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[jus]

I'm with Druid on this one. But I know what Marc means, I'm not going to sit back in my dorm room and listen to 50 while I'm writing out an assignment, but predictable beats and nihilistic lyrics actually kind of work for the club scene, 'cos then it's about what's going on between you and your partner, not so much the music itself.

[dirge]

I've skimmed through and not sure if anyones mentioned;

DJ Shadow - Entroducing.

I have to say that is fantastic for any hip hop fan;

Alphabet Aerobics i first heard on;

DJ Kicks - Nightmares on Wax.

Which I also recommend as a starting compilation mixed very well and a great selection in there.

Last years

Foreign Exchange - Connected;

I thought this was fantastic.

[jal-vani]

after all rock lyrics aren't necessarily poetry.

dude, the best rock lyrics sure do come close. the best hip-hop does, too, IMHO.

[Robbo]

Some are...well Pig Destroyer's are at least.

[call it glitter]

I am a huge fan of Atmosphere, DJ Shadow, Kanye West, Dizzee Rascal and G-Unit. (Y)

[lofin]

Some more good rap artists are The Fugees (The Mask, Fu-gee-la, Ready or Not) and Del the Funky Homosapien (he did Clint Eastwood and Rock Tha House for Gorillaz).  Also, most of the solo projects from Fugees are good (Miseducation esp.)

Oh yeah, I forgot to tell everyone to LISTEN TO STEVIE WONDER.  "Songs In the Key of Life" is one of the greatest albums of all time.  Although not rap, he influenced all rap we hear.

[jus]

How could I forget the Fugees. Also, I just remembered, pretty much ANY rap track with Vinia Mojica on it is golden. She's this woman with an amazing voice that puts you at ease.

She's on Kweli's - The Blast, Stand to the Side
Mos's - Climb
Black Star's - K.O.S. (these are all tracks I've already listed)
Some De La and Q Tribe tracks too.

Check her out online, she's never released an album but she's a constant performer on slightly left of center rap and R&B albums.

I remember seeing a guide to Vinia Mojica collaborations on Amazon, lost the link though. I heard she kicks ass live too; I'd kill to hear her perform her own music.

[Spencer]

The Fugees were incredible, and its a shame that they get overlooked so often. Sorta hard not to considering how much Wyclef and Lauren's solo work outshined the Groups work. It's a shame they don't plan on getting back together. I guess Lauren carries a huge grudge against Wyclef. Scorned lovers and whatnot.

The Miseducation of Lauren Hill was an incredible album. It still has heavy rotation in my playlist.

[Druid]

dude, the best rock lyrics sure do come close. the best hip-hop does, too, IMHO.

I know. They both have their extremes.

I was just pointing out that rock has it's share of bad lyrics as well. Just look at anything by Jet or the Vines as examples of stupid rock lyrics.

[Radiowar]

>Beastie Boys
I don't really count them as rap.  Did anyone else think their last record well, kinda sucked?  Older = better in this case

Paul's Boutique = classic

I'm glad people here are at least open-minded. Right now I'm listening to a lot of Jurassic 5, Loop Junktion, k-os, MF Doom, Black Star, Edan, and Percee P to name a few...

[Radiowar]

LISTEN TO MORE ATMOSPHERE

Atmosphere is really meh. I don't like Slug, period.

RE: J5 - *yawn*

How so?

Sweatshop Union - I keep coming back to these guys and liking them more and more everytime I listen. Socially Conscious, but tounge in cheek at the same time. They don't take themselves too seriously, which makes them a lot more bareable than the j5's and the talib kwali's.

Yeah, Sweatshop Union is one of the best groups in Canadian hip-hop recently.

[cacahuate]

My votes go to Jurassic 5 and the Roots.

The Streets, anyone? *laughs uncontrollably*

[devinjames]

See, this is exactly why I don't like talking music with indie people. Sure I share common interests in the good music of our time, but only if said good music is independent and/or relatively unknown. It's a closeminded stance on contemporary music. And I get flak for it in my college radio crowd. And I'll get flak for it here. But

50 Cent is great. G-Unit is great. Contemporary mainstream gangsta rap is great. All incredibly talented rappers. Very interestingly post modern expression of contemporary culture.

