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[Praeserpium Machinarum]

in that case, he was looking in the wrooong place, I mean there isn't anything *real* in there...I am being so unwitty...

[Inlander]

Yeah - not so much love under there, as a whole lot of irrational fear and hatred . . .

[KharBevNor]

No I'm serious I don't get it.

They're not allowed to do ingest anything particularly fun or play doctors and nurses.

They have to do something!

Warning! Drastic overgeneralisation ALERT.

[a pack of wolves]

I'm pretty sure you have to kill the calf to get the stuff outta its stomach... But I could be wrong?

No, I'm pretty sure that's right. You can get vegetarian cheese though, rennet isn't essential since there's some kind of synthesised substitute.

Khar, some vegans do argue that milking cows is akin to rape. Personally I disagree, it's the treatment of the animals and their needless slaughter I dislike so I stick to the soy. And on the subject of veganism, one of my reasons is that it generally leaves a smaller 'ecological footprint' and since I'm rather fond of wilderness and bio-diversity it seems like a good idea to me.

[Schmung]

Lifes far too short to not enjoy meat, dairy products, booze and so forth. Sod leaving a better world for your grandchildren, theres far too much money to be made by raping hte world, so why fight it. Truly, apathy is a wonderful thing, well, more like realism really but it amounts to basically the same thing.

I've never understood the whole straight edge thing, seems like denying yourself pleasure for the visceral thrill of feeling superior to other people who are, you know, so much less aware of the worlds plight and the dangers of alcohol, drugs and sex than you are. Feck off, I'm perfectly aware thank you very bloody much, which is part of the reason I indulge.

Like anything really, keep it to yourself and don't bother me with it and I'm ok with it, but the moment someone start to try forcing their lifestyle and/or beliefs on me I start to get very, very twitchy indeed and hippy ass
vegan killjoys seem to be among the worst people for doing that. Right up there with fundamentalist religous nuts. And those people who raise their children to be vegans and then freak out when their kids eat a burger at school. Ignoring the probably dicey quality of the burger for a moment, if your childs chosen to eat it then fuck off and leave them alone, it's not like they've decided to become a neo-nazi or something. Parents have actually sued schools for that, it's absurd.

ahem, I'm done.

[24_hour_revenge_therapy]

WHAT IS UP WITH KIDS PUNCHING EACH OTHER AT GIGS AND OR SHOWS

WHAT IS UP

WITH THAT

ok, we'll start with you.

because, and i'm gonna explain this one, that's how we dance.

hardcore kids don't mosh the same way a metal kid does.  they have a more laid back, push push shove shove type thing.  punk kids kinda do that, with a slam or a pogo thrown in.  we like to throw kicks.  punches.  i have one friend that cartwheels into crowds.  call it adrenaline.  call it masochism.  hell if i know.  i'm not into it, but honestly, theres no anger attached to it.  i've been knocked fucking senseless by my best friend.  it happens.  if you don't wanna get hit, just stay away from the pit.  it's that simple.

[24_hour_revenge_therapy]

Lifes far too short to not enjoy meat, dairy products, booze and so forth. Sod leaving a better world for your grandchildren, theres far too much money to be made by raping hte world, so why fight it. Truly, apathy is a wonderful thing, well, more like realism really but it amounts to basically the same thing.

I've never understood the whole straight edge thing, seems like denying yourself pleasure for the visceral thrill of feeling superior to other people who are, you know, so much less aware of the worlds plight and the dangers of alcohol, drugs and sex than you are. Feck off, I'm perfectly aware thank you very bloody much, which is part of the reason I indulge.

Like anything really, keep it to yourself and don't bother me with it and I'm ok with it, but the moment someone start to try forcing their lifestyle and/or beliefs on me I start to get very, very twitchy indeed and hippy ass
vegan killjoys seem to be among the worst people for doing that. Right up there with fundamentalist religous nuts. And those people who raise their children to be vegans and then freak out when their kids eat a burger at school. Ignoring the probably dicey quality of the burger for a moment, if your childs chosen to eat it then fuck off and leave them alone, it's not like they've decided to become a neo-nazi or something. Parents have actually sued schools for that, it's absurd.

ahem, I'm done.

ok, so, you basically say that you hate it when sxe kids/vegans start shoving their ideals down your throat.

