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Poll

May gets a new chassis except...

... it's a newer model from the same line
... it's a model meant to compete with the original Philomena chassis
... it turns out she sucks at flying
... it can turn into a mini-car and she's offered a job as a racer
... it turns into a small boat or jetski
... it's the same model as CorpseWitch's old chassis
... it's the same model as Milli's
... it's modeled after Sven due to a comedic misunderstanding
... she's now called 'Swearberry' (same chassis as Melon's)
... it's a drider/Jorōgumo style
Sven is not a mooch

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Author Topic: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)  (Read 4281 times)

Gyrre

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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #100 on: 22 Jul 2020, 14:16 »

Ah, now I remember! I watched the documentary about that. Atari: Game Over. It was enjoyable.

Ummh - from what I remember of the time (which is just slightly after the videogame-industry crisis proper - got my C64 in '86, by which time the crisis was pretty much history), a lot of it was Jack Tramiel repeatedly being so far ahead of the curve he ended up out-competing himself (and a lot of other folk to boot). Pushed the C64 at Commodore, coined the nifty 'Home Computer' label for rigs that were basically the common ancestor of both the contemporary PC (Commodore C64/128, ZX Spectrum, Atari ST, Commodore Amiga and a few others, iirc) and almost pushed consoles of the market for half a decade - and just when his baby started taking off, he acquired Atari and the 2600 he'd just made forever obsolete?

Similar story with the Amiga/Atari ST competition in the latter half of the decade, I think I recall?

I have to admit I'm a bit peeved at accounts that appear to pretend that kids in the 80s and 90s only used consoles for gaming until the Intel-clone PCs entered peoples' living rooms. Far as I recall it, the 80s were very much the decade of the Home Computer.

Weren't console usually cheaper, though? It'd make them more common along with not having to know any programming.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #101 on: 22 Jul 2020, 14:47 »

I don't recall whether the doco itself really pretended home computers didn't exist, but it's been awhile since I saw it. Obviously the trailer hyped up the possibility that this one guy destroyed an industry. I think in the documentary itself they end up admitting, 'hmmm, nahhh, not really,' but it makes for a catchy trailer, no?

I grew up with a C64 myself, just to clarify.

Consoles may have been cheaper - I don't recall. But home computers like the C64 were insanely popular because parents could reassure themselves that they were getting their kids something educational rather than just a toy. The marketing definitely pushed the educational angle.

One of my fondest memories as a kid was visiting the Powerhouse Museum where they had at the time a room full of C64s and BASIC programming classes. Those were the days.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #102 on: 22 Jul 2020, 15:28 »

Quote
Consoles may have been cheaper - I don't recall. But home computers like the C64 were insanely popular because parents could reassure themselves that they were getting their kids something educational rather than just a toy. The marketing definitely pushed the educational angle


Yeah that was one part of the story, and for some kids, it even turned out to be true...

But another reason the 64 (and homecomputers in general) was so much more popular than the consoles was quite simply bootlegging - unlike consoles with their ROM cartridges, it came with adapter ports for rewritable storage media.Either a "datasette", or a 5.5 " Floppy disk drive. IIRC, it even had a serial port that supported acoustic couplers (the thingy's ppl used before modems).

So along with that 'toy' came the implicit possibility an entire ecosystem of fillicit hacking & trading acquiring tons of games more economically than your pocket would have allowed for.

Those crude toys turned into what we'd call platforms today - and they offered a lot of kids an accessible entry into coding, and some important early success experiences with something 'difficult' and intimidating.
« Last Edit: 22 Jul 2020, 15:42 by Case »
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #103 on: 22 Jul 2020, 18:47 »

I miss my Commodore 64 so much.  That thing taught my big brother to read, I swear.

Edited because new strip went up: I did NOT RECOGNIZE SVEN.  I have no idea who that guy is, but I do not recognize him.  If anything, when I first saw him, I thought it was Angus coming back to visit from New York.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #104 on: 22 Jul 2020, 19:22 »

Edited because new strip went up: I did NOT RECOGNIZE SVEN.  I have no idea who that guy is, but I do not recognize him.  If anything, when I first saw him, I thought it was Angus coming back to visit from New York.

Without his glasses, longer hair and smug look, he's kinda generic QC male character #1746. Especially since I don't think we've seen him since the last art-style shift(?).
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #105 on: 22 Jul 2020, 19:22 »

"Good news! Sven paid the whole cost of replacement!"

"What's the bad news?"

"The new body is a de-comissioned sex-bot."

"WHAT."

