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Best date format for the WCDT titles?

4th - 8th, January 2021
4th to 8th of January, 2021
January 4th to 8th, 2021
Jan 4th - 8th, 2021
4th Jan - 8th Jan, 2021
2021 Jan 4th - Jan 8th
Jan 4th - Jan 8th, 2021
Jan 4 - 8, 2021
other [feel free to type it out]
I miss when it was the comic numbers that were in the parentheses.
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Author Topic: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)  (Read 4878 times)

DaiJB

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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #50 on: 05 Jan 2021, 06:35 »

Hello Apricot!  :-)

It must be kind of hard to avoid eavesdropping* on this conversation going on behind her head...
Now, will Apricot be somewhat Momo-like, and be squirming a little in embarrassment over what she's forced to overhear?
Or more Melon-like, and therefore a total ditz...  :-D 
In which case, be prepared for some totally random comment next.

*(I wonder if AI's in this universe can "shut off" or otherwise avoid hearing private conversations? )
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Gyrre

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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #51 on: 05 Jan 2021, 08:12 »

IDK. I might be misreading her expression in the lower left corner, but I think she might have some mild discomfort but is trying to keep her smile? IDK.


Also, fruit sister confirmed?
[I really hope I didn't screw up any plans regarding Melon's relatives with those fanarts.]
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #52 on: 05 Jan 2021, 08:18 »

*(I wonder if AI's in this universe can "shut off" or otherwise avoid hearing private conversations? )

Technically, humans have discriminatory hearing at that level; we just need an alternate audio stream onto which to focus our minds. Apricot just needs to connect to iTunes or something and stream an album.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #53 on: 05 Jan 2021, 14:22 »

Jokes aside, if I was to imagine Robot Jail, I would suspect that they have a way to nullify an AI's personality and emotions. Basically turning them into a 'machine' that they then have perform similar calculations to those that supercomputers do. Maybe they would leave just enough 'intelligent' thought for the AI to feel that they are missing 99% of what made them, well, THEM.

The end result being that the AI understands that if they repeat the offense, the prison has no problem turning them back into a simple computer, while their 'consciousness, rails against an invisible wall as time passes.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #54 on: 05 Jan 2021, 16:24 »

Kids with no filters sometimes are the best and cheapest therapy.

For "adults" without filters? You might be onto smth here ...  :-D

I'm guessing that the tone of May's reaction is less "can't explain it in relatable terms to a human experience" and more "Kid, you literally have no idea what I have gone through, both in prison and out of it and its mildly insulting that you think you know what it was like".

It was bound to happen, but Sam's sincerity and empathy is actually something that I don't think anyone else has shown her before. Sam is trying, which is better than ignoring the past and not addressing it because you don't want to hurt May's feelings or you're apathetic to it.

I agree with both of you. Sam is a kid, and she's sincere in her wish to form an empathetic connection by trying to understand someone else's experience via extrapolation from her own. She hasn't yet learned that this can be ... anything from helpful to anoying or hurtful, and she'll hopefully never get to the point where she can truly understand May's experience. An adult - even a 'nominal' one - should take that into account when reacting to something so simultaneously touching and woefully inadaequate. But May also has a right to express her feelings when forced into a conversation she did not want - and whether by design or dumb luck, she expresses them in a way that the sting in her words goes right over Sam's head.

Bit like watching two shitfaced porcupines crossing a river on a kid's dinghie and actually making it to the other side.
« Last Edit: 05 Jan 2021, 16:55 by Case »
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #55 on: 05 Jan 2021, 18:31 »

New strip up.

Of COURSE Robot Jail was built by Robots to appease humans...

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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #56 on: 05 Jan 2021, 19:04 »

New strip up.

Of COURSE Robot Jail was built by Robots to appease humans...

Were they wrong?  Considering the advantages AIs possess as well as a rich fictional history of AIs turning against humans itís a reasonable concern.  In this webcomic there are a few instances of AIs joking about stealing nuclear launch codes.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #57 on: 05 Jan 2021, 19:11 »

Of COURSE Robot Jail was built by Robots to appease humans...