MAN do i agree with you.  

that is the most fucked up thing ANYONE can do.  yeah, i'm sxe, yeah, i'm vegan.  i'm proud to be both.  i honestly think that both are the best way's to live life.  but, in the end, that's MY opinion.  how you live your life is up to you, and if you do it differently, and your happy, and your not hurting anyone else, then more power to you.  

and, just to get this out of the way, one of my favorite things to do is to go and hang out in a pub with my sister.  play cards.  i just drink coffee, and she drinks alcohol.  so, yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.

[jeph]

I think we can all agree that coffee is awesome.

IF YOU DO NOT AGREE THAT COFFEE IS AWSOME I WILL RAIN DEATH DOWN UPON YOU

[MilkmanDan]

Given that I don't listen to any hardcore or punk or anything like that I haven't really had much experience with these straight edge kids. So, I don't really care. I guess as long as they aren't being dicks about it then it's all good.
in fact, I've got just concocted an amazing theory. It's not good when crap like this becomes your defining characteristic. It's always when people decide to define themselves through something like straightedge, or christianity, that they become dicks about it. That's the difference between "I don't eat animal products" and "I'm Vegan".

Yeah.

On a side note, I might have been acosted by a straightedge kid once, in line for a Hip-Hop gig, suprisingly enough. Quannum it was. This guy just came up to me and started telling me to stop drinking and smoking (I was doing neither) because they made people violent. He was getting really angry about it and stuff. I don't actually know if he was straightedge, so he might have just been crazy.

[24_hour_revenge_therapy]

Given that I don't listen to any hardcore or punk or anything like that I haven't really had much experience with these straight edge kids. So, I don't really care. I guess as long as they aren't being dicks about it then it's all good.
in fact, I've got just concocted an amazing theory. It's not good when crap like this becomes your defining characteristic. It's always when people decide to define themselves through something like straightedge, or christianity, that they become dicks about it. That's the difference between "I don't eat animal products" and "I'm Vegan".

Yeah.

On a side note, I might have been acosted by a straightedge kid once, in line for a Hip-Hop gig, suprisingly enough. Quannum it was. This guy just came up to me and started telling me to stop drinking and smoking (I was doing neither) because they made people violent. He was getting really angry about it and stuff. I don't actually know if he was straightedge, so he might have just been crazy.

oh, i agree with you.  like i said in an earlier post, straightedge is a characteristic that i define myself by, not my defining characteristic.  there's all sorts of other interesting things about me that make me me.  it's just that i've got sxe stuff tattooed all over me, so that's the one i seem to talk about the most...oh well.

and i'd say that guy was just crazy.  CRAZY LIKE A FOX!!!

ok, that made no sense.

[24_hour_revenge_therapy]

I think we can all agree that coffee is awesome.

IF YOU DO NOT AGREE THAT COFFEE IS AWSOME I WILL RAIN DEATH DOWN UPON YOU

DEAR GOD i love coffee.  like seriously, it's a pretty well known fact in my group of friends that talking to me before my morning coffee is pretty much a death sentence.  

which of course brings about the question "but that's a drug, doesn't that make you a hypocrite blah blah blah"

well, no.  see, there's a lot of ambiguity when it comes to caffeine, tylenol, ny-quil, that sort of thing.  it was pretty much decided in the sxe community a while ago that that sort of thing was up to the individual to decide how they felt about it.  like i said, i have friends who REFUSE to ingest caffeine, of any sort.  me, i like coffee, i like chocolate.  it's tasty.  i never have more than two cups a day (well, sometimes three.  eh, i'm a wildman).  in my mind, it's about self-destructive behavior.  if i was drinking SO much coffee every day, that it started to effect who i was, then i'd stop.  but it doesn't.  even in the morning, i'm just grumpy cuz i'm awake and the world hasn't ended yet (despite my prayers.  DAMN YOU JOE PESCI!!  DAMN YOU TO HELL!!!), not because i haven't had my coffee yet.  that's all.

