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Author Topic: WCDT strips 4346 to 4350 (7th September to 11th September 2020)  (Read 32265 times)

Gyrre

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I think that May just doesn't fit into her old clothes anymore, so she CAN'T zip up her pants 🙂

I noticed that her t-shirt is now a tank top. Not sure, but I suspect a little more fabric might have needed to be removed to accommodate for the larger volume (not a euphemism) of her new chassis's torso. I'd have to go back a few pages to before the switch to get a better idea though.

May’s voice sounds different to me now.

Is her new voice... higher? XD

Body size and structure generally has an effect on the voice. Just like testosterone levels and - to lesser extend - estrogen levels.
I think you can generally 'hear' these differences, meaning your mind has subconsciously learned that differently sized people sound different etc.
I wouldn't be surprised if in females, the ratio of female to male sex-hormone levels have a noticeable enough effect on pitch (or timbre) that we would be able to pick up on that too.

May is suddenly both taller and more 'fem' in her appearance. Which we may both associate with subtle differences in voice appearance, causing the inner voice which our brain chooses to change.
Not saying that the base rules of a 'tall voice' or 'fem voice' always hold up, there are plenty of exceptions. But I think they hold up enough for our brains to set certain expectations. -- The same expectations that cause you to be 'surprised' if someone suddenly has a difference voice than you'd expect for their appearance.


On another note, Lemon is not really good at reading the room and adjusting her counsel to the person present is she?
On body structure and voice; if robots use a simulated voice box, a taller model would likely have a deeper voice because of the larger resonance volume. But if they use a purely synthesised voice it may not change at all.
Personally I suspect May just switched from synthesised to simulated and everyone is going to notice something a little “off” eventually.

As for Lemon, I sort of got the impression that she believes May is deflecting, for which the standard tactic is to continue on the original track regardless.

And remember, body size isn't just in reference to height.

I'm 5'5" and my natural voice[1] is a baritone bordering on bass. Mostly thanks having a large frame (not a euphemism) despite my height. Honestly, it's a wonder my voice isn't deeper thanks to my barrel-chest and particularly broad shoulders[2]. To put things in perspective, I have to wear an American 2XL labcoat at work so I can actually move my arms forward beyond a ~10° angle without ripping the seams[3]. I can pull the front of the labcoat forward ~10 inches (~25.5cm) from my chest.

[1] I tend to up-pitch slightly because many people misinterpret my natural voice as sounding angry, aggressive, annoyed, or sarcastic. Most of my coworkers have blown out their lower and mid-range hearing, so I often have to up-pitch even further when on the factory floor.
[2]Yes, clothes shopping is a pain. Shoe shopping is worse.
[3] I've ripped out the shoulder seems on a shirt once in high school (grade 11) and once in college. Hopefully never again.

EDI: removing some overshare.
« Last Edit: 10 Sep 2020, 14:20 by Gyrre »
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snubnose

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I get the vague notion that May likes her new body...  :meh:



I'm 5'5" and my natural voice[1] is a baritone bordering on bass.
That depends mainly upon the length of your vocal cords, and not much else.
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I dunno if she will have a dissociative episode, but there's every chance that at least she will need to come to terms with the idea that having a new chassis won't solve all of her life's problems.
I don't think it's May that will have the dissociative episode... take a close look at the last panel.
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brasca

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...wondering if May is being set up for a fall...

If she pulls these antics with Bubbles it could be a literal fall.  May is bigger, but not Bubbles size.
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Gyrre

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I get the vague notion that May likes her new body...  :meh:



I'm 5'5" and my natural voice[1] is a baritone bordering on bass.
That depends mainly upon the length of your vocal cords, and not much else.
So my barrel chest doesn't factor in?
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hedgie

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In the QC 'verse, an AI could have a chest made from an actual barrel.
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Gyrre

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In the QC 'verse, an AI could have a chest made from an actual barrel.
Caskidy
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Farideh

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Comic's up.

I hope someone has a paperclip that they can use to reset Roko.
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Good call, jesslc.

What happens now? Roko's dissociation problems clearly aren't getting any better. Does she go to Yay? Does she find a therapy group? Does she get another body? How's she even going to get out of the store if she can barely stand?
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Thrudd

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I noticed that the effect initiated with the may Hug and the mention of butt holes.
Is that feature something new to her chassis that wasn't available on the old one?
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MrNumbers

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I think she's just having a crisis over the fact that May immediately had no problems with getting a new body, no angst, just got super happy about it. Which wasn't her experience.
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Drunken Old Man

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I need to hug Roko now and I am physically incapable of doing so.
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The big problem for me with this Roko plot is that this should be fixable - if the level of access to the AI's software existed for human consciousness, treating most IRL mental health issues would be like setting a bone in plaster (at worst).

