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Cat (ideally, the arch-enemy of Melon's pigeon)

11 (27.5%)

Adopts one of Yay's (SpookyBot's) dogs

3 (7.5%)

A dog of her own (maybe something ironic like a pit bull that has no aggression at all)

4 (10%)

A pet plant (Bubbles' suggestion)

1 (2.5%)

A budgerigar (ideal parrot-kin for a small apartment)

4 (10%)

A head ignuana (tribute to Damn You Willis's character of Joyce Brown)

0 (0%)

Pintsize (AnthroPCs were AI pets at first and Pinty feels his work with Marten is done)

2 (5%)

A hamster, gerbil, chinchilla or some other ground rodent

5 (12.5%)

A goldfish

1 (2.5%)

Something very exotic like a snake or some small reptile/amphibian

1 (2.5%)

Other (please specify in comments)

8 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 39

[Is it cold in here?]

I am so massively uncomfortable with today's comic that I created an account to comment. That is just not how mental illness works. It isn't how OCD/anxiety work specifically.

Welcome, new person!

The interesting thing here is that Jeph has first-hand experience of mental health challenges.

I wonder if Hannelore's enlightenment was just the capstone on her months of exposure therapy, which were the real cure. That would make more sense.

[OldGoat]

I am so massively uncomfortable with today's comic that I created an account to comment. That is just not how mental illness works. It isn't how OCD/anxiety work specifically.

The interesting thing here is that Jeph has first-hand experience of mental health challenges.

I wonder if Hannelore's enlightenment was just the capstone on her months of exposure therapy, which were the real cure. That would make more sense.

^^^THIS^^^

Just because one person experiences mental illness in a certain way doesn't mean everyone does.

In my own experience with crippling clinical depression, my physician told me it would be a long struggle to get to "the place," but that up on arriving it would feel like I'd turned a corner.  And ya know what?  He was right.

But, Your mileage WILL vary.  That's one reason mental illness is so God damned difficult to treat.

Jeph is telling his character's story, most likely very well grounded in his own.  Please don't demand that he make it conform to yours.  Your story is yours to tell, not Jeph's, not mine, nor anyone else's.

Jeph, aside from it being an amusing yarn, I follow QC because of your insights into human nature and how relationships work.  I've gleaned things from your work that my PhD shrink wasn't able to show me.   No disappointment here, I think you're doing fine.

[hedgie]

Thank you, Old Goat.  It's not the same for everyone, and I'm starting to think that to some degree, Jeph's experiences are closer to mine than some of the other posters on this subject.  I know that there's no "cure" for mental stuff, but for a number of things, I tend to think of myself as "cured", just because they no longer impact my daily life.

[OldGoat]

Thank you, Old Goat.  It's not the same for everyone, and I'm starting to think that to some degree, Jeph's experiences are closer to mine than some of the other posters on this subject.  I know that there's no "cure" for mental stuff, but for a number of things, I tend to think of myself as "cured", just because they no longer impact my daily life.

Yep.  For me part of it was realizing that I'd never be cured in the sense that it would go away and never bother me again.  It's still there, but I've acquired the ability to cope with it, or at least a large part of it.  And, y'a know?  That's even better. 

If I'm moving through life thinking, "I'm so glad that shit's behind me, it kicked my ass," it implies I might encounter it again.  I'm much better off moving through life thinking, "If that shit turns up again now I know how to deal with it."

[Razgriz]

There's a world of difference between "now that I've confronted the absolute worst I could imagine and done a lot of soul-searching, I'll more easily (but never totally) be able to cope with the obstacles of day-to-day life" and "I shoveled yak poop for a week and realized there's no point to being grossed out by things! Who knew, right? It seems to obvious in retrospect. Anyway, now I'm cured". The former suggests realistic coping and improvement. The latter says that anyone with OCD just isn't trying hard enough.

I mean, imagine this is years ago and someone came here and posted "I don't understand Hannelore, why doesn't she just realize there's no point to being grossed out by things?". They would've been torn apart. That isn't how it works, it's not a decision a person can just make, it isn't that simple... except apparently it is that simple?