Arguments against are all just bullshit. Stories told for justification of showing a cold shoulder.

Just dig it.

[McTaggart]

I can dig it at parties. Maybe shows if there was a smaller crowd, but not when I'm thinking.

[rynne]

I'm listening to Dälek's Absense right now.  

The phrase "hip-hop My Bloody Valentine" gets thrown around a lot with these guys, but it's not an inaccurate descriptor.  The beats are massively weighty, and the vocals are half-buried under gossamer waves of treated synths, guitars, and static.

[MilkmanDan]

Dälek are good stuff. Weird stuff, but good.

In other news, bad Radiowar. Very bad Radiowar. What is about Slug you don't like? I have no idea what kind of stuff you listen to, other than Sweatshop union, and (I assume) J5. From just those two, I'm kinda suprised you don't like Atmosphere.
Also, J5 are pretty yawn. I used to be loving it, but they just don't excite me anymore. Swing Set is still a tune, but I've listened to it too much. Everything else... meh, basically.

[Praeserpium Machinarum]

See, this is exactly why I don't like talking music with indie people. Sure I share common interests in the good music of our time, but only if said good music is independent and/or relatively unknown. It's a closeminded stance on contemporary music. And I get flak for it in my college radio crowd. And I'll get flak for it here. But

50 Cent is great. G-Unit is great. Contemporary mainstream gangsta rap is great. All incredibly talented rappers. Very interestingly post modern expression of contemporary culture.

Arguments against are all just bullshit. Stories told for justification of showing a cold shoulder.

Just dig it.

*rant on*

maybe that's because there is some truth in it? Yeah some probably don't listen because it is not the thing to hear, but I honestly just can't stand gangsta rap. The texts are rubbish and unintentionally comical, especially 50 Cent just take Candy Shop. Sure the beats can be okay, but the content of their rap is appalling. And that is not even including all the sexism etc. While I am at it, I might as well confess my dislike for Eminem too. I find him boring and uninspired, like too many other mainstream rappers he trives off a good sample and thats that. Some of this is equally true for rock bands, fx. Puddle of Mudd and Nickelback etc. but the difference is I don't get that shove in my face all the time. Frankly I think gangsta rap and R&B is a disease that needs to be cut away. While saying that, I can't forbid anyone to listen to it nor do I want to, it just irritates me because it is always on the radio and everywhere I go.

*rant end *

[Radiowar]

In other news, bad Radiowar. Very bad Radiowar. What is about Slug you don't like? I have no idea what kind of stuff you listen to, other than Sweatshop union, and (I assume) J5. From just those two, I'm kinda suprised you don't like Atmosphere.
Also, J5 are pretty yawn. I used to be loving it, but they just don't excite me anymore. Swing Set is still a tune, but I've listened to it too much. Everything else... meh, basically.

Well Quality Control is one of my favorite albums, so even if I don't like their other stuff, they still count as one of my favorite hip-hop groups I guess.
I just think Slug is a bad rapper. I don't like the stuff he does (although I did like 'The River'  for awhile).

Other hip-hop I listen to includes but is not limited to: MF Doom, Royce da 5'9", Common, Jay-Z, Jadakiss, Nas, Braille, Tupac, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Black Thought, Dead Prez, Wu-Tang Clan, Black Market Militia, Outkast, Madlib, Mountain Brothers, Jin, Charizma, Del the Funkee Homosapien, Hieroglyphics, Souls of Mischief, Lootpack, Guru, k-os, Jurassic 5, Method Man, Oh No, Percee P, Rakim, Skillz, Little Brother, Masta Ace, Jean Grae, Murs, Mr. Lif, Blueprint, Tonedeff, Edan, Choclair, Kardinal Offishall, Rascalz, Rakim, Kurupt, Crooked I, Notorious B.I.G., DPG, Kool G Rap, and Kool Keith.