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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #106 on: 22 Jul 2020, 19:33 »

Is it just me or has Sven never been that consistent, style wise? Or were there just enough gaps inbetween to us not seeing the changes creep in slowly?
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #107 on: 22 Jul 2020, 19:45 »

There was a recent art shift, from what I can tell.  Didn't notice it until yesterday.  Everyone (humans, anyway) so far looks like they've been jr high-ified.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #108 on: 22 Jul 2020, 20:00 »

Am I overthinking it, or is that postscript text one of the most horrifically bad puns of all time? I honestly can't tell if he realized its meaning.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #109 on: 22 Jul 2020, 20:55 »

I'm glad Sven is considering the ethical ramifications. Perhaps he'll set a charity fund for this sort of thing so he can contribute more indirectly.

EDIT:
Seriously?!? Nobody but me thinks it'd be hilarious if May's new chassis turned into a slightly bigger blue one of these?

EDIT2: changed img size and ditched spoiler tag.
« Last Edit: 22 Jul 2020, 23:28 by Gyrre »
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #110 on: 22 Jul 2020, 21:14 »

Am I overthinking it, or is that postscript text one of the most horrifically bad puns of all time? I honestly can't tell if he realized its meaning.

Fairly sure it was intentional.

And yeah, the art shift... there just seems to be an increased incidence of characters looking more and more generically like each other.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #111 on: 22 Jul 2020, 21:22 »

I seriously wonder if Jeph just forgot about Sven's glasses. Oh well, good thing Hanners recognized him.

"...donating to something I might benefit directly from." My, so presumptuous!
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #112 on: 22 Jul 2020, 22:21 »

Honestly, I'm not seeing the ethical dilemma. Who exactly is harmed if Sven gives money to May? If it's not entirely altruistic, so what?

Now, we'd certainly have a case for conflict of interest if Sven had control of how the money's spent, but he doesn't. What gets done with the money is entirely up to May.

Likewise, there'd be an issue if Sven were donating someone else's money, making decisions based on his own self-interest. But since it's his money, that's not an issue.

And Farideh is right, May could have no interest in further shenanigans. Though honestly, I doubt that she's done experimenting, and Sven is convenient.

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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #113 on: 22 Jul 2020, 22:24 »

I miss my Commodore 64 so much.  That thing taught my big brother to read, I swear.

Aye, the breadbox was magic  *nods sagely*
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #114 on: 22 Jul 2020, 22:36 »

The way you say "still a collector's item" would, if I didn't know better, lead me to think you believed it is collectible in spite of being famously horrible, rather than because.

I probably should have phrased that as something more like "the canonical example of something that's collectible because it's horrible, rather than because of excellence."  And since I don't want to hear a nitpick of that phrase either, I'll make explicit that excellence is often enough a relative value with collector's items, rather than an absolute. Something may be collectible because it was excellent for its time, even if it's outdated today.

And no, I don't think ET's infamy is in any way Truthy. Leaving aside the commercial failure, it was an incredibly rushed project by a single programmer, and videos showing exactly how bad the gameplay was aren't difficult to find. The most you can say about ET's infamy as that many people accept it without doing research on it - but just because it's a popularly held opinion doesn't mean it's wrong, or that there's no basis for the reputation if you do dig.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #115 on: 22 Jul 2020, 23:18 »

Ah! Of course! Hannelore probably is out of the gossip loop. That confirms that Momo can keep a confidence and that May isn't telling everyone and anyone about her new relationship of sorts with Sven. To me, that suggests that it is more important to her than she's willing to say aloud. That it's making Sven hesitate because he doesn't want to appear to be 'buying an upgrade' for May suggests to me that maybe May is more important to him than he's willing to admit to himself just yet too.

I do get what Sven is saying though. I suppose, to him, it's like paying for extensive cosmetic surgery of his choice for a hook-up. Turning her into what he wants her to be. Far too close for his liking to implicitly taking ownership of someone whose independence of spirit is a key aspect of what makes her what she is.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #116 on: 22 Jul 2020, 23:23 »

And no, I don't think ET's infamy is in any way Truthy. Leaving aside the commercial failure, it was an incredibly rushed project by a single programmer, and videos showing exactly how bad the gameplay was aren't difficult to find. The most you can say about ET's infamy as that many people accept it without doing research on it - but just because it's a popularly held opinion doesn't mean it's wrong, or that there's no basis for the reputation if you do dig.

Truthy is probably a bad choice of word, but people who think it was not all that bad do exist. On the other hand, people who say "worst game ever" are generally using that phrase because the rest of the Internet does, not because they have played the game themselves. Which, let's face it, is a thing that happens.

