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Author Topic: Cybrid-human offspring?  (Read 3307 times)

N.N. Marf

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Cybrid-human offspring?
« on: 03 Oct 2020, 20:02 »

``I have spoken to Dr. Ellicott on this matter; he offered sage advice, and to study our offspring.''
Oof ``Did you ask him whether normal kicks hurt so much?''

``Top Secret!''

FWIW, given the Singularity and the number of robot-human relationships in the comic (both actual and potential), Jeph will probably eventually address the first cross-species child at some point, even if only with the characters discussing an announcement in the news.
Cybrids being intellectual creatures, how would it even work? It's not like they have compatible genetic material---there'd have to be something interesting indeed.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #1 on: 03 Oct 2020, 22:43 »

It's a tall order any way I can think of.

One option would be to create a genome reflecting the traits of the AI and wrap a germ cell around it, then do standard IVF.

Another would be to upload a human to the AI creche and merge the patterns of the human engrams and a nascent AI.

Either way involves technology we have seen no hint of in QC.

I think Bubbles and Faye will adopt.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #2 on: 03 Oct 2020, 22:57 »

I think Bubbles and Faye will adopt.

Not every couple wants a kid. Hell, they could just do what most long term queer lady couples I know do: get a bunch of dogs.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #3 on: 04 Oct 2020, 02:11 »

It's what my ex and her now husband did as well.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #4 on: 04 Oct 2020, 04:39 »

``I have spoken to Dr. Ellicott on this matter; he offered sage advice, and to study our offspring.''
Oof ``Did you ask him whether normal kicks hurt so much?''

``Top Secret!''

FWIW, given the Singularity and the number of robot-human relationships in the comic (both actual and potential), Jeph will probably eventually address the first cross-species child at some point, even if only with the characters discussing an announcement in the news.

Cybrids being intellectual creatures, how would it even work? It's not like they have compatible genetic material---there'd have to be something interesting indeed.

I was more thinking of the first adoption by a human-synthetic couple.

However, I am sure that Dr John is working on the technology and I could see a possible child whose consciousness was created like an AI's and encoded into the growing fetus's brain in some manner. Maybe also with other synthetic features like an electronically-augmented nervous system.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #5 on: 04 Oct 2020, 09:12 »

...Cylons?
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #6 on: 04 Oct 2020, 09:21 »


Yes, please?
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #7 on: 04 Oct 2020, 10:44 »

...Cylons?

In essence, yes. The nBSG Cylon infiltrators are a very good idea of what a true biological/synthetic hybrid would be like.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #8 on: 04 Oct 2020, 11:07 »

And the two species eventually go on to crossbreed and become genetically blended into a single species.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #9 on: 04 Oct 2020, 11:45 »

I mean it’s been what? Two decades without even pregnancy scare? I don’t think babies are a plot line QC wants to go into.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #10 on: 04 Oct 2020, 11:49 »

I mean it’s been what? Two decades without even pregnancy scare? I don’t think babies are a plot line QC wants to go into.
I dunno, I can see a future plot line with May telling Sven she’s late and him panicking… she’d find that hilarious, though I’m not sure anyone else would.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #11 on: 04 Oct 2020, 12:07 »

Pregnancy scares are a boring, tired trope and I am frankly glad Jeph has never gone there.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #12 on: 04 Oct 2020, 13:08 »

I mean it’s been what? Two decades without even pregnancy scare? I don’t think babies are a plot line QC wants to go into.


Well, there was that one time where Hannelore thought she might've gotten impregnated in some weird way. That falls outside of the regular 'pregnancy scare' trope though.
« Last Edit: 04 Oct 2020, 15:05 by Farideh »
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hedgie

Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #13 on: 04 Oct 2020, 14:51 »

Yes, please?

Seconded.  I'd betray humanity for her.
« Last Edit: 04 Oct 2020, 19:41 by hedgie »
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #14 on: 04 Oct 2020, 16:11 »

Nanites.

How have none of you mentioned nanites? They can even be created using organic materials. Not to mention the crazy amount of data storage and programming potential DNA has. A cybrid would ike combine the three. If the resulting offspring were to have more metal in their technorganic composition, it'd likely come from their diet as they developed.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #15 on: 05 Oct 2020, 04:50 »

You mean they could have a nanomachines son?
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #16 on: 05 Oct 2020, 07:32 »

Yes, please?

