Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

  • 24 Feb 2020, 20:26
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

pick two for a good combo genre?

science fiction
fantasy
noir
historical fiction
mystery
romance
adventure
slice-of-life
drama
comedy
tragedy
parody
poetry
alternate history
horror

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)  (Read 6877 times)

shanejayell

  • Beyoncé
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 740
    • Church of Yuri
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #50 on: 22 Oct 2019, 19:05 »

Interesting.

cesium133

  • comeback tour!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,603
  • Has a fucked-up browser history
    • Cesium Comics
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #51 on: 22 Oct 2019, 19:36 »

My headcannon (which always misfires): Greg L. is a neural network that doesn't actually have any intelligence, and just spends all its time on Facebook.


Also, I've accidentally followed people like this on Twitter...


edit -- And considering Beeps' shirt, "Robot Overload" would be an interesting name if Jeph ever decided to rename the comic.  :evil:
Logged
The nerdy comic I update on Saturdays: Cesium Comics

Unofficial character tag thingy for QC

St.Clair

  • Psychopath in a hockey mask
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 622
  • not actually a saint
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #52 on: 22 Oct 2019, 20:01 »

1. I can only assume Jeph already has that hoodie in the design pipeline.

2. Most of us have probably encountered humans that would have difficulty passing a Turing test.  :-\
Logged

Gyrre

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1,750
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #53 on: 22 Oct 2019, 20:59 »

Comic.

I wonder how long it'll be before people start hollering about Beepatrice's sweatshirt.
I should get one of those for work. I've been accused of being an unfeeling controling bastard by whiney temps often enough for it to be ironically funny. (Seriously, just put your stupid beardnets on. I'm your fair warning, the super is the one you got in trouble with.)
Logged
a real-ass gaddam sword

"Broken swords and dragon bones scattered on the way back home."

Perfectly Reasonable

  • Vagina Manifesto
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 689
  • Be nice to everybody. So you're better than them.
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #54 on: 22 Oct 2019, 21:04 »

Had to squint my browser. Still not sure it isn't 'Robot Overlord'.

What are Melon's dreams like if she doesn't know about 'good parts'?
Logged
What would I do if I were smart?
I guess first I'd stop taking the stupid pills.

KoalaBro2

  • Notorious N.U.R.R.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #55 on: 22 Oct 2019, 22:14 »

1.  It is *definitely* Robot Overlord.
2.  Any thoughts on the title and footer?  Just a random statement of support for Warren, or does it somehow relate to the content of the comic?
Logged

Tova

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,248
  • You're not the only one, no.
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #56 on: 22 Oct 2019, 23:11 »

Interesting.

Huh...

2.  Any thoughts on the title and footer?  Just a random statement of support for Warren, or does it somehow relate to the content of the comic?

Jeph got annoyed at someone on Facebook and decided to express his feelings through Roko, I suppose.
Logged
Would you like to try a little
Marmalade
Instead?

BenRG

  • WoW gold miner on break
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,721
  • Boldly Going From The Back Seat!
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #57 on: 22 Oct 2019, 23:20 »

I'm starting to suspect that Roko has a lot of anger in her, not just in behalf of May but just anger in general towards the whole world for all the things that annoy her, even if those things aren't any one person or group's 'fault' in particular. I think that it's going to cause her problems. I mean, it's probably a bad idea to go into a meeting planning for a fight of one sort or another. It colours one's perceptions and maybe makes you ignore easier and less-confrontational options.

My feeling is that 'Greg L' is a fake 'front' account to prevent Roko from doing just what she is doing here - Trying to find dirt on-line to coerce them into cooperation. I wouldn't even be surprised if is a trap of some kind and that, at some point, Greg will use Roko's research as proof of ill intent on her part (and wouldn't it be ironic if her aggressive behaviour were to only make May's situation worse?). Like some others, I wonder if Greg will turn out to be an unembodied AI of some kind who has set aside an autonomous subroutine to create a fake accounts full of random trivia. If They're smart, they may even be linking to paid articles for which they're claiming ad fees!