To be honest, I'm probably going to regard "worst game ever" as hyperbolic regardless of what game you are describing.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #117 on: 23 Jul 2020, 00:03 »

There are copies of E.T. for the Atari 2600 on eBay for $1000.
While I take your point, that's not evidence of anything much unless they're actually selling at that price.

...oddly, it actually is

"plus $306 'additional costs'..." !??!?!??!

No idea...but it's not the only one selling for that high of a price listed
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #118 on: 23 Jul 2020, 00:11 »

Ah, now I remember! I watched the documentary about that. Atari: Game Over. It was enjoyable.

Ummh - from what I remember of the time (which is just slightly after the videogame-industry crisis proper - got my C64 in '86, by which time the crisis was pretty much history), a lot of it was Jack Tramiel repeatedly being so far ahead of the curve he ended up out-competing himself (and a lot of other folk to boot). Pushed the C64 at Commodore, coined the nifty 'Home Computer' label for rigs that were basically the common ancestor of both the contemporary PC (Commodore C64/128, ZX Spectrum, Atari ST, Commodore Amiga and a few others, iirc) and almost pushed consoles of the market for half a decade - and just when his baby started taking off, he acquired Atari and the 2600 he'd just made forever obsolete?

Similar story with the Amiga/Atari ST competition in the latter half of the decade, I think I recall?

I have to admit I'm a bit peeved at accounts that appear to pretend that kids in the 80s and 90s only used consoles for gaming until the Intel-clone PCs entered peoples' living rooms. Far as I recall it, the 80s were very much the decade of the Home Computer.

He bought Atari back, the ST was hsi baby...he pushed the Atari PCs and held steady as a distant 3rd or 4th before he stepped away. They continued to make both consoles and PCs before falling flat under his son
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #119 on: 23 Jul 2020, 00:12 »

I miss my Commodore 64 so much.  That thing taught my big brother to read, I swear.

Edited because new strip went up: I did NOT RECOGNIZE SVEN.  I have no idea who that guy is, but I do not recognize him.  If anything, when I first saw him, I thought it was Angus coming back to visit from New York.

He's the latest victim of Jeph's obsession with short hair...and the worst part is he doesn't have his glasses on either
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #120 on: 23 Jul 2020, 00:20 »

And Farideh is right, May could have no interest in further shenanigans. Though honestly, I doubt that she's done experimenting, and Sven is convenient.

Apart from sheer subversive curiosity, one of the main reasons she may have been willing was that her body was broken enough already that it didn't matter to her what she did with it.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #121 on: 23 Jul 2020, 00:48 »

I miss my Commodore 64 so much.  That thing taught my big brother to read, I swear.

Edited because new strip went up: I did NOT RECOGNIZE SVEN.  I have no idea who that guy is, but I do not recognize him.  If anything, when I first saw him, I thought it was Angus coming back to visit from New York.

He's the latest victim of Jeph's obsession with short hair...and the worst part is he doesn't have his glasses on either

He's been seen without glasses several times, and we actually got a reasoning for him cutting his hair.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #122 on: 23 Jul 2020, 00:49 »

Am I overthinking it, or is that postscript text one of the most horrifically bad puns of all time? I honestly can't tell if he realized its meaning.

Fairly sure it was intentional.

Uhmmmmmmh ...? :psyduck:
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #123 on: 23 Jul 2020, 01:17 »

Or not? I dunno, honestly. Not even sure I realise now.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #124 on: 23 Jul 2020, 01:59 »

One of my fondest memories as a kid was visiting the Powerhouse Museum where they had at the time a room full of C64s and BASIC programming classes. Those were the days.

I'm ancient enough to remember visiting the old Museum of Applied Arts and Sciences (before it moved to the Powerhouse) in the early '70s, and the thrill/frustration of trying to beat the primitive tic-tac-toe 'computer' they had there! (spoiler: it couldn't be beaten, but if you were pretty good you could force it to a stalemate)

C64s? That was, like, the future, maaan...
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #125 on: 23 Jul 2020, 02:17 »

I miss my Commodore 64 so much.  That thing taught my big brother to read, I swear.

Edited because new strip went up: I did NOT RECOGNIZE SVEN.  I have no idea who that guy is, but I do not recognize him.  If anything, when I first saw him, I thought it was Angus coming back to visit from New York.