[sitnspin]

A lot of people seem to be jumping to the conclusion that Hanners is cured when she never said anything of the sort. Having a breakthrough is not the same as being cured, it's a step, sometimes a significant step, but still just a step. Coping strategies are not cures, they are methods for making your condition more manageable.

[hedgie]

Personally, I've gone from Hanners level flailing when a lady I knew kissed me on the cheek for fronting her a drink[1], and had to psych myself up to shake hands with someone.  Now, as long as it's someone I trust, contact doesn't bother me.  I also no longer have to wash my hands 14 times a day or carry purell.  So I totally grok this change in Hanners' character.

And now, I'm going to have to call out those who are irritated and saying that things "don't work that way".  Jeph has fucking lived this kind of shit, and is going from his own experiences.  His approach might not work for everyone, but it's really dismissive to pretend that his journey isn't possible.

[1] First time I nearly fell off a bar stool sober

[Tova]

Antibacterial soaps do more harm than good, and you probably should not be purchasing them.

I'd better find something to back me up on this, hey? Hang on.

Why you should dispense with antibacterial soaps

The US has banned antibacterial handwashes – here’s why Australia should too

Many studies have shown that the use of consumer antibacterial wash products is no better at removing germs than plain soap and water.
...
Triclosan has also been implicated in the rise of resistance to antibiotics – those life-saving, bacterial infection-fighting medicines we are running out of.

Soap washes away dirt and oil carrying bacteria, but it also disrupts the cell membranes of bacteria, and so is effective at killing it. You just want to be sure to wash your hands properly. Make sure you rub all surfaces of your hands, and wash your hands for a good amount of time, rather than just a couple of seconds - a couple of choruses of happy birthday ought to do it.

I don't have a source handy for that last claim, but you can probably verify it with a bit of searching.

[Razgriz]

A lot of people seem to be jumping to the conclusion that Hanners is cured when she never said anything of the sort. Having a breakthrough is not the same as being cured, it's a step, sometimes a significant step, but still just a step. Coping strategies are not cures, they are methods for making your condition more manageable.

Hanners is straight up saying she isn't grossed out by anything anymore. If that isn't a cure I don't know what is. And if he doesn't want to claim this cure is universal, maybe don't portray it as deep wisdom that applies to life itself.

Also real nice to see that you're all supportive of all kinds of causes, so long as they don't conflict with the golden rule that Jeph is above criticism and can do no wrong. OCD can be cured by shoveling shit. The Lord has spoken. Tell your friends it's their fault they have problems.

[Tova]

Hanners is straight up saying she isn't grossed out by anything anymore.

She did not straight up say that.

[SmilingCat]

Hanners is straight up saying she isn't grossed out by anything anymore. If that isn't a cure I don't know what is. And if he doesn't want to claim this cure is universal, maybe don't portray it as deep wisdom that applies to life itself.

Also real nice to see that you're all supportive of all kinds of causes, so long as they don't conflict with the golden rule that Jeph is above criticism and can do no wrong. OCD can be cured by shoveling shit. The Lord has spoken. Tell your friends it's their fault they have problems.

You're reading an awful lot into one comic to support a conclusion for you to get angry over. It's worth noting that Hannelore had already made a ton of progress before this point. She'd already been getting accustomed to hugging (ask Marten and her father). Working at the coffee shop got her accustomed to feeling dirty and grimy, to the point that she almost decided not to shower after work, an idea that was so alien to her she had a panic attack over it.

Old Hanners wouldn't have travelled the world, met all new interesting people, done all new interesting thing, and certainly wouldn't have made it through a day of shoveling yak shit, much less a week of it. This isn't "Hanners shovels yak shit for a week and suddenly she's cured." This is "Hanners was already doing well enough to shovel yak shit for a week and suddenly she starts realizing and processing that she's getting better."