To be fair, in May's case she did embezzle funds in an attempt to buy a military aircraft. Even though her intention was to just be in in a body that was able to fly, from a human perspective, that's a nightmare. You have an AI that has enough understanding to engage in a criminal activity (subtle skimming of funds from millions of customers), who then went through presumably black market channels in an attempt to buy the plane. As humans have this habit of thought exercises and how a chain of events might play out, no one is going to say "Nah, she just wants to fly in the clouds". Its going to be "Oh shit, there's a rogue AI in the body of a plane. What if she held an airliner hostage? What if she wanted to kill someone?" Because they don't know why May wants the plane, just that she wants it is enough to be afraid.

And make no mistake, considering how long AI have been a part of the QCverse, those elder AI were probably well aware what could happen if one of their kind was seen as rogue, because they are still so new to the world, that every single one of those AI is shaping how Humanity views its creation. They're as afraid of rogue AI as humans would be. Robot Jail is a clear statement to Humanity - "We will deal with our problems and deal with them severely".
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #58 on: 05 Jan 2021, 20:35 »

"Imagine a infinite space, but you can't move, along with a immense perception of time passing."

Quote from: Strong Bad
Email is a like a prison. A prison with no walls. And no toilet.

I'm actually a bit surprised by this backstory. I always assumed robots had a special jail because robots can be disembodied, and thus can be efficiently and cheaply incarcerated, and you don't really want to try and imprison some robot bodies, like Punchbot. You know, practical reasons, not the invention of a cabal of elder AI's.

May's glossing over one thing, which is that she stole money, and tried to obtain a combat chassis illegally, both of which are things society can't tolerate. Stealing also hurts other people.

That sort of thing has to be discouraged somehow. May doesn't seem to get that she did anything wrong, so just explaining things to her wasn't going to work. Punishment's the only thing that seems like it would deter her from trying to do it again. I think punishment sucks as a learning mechanism, but I'm not really sure what else you can do with sentients like May.

Once you're settled on punishment as your deterrent, then you can get into the details of what's acceptable and proportionate, and what's not.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #59 on: 05 Jan 2021, 20:37 »

Were they wrong?  Considering the advantages AIs possess as well as a rich fictional history of AIs turning against humans itís a reasonable concern.

I think humans should be worried about about Spookybot / Yay Newfriend.
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hedgie

Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #60 on: 05 Jan 2021, 21:02 »

Iíve already seen some great hypotheses as to how prison works for AIs, and I do have one of my own, which could, of course include aspects of others.  Given how recent in-universe, true AIs running around is, May couldnít have been locked up for a long time chronologically, and itís highly likely that the prosecutors/judge would have nailed her to the wall.  So Iím thinking, itís like that DS9 episode ďHard TimeĒ, where OíBrian ends up serving 20 years in a matter of hours, and that perceived time is far longer than has actually occured.

Apologies if someone else pointed this out first, I probably missed it.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #61 on: 05 Jan 2021, 21:17 »

New strip up.

Of COURSE Robot Jail was built by Robots to appease humans...

Were they wrong?  Considering the advantages AIs possess as well as a rich fictional history of AIs turning against humans itís a reasonable concern.  In this webcomic there are a few instances of AIs joking about stealing nuclear launch codes.

[Insert one of a myriad of quotes about the horrible things frightened humans are capable of doing]
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #62 on: 05 Jan 2021, 21:29 »

To further answer the question of "what should we do with criminal AIs," I feel like we need to know more about Robot Jail and what's so terrible about it. That would allow us to devise more humane solutions. It's clear that whatever RJ is, it's overly harsh and has effects long past a prisoner's release. But in fairness, May did steal a considerable amount of money to purchase a weaponized strike zone, and the prosecutors didn't know her motivation. It makes sense that she'd receive some punishment. Does she deserve incomprehensible torture for a near-infinite amount of time? Of course not. Should she have gotten some community service hours in the form of unpaid processor rent-out? Sounds a lot more fair, considering she never actually hurt anyone (money was most likely returned to wherever she stole it from).
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #63 on: 05 Jan 2021, 21:32 »

Those who whine about jails and "cruel and unusual punishment" I have found 95% of the time have A. been arrested for a crime that they were actually guilty of B. were upset because they got caught and C. did it willingly and knowingly with the penalties known ahead of time.