Regarding Beepatrice's shirt, my headcanon is that 'Robot Overlord' is a long-defunct techno-punk band; Beeps found one of their old tour hoodies in Goodwill and thought it was funny. She was right, it is!
« Last Edit: 23 Oct 2019, 02:48 by BenRG »
Logged
~~~~

They call me BenRG... But I don't know why!

OldGoat

  • Bling blang blong blung
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,006
  • Give me heresy, or give me death.
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #58 on: 23 Oct 2019, 00:28 »

I don't know how much time Jeph is going to put in to building a throw-away character, which makes me wonder if "Greg L." is actually someone we've met already. 

Maybe Greg L. is what/who Melon becomes when she's "at work."  She can't abide her job, so she remembers her work days as being slithered upon by vermin rather than the soulless duties she must perform as her alter ego, Greg.  And of course, her dreams would have no "good parts."

Or maybe Whale Sperm Barry in his lucid moments is Greg.
Logged

Case

Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #59 on: 23 Oct 2019, 05:20 »

2.  Any thoughts on the title and footer?  Just a random statement of support for Warren, or does it somehow relate to the content of the comic?

Jeph got annoyed at someone on Facebook and decided to express his feelings through Roko, I suppose.

I thought it was a statement on The Gift of FacebookTM - every creep being able to creep random people on their social media - being creepy to some people?

Or maybe that's just me getting being old again ...  :-\
Logged
"Freedom is always the freedom of the dissenter" - Rosa Luxemburg
"The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is you don’t know you're a member of the Dunning-Kruger club. People miss that." - David Dunning

Wingy

  • Pneumatic ratchet pants
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 340
  • Is my cape on right?
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #60 on: 23 Oct 2019, 05:43 »

I don't know how much time Jeph is going to put in to building a throw-away character, which makes me wonder if "Greg L." is actually someone we've met already. 
Of course, Mittens Romney has already done such, and maybe this strip is a comment on that. 

Another manifestation of Yay, who has far more resources available?

Logged
This space intentionally left almost blank.

Perfectly Reasonable

  • Vagina Manifesto
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 689
  • Be nice to everybody. So you're better than them.
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #61 on: 23 Oct 2019, 12:07 »

( looks at Roko ) My favorite color is violet!

( looks at Beepatrice ) My favorite color is orange!
Logged
What would I do if I were smart?
I guess first I'd stop taking the stupid pills.

Inconsequential

  • Emoticontraindication
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 68
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #62 on: 23 Oct 2019, 15:06 »

Some real live meatspace people maintain their FB accounts in a similar way. Just some small amount of innocuous nearly random activity so as to not seem like a luddite, but nothing that could possibly offend anyone rational.

Still, "Greg L." is pretty obviously a bot of some sort. In a universe with fully sentient AIs wandering around, it should be trivial to come up with something more believable than that, so perhaps it's a trap of some sort.

I wonder if "Greg L." is related to Gary?
Logged

m112358

  • Notorious N.U.R.R.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
  • to Mars and beyond
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #63 on: 23 Oct 2019, 19:01 »

2.  Any thoughts on the title and footer?  Just a random statement of support for Warren, or does it somehow relate to the content of the comic?

Jeph got annoyed at someone on Facebook and decided to express his feelings through Roko, I suppose.

I thought it was a statement on The Gift of FacebookTM - every creep being able to creep random people on their social media - being creepy to some people?

Or maybe that's just me getting being old again ...  :-\

Notice in the right hand column on the facebook post the little disclaimer text
(Legal disclaimer
Were a giant tech monopoly
laws dont apply to us, lol)

Not to say its not in support of Warren but an intersting aside
