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Author Topic: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)  (Read 10943 times)

notStanley

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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #100 on: 28 Oct 2019, 12:33 »

Power corrupts, power outages crash completely
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hedgie

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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #101 on: 28 Oct 2019, 12:39 »

I live in northern California, but thus far have dodged that bullet.  Not to mention that I'm not currently at risk of having to evacuate.  I will say that for-profit power companies are absolutely corrupt, though.
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Carl-E

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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #102 on: 28 Oct 2019, 15:02 »

I don't think power corrupts. 


However, corruption does have a tendency to weasel its way into power...
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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #103 on: 28 Oct 2019, 20:47 »

I live in northern California, but thus far have dodged that bullet.  Not to mention that I'm not currently at risk of having to evacuate.  I will say that for-profit power companies are absolutely corrupt, though.

Tell me about it.
Westar and KCP&L just merged into Evergy. KCP&L has been notoriously terrible in north KC for decades. And our franchise fee has now tripled switching over from Westar.

EDIT: 'evergy' clearly being a portmanteau of 'evil' and 'energy', but I'm sure they'll claim it's something else.
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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #104 on: 29 Oct 2019, 01:17 »

I have the feeling that the notion that power “reveals” rather than corrupts is unfalsifiable.
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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #105 on: 29 Oct 2019, 07:49 »

OK, points taken for the Barry/Arthur confusion.  But that doesn't change my expressed opinion that Melon already has some kind of psychological damage based on some of her prior utterances and actions.
This brings up an interesting thought/observation.
It is so very easy to be diagnosed as some form of crazy but it is near impossible to counter that once someone makes that label and sticks it on you.
As for mental issues?
I liken that to the human genome - full of busted or weird bits and yet able to remain functional.
We are pretty much a MacGyver assembly of odds and ends that can be repurposed in any emergency to get out of an unforseen situation [mostly]
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oddtail

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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #106 on: 29 Oct 2019, 08:58 »

OK, points taken for the Barry/Arthur confusion.  But that doesn't change my expressed opinion that Melon already has some kind of psychological damage based on some of her prior utterances and actions.
This brings up an interesting thought/observation.
It is so very easy to be diagnosed as some form of crazy but it is near impossible to counter that once someone makes that label and sticks it on you.
As for mental issues?
I liken that to the human genome - full of busted or weird bits and yet able to remain functional.
We are pretty much a MacGyver assembly of odds and ends that can be repurposed in any emergency to get out of an unforseen situation [mostly]

This is gonna be about as legitimate as any "I've read this somewhere, but no, I don't have a link" since I read about it about 15 years ago, but there were actual experiments conducted where psychiatrists were admitted to mental hospitals under the pretense of having some (minor but somewhat disruptive) mental issues. IMMEDIATELY after being admitted, they stopped faking the symptoms.

Some took notes about their stay in the hospital, and hospital staff made a note that they were "engaging in writing activity" without ever asking what the patient was writing. Which, call me crazy, strikes me as the first thing a doctor should do? Scratch doctor - if I knew someone and they started taking extensive notes, human curiosity would drive me to ask "hey, whatcha writing?".

Some simply said they were psychiatrists and were fine and this was an experiment, and they were disbelieved or ignored altogether by the staff. Note that the symptoms they had been faking had nothing to do with delusions or a disconnect from reality, and this would be a pretty strange lie for someone who admitted themselves voluntarily to a hospital to tell.

The conclusion seemed to be that if a person is perceived as mentally ill by doctors and nurses and whatnot, it's impossible to convince them otherwise. It doesn't matter how "normal" you talk to them and behave, and even having specialist knowledge about the human mind is not enough.

Here's the kicker. The staff of a few other hospitals were TOLD a similar experiment would be conducted (e.g. some patients would really be doctors with no mental illness symptoms). The staff became extremely suspicious of many newly admitted people, to the point of being certain they were actually doctors. From what I remember (don't quote me on that), up to HALF of people admitted were believed to be faking it. Of course, the experiment consisted in NOT sending a single doctor to the hospitals. When people with legitimate mental problems - or at least people who were genuinely thought to have some - were implied by other circumstances to maybe actually be healthy, doctors second-guessed themselves a lot.

YMMV, but to me the notion that whether you're mentally healthy or not can largely depend on the completely subjective reasoning of a doctor and you're evaluated on the basis of expectations more than your actual behaviour? Pretty scary. And I'm sure it's changed, because medical knowledge has surely advanced in the decades since that experiment probably took place.