However, the stuff it's a metaphor for IRL can't be fixed IRL, so it can't be fixed in-plot lest the IRL problems get trivialised. It's a plot wall.
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Gnabberwocky

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But the AI mind is constantly changing, just like the human mind. This means that any given fix may not be permanent. Also, if Yay is refusing to help Roko even though they know she's having trouble, it must be a HUGE sanctity-of-mind violation. Would you get a bone set in plaster if the doctor gained knowledge of all of your deepest secrets, desires, and fears? Even if you agreed, would the doctor be okay with that?

TL;DR: I imagine it's much more than a simple software fix.
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Normally I'm meh about cliffhangers, but now I really want to know what's up with Roku.

I think she's just having a crisis over the fact that May immediately had no problems with getting a new body, no angst, just got super happy about it. Which wasn't her experience.

Well, the two also had very different New Body experiences.  Roku's previous body was accidentally crushed out of nowhere, and she was forced into a new body for continued autonomy/survival.  Roku had formed a bond/sense of self with her previous body, and even though her current one is an upgrade of her previous body, it didn't (doesn't?) feel like her own, so there was/is adjustment going on.  May on the other hand was in a body she hated from Day 1 and was ready to do anything to get out of it.  She complained about its issues, had to do a lot of maintenance to keep it functioning, and is a safe bet that she never formed a sense of self around it.  Other than wanting to be a fighter jet, we don't know what May's former body was (or if she even had one), and it's entirely possible she only existed within a server, so never had a physical sense of self, hence why she's taking so quick to her new body.
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Tova

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The big problem for me with this Roko plot is that this should be fixable - if the level of access to the AI's software existed for human consciousness, treating most IRL mental health issues would be like setting a bone in plaster (at worst).

What level of access to AI software are you imagining exists?

As a point of comparison, bugs in today's neural networks can in fact be difficult to diagnose and fix. This is because of the way this type of software is given data and learns how to classify it in order to give the right results. Precisely what decisions it makes after it is trained is opaque to the developer. If it goes wrong, troubleshooting can be very difficult. Especially when it could be the code, it could be the model, or it could be the quality of the data.

And this type of software is Lego (tm) compared to the level of intelligence displayed by QC AIs, which are emergent lifeforms, not designed software with well-understood algorithms.



This is accurate.
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Case

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My guess is that May will get really tired, really quickly, of continually telling others: "Yes, it's really <expletive> me".

My guess is that this will not be a problem at all.
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Shremedy

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You think in this world there has to be an IT procurement officer who is in serious trouble with his boss when they find out he bought 10,000+ licences of something NOT quite Microsoft "Office"...
and then finding out Office Excel and Orifice Expel are similar sounding too. :P
and Edge and Stream would have different meanings below the robot waist too.

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Elder Sign

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What happens now? Roko's dissociation problems clearly aren't getting any better. Does she go to Yay? Does she find a therapy group? Does she get another body? How's she even going to get out of the store if she can barely stand?

"Hello, I.T.  Have you tried turning it off and on again?"

I need to hug Roko now and I am physically incapable of doing so.

I can only concur wholeheartedly.  Roko's been by far the most sympathy-prompting member of the cast for a long time now.  She deserves a lot more love than she's been receiving.
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Shremedy

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My guess is that May will get really tired, really quickly, of continually telling others: "Yes, it's really <expletive> me".
Robot chassis seem to have wifi and/or Bluetooth enabled.  Her MAC address has changed, but her SSID  (probably) still reads "MAY" (unless it's FUCKING_MAY_YOU_FUCKER).  It's probably hard-wired to make robot ID's trackable.  So, other robots will be able to ID her as soon as they're in receiving range.  Humans, on the other hand...?
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shanejayell

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Roko needs a lay down...

the silent firefly

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If she has much money to spare, considering she works in a convenience store.

good point but i could see that changing.