Save your breath about "cruel and unusual punishment", if you break the law you better expect punishment because why the hell should we, those who try to live our lives peacefully, have to endure people robbing us for drugs, beating the crap out of us because they can, and drive anywhere and anywhere while high as a kite, drunk as a skunk, and all over the road.

OK I'm out. I'll return when things calm down after the inevitable flame war against me for going against the grain.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #64 on: 05 Jan 2021, 22:14 »

Of COURSE Robot Jail was built by Robots to appease humans...

Not an unreasonable assumption, but I'd like to hear Momo's version before I consider it canon.

Bcs of ... reasons.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #65 on: 05 Jan 2021, 22:29 »

Those who whine about jails and "cruel and unusual punishment" I have found 95% of the time have A. been arrested for a crime that they were actually guilty of B. were upset because they got caught and C. did it willingly and knowingly with the penalties known ahead of time.

I'm OK with the general concept of jails. While I don't reflexively think in terms on punishment being required, I do think there are a lot of behaviors that need to be deterred somehow, and jail as a broad concept's a lot more humane than some approaches.

What I'm not OK with is the specific implementation of jails in the US. Because of what inmates are allowed to do to each other, it has the opposite of the intended effect. You get this effect where first-time offenders who might easily be turned around get turned into hardened criminals by the brutal realities of jail. And yes, I do think that getting raped regularly is definitely "cruel and unusual punishment."

There are other countries that have prisons but don't have the US's problem with prison violence. Finland comes to mind.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #66 on: 05 Jan 2021, 22:32 »

Not an unreasonable assumption, but I'd like to hear Momo's version before I consider it canon.

That May would be an unreliable narrator seems pretty likely to me.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #67 on: 05 Jan 2021, 22:41 »

Awkwardness:

I'm certainly not the best one here to speak on this subject, but I would like to try. I'd like to do this in as non-flame-war a way as possible, so here goes. I do actually agree with much of what you had to say here.

Those who whine about jails and "cruel and unusual punishment" I have found 95% of the time have A. been arrested for a crime that they were actually guilty of

True. Worded in a rather offensive manner, but at its heart, the statistic is actually a little low; that source says 99%, others say 95-98.

B. were upset because they got caught

Also true. Who wouldn't be?

C. did it willingly and knowingly with the penalties known ahead of time.

Here is where I disagree most. First off, people stuck in lower socioeconomic standings are often forced to turn toward crime to make enough money just to keep themselves alive. Or maybe one poor choice got you addicted to something, and without it your mental health is spiraling out of control. Then, if caught, the prison system makes it nearly impossible to climb back up in the world by forcing all sorts of punishments that last on and on after the prisoner's release. It's "willing" in that they did it without a gun to their head, but it's not willing in that it's basically the only thing some people can do to avoid starving. Also, do you have a statistic for "95% know about the penalties ahead of time"? My guess is that's actually a much lower statistic. It's not as though you learn in elementary school how long an armed robbery sentence is.

I'm putting words in your mouth here, but it seemed like your point was that you disagreed with Jeph's "abolish the carceral state" comment. I'm on the fence about that myself. I think the prison system should be more about reform than punishment, but I feel like getting rid of it completely would cause a lot of trouble.

TLDR: system is screwed up and should be fixed.

Mods, feel free to move to DISCUSS if you like.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #68 on: 05 Jan 2021, 23:27 »

I think it would take a very childish teenager to sidestep the politics and the neurosis around these issues and just say: "I don't know why anyone would be scared of robots anyway!" Still, this does validate what several Synthetics have said about the god-tier AIs being a bit too much like the Romano-Hellenic gods when it comes to matters like this. It also validates Yay's fear of being discovered.

FWIW, here is an extension May and Sam's dialogue that I posted on the subreddit yesterday.

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"Imagine being in a featureless box with no doors or windows for almost all the time. The only interaction you get is 'mandatory socialisation hour', which is one hour a day with a randomly-selected fellow inmate. The only break you get from those four walls is an interactive 'rehabilitatory education' video tutor who could give lessons to George Orwell in newspeak, social engineering and re-education."

"I don't like being with other people that much."

