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Do you know what a vtuber is?

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Its a virtual idol on youtube and other sites
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Total Members Voted: 31

Voting closed: 14 Nov 2021, 18:19


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Author Topic: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)  (Read 3264 times)

BenRG

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #50 on: 09 Nov 2021, 22:58 »

Aurelia in panel 3 today is speaking for Jeph, I think.

I think that the strip has missed the boat about some AIs having a kink of dressing up as humans, having human 'alternate selves' and the like. Most current AIs seem to be more than halfway human anyway. No, I still think that it might be interesting if there is a human subculture about pretending to be AIs, right down to body-suits that boarder on being actual exoskeletons..
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #51 on: 10 Nov 2021, 01:59 »

@Gyrre: I am personally fond of the term "furvert" for a person interested in furry stuff for sexual reasons, but most furries I've known think the term is cringey, because adding fur- to words by furries is overplayed ("fursecution", LOL). I disagree (at least in the case of "furvert"), I think it's natural for words to be created when the need for them arises. And "furvert" is succint, pretty clearly understood *and* I personally think it's cute in a funny way.

@Tova:

As silly as that "Level of Furry" chart may be, it does explain the failure of Cats the film. I don't think anyone could handle the cognitive dissonance of hating on furries and enjoying that film.

You could call "Cats" a failure based on its level of furry, you could also talk about Uncanny Valley. Besides, furries didn't like the film at all (unless they did it "ironically"), from what I understand. I'm sure there ARE furries out there who enjoyed the film legitimately, but the general consensus seems to have been "kill it with fire". And coming from furries, who are sometimes into plenty weird/cringey stuff, that's saying something.

And I've seen the argument that any furry would've made "Cats" in a way that would've been much more aesthetically sensible and visually appealing, both to furries and non-furries. Given that the bar isn't exactly super-high, I agree.
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Tova

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #52 on: 10 Nov 2021, 02:08 »

Just to be clear, I haven't seen the film myself at all.

I don't think too many people have actually.

You could call "Cats" a failure based on its level of furry, you could also talk about Uncanny Valley.

Many people have talked about that. I can't outright reject it, but honestly, I don't see it and I don't buy it.

If you're just saying it's a bad film, then I can accept that easily enough. But it won't be the first film that was merely bad but got a weirdly intense visceral reaction that (at least in my mind) calls for more of an explanation than merely "it was a bad film." I'm sure an example or two will come to you.

I dunno if furries not liking it is saying anything in particular. You seem to be implying that furries would like anything covered in fur, which ... well is a little disrespectful, maybe. If it was a bad film, it was a bad film. Nothing complicated about that.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #53 on: 10 Nov 2021, 02:20 »

If it was a bad film, it was a bad film. Nothing complicated about that.

It was a bad film, for many reasons (it was bad as a musical compared to the original, it made bizarre changes to the original story, shallow as it was, and so on).

I was referring specifically to the way  the characters were created/animated. For aesthetic reasons, the movie was deeply weird, and went deep into the Uncanny Valley.

I said that furries specifically didn't like it because many people seem to think "oh God, those monstrosities on-screen. This must be every furry's dream", while I argue that the movie doesn't appeal to furries because it deeply misunderstands what works about anthropomorphic animals as characters. Furries like that kind of stuff, and this movie did it horrifically badly, so furries might arguably like the movie LESS than your average Joe. So it slightly annoys me that "Cats" is labelled as a furry movie, while I think nobody dislikes the movie AS much as most furries.

As to "furries would like anything with fur" and it being condescending - I love furries and the furry fandom. I do. But I don't think our reputation for being cringe AF came out of nowhere. Tastes of furries vary wildly, as do the tastes of any group. But there is plenty of art out there that's bizarre, extreme or just plain bad that gets a pass from large numbers in the fandom. I do legitimately consider "this movie was too bad for even furries to get horny, for the most part" to be a valid point. Furries are into some weird stuff (including the original "Cats" musical, which I personally think is delightful, but from what I understand many musical theatre connoisseurs in general consider just plain bad, for various reasons, despite its fairly broad appeal). "Cats" the film seems to have been just too much.