Sometimes it works like that. Sometimes you don't even realize all that work you've put into getting better was actually slowly working until a furry cow is staring you in the face wanting to know if his stall is clean yet.

(personal experiences may vary)

[Is it cold in here?]

Global Moderator Comment

Folks fighting mental illness, you are among friends here. There are people on the moderator team who know first-hand what you face, and many more among the regulars.

[Y]

Hanners shovels yak shit for a week

I already thought it was weird that latrines needed shoveling, but that's because I only know latrines from history class, the thing the romans use for instance. I thought animals just shit all over the place. If it's manure then it's suddenly way less gross than if it was poop.

[shanejayell]

New comic!

Nice to see they saved Hanner's job for her.

[Mr Intrepid]

New comic!

Nice to see they saved Hanner's job for her.

That was Dora's close to a promise when she left.  She gets to reintroduce herself to Mr Burny.

[Penquin47]

So... is Dora no longer a fucked-up twenty-something?  Has it been three in-comic years since Faye was teasing Dora about being Mrs. Robinson at the ripe old age of 27?

[OldGoat]

I already thought it was weird that latrines needed shoveling, but that's because I only know latrines from history class, the thing the romans use for instance. I thought animals just shit all over the place. If it's manure then it's suddenly way less gross than if it was poop.

It is true, herbivore dung is 'way less icky than omnivore or carnivore shit - some equestrians think horse apples smell good.  Once they dry out cowflops are actually pretty inoffensive.  Suburban kid that I am, I can't really tell the difference between common dairy cow dung and buffalo (American bison) dung, and I suspect the same is true of yak poo.  I know Native Americans and white settlers alike on the Great Plains used sun dried dung as heating and cooking fuel - not much firewood to be had out there and what little there is is of poor quality.

I suspect the same is true of the steppes of Mongolia or wherever Hanners was yak herding.   Left to their own devices, the critters will wander around and spread the stuff out by randomly plopping wherever the mood strikes them, but if they're corralled it piles up and needs to be dealt with.

[SpanielBear]

As they are, we once were.

As we are, so they will become.

Poor bastards.

[brasca]

New comic!

Nice to see they saved Hanner's job for her.

Apparently she still wants it for therapeutic purposes. 

[Shjade]

A lot of people seem to be jumping to the conclusion that Hanners is cured when she never said anything of the sort. Having a breakthrough is not the same as being cured, it's a step, sometimes a significant step, but still just a step. Coping strategies are not cures, they are methods for making your condition more manageable.

A lot of people are jumping in general, as often seems to be the case whenever some Major Development happens in the comic and has not yet had time to breathe, so the usual reminder:

It's been three strips, people. Give the story beat some time to develop before going straight to 100 on it. For all we know she's gonna check out the basement next and discover that, while maybe she has gained a new perspective on poop, it turns out spiders are still spiders and aaaaaAAAAAAA.

We don't know anything about what kind of state Hanners is in right now aside from "can proactively hug Dora" and "thinks she's made a major breakthrough on her personal hangups."

Give it a minute.

[hedgie]

Physical contact gets so much easier when one initiates it themselves.

[DarthSox]

It's been a long time since I commented here (I occasionally lurk when something controversial is happening in the comic), but I wanted to ask something random:

Is this the first time we've ever heard Hannelore say the F-word? I remember she told Faye one time to "get her shit together", and made a mental note that I didn't think she had ever sworn before or since.

[BenRG]

I wonder if Hannelore has considered the possibility that time in their universe is somehow going at a tiny fraction of its apparent rate (you know, as they were in a daily comic strip or something)? That would explain why it is taking everyone so long to get out of their twenties!

I so love Hannelore's reason for coming back. It's easy to forget how much she loves her friends and the degree to which they're core to her happiness, stability and life! Just all the'catching up' strips are going to be a treat to read! I wonder how long Jeph can sustain a running joke about Hanners making some reference to her travels that means something completely different out of context?

[anahata]

Is this the first time we've ever heard Hannelore say the F-word?