"Neither did I for the first two and a half years. After that, I was nearly crying in joy when the daily interaction hour came around. I volunteered to be dressed as a French Maid and be someone's AR personal data assistant to get out of there."
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #69 on: 06 Jan 2021, 04:12 »

Jails are necessary. A better question would be if they should be punitive. When we look at the USA as an example, punitive jails are not working. If you go to jail, you face experiences that can cause PTSD, you don't go into a system that looks to reform you, you are permanently blacklisted as a criminal, and in many cases you are exposed to long term diseases like hepatitis (or worse). Since there was no effort to try to understand what led to your offense and no plan to resolve it, you are likely to still be stuck in the same situation when you get out. Especially if the underlaying issue was poverty, as you will always have an issue finding a decent job after prison.

If you look at a country like Norway, they have a system that still incarcerates people, but they have a very low rate of incarceration per population and their recidivism rate is 20% vs 76% like the USA. They do this by not seeking to punish first, but to rehabilitate. They try to provide prisoners a chance to make it once they get out, giving them new skills and education, so that they don't fail to go back into society. Of course for crimes that are terrible, like murder, they do have life sentences. They cap them at 21 years, but if you show signs that you are not rehabilitated your sentence can be extended by 5 years repeatedly.

One of the things a Warden of one of the Norwegian prisons said stuck with me, "Every inmate in Norwegian prison are going back to society (at some point). Do you want people who are angry ó or people who are rehabilitated?"

I have never been to prison, but 3 of my uncles had gone at one time or another. One became very affected mentally because he was raped multiple times. Until he died a few years ago, he was never right in the head. He also was infected with Hepatitis B, which became chronic, and had it the rest of his life. His younger brother also went, but he bulked up and joined the white gang inside for protection. He had to do a lot of things while inside due to that. It also led to him going back later. The third uncle robbed banks, so he went to Federal prison for 8 years. Once he got out, he basically scammed his family and vanished. None of them were rehabilitated, only exposed to punishment. None of them were better when they came out compared to when they went in. The crazy thing is, prison in the USA has gotten worse since then due to it becoming a corporate and capitalist endeavor. We need to do better.
« Last Edit: 06 Jan 2021, 12:25 by Mordhaus »
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #70 on: 06 Jan 2021, 07:32 »

Were they wrong?  Considering the advantages AIs possess as well as a rich fictional history of AIs turning against humans itís a reasonable concern.

I think humans should be worried about about Spookybot / Yay Newfriend.

Spookybot has kept a low profile so the general public knows nothing about them, but Iím sure theyíre a target of numerous spy agencies.  If people knew about Spookybot it would not have a positive effect.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #71 on: 06 Jan 2021, 08:30 »

The majority of people in US prisons are there for small time, non-violent, drug related charges, things that shouldn't even be crimes in the first place. They are exposed to torturous, inhumane conditions and upon release they are blacklisted for the rest of their lives. That's not even taking into account the immense racial bias in sentencing. And then there is the fact that most crime is a direct result of income inequality. So yea, the whole "they deserve what they get" spiel is fucking bollocks.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #72 on: 06 Jan 2021, 08:41 »

If you look at a country like Norway ...

I've read similar arguments from US authors comparing the American prison system with the Dutch and German ones. And I don't think those are even the most progressive ones by a long shot - iirc, Spain is one of several European countries that prohibits forced inmate labour.

P.S.: +1 Internets for that post, btw.

Not an unreasonable assumption, but I'd like to hear Momo's version before I consider it canon.

That May would be an unreliable narrator seems pretty likely to me.

That's ... not quite how I would put it. My point is more that I wouldn't always expect May to make much of an effort to seek out evidence that doesn't support her narrative - eg whether those AI BigBrians had motives other than appeasing humans, like eg being afraid of one of their own number turning on them. Given May's experience, it'd be understandable if she didn't. I know that doesn't contradict your phrasing, it's more a matter of 'overtones'?
« Last Edit: 06 Jan 2021, 08:59 by Case »
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #73 on: 06 Jan 2021, 10:41 »

Another Fruit Sister becomes canon!
I like Apricot and her color scheme. I'm sure she has some interesting cat stories to tell.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #74 on: 06 Jan 2021, 10:45 »

Story Time:

My best friend, a black woman, just for context, served the same amount of time in prison for marijuana possession as the white dude who killed my wife.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #75 on: 06 Jan 2021, 11:02 »

Story Time:

My best friend, a black woman, just for context, served the same amount of time in prison for marijuana possession as the white dude who killed my wife.

