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Block 32 to level 11. Do you.....?

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Author Topic: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)  (Read 3879 times)

hedgie

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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #100 on: 19 Oct 2019, 10:04 »

Those who did not understand are instructed to google for Correct horse battery staple.

I just want to know how Jeph figured out my root password.
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #101 on: 19 Oct 2019, 14:54 »

" ... to the extent that a machine can be happy, I was happy ... "

I find that curiously satisfying.

( and now i wonder about the happiness of the machines in my life )
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #102 on: 20 Oct 2019, 07:21 »

Oh I get it, I think. Roko's old machine figment ID was able to communicate with her AI substrate EGO eloquently from years of co-habitation and Roko's core "BIOS" having all the old addresses of the body's functions working together in simple harmony.

The new Philomena model's functions are probably similar but may have different or a refined command language or address order. (insert uber nerd smiley here)

Roko's new machine figment is speaking "words" Roko understands, but are effectively gibberish to the AI substrate "BIOS" and she needs to make friends and have a deep head to heart "BIOS" update with new Roko's body ghost.

Hope its that easy for Roko as it was with Bubbles memory arc using Yay Newfriend's plot advancing powers.



Makes me wonder how individual AI substrates are, and how much they have to negotiate protocols with their physical bodies. What Roko experiences may be something like a protocol (version) mismatch, and the whole dissociation issue is a human manifestation.


Recalling that Jeph is friends with Randall Munroe my first reaction was that Aileron homebrew Labrador laundry chicken is the password that unlocks Roko's access to fix things herself. In other words, something that Yay planted into this dream from the outside.

Those who did not understand are instructed to google for Correct horse battery staple.

Our Sysadmin at work has this actually printed, and put on the whiteboard next to his place. Using this method yields hilarious pieces, we keep being amused with whatever he comes up with.
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #103 on: 20 Oct 2019, 08:21 »

Someone should re-do the Diceware word list with funnier and more memorable words.
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #104 on: 21 Oct 2019, 10:01 »

Oh I get it, I think. Roko's old machine figment ID was able to communicate with her AI substrate EGO eloquently from years of co-habitation and Roko's core "BIOS" having all the old addresses of the body's functions working together in simple harmony.

The new Philomena model's functions are probably similar but may have different or a refined command language or address order. (insert uber nerd smiley here)

Roko's new machine figment is speaking "words" Roko understands, but are effectively gibberish to the AI substrate "BIOS" and she needs to make friends and have a deep head to heart "BIOS" update with new Roko's body ghost.

Hope its that easy for Roko as it was with Bubbles memory arc using Yay Newfriend's plot advancing powers.


Makes me wonder how individual AI substrates are, and how much they have to negotiate protocols with their physical bodies. What Roko experiences may be something like a protocol (version) mismatch, and the whole dissociation issue is a human manifestation.

Roko telegraphed this to us in 4111 panel 1 when she said, "I need to shut down and go to sleep . . . but . . . I don't know the protocols."
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #105 on: 21 Oct 2019, 10:50 »

Some one mentioned this earlier - I think she does know them, but in a panicked state can't recall how to negotiate her way through them.  Indicating a slight difference from the old body's protocols, not enough to be unworkable but not as readily accessible. 

" ... to the extent that a machine can be happy, I was happy ... "

I find that curiously satisfying.

( and now i wonder about the happiness of the machines in my life )

I wonder the same.  I know the car feels my pain when I hear the noises it makes due to my deferred maintenance.  And I really need to put my coffee grinder out of its misery... ever since that bearing went, all it does is complain. 

Loudly. 
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #106 on: 21 Oct 2019, 14:59 »

Der Geist der Maschine.
Well,writing it that way, it technically could mean The Ghost in the Machine, and The Ghost of the Machine - in the sense of both Roko as the "in", and the manifestations of her bodies as the "of".