[Druid]

Very interestingly post modern expression of contemporary culture.

If this is ment to be synonymous with banal and uninteresting I agree.

I've explained my position on mainstream rap, they have unimaginative beats and uninteresting, sometimes annoying, production. If I like it I'll say that I like it, and if it annoys me I'll say that too.

Just to add something else to the arguement, I've found that the rappers and DJ(s) combination makes more interesting music then rappers and producers combination. This may be me being baised towards bands rather then just artists or labels.

As far as Em goes, he has talent, but he also comes off as just a novelty act like ICP and Gwar. Then there is Dr. Dre's production which is, once again, uninspired.

[Poke]

Does anyone else listen to Michael Franti/ Spearhead

It's absolutely fanfuckingtastic, and I don't like rap! In general, that is, there is very little rap I appreciate, but he his talented and it's not about bitches and bling... it's alot more social commentary type with words you can actually  understand.

[rynne]

I haven't heard his stuff with Spearhead, but I like his earlier project, Disposible Heros of Hiphoprisy.  It's good industrial rap; the only downside is that much the subject matter is very time-specific and hasn't aged well.

I'm in a hip-hop mood, so I've got with me today:

Dälek - Absence
Dr. Octagon - Dr. Octagonecologyst
New Kingdom - Paradice Don't Come Cheap
Wu-Tang Clan - The W
King Geedorah - Take Me to Your Leader
Ice - Bad Blood
Techno Animal - The Brotherhood of the Bomb

[MilkmanDan]

I just think Slug is a bad rapper. I don't like the stuff he does (although I did like 'The River'  for awhile).

Well, that's ok. I just can't stand the people who like Slug on Headshots / Overcast! and think he fell off after that. If you just don't like any Slug, that's fair enough, but I still think you're missing out. You listened to any other Rhymesayers stuff?(Other than MF Doom, obviously) Brother Ali, Eyedea & Abilities etc.

[Hephesus]

There IS good rap out there... it is just very hard to find. I also have a guility pleasure with some classic Cypress Hill and Snoop Dog.... But most of the popular hip-hop today is just tired and boring.

[TMacg]

Hello everyone,

I have surprised myself by registering with a forum just because I want to talk about a particular thing. That thing is The Go! Team.
They are a British band, from Brighton I believe. They released an album called Thunder Lightning Strike last year. It would be hard to define them as a rap act, but their music is largely made from samples so it's fair to say that without rap music we wouldn't have The Go! Team. If you like the sound of heavy, clattering drumbeats, howling harmonicas, old soul samples, vocal chants and stuff, you may well enjoy them. It's a bit all-over-the-place, but for me it's the happiest and funkiest music I've heard of late. Get hold of 'Huddle Formation', it actually sounds very indie.

[MilkmanDan]

While I (and many others on this forum) are loving The Go! Team, I have to question their rap relevance. Samples != Hip-Hop, let alone rap. But yeah, they rock.

[happybirthdaygelatin]

That has me wondering, where does responsibility lay for sampling?

[rynne]

You could probably go back to Stockhausen and musique concrete guys for coming up with the idea of sampling other sounds.

Don't know who the first person would be who made a song based on a sample of other people's music.  Maybe Afrika Bambaataa mashing-up two Kraftwerk tracks for "Planet Rock"?

[MilkmanDan]

Well, I'd say Hip-Hop certainly started sampling, at least on the level we now associate with 'sample music'. So IT takes the responsability. My point is that lots of other genre's also now use sampling, so use of samples doesn't make The Go! Team Hip-Hop.

[maxusy3k]

The only solid rap artist I've ever been able to stand is Eminem, which doesn't say much, I know... I think that since he raps about the stuff you hear so often in the press then it's easier to hook into the meaning and stuff. His last album was trash though, so I guess he's on the way out.

I enjoy some of the rap metal kind of stuff, older Limp Bizkit and stuff like that, but that's about as far as it goes. Personally I respect it because I can see the talent and skill involved in rapping, but other than that I don't particularly care for it.