I think he looks like mini-Elliot now.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #126 on: 23 Jul 2020, 02:26 »

"...donating to something I might benefit directly from." My, so presumptuous!
He didn't say that he will benefit directly from it. He said he might. There's nothing presumptuous about considering the possibility that something that occurred multiple times before might occur again. Also, there's nothing unethical about doing something mutually beneficial. Butt, if he's considering whether it's ethical to donate to this cause enhancing a fruitless pleasure, instead of using the money for greater benefits that are farther away, then I'd say it's immoral at least. Well, it depends on just how much pleasure he expects to get. Probably not enough to justify the investment, so donating it, though nice for May, may be unethical against himself. So then he's questioning whether the charitable contribution is for the charity, or for the enhanced potential sex.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #127 on: 23 Jul 2020, 02:30 »

Oh Sven. Time to fill out a Declarations of Interest form and refrain from participating in any such discussions in meetings.
 :-D

Also, thatís Sven?  :psyduck:
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #128 on: 23 Jul 2020, 04:24 »

So is there an ethical problem with him contributing to a fundraiser that he might derive some benefit from?

It's good that he's considered it, but I'm struggling to think of any.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #129 on: 23 Jul 2020, 04:28 »

So is there an ethical problem with him contributing to a fundraiser that he might derive some benefit from?

It's good that he's considered it, but I'm struggling to think of any.

What Jeph appears to be alluding to is a fear that May in a more strongly anthropomimetic chassis might make the sexual experience of her that much more pleasurable and that Sven doesn't want to even indirectly appear to be 'upgrading the sexbot' or make May feel an obligation to him.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #130 on: 23 Jul 2020, 05:31 »

Okay, so the second point did occur to me, but I figured easily solved via donating anonymously.

The first one... he would always feel as though the donation was selfishly motivated. I can understand that, but I feel that even if he were being 100% selfish in giving, it wouldn't be unethical. It just wouldn't be selfless. Taking some kind of credit for giving, on the other hand, would feel unethical. Again, anonymously giving and not telling anyone would solve that.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #131 on: 23 Jul 2020, 10:14 »

I just watched this interview with Jack Tramiel (interviewed by Gary Kildall) from 1985 about the new Atari ST last week: https://youtu.be/AMD2nF7meDI?t=260
« Last Edit: 23 Jul 2020, 10:23 by zmeiat_joro »
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #132 on: 23 Jul 2020, 18:08 »

Comic's out.

This can't end well. Remember the last time May was involved in a financial negotiation routed through a European country?
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #133 on: 23 Jul 2020, 18:13 »

Either Hannelore doesn't understand cash, or understands it too well. Any slight unique feature of the bill (like the serial number), and it may be traced back---so better safe, proxyn the transaction?

Everyone (humans, anyway) so far looks like they've been jr high-ified.
So he finally begins to heed Emily Partridge's advice?
« Last Edit: 23 Jul 2020, 18:19 by N.N. Marf »
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #134 on: 23 Jul 2020, 18:19 »

Yeah, Hanners, that's a LITTLE excessive.

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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #135 on: 23 Jul 2020, 18:24 »

Comic's out.

This can't end well. Remember the last time May was involved in a financial negotiation routed through a European country?


When was that? It doesn't ring a bell (not surprising, given the amount of comics that Jeph has created so far).
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #136 on: 23 Jul 2020, 18:24 »

Luxembourg? I think Jeph meant Liechtenstein. Although Luxembourg can work too.
« Last Edit: 23 Jul 2020, 18:35 by zmeiat_joro »
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #137 on: 23 Jul 2020, 18:31 »

Hannelore takes the concept of protecting PII very seriously indeed.

It's good that Sven takes the possible emotional ramifications of his donation into account, and that he doesn't expect May to tumble back into bed with him out of gratitude. That shows he's growing as a person.
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alc40

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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #138 on: 23 Jul 2020, 18:32 »

Comic's out.

This can't end well. Remember the last time May was involved in a financial negotiation routed through a European country?


When was that? It doesn't ring a bell (not surprising, given the amount of comics that Jeph has created so far).
When she tried to steal money to buy a drone, the process involved a Swiss bank.
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zmeiat_joro

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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #139 on: 23 Jul 2020, 18:38 »

I can't quite believe I'm discussing how to best establish a shell corporation, on a forum discussing an online comic, and _then_ it gets recursive.
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Farideh

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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #140 on: 23 Jul 2020, 18:56 »

When she tried to steal money to buy a drone, the process involved a Swiss bank.


Aha, thanks! Your archive-fu skills are amazing :)
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Tova

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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #141 on: 23 Jul 2020, 18:56 »

Thank you, Hannelore.

When all you have is an extraordinarily high-tech pervasive and powerful space hammer ...
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Tova

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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #142 on: 23 Jul 2020, 19:23 »

BTW, I will feel a little let down if we don't get a party featuring a comically oversized novelty check.
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RevEddie

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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #143 on: 23 Jul 2020, 19:49 »

And Hanners is sounding like her mum again...
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sitnspin

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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #144 on: 23 Jul 2020, 20:33 »

Belize is your best choice for money laundering and shell corporations. You can complete the whole process in a matter of minutes.

