticks.
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