Logged

m112358

  • Notorious N.U.R.R.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
  • to Mars and beyond
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #64 on: 23 Oct 2019, 19:09 »

Also new comic!
Logged

shanejayell

  • Beyoncé
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 740
    • Church of Yuri
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #65 on: 23 Oct 2019, 19:34 »

I'm really not SURPRISED that Roko wants to be able to blackmail enemies....

cybersmurf

  • 1-800-SCABIES
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 832
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #66 on: 23 Oct 2019, 21:43 »

I'm really not SURPRISED that Roko wants to be able to blackmail enemies....

Yeah, it's almost like she's used to everyone having some dirty past.
« Last Edit: 23 Oct 2019, 22:49 by cybersmurf »
Logged
I solemnly swear I'm up to no good.

Is it cold in here?

  • Administrator
  • Awakened
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20,356
  • He/him/his pronouns
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #67 on: 23 Oct 2019, 22:31 »

Very early on we saw her arm-twisting Faye into becoming an informant. Part of the job. She needs to drop some of her cop reflexes now.
Logged
"Non-compliance is a social skill"
Quote from: an unnamed minister's sermon
In your face, darkness!  We are the light and we outnumber you!

oddtail

  • Asleep in the boner patch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 790
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #68 on: 23 Oct 2019, 23:05 »

I'm really not SURPRISED that Roko wants to be able to blackmail enemies....

I'm gonna just go ahead and say it.

I like Roko as a character. And I know she means well, she's not an evil person or anything.

But I'm glad she quit being a cop. I wouldn't trust someone who handles interaction with reople this way to be a cop. Nor would I assume she can suppress this impulse to dig up shit as a potential dirty tactic *when* she is being a cop.

I don't like the phrase "power corrupts", but I've recently been introduced to a similar sentiment, and that's "power reveals". Roko has a certain attitude towards, let's say, justice. And her attitude seems to be "I'm one of the good ones, so of course I need the capacity to leverage my power against someone". This is precisely what I hope never to have to deal with when I have interaction with a police officer.

I may be harsh, but maybe Roko wasn't so above all the dirty cops as she believed herself to be. And sure, it's Roko we're talking about, she isn't out to hurt anyone, she just wants results.

The issue being, I imagine most any cop that takes shortcuts is like "come on, it's me we're talking about! I'm not out to hurt anyone".

Granted, if Roko quit her job as a cop because she wanted to avoid abusing her power and to have less baggage attached to uncompromising approaches due to not being in a position of authority anymore, that's understandable and  get it. I'm not exactly condemning her current preparation, but I *am* glad she is not acting in an official capacity as I don't believe that'd be a good fit.

I hope the comic addresses this in some way.
Logged

BenRG

  • WoW gold miner on break
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,721
  • Boldly Going From The Back Seat!
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #69 on: 23 Oct 2019, 23:18 »

This is probably me but I suspect that Roko may be projecting a bit here. I'm sure that her public personal social media accounts are quite bland but her private ones are all filled with bread and human abs. She does it so why shouldn't everyone else? :lol:

Seriously, though, I'm glad that Beepatrice agrees about the 'adversarial' thing.

But I'm glad she quit being a cop. I wouldn't trust someone who handles interaction with reople this way to be a cop. Nor would I assume she can suppress this impulse to dig up shit as a potential dirty tactic *when* she is being a cop.

This does seem to be an unfortunate side-effect of modern-police training: It reduces all interactions between your organisation and 'outsiders' to a pseudo-warfare 'us and them' conflict. Everyone else is a potential enemy until proven otherwise and you're only likely to be successful (let alone safe) if you have coerced total control over any scenario.
Logged
~~~~