I'm not spiritual, but somehow I do believe machines have some mind of their own, and it'd probably be the same with QC's chassis - every single one feels slightly different, as capacitors, cables and chips oh so slightly vary in purity of material.
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #107 on: 21 Oct 2019, 17:55 »

Der Geist der Maschine.
Well,writing it that way, it technically could mean The Ghost in the Machine, and The Ghost of the Machine….
It's been decades since I studied German, but I thot "The Ghost in the Machine" would be Der Geist im der Maschine, and "The Ghost of the Machine" would be Der Geist von der Maschine. Am I wrong?
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #108 on: 21 Oct 2019, 22:36 »

Der Geist der Maschine.
Well,writing it that way, it technically could mean The Ghost in the Machine, and The Ghost of the Machine….
It's been decades since I studied German, but I thot "The Ghost in the Machine" would be Der Geist im der Maschine, and "The Ghost of the Machine" would be Der Geist von der Maschine. Am I wrong?


"Der Geist iN der Maschine", but yes, you're right. (either a typo, or a small mistake easily made by non-native speakers)

And IIRC "Der Geist (in) der Maschine" inspired the title for Ghost in the Shell...
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #109 on: 22 Oct 2019, 07:40 »

I remember being taught "im" in Grrman class in 8th grade. Was Frau Bischoffberger wrong?
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #110 on: 22 Oct 2019, 08:07 »

Im is the contracted form of in dem, if I'm not mistaken.

edited to undo autocorrect
« Last Edit: 23 Oct 2019, 09:05 by Cornelius »
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #111 on: 22 Oct 2019, 13:29 »

I'm is the contacted firm of in dem, if I'm not mistaken.

That is correct. Since 'Maschine' is a female noun, it's "in der", not "in dem", that may be the issue here.
German uses (at least according to what I've heard) 'grammatical genders', things like this can be hard, especially for non-native speakers.
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #112 on: 22 Oct 2019, 17:53 »

I'm is the contacted firm of in dem, if I'm not mistaken.

That is correct. Since 'Maschine' is a female noun, it's "in der", not "in dem", that may be the issue here.
German uses (at least according to what I've heard) 'grammatical genders', things like this can be hard, especially for non-native speakers.

now waitaminute, "der" is the article used for masculine nouns, nicht wahr? So if "Maschine" is feminine, then der Maschine sounds incorrect to me; should it not be die Maschine?
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #113 on: 22 Oct 2019, 21:51 »

Der is the article for masculine nouns in the nominative case (subject).  Die is the feminine.

However, this would be dative case (indirect object).  For dative case, the articles are dem (masc and neut) and der (fem).  der Maschine is correct.
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #114 on: 23 Oct 2019, 06:21 »

Der is the article for masculine nouns in the nominative case (subject).  Die is the feminine.

However, this would be dative case (indirect object).  For dative case, the articles are dem (masc and neut) and der (fem).  der Maschine is correct.

This is correct. While it's not that hard to make yourself understood, mastering German is a task a lot of native speakers fail. So don't feel bad for getting this wrong, especially if you haven't used German in a while. Languages fade fast if not used.

A bunch of languages lost cases, or at least most of them. Like Italian and Spanish, although being based on Latin (which had six cases, and three genders [male, female, neutral]), basically ditched cases and lost the neutral gender.

Whoever says English is hard because of the spelling never tried to learn German. Spelling is not that weird, but Grammar is effed up compared to English.
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Case

Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #115 on: 23 Oct 2019, 07:46 »

Der is the article for masculine nouns in the nominative case (subject).  Die is the feminine.

However, this would be dative case (indirect object).  For dative case, the articles are dem (masc and neut) and der (fem).  der Maschine is correct.

This is correct. While it's not that hard to make yourself understood, mastering German is a task a lot of native speakers fail.

'Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod ...' :mrgreen:
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #116 on: 23 Oct 2019, 08:15 »

A bunch of languages lost cases, or at least most of them.