[nickyandthefuture]

OMG TEA IS BETTAR.

[Robbo]

As a Brit, I have legal power to comfirm that fact. Doubly so when you add crumpets into the equation as well.

[negative creep]

tea IS better

[zekterellium]

nothing goes together better than tea, crumpets, and a warm sunday afternoon. awesome.

straight edge is the most hypotrical self-rightous mass of misguided stupid it's ever been my complete lack of fortune to be unable to avoid. you know how many gnits you kill when you wash your hair? you know the damage they do to the environment just making the lousy cd's you dance ridiculously to? gah, i'm a cynic. i'd love to talk about this with you in more detail.

[24_hour_revenge_therapy]

first off, no, tea sucks, you crumpet munching bastards .

secondly, well, yeah.  you kill things no matter what.  i just killed thousands upon millions of microscopic organisms by BREATHING.  that's unavoidable.  i like washing my hair.  clean smells attract girls.  my problem is not with killing, or death.  that is a natural thing.  my problem is with the factory farming and the dairy industry.  my problem is with the ecological rape that both of these industries perform on a daily basis.  my problem is that, in the end, their methods  are NOT natural, and in fact help to hurt the very people that they serve.  i have always stated that if we were to ever go back to a hunter/gatherer society, then i would happily eat meat again.  but, seeing as that's not going to happen, i'm gonna be vegan.

third, you made a pretty strong anti-edge statement, but didn't really give any reasons why you didn't like sxe.  you railed mainly against veganism.  why do you dislike straightedge?

[Robbo]

*Chips in*

Straight Edgers suck because I get called one evertime I tell someone I dont drink, smoke or do drugs. It's mainly the not drinking thing. Lots of people seem to think I'm sXe rather than think I just dont drink because I dont want to.

[24_hour_revenge_therapy]

yeah.  that sucks.  being labeled something that your not is never, ever fun.  personally, though, i hate the reaction i get when i'm hanging out with people who DO drink, and i tell them that i DON'T.  they get all...twitchy.  like i'm calling them terrible people.  kind of makes me wonder if they have some latent guilt about drinking, and if they do, why.  it's just wierd.

[Johnny C]

I don't smoke, drink, do drugs, or sleep around. I do, however, consider hardcore dancing to be "retarded," to put it politely.

Also, hardline straight-edgers are assholes.

[nickyandthefuture]

I don't smoke, drink, do drugs, or whatever.  I'm also a vegan.  I don't see how the two things have anything to do with each other.
With the drinking thing, it's really never been a problem - if someone offers me a beer, I say, "no, thanks."  That's pretty much the end of it.  I don't expect anyone to suck my dick because of the things I don't do.
People get a little weird about meat, but not being an asshole makes even the most awkward social events navigable.  Also, I've talked about the vegan thing on this board before, so I'm not going to bore everyone by going into it again...

[zekterellium]

i don't know, i guess i have no right to dislike you guys becasue you've never crossed me personally, it's just when you come to a festival SPONSORED by a beer company and whine, it makes me want to break things.

[Robbo]

With me, the drinking thing, I just get asked why I dont alot. But I always make it clear it's me that doesn't like to drink but I dont care about other people and I'm not out to ruin fun.

I'll go down the pub, laugh at my mates getting pissed then remind them of the horrible things I did in the morning.

[Praeserpium Machinarum]

Well I don't drink, do drugs or smoke either, but that is just taste mainly, fx. alcohol tastes like shit, drugs are the equivalent of kneecapping yourself and then getting abstinences and shooting the other knee=idiotic, same thing with smoking. Coffee smells weird, I wouldn't touch it with a stick even at a safe distance and Tea, just boiled warm water, has no taste whatsoever...