But y'know, still makes me uneasy. And that's just about misdiagnosis, as opposed to committing, medicating or crippling people because they were inconvenient to deal with - for personal, political, racist reasons. Which is well-documented in many countries' histories. Lobotomy was a way to cripple a person permanently in order to essentially make them less disruptive. It offered literally no benefits other than making the patient docile. And it received a Nobel Prize in medicine.
« Last Edit: 29 Oct 2019, 09:03 by oddtail »
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oddtail

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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #107 on: 29 Oct 2019, 09:08 »

I have the feeling that the notion that power “reveals” rather than corrupts is unfalsifiable.

Fundamentally? Yes. It's impossible to fully explain a person's motivations as opposed to actions, not without being able to read their mind.

But it's possible to point to earlier, less obvious behaviour and show that there is no apparent pattern of worsening behaviour when a person gets more power.

In other words, when a dictator has a history of acting like a power-hungry, petty tyrant, saying that power influenced their behaviour and restraint may be a stretch.

Besides, isn't "power corrupts" also unfalsifiable on a fundamental level? And it's a commonly accepted wisdom.
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hedgie

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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #108 on: 29 Oct 2019, 10:40 »

This is gonna be about as legitimate as any "I've read this somewhere, but no, I don't have a link" since I read about it about 15 years ago, but there were actual experiments conducted where psychiatrists were admitted to mental hospitals under the pretense of having some (minor but somewhat disruptive) mental issues. IMMEDIATELY after being admitted, they stopped faking the symptoms.
Okay, story time:

I was never a shrink conducting an experiment in a mental hospital, but I have been to a few.  The most recent times, I was even there voluntarily after the initial hold was over.  But the first time, there was this extremely corrupt doctor.  Granted, I was having some issues, which were compounded by having been really depressed/erratic after an argument with the young lady I was dating at the time, which did land me down in there.  But I played nice and figured that, hells, I'm going to be out in three days, no big worry.  And on the third day, I get called into the doctor who said that he planned on keeping me there another two weeks because he thought that I was a "danger to myself", and "gravely disabled" due to technically being homeless, although I don't think that really counts if one is working, and between that and savings is staying in a hotel every night until I found a new place.  People who were actually on the streets, and seeing people who weren't really there were getting thrown out nearly as fast as they came in.  But I had decent insurance, so they were pocketing about $3k/day to keep me in there.  I ended up talking to the patient's rights advocate, and she was filing the paperwork to get me out, and told me that several of the nurses had signed on, since they thought that there was no reason to keep me there.  My then-gf flirted with ending up inside herself, or at least charges when she threatened the doctor.  Okay, maybe that wasn't the best thing for my case.

What got me out within 24 hours of doing so was having her talk to her older sister, who had just passed the state bar about a week prior.  She didn't have a job in the field yet, and had never tried a case, but that didn't matter.  Just having someone who was able to practice law sending a nastygram, and I was out as soon as the ink on the paperwork dried.
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oddtail

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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #109 on: 29 Oct 2019, 10:57 »

Thank you for sharing your story, hedgie.
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hedgie

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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #110 on: 29 Oct 2019, 11:05 »

NP.  The system here for both outpatient and inpatient is just terrible.  I still can't get the most effective medication that has the fewest side-effects for my anxiety because unless one pays a premium or has good coverage, doctors won't give out controlled substances. 

Edit: I know that I've ranted about this before, but honestly, I'd rather risk becoming a functional addict working with my doctor to manage things than completely non-functional because literally everything else out there either doesn't work, or makes me too sedated to function.
« Last Edit: 29 Oct 2019, 11:20 by hedgie »
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rtmq0227

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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #111 on: 29 Oct 2019, 11:31 »

I still can't get the most effective medication that has the fewest side-effects for my anxiety because unless one pays a premium or has good coverage, doctors won't give out controlled substances.

To jump on your tangent, even WITH coverage and a doctor on your side, you can get shafted by the US medical system.  I was prescribed a medication once to assist with mental health issues, and was super excited to start this new medication as my doctor seemed to really have a handle on what was messed up in my headspace.  I was excited all the way until the pharmacist told me it would be $400 for my 1-month scrip.  I was still on my dad's health insurance at the time, but was living on my own and struggling financially.  It would have drained my savings to pick up the scrip and then I'd be unable to continue to pay for the scrip.  The problem?  There wasn't a generic alternative, and it wasn't viewed as a life-critical medication, so it was on the list of meds that insurance didn't cover.  So I had to walk away from the specific med that may have solved the problems I was struggling with and gotten my life started up again because someone didn't think the medicine should be covered.
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hedgie

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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #112 on: 29 Oct 2019, 11:57 »

That too.  I used to pay for my meds entirely out of pocket.  It was painful but doable.  Then one day, the cost of all my scrips went up from ~$200 to ~$700 a month pretty much overnight.  I found that by shifting them all to Costco, I saved about 80%, and one doesn't even need a membership to use the pharmacy there.
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Tova

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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #113 on: 29 Oct 2019, 20:50 »

I have the feeling that the notion that power “reveals” rather than corrupts is unfalsifiable.