And for most languages that retain them, there's still a tendency for cases to blend together or become vestigial and disappear. Polish technically has 7 cases, but the vocative case is scarcely used in practice (people replace it with nominative) and I imagine it will all but fade from use in my lifetime. At least two of the remaining cases are already sometimes confused for some words by a segment of the population, and the distinction between "mistake" and "language evolution" is always based on how much time has passed since the "mistake" first started happening for native speakers.
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Case

Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #117 on: 23 Oct 2019, 10:42 »

I'm is the contacted firm of in dem, if I'm not mistaken.

That is correct. Since 'Maschine' is a female noun, it's "in der", not "in dem", that may be the issue here.
German uses (at least according to what I've heard) 'grammatical genders', things like this can be hard, especially for non-native speakers.

now waitaminute, "der" is the article used for masculine nouns, nicht wahr? So if "Maschine" is feminine, then der Maschine sounds incorrect to me; should it not be die Maschine?

Don't worry overmuch about the articles - it's pretty much expected that you'll mess them up, and you'll need years of immersion to get the hang of them. In a conversation, Germans will understand you regardless, and it's considered gauche to give a foreigner a hard time because of zeir artikelz.

Written German, otoh, is a different beast, especially in a professional setting. We use much longer-, and more complicated sentences when writing. Also, people are less forgiving about mistakes. I know a Canadian professor who is basically fluent in conversational settings, but his lecture transcripts ... are interesting!


P.S.: About ze Dialektz - No, we don't understand them, either. That's why there's standard German - otherwise there'd be hundreds different little Germanies ... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleinstaaterei and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_German_languages).
« Last Edit: 23 Oct 2019, 11:19 by Case »
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #118 on: 23 Oct 2019, 14:02 »

Written German, otoh, is a different beast, especially in a professional setting. We use much longer-, and more complicated sentences when writing. Also, people are less forgiving about mistakes. I know a Canadian professor who is basically fluent in conversational settings, but his lecture transcripts ... are interesting!


P.S.: About ze Dialektz - No, we don't understand them, either. That's why there's standard German - otherwise there'd be hundreds different little Germanies ... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleinstaaterei and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_German_languages).


Well, German sentences can be really long. Somebody once called German "Lego for words" since you csn string almost any combination into a noun. Likewise, you can string together a life-sized fortress into a single sentence - although that monster won't be easy to follow.


As for the dialects - the closer you get to the mountains (the Alps, especially), the more unintelligible the dialects get. If you thought Austrian dialects were hard, you never heard Swiss - not even us Austrians understand that. Also, the area I live in has a variation called "Stoasteirisch" - it's basically Austrian Redneck.
Worst problem of the Alpine dialects? Where the words are stressed. My favorite example is coffee - Kaffee. In Germany, especially the further north you get, it's pronounced shorter, with emphasis on the first syllable, while in Austria it's pronounced like 'café'. Shifts like that on top of sounding different can throw you off really badly, even as native speakers. That's a reason why French and German people might have difficulties understanding each other English - one has more of a French speech pattern, while the other has a German pattern.
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #119 on: 23 Oct 2019, 14:49 »

I do recall when I took German, one of the students who was struggling the most spoke it as a child in Switzerland.  He frequently confused his dialect with "Hochdeutsch"
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #120 on: 23 Oct 2019, 21:41 »

Yeah, Swiss "Hochdeutsch" still has a thick accent on it, usually. Speaking actual Hochdeutsch usually takes some training, and you might never get rid of some kind of regional "coloring"
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #121 on: 23 Oct 2019, 23:53 »

Written German, otoh, is a different beast, especially in a professional setting. We use much longer-, and more complicated sentences when writing. Also, people are less forgiving about mistakes. I know a Canadian professor who is basically fluent in conversational settings, but his lecture transcripts ... are interesting!


P.S.: About ze Dialektz - No, we don't understand them, either. That's why there's standard German - otherwise there'd be hundreds different little Germanies ... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleinstaaterei and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_German_languages).