I still don't understand this straightedge thing, but that is probably because none of this exists in Denmark, there is metalheads and that's it.

[Robbo]

Lucky you. Tea tastes great, stop drinking cheap stuff you fool And yes booze tastes like crap, another fine reason not to drink.

[Kai]

Tea, just boiled warm water, has no taste whatsoever...

You're obviously not making it right, because Tea rocks your socks with flavor.

[Robbo]

Is drinking tea right now!



See! You can even see the QC forum posting page in the background.

[24_hour_revenge_therapy]

I don't smoke, drink, do drugs, or whatever.  I'm also a vegan.  I don't see how the two things have anything to do with each other.
With the drinking thing, it's really never been a problem - if someone offers me a beer, I say, "no, thanks."  That's pretty much the end of it.  I don't expect anyone to suck my dick because of the things I don't do.
People get a little weird about meat, but not being an asshole makes even the most awkward social events navigable.  Also, I've talked about the vegan thing on this board before, so I'm not going to bore everyone by going into it again...

being edge and being vegan are mutually exclusive.  i have really good friends that are edge, and eat meat.  i have good friends that are vegan and drink.  i just mentioned that i was vegan, and people started asking me all about it.

and i don't expect people to start sucking my dick because i'm edge (would that even work? "hey baby, i'm straightedge" "ohmygod!!  lets go to my car so i can slobber on your soldier!!" yeah, i don't think so), it's just an important part of who i am.  i like to talk about it.  if people don't wanna talk about it, i'm also a writer, i love to read, music is pretty much the fundemental reason for my being, and i like comics and cartoons.

if anyone wants to talk about that, lemme know.

[fin]

the individual tenets(sp?) of straightedge-ness as i understand*, such as not drinking, smoking, sleeping around etc are stand up ideas and i have respcect for anybody that follows them. What i find silly (dumb silly) is the whole religiion** aspect of it, and the idea of breaking edge and excluding somebody from your club who doesnt share youre *exact**** beliefs. maybe i'm missing the point or maybe all the sXe's are****.

*i probally dont.
**not as in god, but as is system of belief.
***i may be wrong, im in a mildly drunken philisophical mood.
****is it true that the whole X thing sstarted with showing solidarity to the underage kids at gigs, if so, its a cool idea taken to a silly extreme.

[24_hour_revenge_therapy]

ok, we'll start with you.

because, and i'm gonna explain this one, that's how we dance.

hardcore kids don't mosh the same way a metal kid does.  they have a more laid back, push push shove shove type thing.  punk kids kinda do that, with a slam or a pogo thrown in.  we like to throw kicks.  punches.  i have one friend that cartwheels into crowds.  call it adrenaline.  call it masochism.  hell if i know.  i'm not into it, but honestly, theres no anger attached to it.  i've been knocked fucking senseless by my best friend.  it happens.  if you don't wanna get hit, just stay away from the pit.  it's that simple.

Thank you for starting with me and thank you for answering my query. I still do not get it though, that I will admit. The issue is further confused by the straightedge couple I live with, who insist that "there is no actual hitting - everybody has their own space", until they are in the presence of other S-X-E (straight/edge) people when they are suddenly like "HELL YES THAT WAS AWESOME I KICKED A STRANGER'S JAW CLEAN OFF TONIGHT". They are good people who I wish well for in my heart but they kind of turn into raving arseharpies around the issue of their subculture.

Yours in puzzlement,
James
x<--- this is a kiss not a sXe cross or like "exxed-up" hands or whatever. I'm not gay though, I swear.

haha.  glad i could *kinda* clear things up.  sounds like you live with a couple of people who are a little hypocritical.  my friends GLEEFULLY admit to the fact that they usually aim at people.  me, actually.  they usually aim at me.  my friends suck.  anywho, yeah, it's a pretty macho thing, and honestly, i'm not really into it.  but, at the same time, as long as everyone is having a good old time, i don't really care.  if someone is standing RIGHT NEXT TO the pit, and start complaining about getting hit, well, that's stupid.  stand up front, or in the back.  that's where i go.