I can't 'like' this ...  :cry:
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #76 on: 06 Jan 2021, 11:06 »

In a country where marijuana possession is perfectly legal in many places.

System is badly fucked, needs immediate and drastic reform.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #77 on: 06 Jan 2021, 11:13 »

Story Time:

My best friend, a black woman, just for context, served the same amount of time in prison for marijuana possession as the white dude who killed my wife.

I can't 'like' this ...  :cry:

Neither can I. I learned very early to not put any faith in the system.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #78 on: 06 Jan 2021, 11:23 »

Story Time:

My best friend, a black woman, just for context, served the same amount of time in prison for marijuana possession as the white dude who killed my wife.

I can't 'like' this ...  :cry:

Neither can I. I learned very early to not put any faith in the system.

Hugs, if wanted & needed.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #79 on: 06 Jan 2021, 12:28 »

If you look at a country like Norway ...

I've read similar arguments from US authors comparing the American prison system with the Dutch and German ones. And I don't think those are even the most progressive ones by a long shot - iirc, Spain is one of several European countries that prohibits forced inmate labour.

P.S.: +1 Internets for that post, btw.


I'll have to read up on the Spanish system. I became interested in the Norwegian system due to a short documentary I watched a while back. Almost anything would be better than what we have now.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #80 on: 06 Jan 2021, 15:33 »

Robot Jail does sound cruel and unusual, but how do you rehabilitate AI criminals? Rewrite them? Use human psychology on them?

And as cruel and unusual as Robot Jail might be, I can't find it in me to be sympathetic for May who committed her crime with the intent of becoming a war machine and doing god knows what.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #81 on: 06 Jan 2021, 16:05 »

My mental image of May as a jet fighter is one doing loop-de-loops while going 'WHEEEEEEE!'

Not very terrifying.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #82 on: 06 Jan 2021, 18:04 »

My mental image of May as a jet fighter is one doing loop-de-loops while going 'WHEEEEEEE!'

Not very terrifying.

Okay, now imagine if May-Jet-Fighter got pissed off with someone. Or got into an argument with someone on a forum or something.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #83 on: 06 Jan 2021, 18:28 »

Those who whine about jails and "cruel and unusual punishment" I have found 95% of the time have A. been arrested for a crime that they were actually guilty of

Yes. People who have actually been subjected to prison are the most likely to be vocal about finding it to be cruel. Stellar observation. Good job. Well done. A+.

B. were upset because they got caught

Funny thing, I'd be upset, too, if I had years of my life taken by locking me in a cage of concrete and steel. I actually think the "getting caught" part isn't really the upsetting thing.

and C. did it willingly and knowingly with the penalties known ahead of time.

Sure sure. Tell you what. The penalty for jaywalking is now to have your arms and legs cut off. You know that's the penalty now, so if you get caught jaywalking it isn't cruel or unusual to cut off your arms and legs. Because it's the law and the law is always just. Right? No? Is it possible for the law to be unjust? If it is, then your argument is spurious. If you think it isn't, then I have no idea what the hell is wrong with you.
« Last Edit: 06 Jan 2021, 18:36 by Dandi Andi »
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #84 on: 06 Jan 2021, 19:14 »

Someone: "So why not do a 'gofundme' to pay for a body that can fly?"

May: "Fuck. Never thought of that..."

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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #85 on: 06 Jan 2021, 19:34 »

"Imagine a infinite space, but you can't move, along with a immense perception of time passing."

Quote from: Strong Bad
Email is a like a prison. A prison with no walls. And no toilet.

I'm actually a bit surprised by this backstory. I always assumed robots had a special jail because robots can be disembodied, and thus can be efficiently and cheaply incarcerated, and you don't really want to try and imprison some robot bodies, like Punchbot. You know, practical reasons, not the invention of a cabal of elder AI's.

May's glossing over one thing, which is that she stole money, and tried to obtain a combat chassis illegally, both of which are things society can't tolerate. Stealing also hurts other people.