Seconded.  I'd betray humanity for her.
Meh.
(Show me a Cylon who looks like Julri Waters or Athena Massey and I might consider it.)
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #17 on: 05 Oct 2020, 08:30 »

To be fair, it wouldn't take much for me to betray humanity. Pretty much any woman could get me to do it.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #18 on: 05 Oct 2020, 10:20 »

You mean they could have a nanomachines son?
Nanomechanismal enhancing mind, body (wondering what's such psyche) always thought wooful. How's Newfriend ported Azuma to in Bubbles? Reversile?---more Azuma-hobby govsecret-ingeniery?
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #19 on: 05 Oct 2020, 10:41 »

I'm afraid I don't really understand. I was just riffing on Senator Armstrong and Gyrre's suggestion of nanite offspring.

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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #20 on: 06 Oct 2020, 03:19 »

You mean they could have a nanomachines son?
I suspect a daughter would be easier based on some vertebrate forms of parthenogenesis, but yes.

Use one of Faye's eggs, encode synthetic DNA based on Bubble's body plan and create self-replicating nanobot gametes[1], and pick which mom carries the kid. If Faye carries the kid, any extra-human amounts of metals and hydrocarbons will need to be feed to the kid once their born. Injecting them via an implant in the umbilical cord is possible, but could pose additional health risks to Faye beyond those tbat normally come with pregnancy. If Bubbles carries the kid, they'd still use one of Faye's eggs but it comes with additional complications. Namely, an artificial womb and umbilical cord would need to be developed before that could happen. Then, there's the decision of whether saird womb would be implanted within or attacted externally to Bubbles or if it would remain separate.[2] Whichever option she chooses, all of the requisite nutrients and resources can be fed directly to the developing embryo throughout the pregnancy.[3] However, the biggest complication here is how Bubbles' synthetic gametes will interact with Faye's egg.

There are only two recorded instances of mammalian parthenogenesis and both come from religious texts (Yeshua of Nazareth and the Atten). So we're probably going to need to take some inspiration from lizards and snakes, Bubbles gametes would act like large sperm, or they'd function as something between sperm and egg. Personally, I have no idea how Jeph would feel about any of those three options. If it were me, I'd go with the recombinate lizard parthenogenesis model since it's easiest to explain.

[1] This is the first hurdle and main confounding factor.
[2]I imagine this choice would vary from A.I. to A.I.
[3] Which is the biggest benefit of this option.
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N.N. Marf

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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #21 on: 06 Oct 2020, 12:00 »

I'm afraid I don't really understand. I was just riffing on Senator Armstrong and Gyrre's suggestion of nanite offspring.
I think it was that it's cliche.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #22 on: 06 Oct 2020, 20:58 »

I'm afraid I don't really understand. I was just riffing on Senator Armstrong and Gyrre's suggestion of nanite offspring.
I think it was that it's cliche.
(click to show/hide)

Oh goddammit. I wasn't referring to that tinfoil idiocy.
[Fun fact: that's one of the easiest metrics by which to tell if someone is a conspiracy theorist or a conspiracy nut. Nuts believe in lizard people and or 'snersons'.]
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #23 on: 07 Oct 2020, 06:26 »

Cybrid? Isn't that a word from Dan Simmons's Hyperion saga? Brawne Lamia actually had a child with a cybrid, if I remember correctly...
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #24 on: 07 Oct 2020, 20:49 »

Cybrid? Isn't that a word from Dan Simmons's Hyperion saga? Brawne Lamia actually had a child with a cybrid, if I remember correctly...

Good question.

The kid would probably be classified as some form of cyborg, though.
[Fun fact: We've actually made brain-in-a-jar cybrogs using rats. They're called 'hybrots'.]
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hedgie

Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #25 on: 08 Oct 2020, 08:43 »

To be fair, it wouldn't take much for me to betray humanity. Pretty much any woman could get me to do it.

In my case, I'm misanthropic enough, that I'd do it for a house plant, just because they're better company than most people.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #26 on: 08 Oct 2020, 10:16 »

Fair enough, but if you can wipe out humanity and also get a hot robot gf, might as well go for the whole kit and kaboodle.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #27 on: 08 Oct 2020, 10:42 »

my case, I'm misanthropic enough, that I'd do it for a house plant, just because they're better company than most people.

I have to remind myself that most news reports are skewed towards "bleeds leads", but there still are too many idiots out there.  Just because it may be humanoid does not mean it is human.  Two out of three RPSLS to see who gets to push the button that removes Homo Sapiens? 
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hedgie

Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #28 on: 08 Oct 2020, 13:34 »

Fair enough, but if you can wipe out humanity and also get a hot robot gf, might as well go for the whole kit and kaboodle.