YMMV. Being a furry (and pretty proudly a weirdo about it) and having met more than a few furries, I don't consider it insulting to say that furries can get plenty weird, in a way that would make most people uncomfortable. It's not a value judgment (even if it's mixed in with some wry amusement). It's how I perceive those more... esoteric interests of the fandom.

If you think saying "furries will like anything" with the implication "anything bad" is unfair to furries, I can rephrase it as - furries enjoy some pretty weird flavours in their entertainment diet. Flavours that are an acquired taste at best. "Cats" (the film) proved a bit too spicy for most of us.
« Last Edit: 10 Nov 2021, 02:26 by oddtail »
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Tova

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #54 on: 10 Nov 2021, 02:36 »

Thanks for the clarification on the reasons furries may not have liked the film, and may have disliked people's assumptions. That all seems pretty believable.

Still, I think that the reasons people like or dislike things are many and varied, and that deciding the film must be bad because furries didn't like it is ... okay, not condescending, but certainly a little simplistic.

Anyway, I'm happy to accept that the film is bad. I've never been interested in seeing the film. Nor the musical it's based on.

As for the uncanny valley argument, I'm still not buying it, and while I do have more thoughts on the topic, because this is not the first time the topic's been raised, and this is a bit of a derailment already, I won't pursue it further.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #55 on: 10 Nov 2021, 04:11 »

As silly as that "Level of Furry" chart may be, it does explain the failure of Cats the film. I don't think anyone could handle the cognitive dissonance of hating on furries and enjoying that film.
I just think they did a terrible job of mixing human and non-human features with the end result being unappealing to most people regardless of whether they're furry or not. I haven't seen the full movie but I've seen some clips and screenshots and my personal conclusion was "It was a brave attempt but it didn't work out."

Also somewhat supported by the fact that I don't think I've seen a lot of furry art which looked like the characters from the movie, and I've seen a lot of furry art.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #56 on: 10 Nov 2021, 04:33 »

Again, "unappealing" and "didn't work out" I can easily accept.

It's the "kill it with fire" reaction (as oddtail put it) that, for mine, wants further explanation. There are a lot of bad films out there. Some of them extraordinarily bad. Few get that level of reaction. Some of the truly bad ones end up cult favourites.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #57 on: 10 Nov 2021, 04:49 »

Again, "unappealing" and "didn't work out" I can easily accept.

It's the "kill it with fire" reaction (as oddtail put it) that, for mine, wants further explanation. There are a lot of bad films out there. Some of them extraordinarily bad. Few get that level of reaction. Some of the truly bad ones end up cult favourites.
I'm not sure how to explain it. The only real comparison I have is the original design for Sonic in the Sonic The Hedgehog movie. I believe that received roughly the same reaction where people didn't just consider it bad, they found it actively repulsive. I don't know how to explain the why, but I do know that the reaction was genuine and well-documented.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #58 on: 10 Nov 2021, 08:44 »

Actually, Marten got me wondering 'Why aren't there AI furries?"

Most of the AIs we see are at least anthropomorphic if not full out humanoid, which makes a lot of sense from the function of a comic.  After all it's a lot easier to show personality with someone who looks like Bubbles than with a floating, black slab.  But we do know that Mech bodies are options for AIs.  May wanted to be a fighter jet - not a fighter jet pilot.

But the only animalistic robot I recall was a nightmare fuel spider.  (maybe Yelling Bird was an AI?) 

I find it easy to imagine AI companions who might opt for 'dog' (especially Winslow - I can see Winslow as a golden retriever).  I can imagine Yay Newfriend with a cat body, great for stealth.  Elephant, dinosaur, and shark/whale bodies
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BenRG

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #59 on: 10 Nov 2021, 08:54 »

My idea about humans wanting to look synthetic is discussed a bit more in this thread
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oddtail

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #60 on: 10 Nov 2021, 08:55 »

Actually, Marten got me wondering 'Why aren't there AI furries?"

Most of the AIs we see are at least anthropomorphic if not full out humanoid, which makes a lot of sense from the function of a comic.  After all it's a lot easier to show personality with someone who looks like Bubbles than with a floating, black slab.  But we do know that Mech bodies are options for AIs.  May wanted to be a fighter jet - not a fighter jet pilot.