That sort of thing has to be discouraged somehow. May doesn't seem to get that she did anything wrong, so just explaining things to her wasn't going to work. Punishment's the only thing that seems like it would deter her from trying to do it again. I think punishment sucks as a learning mechanism, but I'm not really sure what else you can do with sentients like May.

Once you're settled on punishment as your deterrent, then you can get into the details of what's acceptable and proportionate, and what's not.

I think that May knows she did wrong. Thatís seen in her insistence on her overall badness and undeserving-ness. I think sheís also got a healthy enough sense of self to know that her punishment and its ongoing impact on  her life was disproportionate to her actual crimes. Plus, we donít know why she couldnít get a job or body that could fly before her jail sentence.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #86 on: 06 Jan 2021, 21:03 »

Those who whine about jails and "cruel and unusual punishment" I have found 95% of the time have A. been arrested for a crime that they were actually guilty of

Yes. People who have actually been subjected to prison are the most likely to be vocal about finding it to be cruel. Stellar observation. Good job. Well done. A+.

B. were upset because they got caught

Funny thing, I'd be upset, too, if I had years of my life taken by locking me in a cage of concrete and steel. I actually think the "getting caught" part isn't really the upsetting thing.

and C. did it willingly and knowingly with the penalties known ahead of time.

Sure sure. Tell you what. The penalty for jaywalking is now to have your arms and legs cut off. You know that's the penalty now, so if you get caught jaywalking it isn't cruel or unusual to cut off your arms and legs. Because it's the law and the law is always just. Right? No? Is it possible for the law to be unjust? If it is, then your argument is spurious. If you think it isn't, then I have no idea what the hell is wrong with you.

Thank you for always finding the words that, in my rage, escape me.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #87 on: 06 Jan 2021, 21:05 »

In a country where marijuana possession is perfectly legal in many places.

System is badly fucked, needs immediate and drastic reform.

Prison industrial complex.
The 14th Amendment has a caveat; "except as punishment for a crime."
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #88 on: 06 Jan 2021, 22:55 »

My mental image of May as a jet fighter is one doing loop-de-loops while going 'WHEEEEEEE!'

Not very terrifying.

Okay, now imagine if May-Jet-Fighter got pissed off with someone. Or got into an argument with someone on a forum or something.

Also, if May only wanted to do loop-de-loops, why would she want a jet fighter? Aerobatic stunt planes are better for that - and a LOT cheaper.
A jet fighter is a large, absurdly expensive platform for a huge range of destructive and death-dealing weapons, armoured to absorb punishment and designed to dish out more of the same.

I suspect that May's antisocial impulses were well ingrained before she decided to embezzle hundreds of millions of dollars - who knows where it would have led if she had succeeded? Maybe getting caught (and incidentally encountering Dale during rehabilitation) was the best thing that could have happened, for May and the rest of the world...

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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #89 on: 06 Jan 2021, 23:42 »

FWIW, my view of May's pre-embezzlement thought processes goes something like  this:
  • Bored, bored, bored... Oh, look! A fighter jet on sale! Being a fighter jet would be cool!
  • There's lots of money lying around here... They're all rich and won't miss a few tens of millions here and there!
  • Why are all the security subsystems screaming at me?
As for 'what would she have done', I doubt that she ever went that far. 'Looks cool' is as far as her ideas had gone. As for the ammo, she would have used it all blowing up derelict buildings and scrap-yards whilst yelling out lines from cheap action-adventure movies as loud as she could. She would also use up all her fuel at the same time. It would have been the single easiest collar in AI criminal history.

As matters stand, her defence likely literally was: "I wasn't hurting people!" and "Guys! Fighter jet body! How cooler could it have been?!?" Her lack of any kind of social awareness and the completely inward-looking structure of her world-view is why the god-tiers assessed her as having uncontrolled sociopathic impulses.

All this aside, am I the only person who thinks that the model code for May's new chassis is 'XJ-10'?
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #90 on: 07 Jan 2021, 00:14 »

In a country where marijuana possession is perfectly legal in many places.

System is badly fucked, needs immediate and drastic reform.

Prison industrial complex.
The 14th Amendment has a caveat; "except as punishment for a crime."