They call me BenRG... But I don't know why!

Wingy

  • Pneumatic ratchet pants
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 340
  • Is my cape on right?
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #70 on: 24 Oct 2019, 04:56 »

I wouldn't trust someone who handles interaction with reople this way to be a cop.
As a negotiator, the more you learn about your counterpart(s) in a negotiation scenario, the better prepared you are to arrive at a win-win result.  So it's not always about blackmail - it's about understanding why your opposite number(s) are reacting to your suggestions that way.

Now, it's clear Roko has some anger issues to get through.  I'm expecting her to lash out at Yay sometime soon for not reaching in and fixing Roko's issues.
Logged
This space intentionally left almost blank.

jwhouk

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,439
  • The Valley of the Sun
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #71 on: 24 Oct 2019, 05:06 »

If all you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.
Logged
"Character is what you are in the Dark." - D.L. Moody
There is no joke that can be made online without someone being offended by it.
Life's too short to be ashamed of how you were born.
8645

Marco

  • Balloon animal serial killer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
  • Not quite an earthling
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #72 on: 24 Oct 2019, 05:42 »

Someone has to remember Roko why did she quit the Police...
Logged

rtmq0227

  • Balloon animal serial killer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 87
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #73 on: 24 Oct 2019, 06:33 »

I hesitate to read too much into Roko's FB stalking this person.  As previous posters have said, it is a common and helpful strategy in negotiations to know who your counterpart is.  You can use that to lean on them, sure, but you can also use it to help get them to your desired outcome on their terms.  If she found this person had a tendency towards social justice, she could present arguments that helping May out of the pit she's stuck in with a new body would serve that interest.  If they are PR driven, she could pitch it as community outreach.  You can shift your argument to fit your audience without it being corrupt, and it's not like she hacked his social media accounts (She's just looking at public posts), though I sense that's where this is going.

Will Roko be willing to accept defeat here and move on, or will she have Yay hack their accounts (or do it herself)?  And if she does the latter, how likely is it that it's going to backfire?
Logged
The best lore starts as an off-handed comment or joke.

Inconsequential

  • Emoticontraindication
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 68
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #74 on: 24 Oct 2019, 16:04 »

Someone has to remember Roko why did she quit the Police...

I think any minute now, Roko might come to her senses and have a "what have I become????" moment.

Then again, perhaps she considers this person (or AI, or dumb algorithmic bot, or whatever the hell "Greg L" really is) to be a sworn enemy who screwed over her buddy and countless others with brainless decisions. She's a robot on a mission, and has no chill...
Logged

Tova

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,248
  • You're not the only one, no.
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #75 on: 24 Oct 2019, 22:37 »

Some of you are reading the final panel's sentence, "I'm not saying I want to destroy him, I just need to have that option available," very generously.
Logged
Would you like to try a little
Marmalade
Instead?

cybersmurf

  • 1-800-SCABIES
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 832
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #76 on: 25 Oct 2019, 01:58 »

Personally, I think Roko is following her force of habit, looking for dirt. Also, dealing with bureaucracy, she'd like to have some kind of edge to get stuff moving rather sooner than waaaaaaaay later. Especially given it's about someone on parole, a case not many people may care about speed.
Logged
I solemnly swear I'm up to no good.

St.Clair

  • Psychopath in a hockey mask
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 622
  • not actually a saint
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #77 on: 25 Oct 2019, 03:58 »

New comic!

Someone on another forum supplied this relevant line:
Quote from: Terry Pratchett
There’s lots of people will help you with alcohol business, but there’s no one out there arranging little meetings where you can stand up and say, "My name is Sam Vimes and I’m a really suspicious bastard."
Logged

BenRG

  • WoW gold miner on break
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,721
  • Boldly Going From The Back Seat!
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #78 on: 25 Oct 2019, 04:08 »

Roko? Welcome to the human race. Every one of us has a whole raft of behaviours, our own justification for which make us sound like the worst kind of asshole when you say them out loud no matter how brilliant and witty it all sounded in our heads!

You know, I really love the Roko/Beepatrice dynamic. One one hand, you have the physically stunning and very capable Roko who has some behavioural and mental issues hiding 'under the hood'. On the other hand, you have the sweet and somewhat-nerdy Beepatrice who, despite her anxiety issues and generally weaker knowledge base has a more balanced view of the world and really is needed to keep Roko from going completely off the rails.

Someone on another forum supplied this relevant line:
Quote from: Terry Pratchett
There’s lots of people will help you with alcohol business, but there’s no one out there arranging little meetings where you can stand up and say, "My name is Sam Vimes and I’m a really suspicious bastard."

Sam Vimes always felt that a good copper had to be most suspicious of themselves and their own motives. To him, 'Who Watches the Watchman' was the man in the mirror and he was very good at all aspects of his job. 'The Policeman' was a distinct part of his psyche and, in Thud sent a demonic berserker running out of his head as fast as it could!
Logged
~~~~

They call me BenRG... But I don't know why!

Wingy

  • Pneumatic ratchet pants
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 340
  • Is my cape on right?
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #79 on: 25 Oct 2019, 04:37 »

4120: <Snicker/>

During my bout of insomnia last night, it occurred to me that maybe May gets Roko's old body, suitably (and probably only somewhat) repaired.  Not only do we get all the mis-identification fun, we also get Roko's continual existential crisis for free!  :-\ :lol:
Logged
This space intentionally left almost blank.

BenRG

  • WoW gold miner on break
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,721
  • Boldly Going From The Back Seat!
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #80 on: 25 Oct 2019, 04:51 »

Roko's old chassis was totally mashed but I like the idea of May getting a rebuild special that might have some refurbished Roko-bits but mostly comes from other sources. This could be really weird for Roko because the RF transceiver is one of them and it freaks her to hell that May is transmitting her old RFID code.
Logged
~~~~

They call me BenRG... But I don't know why!