[DeathrockZombie]

I'm a big fan of Masta Ace, and Nas's Illmatic.

~  B

[californaya]

All these have been mentioned already, but I'm just listing what I listen to:

Beastie Boys (To The 5 Boroughs wasn't horrible, but it was still not quite up to what I would expect from them, considering how great they once were.)
K-Os (B-Boy Stance is in my Top 5 favorite hip-hop songs EVAR.)
Handsome Boy Modeling School (White People is probably the greatest collabo project between rock and hip-hop ever done.)
Jurassic 5
M.I.A. (What Spencer said.)
The Streets (I LOVE THE STREETS. I'm a big fan of albums that tell a story {recent examples include the Mars Volta album and Green Day's American Idiot}, and A Grand Don't Come For Free actually tells one that is very easy to relate to. And their previous album, Original Pirate Material, is just a whole bunch of great hip-hop.)
Dizzee Rascal
Outkast (They are just a great hip-hop duo, with Stankonia probably being the epitome of their career, IMO.)

I think that's most of it.

[Luke]

I'm a newbie to this area of the forum, so I'll start off with a list too.

 - Dr. Dre
 - G-Unit (50 Cent, Tony Yayo, Young Buck, Lloyd Banks, The Game)
 - Eminem & D-12
 - Kanye West

There're a whole bunch of others whose albums I have & listen to, but those on this list are my top priorities.

[Druid]

so use of samples doesn't make The Go! Team Hip-Hop.

I sampleing was the only criteria for sampleing then MBV would be hip-hop.

[KharBevNor]

Don't know who the first person would be who made a song based on a sample of other people's music.  Maybe Afrika Bambaataa mashing-up two Kraftwerk tracks for "Planet Rock"?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_%28music%29

Early Precedents

In the 1940's, some Musique concrète composers utilized portions of other recordings to create new compositions.

In the 1950's, Bill Buchanan and Dickie Goodman released a song, "The Flying Saucers", which featured samples of various then-popular songs, all taken out of context from their original material and used as answers to a wacky reporter's question about spaceships from another planet. Goodman would later make a career out of similar "break-in" or "snippet" records, and is today considered one of the fathers of pop music sampling.

An interesting early use sampling was on Charlie Haden's 1969 release, Liberation Music Orchestra: A few of the album's numbers (such as "Song For Che") feature fragments of Gramophone recordings of songs from the Spanish civil war, but integrated as part of a new song.

1969 also saw "Revolution 9" from the Beatles' The White Album, composed partly of portions of orchestral recordings.

[Spencer]

If you ask me, the best beats right now are coming from the Pop groups. The Brittany's, the Justins, the N'Syncs and the like. I can certainly see where Druid is coming from, saying that mainstream rap beats are uninspired. I know there hasnt been a mainstream rap hit in a while that I've really latched on to.

But I definitly think that mainstream hip hop shines when it comes to it's dance tracks. Producers seem to really let loose and break out some really fun ass shaking stuff. "Crazy in Love" by Beyonce is probably one of the best examples of the past few years I can think of in regards to this ("Toxic" also immediatly springs to mind). And of course, Timbaland does/did some of his best work with Missy Elliot and Aliyah. And yes, I admit, that Usher remix with Lil' John is hot.

As an aside, I never got 50 cent. I guess I just cant stand his cadence.

[KharBevNor]

Thing I don't get is, how all you guys claim to like good, unique independent music, then go salivating over commercialised mainstream tripe.

If you want some beats, try Hanzel und Gretyl or old KMFDM. Them's beats you can move to.

Disintegrate the disintegrator! \m/

[happybirthdaygelatin]

I like music that I like.

KMFDM always reminds me of one of the Anne Gwish comics by Jhonen Vasquez with the MUST DANCE, FAVORITE SONG zombie like club people.

[Revenge_Therapist]

The Streets for an international hip hop flavor.
I was always a hige fan of Wu Tang
and here in Milwaukee we have a group called the Rust Pelicans that is just f-ing awseome.

[KharBevNor]

I like music that I like.