Absolutely.  But if all I can get is the plant, *and* to be rid of most people, I'll take what I can get.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #29 on: 09 Oct 2020, 09:45 »

my case, I'm misanthropic enough, that I'd do it for a house plant, just because they're better company than most people.

I have to remind myself that most news reports are skewed towards "bleeds leads", but there still are too many idiots out there.  Just because it may be humanoid does not mean it is human. 

My misanthropy is derived entirely from first hand experience, which has been ample. No supplemental data via the news is required.

My misanthropy is also tempered by my love of/fascination with women and my extroversive deep-seated need for human contact lest I be left alone with only my thoughts, which are of such a nature as I would wish on no one, even those who gave rise to said misanthropy.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #30 on: 09 Oct 2020, 19:56 »

my case, I'm misanthropic enough, that I'd do it for a house plant, just because they're better company than most people.

I have to remind myself that most news reports are skewed towards "bleeds leads", but there still are too many idiots out there.  Just because it may be humanoid does not mean it is human. 

My misanthropy is derived entirely from first hand experience, which has been ample. No supplemental data via the news is required.

My misanthropy is also tempered by my love of/fascination with women and my extroversive deep-seated need for human contact lest I be left alone with only my thoughts, which are of such a nature as I would wish on no one, even those who gave rise to said misanthropy.

IDK, some of my sources of misanthropy could rather desperately use the change of perspective to help them change.
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hedgie

Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #31 on: 09 Oct 2020, 20:07 »

Total Perspective Vortex, perhaps?
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #32 on: 10 Oct 2020, 21:28 »

Total Perspective Vortex, perhaps?

'This is the pain and suffering you are causing others through your stupidity, ignorance, laziness, and refusal to think beyond yourself.'
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hedgie

Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #33 on: 10 Oct 2020, 21:47 »

More like, "This is your significance to the cosmos".
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #34 on: 11 Oct 2020, 04:34 »

More like, "This is your significance to the cosmos".
Yeah, that could work, too.

But, would it be like Dr. Manhattan's epiphany at the end of Watchmen, or would it be specks of dirt?
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #35 on: 15 Oct 2020, 06:06 »

I'm a bit late to the conversation but find the mention of extra metals amusing yet annoying every time it is mentioned where it seems that everyone assumes these is no metal in a human to begin with. So how many have forgotten basic biochemistry or even had any in high-school?
There is also the assumption that cybernetic entities are mostly metal when most in existence in our reality are constructed from polymers and some ceramics and metals.
The cores are of course silicon, with the more advanced examples using  Field-Programmable-Gate-Arrays gluing together their multiple processor cores.

An except from a medical journal
Among the metals that are currently known to be essential for normal biological functions in humans are sodium (Na), potassium (K), magnesium (Mg), and calcium (Ca) that belong to main group of elements, and vanadium (V), chromium (Cr), manganese (Mn), iron (Fe), cobalt (Co), nickel (Ni), copper (Cu), zinc (Zn), molybdenum (Mo), and cadmium (Cd) that belong to transition metal group of elements in periodic table. Among these metals, the most notable that usually exist in the form of ions, are Fe, Co, Ni, Ca, Cu, Zn, and Cr. The deficiency of Fe and Co leads to anemia, that of Cu leads to brain and heart diseases and anemia, that of Zn leads to growth retardation and skin changes, that of Ca leads to bone deterioration, and that of Cr reduces the glucose tolerance.

Make note about Calcium is the main constituent of the bones making up a skeleton.
For some reason people forget that this element is a metal. Most likely because it is encountered as a mineral when combined with carbonates in bones, limestone or water scale.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #36 on: 15 Oct 2020, 20:58 »

I'm a bit late to the conversation but find the mention of extra metals amusing yet annoying every time it is mentioned where it seems that everyone assumes these is no metal in a human to begin with. So how many have forgotten basic biochemistry or even had any in high-school?
There is also the assumption that cybernetic entities are mostly metal when most in existence in our reality are constructed from polymers and some ceramics and metals.
The cores are of course silicon, with the more advanced examples using  Field-Programmable-Gate-Arrays gluing together their multiple processor cores.