Not that I know from experience or anything.  :angel:
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #145 on: 23 Jul 2020, 21:24 »

And Hanners is sounding like her mum again...

ďRelease the virus.Ē

Unfortunately, when she did, it entered our world.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #146 on: 23 Jul 2020, 22:27 »

Truthy is probably a bad choice of word, but people who think it was not all that bad do exist. On the other hand, people who say "worst game ever" are generally using that phrase because the rest of the Internet does, not because they have played the game themselves. Which, let's face it, is a thing that happens.

To be honest, I'm probably going to regard "worst game ever" as hyperbolic regardless of what game you are describing.

Oh, definitely. "Worst game ever" is pretty hard to quantify, and I wasn't thinking of E.T. in those terms. I was merely thinking "really memorably bad."

I'm having a bit of trouble with the idea that some people think it's not that bad, from what I've seen. I'm not sure I want to have a conversation with someone who thinks that way, either. I've had enough frustrating discussions about games in the past, like the guy who felt Civilization was a terrible game because living in mud huts and never advancing to agriculture wasn't a viable strategy. Some opinions are just too... alien.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #147 on: 23 Jul 2020, 22:47 »

OK, now Jeph has spelled out the ethical dilemma. Which doesn't really fit the language used in the prior comic, but I get it now. It's not something that crossed my mind because, well, I don't think in terms of using gifts as leverage.

I'm not sure it's automatically a problem anyway. To take a personal example, I got married shortly after college, and I paid off her student loans. There was no "sex for money" dynamic going on, we were married, and I considered her financial issues to be my financial issues. A few years later she had an affair and we got divorced, but there was no expectation that she'd repay me.

Sven and May aren't married, or even in a relationship. It's not even clear that they're really friends. They don't really hang out aside from banging. Still, contributing to a pool of money, along with a lot of other people, shouldn't make things weird. It's pretty clearly on the "things friends do for friends" side of the line. If he outright bought May a new body, or contributing an excessive amount, that might be awkward. But only because Sven thought of it at all, and because May's pretty suspicious of everyone.

There are positive aspects of letting her know, too. May would benefit from knowing that a lot of people cared enough to contribute, and the more names on that list the better. They don't need to have dollar amounts attached to the names.
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #148 on: 23 Jul 2020, 23:14 »

Hannelore? You're trying to protect Sven's privacy. You're not trying to launder the mass illegal sale of weapons, technology or conflict diamonds!

You know, her expressions in panels 1 and 2 indicates that Hannelore ships Svey. She really, really ships it. Possibly more than the two principals in that relationship. This could easily lead to trouble because I always shudder a little at the thought of Hannelore, with her resources, her intelligence and what she learned from her parents about problem-solving, genuinely attempting to help.

This is the second time recently that Hannelore has let her inner Beatrice out to play. It's almost reflexive to her to behave like a Corporate Dark God. She's indicated interest in the Robot Support Group and one wonders just what a force of nature her skills and Roko's drive might be!

I do hope that, one day, Sven tells May all about his mixed feelings. May's response might surprise them both!
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Re: WCDT strips 4311-4315 (20-25 July 2020)
« Reply #149 on: 23 Jul 2020, 23:16 »

Truthy is probably a bad choice of word, but people who think it was not all that bad do exist. On the other hand, people who say "worst game ever" are generally using that phrase because the rest of the Internet does, not because they have played the game themselves. Which, let's face it, is a thing that happens.

To be honest, I'm probably going to regard "worst game ever" as hyperbolic regardless of what game you are describing.

Oh, definitely. "Worst game ever" is pretty hard to quantify, and I wasn't thinking of E.T. in those terms. I was merely thinking "really memorably bad."

I'm having a bit of trouble with the idea that some people think it's not that bad, from what I've seen. I'm not sure I want to have a conversation with someone who thinks that way, either. I've had enough frustrating discussions about games in the past, like the guy who felt Civilization was a terrible game because living in mud huts and never advancing to agriculture wasn't a viable strategy. Some opinions are just too... alien.
Isnít ET qualified to be objectively bad because the thing was so badly written itís nearly impossible to actually progress, never mind complete? Like thereís a bug that is incredibly easy to trigger that locks it up completely requiring a restart, and no save states?
In terms of terrible gameplay though, I personally reckon itís Ďbeatení to worst place by Superman 64 but ymmv.

As for Civ, I think your friend just wasnít trying hard enough; someone just beat Civ VI without any cities at all, never mind hutsÖ
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