That's what I mean. Why don't you all just admit that, all in all, what you really like is stuff that sounds pretty much like what's on the radio, except with lyrics about Neitzsche and spatulas?

Also, all who do not dance when 'A Drug Against War' comes on are killed instantly by the goth police. They're like normal police, only mopier.

[Radiowar]

Brother Ali

Shadows Of The Sun was one of my favorite albums last year.

[MilkmanDan]

yeah it's a great album. Produced by Ant as well, so the Atmosphere beats can't be the problem, so clearly you just don't like Slug.

KharBevNor: Hey! How about you stop being a dick? "OMG My music is so more indie than yours! Your entire genre is a sellout compared to mine" Seriously, just stop it now, before things get out of hand.

Revenge_Therepist: Rusty Pelicansm, eh? Did 'All I Have' with Slug and DJ Abilities. Great song, but I never got listened to any of their other stuff.

[KharBevNor]

I would never, ever, ever use the phrase 'more indie than yours'*. I was just venting.
*Even though it's totally true. :p

[MilkmanDan]

yeah, I know you're just venting, but I thought it was important to nip any potential flame wars in the bud.
And it's not true at all. I've already offered to send you some Hip-Hop that you might be more interested in, you shouldn't go judging genre's when you don't know about them.

[KharBevNor]

I listened to some of it, I can't quite remember which, I deleted them, as I didn't like them and I'm reasonably tight on hard disk space.

I wasn't knocking hip-hop, more a sort of general point. Soz.

[jus]

Thing I don't get is, how all you guys claim to like good, unique independent music, then go salivating over commercialised mainstream tripe.

If you want some beats, try Hanzel und Gretyl or old KMFDM. Them's beats you can move to.

Disintegrate the disintegrator! \m/

Trying to explain hip hop to someone who doesn't feel it naturally, is, well, impossible.

KMFDM is certainly energetic, and it may be what you dance to, I've only heard one of their songs. I think I liked it; it was ages ago, but I'm not going to get dressed up, go to a club, get my drink on and dance up on somebody to one of their songs.

Shit, I'm trying to put a feeling into words here and failing miserably. Hip hop is about confidence, not always anger and not necessarily always aggression, it's about feeling like the smoothest motherfucker in a club (even if you aren't, I most certainly am not). It's about poppin' and lockin', even when you have more lock than pop. I just helped organize this on-campus event for a cultural group, and we invited this troop of b-boys and girls to perform, it was amazing! Everyone got up on their feet when they were deep into their routine. A lot of it is about sex too, now that I think about it. Take a peek inside any hip hop club the next time you happen to pass one by.

As an aside, I do love me a good mosh pit or house club etc... but those are different experiences entirely.

[KharBevNor]

Don't worry, I understand how difficult it is to explain you're favoured music to someone who doesn't 'get it'. Everyone normally has one or two genres or styles that, when done right, just get something inside them.

[a pack of wolves]

I keep meaning to investigate grime more. I keep listening to the tape I have of Jon E Cash's set on the Peel tribute night, but I never know what's good to get in that genre.

[Radiowar]

yeah it's a great album. Produced by Ant as well, so the Atmosphere beats can't be the problem, so clearly you just don't like Slug.

Yeah I know. I like Ant's production (for the most part).

[besmircher]

I can't remember what site I was on, but there was a guy who said that Led Zep sucked and rap ruled, then another person chimed in with this gem:

'Y'all are gay if you don't like Led Zeppelin. All rap is is some black person talking gay.'

A masterpiece. Totally true too.

I think the only thing perfect about that is how absolutely the Zep fan matched the idiocy of the post to which he was responding.

Actually, it's probably easier to dismiss Led Zeppelin than the entire genre of rap on the grounds of artistic merit and social influence. I mean, I like them pretty well and all, and they were a very important band, but they weren't THAT monolithic.

[besmircher]

Oh, and for those who have been posting about DJ Shadow and RJD2 and whoever else, I'd like to add Prefuse 73, whose concert I missed tonight, thanks to my boss' love of scheduling me on days that I request off.