It could be,  but it doesn't surprise me. Travel broadens the mind, and after all the people she's met and worked with I'd expect her to be less squeamish about language than she might have been before, just as she is about yak poo.
Anyway it's easy to say when she's only quoting back what Dora has just said.

[Signal Firefly]

I kinda want to chime in here with my own personal experience. First, let me say I am very well aware this is not remotely comparable to OCD. And I'm not saying this is the case for Hannelore; I agree with people saying this is a breakthrough, not a cure. But...

For most of my life, I had a serious nail-biting problem. Like, constantly, they were always bitten down to the quick, my fingers hurt all the time. Awful. Tried for years to quit. Then about...seven years ago?... I told myself one day, you are in control of your body. It does not control you. You are stronger than this. And...it worked. I've had a few setbacks, and I still bite the skin around my nails sometimes, but for the most part I haven't bitten my nails since. I don't know how it worked, I know it wouldn't work for most people, and people aren't weak or "not trying hard enough" because they can't just will themselves better. And like I said, nail biting is not OCD. But I can believe that, once in a while, someone CAN muscle their way through their issues through sheer will power alone.

[Wingy]

Not to change the subject from mental illness, but can anyone read the board behind Hanners?  Advice is 2, Good advice is 69 (snrk!), and above that is a scribble I can't read and "no" as the price.  What doth the scribble sayest???

[Tova]

Affogato.

[Oenone]

It’s also possible Hannelore thinks she’s “better” because she’s been practicing her self care skills in a context wildly divorced from her daily life. It might be that when she’s presented her old triggers she struggles more. We might see a return of JUICY or her mom, both of which would test her.

[rtmq0227]

We might see a return of JUICY or her mom, both of which would test her.

Or it's revealed that her mom facilitated her adventures somehow/had someone watching over her and she has to juggle the righteous fury at her mother for interfering after being cut off against her insecurities and self-doubt creeping in ("How much of my success in this journey was my own?").

I agree that her mom doesn't seem to be the type to handle someone (even family) standing up to her well or just let it go.  I can see her skirting the exact terms Hanners set in their confrontation and things coming to a head.  That said, it would be interesting to see her mother's perspective on their relationship change.  We've always seen her treat motherhood as some kind of obligation or liability, but Hanners has demonstrated that she can take on her mother's aspect as much as her father's or her own.  This might have been the first time her mother has truly seen herself in her daughter and I'd love to see the aftermath of that.

She's still an asshole for using her daughter as a tool for corporate negotiation (I just want to be clear).

[OldGoat]

It’s also possible Hannelore thinks she’s “better” because she’s been practicing her self care skills in a context wildly divorced from her daily life. It might be that when she’s presented her old triggers she struggles more. We might see a return of JUICY or her mom, both of which would test her.

Oenone, please correct me if I'm reading it wrong, but the way you cast that first sentence using quotation marks makes it sound to me like you believe Hanners is deluded in her belief that her condition has improved. 

I would argue that if she feels better and is finding it less challenging to negotiate the world around her, she IS better.  If it takes a JUICY or Beatrice level trigger to disrupt her day now, that's still a major improvement.  Her threshold used to be much lower.

[hedgie]

I suspect that the quotes were because of all the stuff up-thread, and not dismissive of Hanners' progress.

[Zebediah]

Hannelore is better. She is not “better” in the sense that she is “cured” or “fixed”, and she likely never will be. But she is better in that she is more functional and balanced than she was before.

[hedgie]

Well, there isn't much meat for curing, and I don't know what her opinion of being fixed would be.

[Penquin47]

I suspect she'd appreciate being fixed.  No bloody mess to clean up for a few days every month.  And really, I cannot see her handling pregnancy or birth well, or babies/small children and the mess and germs that go along with them.  If she does want to be a mother, I can see her adopting an older child to avoid having to deal with diapers.

[DashaBlade]

Comic's up!

So, one person's breakthrough is another person's insides full of scorpions, I guess.

[Case]

Winslow, you can't be poisoned by snakes or scorpions, you big baby.

