THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

  • 28 Mar 2024, 09:06
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

pick two for a good combo genre?

science fiction
fantasy
noir
historical fiction
mystery
romance
adventure
slice-of-life
drama
comedy
tragedy
parody
poetry
alternate history
horror

Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)  (Read 21457 times)

notStanley

  • Larger than most fish
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 122
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #100 on: 28 Oct 2019, 12:33 »

Power corrupts, power outages crash completely
Logged

hedgie

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,382
  • No Pasarán!
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #101 on: 28 Oct 2019, 12:39 »

I live in northern California, but thus far have dodged that bullet.  Not to mention that I'm not currently at risk of having to evacuate.  I will say that for-profit power companies are absolutely corrupt, though.
Logged
"The highest treason in the USA is to say Americans are not loved, no matter where they are, no matter what they are doing there." -- Vonnegut

Carl-E

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,346
  • The distilled essence of Mr. James Beam himself.
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #102 on: 28 Oct 2019, 15:02 »

I don't think power corrupts. 


However, corruption does have a tendency to weasel its way into power...
Logged
When people try to speak a gut reaction, they end up talking out their ass.

Gyrre

  • Born in a Nalgene bottle
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,288
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #103 on: 28 Oct 2019, 20:47 »

I live in northern California, but thus far have dodged that bullet.  Not to mention that I'm not currently at risk of having to evacuate.  I will say that for-profit power companies are absolutely corrupt, though.

Tell me about it.
Westar and KCP&L just merged into Evergy. KCP&L has been notoriously terrible in north KC for decades. And our franchise fee has now tripled switching over from Westar.

EDIT: 'evergy' clearly being a portmanteau of 'evil' and 'energy', but I'm sure they'll claim it's something else.
Logged
Quote
a real-ass gaddam sword
Quote
"Broken swords and dragon bones scattered on the way back home."

Too stubborn to die, just like the rest of my family.

Tova

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,725
  • Defender of the Terrible Denizens of QC
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #104 on: 29 Oct 2019, 01:17 »

I have the feeling that the notion that power “reveals” rather than corrupts is unfalsifiable.
Logged
Yet the lies of Melkor, the mighty and the accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days. (Silmarillion 255)

Thrudd

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,271
  • Sucess Redefined
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #105 on: 29 Oct 2019, 07:49 »

OK, points taken for the Barry/Arthur confusion.  But that doesn't change my expressed opinion that Melon already has some kind of psychological damage based on some of her prior utterances and actions.
This brings up an interesting thought/observation.
It is so very easy to be diagnosed as some form of crazy but it is near impossible to counter that once someone makes that label and sticks it on you.
As for mental issues?
I liken that to the human genome - full of busted or weird bits and yet able to remain functional.
We are pretty much a MacGyver assembly of odds and ends that can be repurposed in any emergency to get out of an unforseen situation [mostly]
Logged
A good pun is it's own reword.
There is a difference between spare parts, extra parts and left over parts.

The Venn diagram  for Common Sense and Good Sense has very little, if any, overlap.

oddtail

  • Bling blang blong blung
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,200
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #106 on: 29 Oct 2019, 08:58 »

OK, points taken for the Barry/Arthur confusion.  But that doesn't change my expressed opinion that Melon already has some kind of psychological damage based on some of her prior utterances and actions.
This brings up an interesting thought/observation.
It is so very easy to be diagnosed as some form of crazy but it is near impossible to counter that once someone makes that label and sticks it on you.
As for mental issues?
I liken that to the human genome - full of busted or weird bits and yet able to remain functional.
We are pretty much a MacGyver assembly of odds and ends that can be repurposed in any emergency to get out of an unforseen situation [mostly]

This is gonna be about as legitimate as any "I've read this somewhere, but no, I don't have a link" since I read about it about 15 years ago, but there were actual experiments conducted where psychiatrists were admitted to mental hospitals under the pretense of having some (minor but somewhat disruptive) mental issues. IMMEDIATELY after being admitted, they stopped faking the symptoms.