Marco

  • Balloon animal serial killer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
  • Not quite an earthling
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #81 on: 25 Oct 2019, 05:26 »

When Beeps is the most reasonable person in the room, it has to trigger some warning.
Logged

shanejayell

  • Beyoncé
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 740
    • Church of Yuri
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #82 on: 25 Oct 2019, 07:48 »

Heh. Glad Roko is starting to figure her own issues out too...

drewdane

  • Plantmonster
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 30
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #83 on: 25 Oct 2019, 07:52 »

Sci-fi/Comedy!

I LOVE Douglas Adams.

I was going to pick Sci-fi/Comedy, but then I remembered Robert Asprin's books.  Wait - I guess that would be fantasy/comedy.  Oh well, either way you end up with nerd humor, and that's not good for anyone.
Logged

drewdane

  • Plantmonster
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 30
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #84 on: 25 Oct 2019, 07:55 »

Honestly, I don't really care about Faye's robot shirt that Jeff's been flogging, but I would totally pay cash money for a "Robot Overlord" shirt!
Logged

JoeCovenant

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,675
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #85 on: 25 Oct 2019, 09:37 »

Honestly, I don't really care about Faye's robot shirt that Jeff's been flogging, but I would totally pay cash money for a "Robot Overlord" shirt!

In

3...

2...

1...
Logged
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands

Wingy

  • Pneumatic ratchet pants
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 340
  • Is my cape on right?
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #86 on: 25 Oct 2019, 12:58 »

OK, points taken for the Barry/Arthur confusion.  But that doesn't change my expressed opinion that Melon already has some kind of psychological damage based on some of her prior utterances and actions.
Logged
This space intentionally left almost blank.

Perfectly Reasonable

  • Vagina Manifesto
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 689
  • Be nice to everybody. So you're better than them.
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #87 on: 25 Oct 2019, 16:52 »

Like:
"Dreams can have good parts?"
Logged
What would I do if I were smart?
I guess first I'd stop taking the stupid pills.

Penquin47

  • Beyond Thunderdome
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 553
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #88 on: 26 Oct 2019, 15:16 »

Sci-fi/Comedy!

I LOVE Douglas Adams.

I was going to pick Sci-fi/Comedy, but then I remembered Robert Asprin's books.  Wait - I guess that would be fantasy/comedy.  Oh well, either way you end up with nerd humor, and that's not good for anyone.

The Phule books are sci-fi/comedy.
Logged

Ariaspinner

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #89 on: 27 Oct 2019, 08:34 »

Sci-fi/Fantasy FTW.  Got to love a good Shadowrun or Star Wars adventure!

And "Power Corrupts" IS the correct phrase. Anyone who has seen Petty Dictator Syndrome can tell you that.
It is Success that reveals. If you want to see someones true self then grant them success.
Logged

oddtail

  • Asleep in the boner patch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 790
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #90 on: 27 Oct 2019, 09:14 »

And "Power Corrupts" IS the correct phrase. Anyone who has seen Petty Dictator Syndrome can tell you that.

I'm aware that the phrase exists, I just fundamentally disagree with it. And "Power doesn't corrupt, power reveals" is a sentiment coming from Robert Caro, who in turn was commenting on Lyndon B. Johnson.

I don't believe in power corrupting. People in power always, ALWAYS have the chance to do things that they would face harsh consequences for if they had less power. If you choose to believe they were somehow amazing (or at least decent) people before they came into power and somehow their personalities got rewritten just because they could do more, it's your prerogative. But if we dig into earlier lives of powerful people who did horrible things, you nearly always see warning signs that hindsight helps identify, of behaviour that was either ignored or well-hidden. So, to me, it stands to reason that they were simply unable or unwilling to act on their worst impulses openly.