I'm not sure that we will. Body change or no, May is still May and I suspect that she'll still have the same basic tastes. That said, I do wonder if she'll get some 'show off' clothes for when she particularly wants to impress someone.

another good point but i could see her enjoying the experience of showing off a bit.


this whole thing potentially opens up a lot of doors for May. we don't really know but can probably assume that a good portion of her income was previously spent keeping her body functioning. that money will be freed up now and she has the options of spending a bit more than usual or creating some savings... or perhaps a bit of both. May will still be May but it will be interesting to see how this new body affects her mental state and attitude. of course she'll still come off like a low brass player, dick and fart jokes and all, but maybe she'll be a bit less combative and overall a tad bit more positive.

she will still have her legal limitations on certain kinds of employment but a good-looking and fully functional body should definitely give her some better opportunities, particularly if it comes paired with a better attitude.
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the silent firefly

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ps  poor Roko

coming to terms with having a butthole can be traumatic
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Gyrre

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Here's the thing about all of this; Roko is having her dissociative episode in one of the best places possible. Another embodied AI who had issues with a previous chassis is there. And --for what it's worth-- so is Lemon. We may see what level of competency she truly has. Or May and Ana (I think it was 'Ana') could be a major help.
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Ama, I think. 
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Tova

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Roko needs a lay down...

Do you mean she needs a lie down, or she needs someone to lay down some phat beats?  :claireface:
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Maybe she needs to get laid.
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Farideh

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She tried, but Pintsize wasn't right for her
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I doubt May will ever have dissociative issues. II4C, in contrast to Roko, she wasn't born embodied, so her "true self" isn't bound to a physical form. Or at least not to a humanoid form.
I wonder at what point she knew she was female: before, while or after being Dale's virtual companion. But bring a blue robot (chick) seems to stem from her old body.


Poor Roko though. Whether this episode has been triggered by May feeling right at home, putting spotlight on her (new) body wise, or the orifice talk remains yet to be seen.
Makes me wonder now whether the new Philomena model has some new hardware features Roko doesn't really care about or didn't yet get to look at in detail. If left uninitialized, that could lead to a constant "new smell", which could making feel at home hard.
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Maybe she needs to get laid.

Hopefully the right guy rolls along. Not someone who loafs around. Having a lot of dough probably helps.
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SeattleCrochetWoman

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I think that May just doesn't fit into her old clothes anymore, so she CAN'T zip up her pants 🙂

Yes, she must’ve had pants with zippers to clothe her old body. Of course she knows how to operate a zipper.
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Case

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Maybe she needs to get laid.

Hopefully the right guy rolls along. Not someone who loafs around. Having a lot of dough probably helps.

Those are aweful puns and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Please do go on ...
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Tova

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She just needs to find someone who can give her what she kneads.
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Yet the lies of Melkor, the mighty and the accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days. (Silmarillion 255)

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Oof, well, its a good thing this is happening with Lemon around. She may actually have previous experience of AIs going through this experience and either know the right therapy groups or (and this interests me) she may know the right software adjustments needed. Then it becomes a debate on whether Roko literally wants her mind changed in some ways so that she doesn't feel this disassociation anymore. Would she even be the same woman anymore? She's asked Yay to do it but probably knew they wouldn't do it. However, if the opportunity was offered with the actual likelihood of it happening? It could lead to an interesting parable about the effect of psychiatric medicines on the patient's personality.

I think she's just having a crisis over the fact that May immediately had no problems with getting a new body, no angst, just got super happy about it. Which wasn't her experience.

Interesting suggestion. Is she currently disassociating or is she having a different kind of breakdown over whether she's defective, given that May is completely okay but she is having side-effects from a much less radical chassis change? Oddly enough, I think that Lemon is going to find out that there are problems because the change was so subtle.
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Could May's new body have its own suite of nanobots that have just infected Roko?
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Mr Intrepid

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I'm wondering if the root cause lies in the similarities  between Roko's old and new chassis.  There's just enough difference that conflicts arise between the two that conflicts arise and the disassociation kicks in.
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I'm wondering if the root cause lies in the similarities  between Roko's old and new chassis.  There's just enough difference that conflicts arise between the two that conflicts arise and the disassociation kicks in.
other than the relative trauma of the process, mentioned earlier, it does seem like a possibility, from the outside. You could forget that whole thing happened, just occasionally.
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Gyrre

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Could May's new body have its own suite of nanobots that have just infected Roko?
Lord willing, she's not the QC equivalent of Unity.
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So my barrel chest doesn't factor in?
Well, I dont know how much it factors in, but its definitely not decisive. The main factor is definitely the vocal cords.

The human voice works much more like a string instrument than a flute or trumpet. If you give a violin a larger body, but keep the strings at the same length, tension, material and diameter/weight, it will sound different but it wont change much in regards to tone height.

For example, in ages of old eunuchs have been sopranos and altists. Despite having the body of grown men, they still had high pitched voices like a woman or child.

Likewise tall women still have female voices.

Likewise short asian men still have male voices. I know a guy who is about 1.50m and he still has a male voice. Heck the actor Peter Dinklage is 1.32m and he still has a male voice.