Some took notes about their stay in the hospital, and hospital staff made a note that they were "engaging in writing activity" without ever asking what the patient was writing. Which, call me crazy, strikes me as the first thing a doctor should do? Scratch doctor - if I knew someone and they started taking extensive notes, human curiosity would drive me to ask "hey, whatcha writing?".

Some simply said they were psychiatrists and were fine and this was an experiment, and they were disbelieved or ignored altogether by the staff. Note that the symptoms they had been faking had nothing to do with delusions or a disconnect from reality, and this would be a pretty strange lie for someone who admitted themselves voluntarily to a hospital to tell.

The conclusion seemed to be that if a person is perceived as mentally ill by doctors and nurses and whatnot, it's impossible to convince them otherwise. It doesn't matter how "normal" you talk to them and behave, and even having specialist knowledge about the human mind is not enough.

Here's the kicker. The staff of a few other hospitals were TOLD a similar experiment would be conducted (e.g. some patients would really be doctors with no mental illness symptoms). The staff became extremely suspicious of many newly admitted people, to the point of being certain they were actually doctors. From what I remember (don't quote me on that), up to HALF of people admitted were believed to be faking it. Of course, the experiment consisted in NOT sending a single doctor to the hospitals. When people with legitimate mental problems - or at least people who were genuinely thought to have some - were implied by other circumstances to maybe actually be healthy, doctors second-guessed themselves a lot.

YMMV, but to me the notion that whether you're mentally healthy or not can largely depend on the completely subjective reasoning of a doctor and you're evaluated on the basis of expectations more than your actual behaviour? Pretty scary. And I'm sure it's changed, because medical knowledge has surely advanced in the decades since that experiment probably took place.

But y'know, still makes me uneasy. And that's just about misdiagnosis, as opposed to committing, medicating or crippling people because they were inconvenient to deal with - for personal, political, racist reasons. Which is well-documented in many countries' histories. Lobotomy was a way to cripple a person permanently in order to essentially make them less disruptive. It offered literally no benefits other than making the patient docile. And it received a Nobel Prize in medicine.
« Last Edit: 29 Oct 2019, 09:03 by oddtail »
Logged

oddtail

  • Bling blang blong blung
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,200
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #107 on: 29 Oct 2019, 09:08 »

I have the feeling that the notion that power “reveals” rather than corrupts is unfalsifiable.

Fundamentally? Yes. It's impossible to fully explain a person's motivations as opposed to actions, not without being able to read their mind.

But it's possible to point to earlier, less obvious behaviour and show that there is no apparent pattern of worsening behaviour when a person gets more power.

In other words, when a dictator has a history of acting like a power-hungry, petty tyrant, saying that power influenced their behaviour and restraint may be a stretch.

Besides, isn't "power corrupts" also unfalsifiable on a fundamental level? And it's a commonly accepted wisdom.
Logged

hedgie

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,382
  • No Pasarán!
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #108 on: 29 Oct 2019, 10:40 »

This is gonna be about as legitimate as any "I've read this somewhere, but no, I don't have a link" since I read about it about 15 years ago, but there were actual experiments conducted where psychiatrists were admitted to mental hospitals under the pretense of having some (minor but somewhat disruptive) mental issues. IMMEDIATELY after being admitted, they stopped faking the symptoms.
Okay, story time:

I was never a shrink conducting an experiment in a mental hospital, but I have been to a few.  The most recent times, I was even there voluntarily after the initial hold was over.  But the first time, there was this extremely corrupt doctor.  Granted, I was having some issues, which were compounded by having been really depressed/erratic after an argument with the young lady I was dating at the time, which did land me down in there.  But I played nice and figured that, hells, I'm going to be out in three days, no big worry.  And on the third day, I get called into the doctor who said that he planned on keeping me there another two weeks because he thought that I was a "danger to myself", and "gravely disabled" due to technically being homeless, although I don't think that really counts if one is working, and between that and savings is staying in a hotel every night until I found a new place.  People who were actually on the streets, and seeing people who weren't really there were getting thrown out nearly as fast as they came in.  But I had decent insurance, so they were pocketing about $3k/day to keep me in there.  I ended up talking to the patient's rights advocate, and she was filing the paperwork to get me out, and told me that several of the nurses had signed on, since they thought that there was no reason to keep me there.  My then-gf flirted with ending up inside herself, or at least charges when she threatened the doctor.  Okay, maybe that wasn't the best thing for my case.