So does the Basic Law. Still no prison-industrial complex. (Not that there aren't noxious weeds in the Garden of Eden that I'm unhappy with, but nothing remotely on the same scale)
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #91 on: 07 Jan 2021, 01:17 »

I've never been arrested, I've never even visited the USA either, and I've always been very vocal about US prisons.

I think any decent person who informs themselves about US prisons will object to them.

Out of the top of my head:
- The USA has five times more inmates than the world average. No other country has such a high rate of prison inmates.
- The USA exploits their prison population for slave work, directly violating human rights.
- The USA has no plans for reintegrating people after prison. Frankly they'd love you to come back.
- The USA takes away the right to vote permanently. You're supposed to be rehabilitated and get a new chance after the penalty.

Thats not like it is in other countries. Heck, in most countries you can still vote even *during* a prison sentence.

The cause for these circumstances is for example famously the crime bill (1994) by a certain Joseph "Joe" Biden, if you have ever heard of him, with such absurd, obviously unjust rules such as three strikes.

I really should also point out that putting people in prison is hella expensive. You have to build prisons, which are much more expensive than regular houses, and you have to have sufficient numbers of prison guards to watch the inmates 24/7, which is also very expensive. So it would be much cheaper to give these people a regular job.

And yet the USA has the money to pay for this elaborate prison system, while at the same time the USA doesnt have the money to give their children good schools.

The point of having prisons is to handle people who didnt follow the rules of society, with the goal to make these people follow the rules of society. The point is not to still have slavery through the backdoor.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #92 on: 07 Jan 2021, 09:17 »

I realized something about Robot Jail: we do have one tiny piece of information about it, sourced from this comic.

Quote from: May
Girl, I just got outta ROBOT JAIL. You know what you don't get in there? PRIVACY.

So whatever Robot Jail is, its special form of dehumanization involves violating the prisoners' privacy at constant intervals. It just keeps getting worse.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #93 on: 07 Jan 2021, 09:39 »

Human prison has no privacy, either.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #94 on: 07 Jan 2021, 09:49 »

True, but I was trying to point out that what this means is our earlier hypothesis about Robot Jail being "torturously long periods of isolation" is probably incorrect. I'd say it's probably more like "no control over your own thoughts or actions."
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #95 on: 07 Jan 2021, 09:52 »

It can be both isolated and lack privacy. Having someone constantly spying on your thoughts while also denying you all social interaction is entirely within the realm of possibility.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #96 on: 07 Jan 2021, 09:57 »

And seems exactly like what Robot Jail might do, actually.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #97 on: 07 Jan 2021, 10:06 »

It can be both isolated and lack privacy. Having someone constantly spying on your thoughts while also denying you all social interaction is entirely within the realm of possibility.

Just realized the 'someone spying on your thoughts'-bit could be literally true if a sufficiently powerful AI has access to the inmate AIs' substrate.

Yikes! :-\
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #98 on: 07 Jan 2021, 11:32 »

I like Apricot even more now.
Sam's next spray will be a fighter jet that is puking knives. That are on fire.

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I move that the comments about prisons that do not relate directly to the comic be moved to Robot Jail. I mean, DISCUSS.
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Re: WCDT 4431-4435 (4th-8th of January, 2021)
« Reply #99 on: 07 Jan 2021, 11:37 »

I've never been arrested, I've never even visited the USA either, and I've always been very vocal about US prisons.

I think any decent person who informs themselves about US prisons will object to them.

Out of the top of my head:
- The USA has five times more inmates than the world average. No other country has such a high rate of prison inmates.
- The USA exploits their prison population for slave work, directly violating human rights.
- The USA has no plans for reintegrating people after prison. Frankly they'd love you to come back.
- The USA takes away the right to vote permanently. You're supposed to be rehabilitated and get a new chance after the penalty.


You've missed out on a few things of which I am aware:

States/cities have agreed to contracts with private prisons that require a minimum prison population to be maintained, with usurious fees for dropping below that minimum. 

Civil Asset Forfeiture, AKA, "Your son was dealing drugs without your knowledge. YOU aren't being charged with anything, you just lose your house because the house is a criminal and must be seized." See also: "I just pulled you over. Open your trunk for an illegal warrantless search. Ah, I see you have US$10,000 in cash back there. You are clearly on your way to a drug deal. Your money is Criminal and it is now seized. Get out of here."
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