But the only animalistic robot I recall was a nightmare fuel spider.  (maybe Yelling Bird was an AI?) 

I find it easy to imagine AI companions who might opt for 'dog' (especially Winslow - I can see Winslow as a golden retriever).  I can imagine Yay Newfriend with a cat body, great for stealth.  Elephant, dinosaur, and shark/whale bodies

Good point. And given that AI presumably often want to look appealing from a human perspective (and are not constrained by human anatomy), a mildly furry-looking character might be cute in the same way a cosplayer at a convention might. Animals are cute to many people, there's a reason cartoon characters are often animals even when they are functionally humans for the purpose of a story.

AIs with furry bodies seems like it should be more common, and AI with cosmetic furry elements (like catgirls) seems like a given.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #61 on: 10 Nov 2021, 09:58 »

Given the past comics we had some years ago on the topic of AI civil rights, it makes me wonder if there has been some kind of trend towards generally human-like chassis unless the AI fulfills a very specific function (think the AIs at the robot ring) for the sake of their arguments for civil right. It could even be something the AI community has more or less 'decided' on amongst themselves.
One can imagine if AIs are walking around in large-scale animal chassis, and/or of predatory animals, general attitudes towards AIs might suffer.

The above also fits well with the gradual increase (although it was fairly sudden at some point) towards almost exclusively human-like bodies among AIs since the introduction of Momo.

Such a stark contrast from way back when Hanners received the very prototypical human-like chassis from her dad!
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #62 on: 10 Nov 2021, 10:48 »

Some of the discussions around Furries, and the movie Cats, have enough "what is a fan" vibe for me to reference an arc in El Goonish Shive that started last month.

https://www.egscomics.com/egsnp/forreals-01

Are you a fan?  Are you a REAL Fan?  What is a "fan"?  Is there only one way to be a fan?  ...
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #63 on: 10 Nov 2021, 14:01 »

Well, there is the bear-janitor for the non-profit. 
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #64 on: 10 Nov 2021, 18:19 »

This was inevitable.
Cue MAJOR lack of chill.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #65 on: 10 Nov 2021, 18:57 »

Whoops! *lol* I guess all 3 appeared as avatars, since Marigold didn't go "Hey! That's Marten and Claire!"

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #66 on: 10 Nov 2021, 19:22 »

Actually, Marten got me wondering 'Why aren't there AI furries?"
[...]
But the only animalistic robot I recall was a nightmare fuel spider.  (maybe Yelling Bird was an AI?) 

I find it easy to imagine AI companions who might opt for 'dog' (especially Winslow - I can see Winslow as a golden retriever).  I can imagine Yay Newfriend with a cat body, great for stealth.  Elephant, dinosaur, and shark/whale bodies

Well, there is the bear-janitor for the non-profit.

We also saw a whale AI at the end of the "Marten shouldn't actually have been assigned Pintsize as his companion" mini-arc, here.

So it seems that these AIs do exist, but probably in relatively small numbers. And it's not surprising that we wouldn't see the larger types roaming around downtown Northampton too often, but it does raise the question of where the smaller ones are. If there are toaster AIs (which is canon) then there should be pet-shaped AIs, and you'd think there'd be a decent number.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #67 on: 10 Nov 2021, 19:38 »

Maybe it was audio only?
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shanejayell

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #68 on: 10 Nov 2021, 20:02 »

Maybe it was audio only?

Or that...

BenRG

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #69 on: 10 Nov 2021, 23:31 »

Why were Marigold and May listening in? I suspect that Aurelia has her system to send out a notification automatically when she wants to go live, even if unscheduled. I'm pretty sure that's doable even IRL and I'm sure she has enough devoted fans that she'll be up into the thousands of viewers within five minutes. Not my idea of something I'd want but still... It probably tells you a little bit of her relationship with her subscribers if she does unplanned streams that might be just her ranting about something or sharing a free-association of some kind that just popped into her head.