[24_hour_revenge_therapy]

the individual tenets(sp?) of straightedge-ness as i understand*, such as not drinking, smoking, sleeping around etc are stand up ideas and i have respcect for anybody that follows them. What i find silly (dumb silly) is the whole religiion** aspect of it, and the idea of breaking edge and excluding somebody from your club who doesnt share youre *exact**** beliefs. maybe i'm missing the point or maybe all the sXe's are****.

*i probally dont.
**not as in god, but as is system of belief.
***i may be wrong, im in a mildly drunken philisophical mood.
****is it true that the whole X thing sstarted with showing solidarity to the underage kids at gigs, if so, its a cool idea taken to a silly extreme.

well, you've stumbled onto one of the more difficult points of being sxe.  what DO you do with someone who sells out (that's my term, btw)?  well, theyre not sxe anymore.  sorry.  it's just that simple.  you can be drug free, or not drink, or whatever, but if your edge and you start to drink, your not edge anymore.  i usually liken it to buddism.  not that they really have anything in common, just that they're both a lifestyle, a choice.  and once you stop living that lifestyle, then your no longer sxe, and you never will be again.  i'll still be your friend, just please don't claim edge.

of course, this is my personal philosphy.  don't take this as the be all and end all of sxe belief.

[Patatat]

Straightedge is fucking retarded.

YAY I AM SO PROUD OF MYSELF BECAUSE I FOLLOW AN ABRITRARILY DETERMINED LIFESTYLE NOW LET ME BLATHER ON ABOUT IT FOR HOURS AT A TIME

Seriously. You don't drink or smoke or whatever? Cool, good for you. But the minute you come up with a catchphrase for your lifestyle I begin to lose respect.

Hehe as the emo's say


Patatat <3 Jeph

[a pack of wolves]

hardcore kids don't mosh the same way a metal kid does.  they have a more laid back, push push shove shove type thing.  punk kids kinda do that, with a slam or a pogo thrown in.  we like to throw kicks.  punches.  i have one friend that cartwheels into crowds.  call it adrenaline.  call it masochism.  hell if i know.  i'm not into it, but honestly, theres no anger attached to it.  i've been knocked fucking senseless by my best friend.  it happens.  if you don't wanna get hit, just stay away from the pit.  it's that simple.

On behalf of other hardcore guys I feel compelled to point out that this is NOT how we dance. That's how macho tough guys dance, and it's just plain dumb.

"So we don't dance because the pit's no fun. Kids are standing at the back and they're not coming to the shows. They don't want to get involved and these problems must be solved... You might be tough but it's you we reject because we don't want to see our scene wrecked. Windmill kickbox another kid's down. Learnt to move to the back of the crowd."
- HHH, 'Pitbull'

[KharBevNor]

Ooh, actually, that's a point.

Whilst I have no real objection to Hardcore kids dancing however they like.

I wish they would only do it at hardcore shows.

[24_hour_revenge_therapy]

yeah, well, that's always a problem when metal and hardcore kids get together.  different styles of dancing.

and wolves, umm, i hate to break it to you, but EVERYWHERE i've gone, thats how kids dance.  maybe it's different in the uk, but in the us, that's how it's gone.  at least in my experience.

[a pack of wolves]

You do get it here, but I find it hard to believe that's the only way it's done in the US since I've seen footage of US gigs where people are moshing without being dumb. Sorry, but all that violent dancing stuff is moronic. If you want to go smack your friends about do it outside and leave the gigs for those of us who're there to appreciate the music and mosh the way it's meant to be done.

[24_hour_revenge_therapy]

could be.  i've never seen it.  maybe i'm only going to violent shows.

[KharBevNor]

So, I was at a metal gig, and this metalcore band were playing support. The musics slacked off and most of the people are out the pit but there's this hardcore kid  running around the pit basically sort of slamming into people at the sides (who weren't in the pit) and pushing off them. Really annoying.