An except from a medical journal
Among the metals that are currently known to be essential for normal biological functions in humans are sodium (Na), potassium (K), magnesium (Mg), and calcium (Ca) that belong to main group of elements, and vanadium (V), chromium (Cr), manganese (Mn), iron (Fe), cobalt (Co), nickel (Ni), copper (Cu), zinc (Zn), molybdenum (Mo), and cadmium (Cd) that belong to transition metal group of elements in periodic table. Among these metals, the most notable that usually exist in the form of ions, are Fe, Co, Ni, Ca, Cu, Zn, and Cr. The deficiency of Fe and Co leads to anemia, that of Cu leads to brain and heart diseases and anemia, that of Zn leads to growth retardation and skin changes, that of Ca leads to bone deterioration, and that of Cr reduces the glucose tolerance.

Make note about Calcium is the main constituent of the bones making up a skeleton.
For some reason people forget that this element is a metal. Most likely because it is encountered as a mineral when combined with carbonates in bones, limestone or water scale.

I'm well aware us humans have trace amounts of several metals. I'm approaching the metallic components of such a hybrid from a let's-avoiding-causing-the-human-mother-metal-toxicity standpoint.  Too much of those same metals cause damage to the standard 4 vital organs (heart, lungs, liver, kidneys), along with blindness, metallic deposits in various places, and death.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #37 on: 16 Oct 2020, 07:28 »

Just a rough note on data I found online - more up to date numbers may vary - A healthy mammals calcium content is on the order of 1% to 1,5% of total body mass.
A little rough ... okay very rough .... calculation based on an average grown human being 62kg would give us a minimum trace amount of 620g of the metal.

The flip side is that if nanobot-machienes are involved in the development/assembly of the child then those machines would be capable of transporting the more problematic rare elements without endangering the mother or child in the process. My supposition would be a carbon matrix to isolate the individual atoms in the carbon lattice equivalent of an egg carton.
/geekout
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #38 on: 18 Oct 2020, 05:04 »

Just a rough note on data I found online - more up to date numbers may vary - A healthy mammals calcium content is on the order of 1% to 1,5% of total body mass.
A little rough ... okay very rough .... calculation based on an average grown human being 62kg would give us a minimum trace amount of 620g of the metal.

The flip side is that if nanobot-machienes are involved in the development/assembly of the child then those machines would be capable of transporting the more problematic rare elements without endangering the mother or child in the process. My supposition would be a carbon matrix to isolate the individual atoms in the carbon lattice equivalent of an egg carton.
/geekout
Honestly hadn't thought of thar. That's a damn good idea!
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #39 on: 18 Dec 2020, 03:30 »

I mean it’s been what? Two decades without even pregnancy scare? I don’t think babies are a plot line QC wants to go into.

None of the main characters could even have a scare unless you consider Dale and Marigold main characters—or Rene or Sven. The most that could happen to make any of our current main character parents would be if someone had to emergency adopt/foster a child relative due to the death of a parent or a CPS call. That would definitely be a twist (more interesting than accidental pregnancy—IMO), but I don’t see that happening either.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #40 on: 18 Dec 2020, 05:08 »

Why couldn't a cyborg be a machine internally with a living skin on the outside?  It would require two kinds of ingestion and probably some esoteric engineering to support the blood stream the skin needs, but the only new technology required would be the ability to code the skin so it grows the right colors, shapes, and textures.  Things like nipples, ears, etc. as it grows over the framework.  Such a skin would make URs life more difficult as they'd have to take blood-borne pathogen precautions to work on such a creatures mechanical bits, but they need to put up a private work area anyway.  Can you imagine May in such a chassis?
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BenRG

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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #41 on: 18 Dec 2020, 05:32 »

A true cyborg is a biological life-form that has synthetic parts that mimic, augment or replace biological parts (as in The Six-Million Dollar Man or the Deus Ex franchise).

What you're describing is a kind of android. True androids are usually synthetically-grown pseudo-biological entities or a mechanical appliance that closely resembles or mimics the function of a human.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #42 on: 18 Dec 2020, 09:11 »

A true cyborg is a biological life-form that has synthetic parts that mimic, augment or replace biological parts (as in The Six-Million Dollar Man or the Deus Ex franchise).

Does Clinton count?
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #43 on: 18 Dec 2020, 09:21 »

A true cyborg is a biological life-form that has synthetic parts that mimic, augment or replace biological parts (as in The Six-Million Dollar Man or the Deus Ex franchise).

Does Clinton count?