Likewise when people get more fat, or get more muscular, or get larger lungs from living at higher altitudes, their voices dont get lower.

Likewise, when you expand your range of possible tones you can sing, a big part is making your vocal cords stronger through constant training, so you can raise their tension. The possibilities to expand your range downwards are much more limited; you can really only learn technique, but not train any muscles for that.

So yes, the vocal cords are the main factor for this.
« Last Edit: 11 Sep 2020, 02:19 by snubnose »
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snubnose

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What level of access to AI software are you imagining exists?

As a point of comparison, bugs in today's neural networks can in fact be difficult to diagnose and fix. [...]
Well, you basically already explain why yourself, but the choice of words "difficult" is really incorrect. Its simply impossible, not merely difficult.

Unless your neural network is really tiny and the task trivial, they are completely impossible to actually diagnose, because you cannot possibly find out what the AI is really doing, and therefore you cannot actually fix anything.

All you can do is stuff like trying to train the AI more hoping it gets better at its job, add even more circutry to the AI so it gets more "intelligent", or train a completely new AI from scratch hoping it works better this time.
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traroth

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Maybe she needs to get laid.

Hopefully the right guy rolls along. Not someone who loafs around. Having a lot of dough probably helps.

Those are aweful puns and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Please do go on ...

More like awful buns...
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Is Roko having a dissociative episode because May made her think of her butthole?  Oh, crap.  (Pun maybe intended)  :P
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I think it's more triggered by May's casual comfort with (and to some extent disregard for) her new chassis. She is acting like she got a new car or a shiny piece of tech, treating it as a new plaything, and reminding Roko that the chassis is not truly part of the person. Thence stems her disassociative reaction.

In other words, she was reminded that her butthole is not her.
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artag

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I have no problem with the writing. I just don't like Renee that much. She speaks bluntly and almost aggressively in most situations, which is often not a good thing and results in hurt feelings. It's definitely in character--I just don't agree with said character.
[/quote]

Gotta say that I really like Renee. For much the same reasons :) Not the 'hurt' but perhaps, but I don't think that happens so often. I just like that she says how she sees it. And is actually a REALLY nice person - look at her tolerance of Brun's accomodation problems, and desire to help people (even if  they don't know how to use it).

Here's my yay for Renee :)
 
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artag

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In other words, she was reminded that her butthole is not her.

I was actually thinking maybe she's realised the butthole isn't just decorative (!) and is somewhat fazed by the idea. I'd forgotten about the disassociative stuff.

Remember that Roko was comfortable in her old body until it was crushed. May, on the other hand, hated hers. That would make it a lot easier to make the transiiton - Roko's was forced, May's was very much wanted.
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Carl-E

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So my barrel chest doesn't factor in?
Well, I dont know how much it factors in, but its definitely not decisive. The main factor is definitely the vocal cords.

Barrel chestedness may contribute to resonance, although that comes more from the sinuses.  Its real contribution is to the volume of the lungs - this may contribute to volume in general, but also in sustained length of a phrase between breaths. 

Do you find yourself speaking in run-on sentences?  When singing, can you hold a long note for several measures without cheating a breath?  Or do you find people reminding you to use your "indoor voice"? 



No? 

Well, so much for that theory...  :roll:
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... and now we know why Lemon is in the next room :P
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sitnspin

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I've always had a deep voice for a woman. Enough so to cause some people confusion. I grew six inches between my mid to late teens and my early 20's.  I didn't notice much a change in the octave of my voice. So, anecdotally, I don't think size has much to do with it.

I mean, look at Mike Tyson.
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@syleegrrl

cybersmurf

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Is Roko having a dissociative episode because May made her think of her butthole?  Oh, crap.  (Pun maybe intended)  :P

Pun, or don't pun. There is no maybe. Own them. You're the pundit.


I'm wondering if the root cause lies in the similarities  between Roko's old and new chassis.  There's just enough difference that conflicts arise between the two that conflicts arise and the disassociation kicks in.

Definetly a strong work hypothesis. Depends though, some AIs may have it easier being closer to the one before, while other may have a harder time. Maybe Roko is susceptible to that in general, and "straying too far" from before makes it worse.



Maybe she needs to get laid.

Hopefully the right guy rolls along. Not someone who loafs around. Having a lot of dough probably helps.

Those are aweful puns and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Please do go on ...

More like awful buns...

Please, don't open Pundora's Box ...
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cesium133

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Did you hear the one about when Olive Garden added genitalia to bread? It was unlimited bread's dicks.
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The nerdy comic I update sometimes: Cesium Comics

Unofficial character tag thingy for QC
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