"Petty Dictator Syndrome" - I'm not sure if this refers to anything specific, Google is no help. If it's simply a generic statement on how dictators act - I mean... uhh, yeah. People who are upstanding and moral and exercise restraint and forethought do not usually clamor to BECOME dictators. I think correlation reveals a causal relation in the opposite direction than you're implying. It's not that being a dictator makes you petty, it's that it's a certain kind of people who become dictators.
Logged

Ariaspinner

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #91 on: 27 Oct 2019, 09:30 »

Sorry, Petty Dictator Syndrome is my own made up term... I do that. Using the Google the correct term is Petty Tyrant. Sorry.

But no I don't get what you're saying at all. Watch what happens when a regular worker gets promoted to boss. Now instead of having to get approval or consensus to change anything they can just demand change. And then punish anyone who doesn't like it. It happens so often it's scary. THAT is corruption not revelation.
Logged

Case

Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #92 on: 27 Oct 2019, 12:41 »

But no I don't get what you're saying at all.

https://www.thecut.com/2016/11/how-power-reveals-personality.html

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/give-and-take/201304/yes-power-corrupts-power-also-reveals

https://www.businessinsider.com/wharton-professor-organizational-psychologist-adam-grant-what-leaders-get-wrong-with-promotions-exit-interviews-power-moves-2019-1?IR=T

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/01/magazine/robert-caro-working-memoir.html

...

Watch what happens when a regular worker gets promoted to boss. Now instead of having to get approval or consensus to change anything they can just demand change. And then punish anyone who doesn't like it. It happens so often it's scary. THAT is corruption not revelation.

Nope, that is fiction. Moreover, it is fiction about behaviour, not about the character that animates that behaviour. And most importantly, it is fiction that would fit both theories - of character corrupted by power or revealed by it. I don't see anything here that'd be relevant to-, or helpful with deciding which theory fits reality better.

Flourishing Old Occam's shaving implement rather than wielding it, so to speak ...  :laugh:
« Last Edit: 27 Oct 2019, 13:55 by Case »
Logged
"Freedom is always the freedom of the dissenter" - Rosa Luxemburg
"The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is you don’t know you're a member of the Dunning-Kruger club. People miss that." - David Dunning

oddtail

  • Asleep in the boner patch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 790
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #93 on: 27 Oct 2019, 14:07 »

But no I don't get what you're saying at all. Watch what happens when a regular worker gets promoted to boss. Now instead of having to get approval or consensus to change anything they can just demand change.

But it doesn't invalidate my point. They can do stuff now that they couldn't before. The notion that they became worse people is, to me, completely unsubstantiated. They act in a way they *couldn't* act before, as far as I'm concerned, not in the way they didn't *want to* before.

If I give someone a knife and they stab me, my conclusion won't be "that person didn't ever want to stab anyone, and holding a knife makes a person want to stab people!". My conclusion will be "that person always wanted a knife to stab someone, and now they got it". If you substitute any real power for "knife", it works the same. There's PLENTY of people who wield power in many forms and don't use it in horrible ways. And there's plenty of people who don't wield power and are still petty, cruel and dangerous in small ways. You know why they are only bad in small ways? Because they haven't had the *opportunity* to be bad in large ways.

Why does it matter? Because it removes the responsibility from powerful people to do good. People just accept that that's the way of the world. Well, it isn't. People who want to do bad things often CRAVE power, and often end up in positions of power as a result. That absolutely happens. But I have seen no compelling evidence that having more power leads people to be more cruel, less responsible or otherwise bad. If anything, I've seen more (anecdotal) evidence that when people are handed responsibility, that motivates them to step up to the task.

"This person was promoted to boss and acted badly, look what being a boss made them become" is backwards reasoning to me. "Power corrupts" implicitly removes agency, culpability and reasonable discourse about the limits of the use of power. And that's just no good as far as I'm concerned. Handing bad people power and shrugging "eh, it was bound to happen" is deliberate obfuscation engineered by immoral people in power so that the rest of us don't pay attention.