[OldGoat]

I finally cast my vote for Roko's pet.  Specifically, a budgie, one with an extensive vocabulary of vile language, delivered in several accents, including South Boston.  Perhaps to include, "My name is Andy Jackson* and I'm a dirty son-of-a-bitch!"



*Andrew Jackson, the 7th president of the United States, is a controversial figure.  Among his claims to (in)fame are his short fuse and spectacular bursts of anger.  His beloved pet parrot seemed to have picked up certain language from his owner. 

Contemporary accounts suggest that the parrot, agitated by the crowds attending Jackson’s funeral at his home in 1845, launched into a profane tirade while surrounded by mourners.  Later, funeral attendee Rev. William Menefee Norment wrote, “Before the sermon and while the crowd was gathering, a wicked parrot that was a household pet, got excited and commenced swearing so loud and long as to disturb the people and had to be carried from the house.”

[St.Clair]

Winslow, you can't be poisoned by snakes or scorpions, you big baby.

If he's like Atomic Robo, then the issue isn't of being poisoned, but simply having bugs inside him, potentially getting their squishy crunchy bug guts into his workings/components.

[Gyrre]

So Winslow has his 'Certified City Slicker' card.  To be fair, the scorpions could have caused some problems.

I wonder if being kicked by a yak is worse than being kicked by a horse? I haven't been kicked by either.


EDIT: I'm no country boy, but I've got the good sense not to stand behind a large ungulate.
EDIT 2: typo fix

[shanejayell]

Poor Winslow.

I've been kicked by a goat. Hurt.

[hedgie]

EDIT: I'm no country boy, but I've got the good sense not to stand behind a large ungulate.

I stay well away from any creature that a nose damaged by decades of smoking can detect from more than 6" away.

[cesium133]

Winslow really needs to meet Melon and find out about her job. 

[OldGoat]

Poor Winslow.

I've been kicked by a goat. Hurt.

I didn't mean to.

[Tova]

It's in your nature?

[BenRG]

Now that's not fair, Winslow! Has it occurred to you that maybe the scorpions just wanted to be friends? Unfortunately, it is the curse of order scorpiones that people rarely want to be friends with you! (Full Disclosure: The Emperor Scorpion was my favourite childhood creepy-crawlie!)

My gut feeling is that Momo is going to counter by telling Winslow all about her problems. This may lead to consequences in the mid-term, which may be cute in an 'uncanny valley' sort of way.

Meanwhile, how long do you think that Hanners and Mar-bear will be hugging tearfully and squeeing happily? They are best friends, after all!

[brasca]

Winslow, you can't be poisoned by snakes or scorpions, you big baby.

I agree about the snakes, but the scorpions crawled inside him and that could do some internal damage although I'm not entirely sure how.  I know certain models have working mouths, but I didn't think they had throats that went anywhere. 

Of course Winslow may have the same inexplicable fear of creepy crawlers that Roko has of damaged AIs.  It's just a part of his personality. 

[hedgie]

I either swat or flick harmless creepy-crawlies because the sensation can be maddening.  To even think of them crawling inside is some straight-up Cronenberg shit for me.

[Tova]

It's probably a phobia, unrelated to how much damage they can do.

[Shjade]

Regarding theories on Hanners' mom's involvement: personally I very much doubt it. I don't get the impression her mom is the type to enjoy humble pie, but Hannelore damn near blew her off her feet in that storm. I think her mom is plenty smart enough to let that blow itself out before even considering meddling in her daughter's life again, lest she compound the issue regardless of her intentions.

[Mr Intrepid]

Hanner's dad is super-wealthy in his own right.  I don't think Hanner's mom can really hold anything over her head to get her to play ball with her.  If they reconcile, it'll be on Hanner's terms, not her mom's.

And Winslow will be fine.  Could he have "picked up" OCD from Hanners?  Through constant association he might have started to mimic Hanner's mannerisms.  To be a more....sympatico.(?) companion to her?