What got me out within 24 hours of doing so was having her talk to her older sister, who had just passed the state bar about a week prior.  She didn't have a job in the field yet, and had never tried a case, but that didn't matter.  Just having someone who was able to practice law sending a nastygram, and I was out as soon as the ink on the paperwork dried.
Logged
"The highest treason in the USA is to say Americans are not loved, no matter where they are, no matter what they are doing there." -- Vonnegut

oddtail

  • Bling blang blong blung
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,200
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #109 on: 29 Oct 2019, 10:57 »

Thank you for sharing your story, hedgie.
Logged

hedgie

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,382
  • No Pasarán!
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #110 on: 29 Oct 2019, 11:05 »

NP.  The system here for both outpatient and inpatient is just terrible.  I still can't get the most effective medication that has the fewest side-effects for my anxiety because unless one pays a premium or has good coverage, doctors won't give out controlled substances. 

Edit: I know that I've ranted about this before, but honestly, I'd rather risk becoming a functional addict working with my doctor to manage things than completely non-functional because literally everything else out there either doesn't work, or makes me too sedated to function.
« Last Edit: 29 Oct 2019, 11:20 by hedgie »
Logged
"The highest treason in the USA is to say Americans are not loved, no matter where they are, no matter what they are doing there." -- Vonnegut

rtmq0227

  • Balloon animal serial killer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 87
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #111 on: 29 Oct 2019, 11:31 »

I still can't get the most effective medication that has the fewest side-effects for my anxiety because unless one pays a premium or has good coverage, doctors won't give out controlled substances.

To jump on your tangent, even WITH coverage and a doctor on your side, you can get shafted by the US medical system.  I was prescribed a medication once to assist with mental health issues, and was super excited to start this new medication as my doctor seemed to really have a handle on what was messed up in my headspace.  I was excited all the way until the pharmacist told me it would be $400 for my 1-month scrip.  I was still on my dad's health insurance at the time, but was living on my own and struggling financially.  It would have drained my savings to pick up the scrip and then I'd be unable to continue to pay for the scrip.  The problem?  There wasn't a generic alternative, and it wasn't viewed as a life-critical medication, so it was on the list of meds that insurance didn't cover.  So I had to walk away from the specific med that may have solved the problems I was struggling with and gotten my life started up again because someone didn't think the medicine should be covered.
Logged
The best lore starts as an off-handed comment or joke.

hedgie

  • Methuselah's mentor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,382
  • No Pasarán!
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #112 on: 29 Oct 2019, 11:57 »

That too.  I used to pay for my meds entirely out of pocket.  It was painful but doable.  Then one day, the cost of all my scrips went up from ~$200 to ~$700 a month pretty much overnight.  I found that by shifting them all to Costco, I saved about 80%, and one doesn't even need a membership to use the pharmacy there.
Logged
"The highest treason in the USA is to say Americans are not loved, no matter where they are, no matter what they are doing there." -- Vonnegut

Tova

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,725
  • Defender of the Terrible Denizens of QC
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #113 on: 29 Oct 2019, 20:50 »

I have the feeling that the notion that power “reveals” rather than corrupts is unfalsifiable.

Fundamentally? Yes. It's impossible to fully explain a person's motivations as opposed to actions, not without being able to read their mind.

But it's possible to point to earlier, less obvious behaviour and show that there is no apparent pattern of worsening behaviour when a person gets more power.

In other words, when a dictator has a history of acting like a power-hungry, petty tyrant, saying that power influenced their behaviour and restraint may be a stretch.

True. Power isn’t revealing anything in that case, though, is it?

Quote
Besides, isn't "power corrupts" also unfalsifiable on a fundamental level? And it's a commonly accepted wisdom.

Both theories are adequate explanations of observed changes in behaviour.