Well, German sentences can be really long. Somebody once called German "Lego for words" since you csn string almost any combination into a noun. Likewise, you can string together a life-sized fortress into a single sentence - although that monster won't be easy to follow.
After reading Das Muschelessen by Birgit Vanderbeke I can wholeheartedly agree with you. The average sentence in that book was about a page long, and the longst I found was a bit over four pages IIRC. May have been longer. Certainly felt that way.
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #122 on: 24 Oct 2019, 00:00 »

Whatever German grammar I absorbed in high school is mostly forgotten. I never found the cases difficult (my native Finnish has fifteen case, so ...), but recalling the grammatical genders of nouns was a more serious problem. Particularly their effect on the adjectives, when used as attributes, something that I never became fluent with. And let's not get started on schwache Maskulina  :-D.

Luckily the three foreign languages I was to learn in school (English, Swedish, German)  have so much in common that it became relatively easy to guess the meaning of a previously unknown word. So as a tourist in Germany I never ran into problems with written text. Spoken, hmm. I got by at pubs, restaurants and such, but forget about any professional discussion  :-(.
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Case

Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #123 on: 24 Oct 2019, 05:33 »

Well, German sentences can be really long. Somebody once called German "Lego for words" since you csn string almost any combination into a noun. Likewise, you can string together a life-sized fortress into a single sentence - although that monster won't be easy to follow.
After reading Das Muschelessen by Birgit Vanderbeke I can wholeheartedly agree with you. The average sentence in that book was about a page long, and the longst I found was a bit over four pages IIRC. May have been longer. Certainly felt that way.

My German teacher in 5th grade drilled us to go sparingly with the nested subclauses. I'd regularly get back essays with the annotation "Keine Bandwurmsätze!" ('No tapeworm-sentences!') all over the page. German grammar is complicated compared to the English one, true, but if you get the hang of it, it also allows you 'write on your feet' more readily.

I have to plan my English sentences more - frequently dividing what I'd planned into shorter ones, for example - and the rigid SVO word-order often feels ... constraining.

Whatever German grammar I absorbed in high school is mostly forgotten. I never found the cases difficult (my native Finnish has fifteen case, so ...), but recalling the grammatical genders of nouns was a more serious problem. Particularly their effect on the adjectives, when used as attributes, something that I never became fluent with. And let's not get started on schwache Maskulina  :-D.

Let's not.

:Furtively Googles 'schwache Maskulina':
« Last Edit: 24 Oct 2019, 05:56 by Case »
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #124 on: 24 Oct 2019, 07:18 »

I have to plan my English sentences more - frequently dividing what I'd planned into shorter ones, for example - and the rigid SVO word-order often feels ... constraining.

Every so often I have to rephrase and chop my single German sentence into two or three English ones. It's incredibly annoying being used to using what feels like ultra-long sentences hardly anyone else would use.
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #125 on: 24 Oct 2019, 07:35 »

Every so often I have to rephrase and chop my single German sentence into two or three English ones. It's incredibly annoying being used to using what feels like ultra-long sentences hardly anyone else would use.
If only that were the case in a majority of correspondence I get from people I have to deal with at work, be they vendors or clients.
Short simple sentences are preferred for clarity, especially when talking about anything technical.
Sadly I have to deal with run-on sentences that do not contain a single coherent thought within their spaghetti of text.
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #126 on: 24 Oct 2019, 12:15 »

I have just enough old math and programming that I tend to use a lot of parentheses.  I try to avoid 3rd levels of nesting : }
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Re: WCDT 4111-4115 (October 14th-18th, 2019)
« Reply #127 on: 24 Oct 2019, 13:25 »

 During the war, Isaac Asimov was in the military, and had to deal with the insane paperwork. He deliberately generated a requisition that was insanely complex and parenthesized, but entirely within the guidelines.
They asked for permission to add it to the next manual. To them, it was a *perfect* example...
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