Fundamentally? Yes. It's impossible to fully explain a person's motivations as opposed to actions, not without being able to read their mind.

But it's possible to point to earlier, less obvious behaviour and show that there is no apparent pattern of worsening behaviour when a person gets more power.

In other words, when a dictator has a history of acting like a power-hungry, petty tyrant, saying that power influenced their behaviour and restraint may be a stretch.

True. Power isn’t revealing anything in that case, though, is it?

Quote
Besides, isn't "power corrupts" also unfalsifiable on a fundamental level? And it's a commonly accepted wisdom.

Both theories are adequate explanations of observed changes in behaviour.

But if you want to claim that, in a specific instance, an individual was already “evil” but exhibited no behaviour or evidence of that evil, then fundamentally you are making a claim based on zero evidence. Unless you want to claim that all humans are evil. Which I don’t feel inclined agree with.
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Mr Intrepid

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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #114 on: 29 Oct 2019, 20:59 »

Hmmm... no new strip has been posted as yet.
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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #115 on: 30 Oct 2019, 00:07 »

None on Patreon either, which is very unusual. Jeph also hasn't done anything on Twitter for almost a day.

He did say that he wasn't feeling well, though.
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Penquin47

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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #116 on: 30 Oct 2019, 00:10 »

This is gonna be about as legitimate as any "I've read this somewhere, but no, I don't have a link" since I read about it about 15 years ago, but there were actual experiments conducted where psychiatrists were admitted to mental hospitals under the pretense of having some (minor but somewhat disruptive) mental issues. IMMEDIATELY after being admitted, they stopped faking the symptoms.

Some took notes about their stay in the hospital, and hospital staff made a note that they were "engaging in writing activity" without ever asking what the patient was writing. Which, call me crazy, strikes me as the first thing a doctor should do? Scratch doctor - if I knew someone and they started taking extensive notes, human curiosity would drive me to ask "hey, whatcha writing?".

Some simply said they were psychiatrists and were fine and this was an experiment, and they were disbelieved or ignored altogether by the staff. Note that the symptoms they had been faking had nothing to do with delusions or a disconnect from reality, and this would be a pretty strange lie for someone who admitted themselves voluntarily to a hospital to tell.

The conclusion seemed to be that if a person is perceived as mentally ill by doctors and nurses and whatnot, it's impossible to convince them otherwise. It doesn't matter how "normal" you talk to them and behave, and even having specialist knowledge about the human mind is not enough.

Here's the kicker. The staff of a few other hospitals were TOLD a similar experiment would be conducted (e.g. some patients would really be doctors with no mental illness symptoms). The staff became extremely suspicious of many newly admitted people, to the point of being certain they were actually doctors. From what I remember (don't quote me on that), up to HALF of people admitted were believed to be faking it. Of course, the experiment consisted in NOT sending a single doctor to the hospitals. When people with legitimate mental problems - or at least people who were genuinely thought to have some - were implied by other circumstances to maybe actually be healthy, doctors second-guessed themselves a lot.

YMMV, but to me the notion that whether you're mentally healthy or not can largely depend on the completely subjective reasoning of a doctor and you're evaluated on the basis of expectations more than your actual behaviour? Pretty scary. And I'm sure it's changed, because medical knowledge has surely advanced in the decades since that experiment probably took place.

But y'know, still makes me uneasy. And that's just about misdiagnosis, as opposed to committing, medicating or crippling people because they were inconvenient to deal with - for personal, political, racist reasons. Which is well-documented in many countries' histories. Lobotomy was a way to cripple a person permanently in order to essentially make them less disruptive. It offered literally no benefits other than making the patient docile. And it received a Nobel Prize in medicine.

Here you go: Rosenhan Experiment
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oddtail

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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #117 on: 30 Oct 2019, 01:08 »

Thanks! Seems I misremembered some details (in my defense - again, that's from something I read once, and at least 15 years ago), but reading the wiki article, I'm pretty sure that's the experiment I read about.
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BubblesWasRight

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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #118 on: 05 Nov 2019, 05:48 »

It seems like Roko is having a time of it, so I found something that might cheer her up
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Thrillho

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Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #119 on: 05 Nov 2019, 12:43 »

It seems like Roko is having a time of it, so I found something that might cheer her up

It is genuinely unbelievable to me that you registered just to post this. I'm so happy.
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