But if you want to claim that, in a specific instance, an individual was already “evil” but exhibited no behaviour or evidence of that evil, then fundamentally you are making a claim based on zero evidence. Unless you want to claim that all humans are evil. Which I don’t feel inclined agree with.
Logged
Yet the lies of Melkor, the mighty and the accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days. (Silmarillion 255)

Mr Intrepid

  • Bizarre cantaloupe phobia
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 216
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #114 on: 29 Oct 2019, 20:59 »

Hmmm... no new strip has been posted as yet.
Logged

BenRG

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,861
  • Boldly Going From The Back Seat!
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #115 on: 30 Oct 2019, 00:07 »

None on Patreon either, which is very unusual. Jeph also hasn't done anything on Twitter for almost a day.

He did say that he wasn't feeling well, though.
Logged
~~~~

They call me BenRG... But I don't know why!

Penquin47

  • Psychopath in a hockey mask
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 628
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #116 on: 30 Oct 2019, 00:10 »

This is gonna be about as legitimate as any "I've read this somewhere, but no, I don't have a link" since I read about it about 15 years ago, but there were actual experiments conducted where psychiatrists were admitted to mental hospitals under the pretense of having some (minor but somewhat disruptive) mental issues. IMMEDIATELY after being admitted, they stopped faking the symptoms.

Some took notes about their stay in the hospital, and hospital staff made a note that they were "engaging in writing activity" without ever asking what the patient was writing. Which, call me crazy, strikes me as the first thing a doctor should do? Scratch doctor - if I knew someone and they started taking extensive notes, human curiosity would drive me to ask "hey, whatcha writing?".

Some simply said they were psychiatrists and were fine and this was an experiment, and they were disbelieved or ignored altogether by the staff. Note that the symptoms they had been faking had nothing to do with delusions or a disconnect from reality, and this would be a pretty strange lie for someone who admitted themselves voluntarily to a hospital to tell.

The conclusion seemed to be that if a person is perceived as mentally ill by doctors and nurses and whatnot, it's impossible to convince them otherwise. It doesn't matter how "normal" you talk to them and behave, and even having specialist knowledge about the human mind is not enough.

Here's the kicker. The staff of a few other hospitals were TOLD a similar experiment would be conducted (e.g. some patients would really be doctors with no mental illness symptoms). The staff became extremely suspicious of many newly admitted people, to the point of being certain they were actually doctors. From what I remember (don't quote me on that), up to HALF of people admitted were believed to be faking it. Of course, the experiment consisted in NOT sending a single doctor to the hospitals. When people with legitimate mental problems - or at least people who were genuinely thought to have some - were implied by other circumstances to maybe actually be healthy, doctors second-guessed themselves a lot.

YMMV, but to me the notion that whether you're mentally healthy or not can largely depend on the completely subjective reasoning of a doctor and you're evaluated on the basis of expectations more than your actual behaviour? Pretty scary. And I'm sure it's changed, because medical knowledge has surely advanced in the decades since that experiment probably took place.

But y'know, still makes me uneasy. And that's just about misdiagnosis, as opposed to committing, medicating or crippling people because they were inconvenient to deal with - for personal, political, racist reasons. Which is well-documented in many countries' histories. Lobotomy was a way to cripple a person permanently in order to essentially make them less disruptive. It offered literally no benefits other than making the patient docile. And it received a Nobel Prize in medicine.

Here you go: Rosenhan Experiment
Logged

oddtail

  • Bling blang blong blung
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,200
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #117 on: 30 Oct 2019, 01:08 »

Thanks! Seems I misremembered some details (in my defense - again, that's from something I read once, and at least 15 years ago), but reading the wiki article, I'm pretty sure that's the experiment I read about.
Logged

BubblesWasRight

  • Notorious N.U.R.R.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #118 on: 05 Nov 2019, 05:48 »

It seems like Roko is having a time of it, so I found something that might cheer her up
Logged

Thrillho

  • Global Moderator
  • Awakened
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13,130
  • Tall. Beets.
Re: WCDT 4116-4120 (October 21st-25th, 2019)
« Reply #119 on: 05 Nov 2019, 12:43 »

It seems like Roko is having a time of it, so I found something that might cheer her up

It is genuinely unbelievable to me that you registered just to post this. I'm so happy.
Logged
In the end, the thing people will remember is kindness.
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up