It builds the narrative that anyone would act this way, so we might as well keep on, business as usual. It's also  way for people who want to misuse the little power they have to feel better about themselves. It's just human nature, right?

No, I don't think so. "Power corrupts" is just the same message as "look what you made me do!" shouted by every abuser in the history of the planet, repackaged to sound smarter. The fact that we have the notion of "bad boss" shows that there's nothing inherently bad about being a boss. Sure, people who end up *becoming* bosses may be bad people, because they may have more drive, ambition and be more ruthless. But again, if those people climb up more easily, it just shows that corrupted and corruptible people crave power. NOT that power corrupts them. Those who climbed to the top no matter the cost were, pretty much by definition, pretty bad already when they started their climb.

I can honestly think of only one powerful person that I would call unequivocally corrupted by too much power, and that's Maximilien Robespierre. For most historical and modern figures to hold power of any sort, digging a little into a person's biography is a pretty decent predictor of what they would do later in life, from a greater height.

Imagine a person who worked as a lawyer and was a community organiser and who graduated magna cum laude from Harvard. Now imagine, if you will, an enterpreneur of inherited wealth, with questionable financial sense and a history of screwing his business partners. Now - purely hypothetically, of course - is it possible to make some educated guesses what those two very different people might do when being handed considerable power? In the form of, I don't know, the presidency of a major Western nation?
« Last Edit: 27 Oct 2019, 14:14 by oddtail »
Logged

Ariaspinner

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #94 on: 27 Oct 2019, 18:47 »

Ok Case the best of those articles is that opinion piece by Dr Grant. So I will focus on that.
He says power corrupts AND reveals. That takers hide their taker qualities until they get power and that the corruption reveals their hidden dark side. But that hasn't been my experience. People always show whether they are givers or takers, having power or not. Manipulators are great at hiding the truth but only manipulators. So for many promoted people nothing is being revealed. Their co-workers know exactly what horrors are about to happen once the taker gets promoted. So what changes? Power corrupts their already selfish behavior into that of a Petty Tyrant.
   ---==+==---
Ok Oddtail I understand you now.
You see it as an excuse. I see it as an explanation. In my eyes power corrupts doesn't exonerate anyone. It just explains the crime. Just because power has a corrupting influence doesn't mean it isn't wrong to become corrupt. Power offers an easy path to getting what you want by forcing others. Not everyone takes the path but most do. Even good people take the easy path and become corrupt ("for the greater good" they tell themselves) but they are just as criminal as the selfish one who took it knowing it was wrong and not caring.
Logged

Gyrre

  • Duck attack survivor
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1,750
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #95 on: 27 Oct 2019, 20:21 »

I guess the poll's results aren't really all that surprising.
Logged
a real-ass gaddam sword

"Broken swords and dragon bones scattered on the way back home."

Is it cold in here?

  • Administrator
  • Awakened
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20,356
  • He/him/his pronouns
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #96 on: 27 Oct 2019, 21:13 »

The original quote was that power _tends_ to corrupt, allowing for exceptions.
Quote
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority: still more when you superadd the tendency or the certainty of corruption by authority.
Logged
"Non-compliance is a social skill"
Quote from: an unnamed minister's sermon
In your face, darkness!  We are the light and we outnumber you!

St.Clair

  • Psychopath in a hockey mask
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 622
  • not actually a saint
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #97 on: 27 Oct 2019, 21:15 »

"Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat."
Logged

Ariaspinner

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #98 on: 27 Oct 2019, 21:58 »

I guess the poll's results aren't really all that surprising.

Not completely as expected though.
I mean yes the Comic is Slice of Life/Sci Fi so the forum readers are probably biased that way.
But I honestly thought Drama would do better since it combos SO GOOD with other genres...
I view Drama as seasoning. Adding it to a meal is awesome but a big handful of it by itself is gross.
Logged

OldGoat

  • Bling blang blong blung
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,006
  • Give me heresy, or give me death.
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #99 on: 27 Oct 2019, 22:37 »

In my experience and observation, those who insist most vehemently that power invariably corrupts are usually quite eager to acquire some, even when they protest to the contrary.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up