Here you raise an interesting point: What is the difference between a cyborg implant and a prosthesis? I don't know if there is a widely-accepted definition but, in my view, a true cybernetic appliance is one that is directly wired into the user's nervous system enabling it to be controlled by and sensory data fed directly back into their brain. Clinton's robo-hand does seem to meet those criteria. So, unless you want to add another criterion such as 'percentage of body volume replaced', the answer seems to be 'yes'.
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Zebediah

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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #44 on: 18 Dec 2020, 09:27 »

Clinton certainly self-identifies as a cyborg.
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #45 on: 18 Dec 2020, 20:49 »

Why couldn't a cyborg be a machine internally with a living skin on the outside?  It would require two kinds of ingestion and probably some esoteric engineering to support the blood stream the skin needs, but the only new technology required would be the ability to code the skin so it grows the right colors, shapes, and textures.  Things like nipples, ears, etc. as it grows over the framework.  Such a skin would make URs life more difficult as they'd have to take blood-borne pathogen precautions to work on such a creatures mechanical bits, but they need to put up a private work area anyway.  Can you imagine May in such a chassis?

Wasn’t that what Terminators were? Perhaps the movie series left a stigma against that. You’d think it could work out ethically as a universe that has AI with person rights and invisible emus would have advanced further in cloning body parts beyond where we are (excitedly awaits for cloned meat to become an accessible thing).
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #46 on: 18 Dec 2020, 21:31 »

A true cyborg is a biological life-form that has synthetic parts that mimic, augment or replace biological parts (as in The Six-Million Dollar Man or the Deus Ex franchise).

Does Clinton count?

Here you raise an interesting point: What is the difference between a cyborg implant and a prosthesis? I don't know if there is a widely-accepted definition but, in my view, a true cybernetic appliance is one that is directly wired into the user's nervous system enabling it to be controlled by and sensory data fed directly back into their brain. Clinton's robo-hand does seem to meet those criteria. So, unless you want to add another criterion such as 'percentage of body volume replaced', the answer seems to be 'yes'.

There are those that consider humans with glasses/contacts to be cyborgs.

I can't seem to find the speech with a cursory search, but theirs a transhumanist's quote about humans becoming cyborgs upon the first sharpened stick being picked up.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure it was Aaron Diaz in a twitter post prior to her nervous breakdown while writing Dark Science? But I'm not 100%.
[BTW, she seems to be doing better mentally now and is trying to get the comic back on track now that she's figured out she is a she.]
« Last Edit: 18 Dec 2020, 21:41 by Gyrre »
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #47 on: 19 Dec 2020, 11:44 »

I duckduckgoed the word "cybrid" and the two seemingly relevant results were https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytoplasmic_hybrid and https://hyperioncantos.fandom.com/wiki/Cybrid

I've read Hyperion, but decades ago and I don't remember much about Cybrids.

EDIT: were they the ones living on spaceships in interstellar space trying to avoid the AIs that were secretly controlling the teleportation network?
« Last Edit: 19 Dec 2020, 11:51 by zmeiat_joro »
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #48 on: 19 Dec 2020, 20:09 »

A true cyborg is a biological life-form that has synthetic parts that mimic, augment or replace biological parts (as in The Six-Million Dollar Man or the Deus Ex franchise).

Does Clinton count?

Here you raise an interesting point: What is the difference between a cyborg implant and a prosthesis? I don't know if there is a widely-accepted definition but, in my view, a true cybernetic appliance is one that is directly wired into the user's nervous system enabling it to be controlled by and sensory data fed directly back into their brain. Clinton's robo-hand does seem to meet those criteria. So, unless you want to add another criterion such as 'percentage of body volume replaced', the answer seems to be 'yes'.

There are those that consider humans with glasses/contacts to be cyborgs.

I can't seem to find the speech with a cursory search, but theirs a transhumanist's quote about humans becoming cyborgs upon the first sharpened stick being picked up.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure it was Aaron Diaz in a twitter post prior to her nervous breakdown while writing Dark Science? But I'm not 100%.
[BTW, she seems to be doing better mentally now and is trying to get the comic back on track now that she's figured out she is a she.]

Huh.  First I'd heard of it, but I'm not really surprised, given their choice of protag and general attitude toward human/biological bodies (messy kludge-y things, best discarded and replaced with something more intelligently designed)...
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Re: Cybrid-human offspring?
« Reply #49 on: 02 Jan 2021, 15:29 »

So... What is a Cybrid and from what franchise is it from?
« Last Edit: 02 Jan 2021, 18:38 by zmeiat_joro »
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