Clinton has already guest-starred in the show as 'Li'l Beef'. I wonder what Claire's 'Mini-Milk' avatar looks like and what Marten's might look like? A dour moose jumps to mind for some reason.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #70 on: 11 Nov 2021, 02:18 »

I havent watched anyone with an avatar yet, but its pretty common for gamers on YouTube etc to first display a logo of some sort, until a game is started, so I bet thats whats currently displayed.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #71 on: 11 Nov 2021, 04:31 »

Really should be more careful with your mother's setup Claire.
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Gyrre

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #72 on: 11 Nov 2021, 05:27 »

As silly as that "Level of Furry" chart may be, it does explain the failure of Cats the film. I don't think anyone could handle the cognitive dissonance of hating on furries and enjoying that film.
Lindsay Ellis has a video essay on that. It was a cocktail of the director, uncanny valley, and ways it deviated from the original material.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #73 on: 11 Nov 2021, 06:22 »

we are reaching a very new place in the continuity it seems!!

Yay revealed themselves to Aurelia, Yay knows about and helped with Mommymilkers, and now it will depend what Marigold and May will do!   
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #74 on: 11 Nov 2021, 06:49 »

As silly as that "Level of Furry" chart may be, it does explain the failure of Cats the film. I don't think anyone could handle the cognitive dissonance of hating on furries and enjoying that film.
Lindsay Ellis has a video essay on that. It was a cocktail of the director, uncanny valley, and ways it deviated from the original material.

I noticed something when the movie was coming out that showed quite a bit of wrongheadedness about the focus of the movie.

Robert Fairchild is featured in a lot of the advertisement since he actually looks good as one of the Cats.  He was a principal dancer at the NYC Ballet who transitioned to lead roles in Broadway musicals.  Have fun trying to find his name or any of the other dancers in the advertisements.

CATS is a broadway music spectacular.  One goes to a ballet/broadway to watch the dancing not the acting.  There's nothing wrong with having a focus on dance rather than acting - which the people casting CATS the movie missed.  The cast is great for a Shakespeare play or an Agatha Christie style mystery, not a dance review.  (BTW, I'm never going to go and see it since I can't stand Andrew Lloyd Webber's music.)
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #75 on: 11 Nov 2021, 13:48 »

Casting actors in film adaptations of musical theatre is not entirely without successful precedent....

Anyway, I'll brace myself and watch the video.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #76 on: 11 Nov 2021, 18:38 »

Comics up.

Yes, you ALWAYS sound weird when you hear your voice recorded...

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #77 on: 11 Nov 2021, 18:46 »

(the technical reason has to do with only hearing your voice through air, rather than with the additional tones that are conducted through your skull-bones)

and yyyyup, that's Claire and Clinton all right.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #78 on: 11 Nov 2021, 19:38 »

"Hey guys"...

URGE TO KILL RISING...MUST RESIST... :x :x :x :x :psyduck:
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #79 on: 11 Nov 2021, 20:28 »

Maybe it was audio only?


Yay, I was right!
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #80 on: 11 Nov 2021, 20:37 »

As silly as that "Level of Furry" chart may be, it does explain the failure of Cats the film. I don't think anyone could handle the cognitive dissonance of hating on furries and enjoying that film.
I just think they did a terrible job of mixing human and non-human features with the end result being unappealing to most people regardless of whether they're furry or not. I haven't seen the full movie but I've seen some clips and screenshots and my personal conclusion was "It was a brave attempt but it didn't work out."

Also somewhat supported by the fact that I don't think I've seen a lot of furry art which looked like the characters from the movie, and I've seen a lot of furry art.

In a bit of not-unmittigated-good-news, that movie's failure is proof we don't live in 'the darkest timeline'.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #81 on: 12 Nov 2021, 08:23 »

I like Marten in this comic.
"I'll just chill with Cosmo"

He's not inserting himself.  He's not interfering.  He's not questioning.  It's Claire's questionable decision to make.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #82 on: 12 Nov 2021, 11:26 »

(the technical reason has to do with only hearing your voice through air, rather than with the additional tones that are conducted through your skull-bones)

And if you want to hear something really weird, talk in a room with sound dampening walls so that the majority of what you hear is bone conduction and all other noises become point sources and you can't tell where they are due to the lack of echoes.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #83 on: 12 Nov 2021, 11:40 »

I like Marten in this comic.
"I'll just chill with Cosmo"

He's not inserting himself.  He's not interfering.  He's not questioning.  It's Claire's questionable decision to make.