Anyway. He slams into this big guy in an Impaled Nazarene shirt. Spills his pint.

Big guy hands the remains of his pint to his mate and then just runs sideways and slams into the hardcore kid SO HARD that he actually flies six or so feet into the side of the pit.

Goes back, finishes his pint. Hardcore kid not seen in pit again.

Don't know what the moral of that story was, but it was damn funny.

[Mnementh]

I'm a little confused here.  Before we started talking about fighting at shows, how was this about music?

Secondly, since when was there a "straightedge" label.  And why do we care?

[24_hour_revenge_therapy]

well, it was kind of a six degrees thing.  straightedge was a philosophy born out of music.  and this thread started because of another thread that was about music and...you get the picture.  

and you don't have to care.  not my problem.  i was just trying to clear up any misconceptions people may have had. just trying to be friendly.

oh, and khar, yeah.  that is funny.

[KharBevNor]

I saw someone try to windmill whilst drunk once as well.

Actually, thinking back on that, I think I see why hardcore dancing and no drinking go together so well.

[24_hour_revenge_therapy]

yeah, it definately takes a certain amount of coordination.  just trying to imagine someone windmilling while drunk...yeah, that's damn funny.

[kikanjuuneko]

Funny, because here in Sweden, it's usually the crust-punks that throw themselves into crowds. I do not want your spikes or cigarettes on me, thank you.

I must admit I do like the whole macho-style mosh thing, but people need to realize it requires some basic fucking hand-eye coordination, and isn't actually about hitting people.

[normz]

Maybe it's just me being the spawn of Satan and all but i have to admit i got a hell of alot of satisfaction from turning a 'straight edge' guy pretty crooked ........ now he drinks and eats meat and well as for sex *giggles* yeah he does that too..... yes yes i am demonic i know and I should be using my looks which are deemed attractive by the majority of society for good and not evil; but evil is so much more fun

[Schmung]

One more : Why are you always refrerring to straightedge as sxe? THERE'S NO FUCKING X THERE?!?! AHGRHGAHGRHGRA etc

Ok, I'm done.

[MilkmanDan]

I don't expect anyone to suck my dick because of the things I don't do.

Well that's where you're going wrong. If you sort your attitude problems out, you too could be straight edge!
I mean, XStraightXedgeX

[nickyandthefuture]

XhoorayX!  XAlso, is sxe pronounced "sexy"?X

Oh, and to try and make this thread have something to do with music... I listened to that Earth Crisis band once and I giggled.  Is that the appropriate reaction?

[Robbo]

"I want your sXe. *Unzips pants*" to rip off someone from another board.

[a pack of wolves]

XhoorayX!  XAlso, is sxe pronounced "sexy"?X

Oh, and to try and make this thread have something to do with music... I listened to that Earth Crisis band once and I giggled.  Is that the appropriate reaction?

Pretty much, they really are totally ridiculous but the early stuff is quite fun to listen to in a jokey way. Firestorm has a good riff, but it really did sound better when Reversal of Man nicked it for 'Get The Kid With The Sideburns'.

[daneford]

Straightedge is fucking retarded.

YAY I AM SO PROUD OF MYSELF BECAUSE I FOLLOW AN ABRITRARILY DETERMINED LIFESTYLE NOW LET ME BLATHER ON ABOUT IT FOR HOURS AT A TIME

Seriously. You don't drink or smoke or whatever? Cool, good for you. But the minute you come up with a catchphrase for your lifestyle I begin to lose respect.

Mother fucking OWNED!

[kikanjuuneko]

Or, you know, not.

XhoorayX! XAlso, is sxe pronounced "sexy"?X

Nope.

THERE'S NO FUCKING X THERE?!?! AHGRHGAHGRHGRA etc

I'm not edge myself, so I'm no expert, but I always thought it was some sort of portmanteau (I can't think of a better word) involving the X that edgers wear on the back of their hands.