And this further demonstrates that Marten *does* have a type (the chronically unchill), and at least for him, opposites attract.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #84 on: 12 Nov 2021, 12:48 »

Is the "clips on YT" speech balloon pointing to the wrong character in p1? Looks like it *should* go to Aurelia...
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #85 on: 13 Nov 2021, 10:23 »

Looks like it's been fixed now.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #86 on: 15 Nov 2021, 03:09 »

I havent watched anyone with an avatar yet, but its pretty common for gamers on YouTube etc to first display a logo of some sort, until a game is started, so I bet thats whats currently displayed.

I'll recommend TemmieChang. She does everything from Part Time UFO to Dark Souls. And, yes, she's the artist the Tems from Undertale were based on.
Part Time UFO (HAL Labs):

Dark Souls (fair warning, shrieking occurs from time to time throughout this playthrough):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmfo1yNjeIM&list=PLLAY4h5pIpKQMXRhQBXgGXkhdpZdTpGwn&index=1
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #87 on: 15 Nov 2021, 03:15 »

I love how Clinton is powerless to stifle his SIBLING RAGE  :laugh: He is INDIGNANT and he must EXPRESS THAT.
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #88 on: 15 Nov 2021, 06:21 »

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Tova

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #89 on: 15 Nov 2021, 16:23 »

Risky click of the day.
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Beafterfore the carved elephant.

Is it cold in here?

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #90 on: 15 Nov 2021, 16:51 »

It turns out to be harmless and on topic.
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Farideh

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #91 on: 15 Nov 2021, 18:41 »

New comic.

According to Google, the name for 'cowboy phobia' is 'pistolpetaphobia'. I take this term with a grain of salt, though.

Also: no, Claire. You might have been anonymous, but that is not your story to tell.
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St.Clair

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #92 on: 15 Nov 2021, 19:04 »

I see no way this could possiblie go wrong.
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Salty

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #93 on: 15 Nov 2021, 19:07 »

Oh Claire, you fool. You FOOL!
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Penquin47

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #94 on: 15 Nov 2021, 21:39 »

New comic.

According to Google, the name for 'cowboy phobia' is 'pistolpetaphobia'. I take this term with a grain of salt, though.

Also: no, Claire. You might have been anonymous, but that is not your story to tell.

That is likely fear of a specific cowboy, or group of cowboys: Pistol Pete is the gun-toting cowboy mascot of the Oklahoma State Cowboys.
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Farideh

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #95 on: 15 Nov 2021, 21:50 »

Argh, curses! I posted in the wrong WCDT.
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Gyrre

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #96 on: 17 Nov 2021, 17:12 »

New comic.

According to Google, the name for 'cowboy phobia' is 'pistolpetaphobia'. I take this term with a grain of salt, though.

Also: no, Claire. You might have been anonymous, but that is not your story to tell.

That is likely fear of a specific cowboy, or group of cowboys: Pistol Pete is the gun-toting cowboy mascot of the Oklahoma State Cowboys.
Very probably.
Especially since the Greek word for cowboy is 'kaoumpói' (just looked it up). So a general phobia would probably be kaoumpóiphobia, right?
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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #97 on: 17 Nov 2021, 19:30 »

That depends. Do all phobia names have Greek roots?
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Gyrre

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Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #98 on: 17 Nov 2021, 20:21 »

That depends. Do all phobia names have Greek roots?
Good point.
Though generally, yes, as I understand it.
Latin is usually the other option since science.

Sidebar; it would seem Greek uses a transliteration. Interesting that the 'b' is replaced with a 'p'.
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a real-ass gaddam sword
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"Broken swords and dragon bones scattered on the way back home."

Too stubborn to die, just like the rest of my family.

hedgie

Re: WCDT Nov 8 - Nov 13th (4651-4655)
« Reply #99 on: 17 Nov 2021, 20:21 »

Since “Phobos” is Greek, to do otherwise would be mixing.
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"The highest treason in the USA is to say Americans are not loved, no matter where they are, no matter what they are doing there." -- Vonnegut
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