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Author Topic: Macs  (Read 22795 times)

Symp

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« on: 27 Apr 2005, 17:54 »

This may be a noob question, but what I want to know is, why do some of you think that Mac's are better than PC's?
I want to here both sides of this argument and dont want it to be a flame war between PC and Mac people.

Ok, everyone know the rules?
Go.
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ForteBass

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« Reply #1 on: 27 Apr 2005, 17:57 »

Eh. It all depends on what you're doing and how you use them.
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est

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« Reply #2 on: 27 Apr 2005, 20:50 »

before this degenerates into a PC vs Mac flamewar, they both have their good and bad points.  there is generally a larger number of games released for Windows than Mac, and the games released for Mac are generally released on Windows first, then Mac later.  there are some notable exceptions like titles from id, Blizzard and other quality studios who respect and encourage the Mac as an alternate gaming platform.

it used to be that if you wanted to do anything creative you got a Mac.  i believe that this was because the monitors on the Mac were fairly superior to those you would (normally) get with a PC.  i think that this is because Apple doesn't fuck around when it comes to hardware.  it only makes/gets made good stuff.  on the PC side you're normally using whatever the hell monitor your employer wants to pay for, which is usually a shitty cheap pc/monitor.  it is my solid opinion that if you shelled out the cash for a hi-quality monitor and sound card for your PC then you would have a machine that is in every way equal to the audio/visual creation task you want to perform.

nowdays i believe that the "if you want to do something creative you get a Mac" idea is mostly due to advertising, styling and brand loyalty than anything else.  perhaps also because Macs are simpler to set up and use, and creative people normally aren't necessarily techy people, nor do they have the inclination to learn.  they just want to plug it in and for it to work, because it's a tool.  (unlike some techy people, i totally understand this mindset.  i do not know how to maintain my car, for example).

so yeah, i hope that helps.  i guess that the short answer could probably have been "it used to be that if you wanted to play games you'd get a PC, and if you wanted to work or learn you'd get a Mac, but now the lines are getting a little blurry ad Windows becomes more stable and more games are released on the Mac".
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Wevah

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Macs
« Reply #3 on: 29 Apr 2005, 11:51 »

Because we Mac users don't use the grocer's apostrophe?

:P
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Matteh99

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Macs
« Reply #4 on: 29 Apr 2005, 17:54 »

I am fairly new to the mac.  Before I was a windows person and pretty much a power user.  I switched to the mac because there are no viruses and spy ware for the mac.  Also windows xp pisses me off.  I hate the fisher price interface, the cute dog that searches for your files, the popup that says you have un used icon's on your desktop etc.

I still use my PC almost every day for programing a micro processor which the mac can't do.  Or at least can't do easialy.

For the general consumer I think mac's are better because most people use their computers for internet, email, and word processing.  The mac does that just fine and with infinitly less chance of getting scewed up by viruses or spyware.

Also working as a PC technition in a mac store it really showed me how much easier sofware problems are to solve on the mac.  Most OS-X issues can be solved by doing an achive and install.  All user settings get transfured back, in most cases you don't have to reinstall any of the programs it just works.

The programs that come with the mac are also pretty darn cool.  Most programs bundled with PC's suck but the mac ones actually are worth having.

In case any one is interested I did a bunch of benchmarks between a dell and a mac mini.  http://www.macsupportpro.com/~eric

Eric
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will: wanton sex god

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« Reply #5 on: 29 Apr 2005, 20:01 »

^ i wish as a technician you learned to spell the profession correctly O_O





i am a troll.
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will: wanton sex god

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« Reply #6 on: 29 Apr 2005, 20:06 »

in other news, the tests were helpful.
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Matteh99

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Macs
« Reply #7 on: 29 Apr 2005, 20:26 »

Yeah I suck at spelling...  I normally run my posts through word or some such thing but I was rushing a bit.

Another reason to use a Unix / Linux based system.  Root is easier to spell than administrator :-P

Eric
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Druid

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Macs
« Reply #8 on: 29 Apr 2005, 22:34 »

Quote from: Matteh99
Also windows xp pisses me off.  I hate the fisher price interface, the cute dog that searches for your files, the popup that says you have un used icon's on your desktop etc.


You can turn those off rather easily. Actually very easily.
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Druid

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« Reply #9 on: 29 Apr 2005, 23:24 »

It really does depend on what you need to do.

If you need to interface with other Macs or need a Unix-compatible workstation with a nice looking interface then Macs are it.

If you want the Mac lifestyle then buy a Mac.

If you need to interface with a Windows network, other windows machines, and have a limited need to connect to Unix boxs get Windows and install the Services for Unix.

If you want a Unix-compatible workstation on x86 or PPC hardware that can be absolutely annoyingly broken at times then run Linux.

There really isn't a compelling reason for either side. x86 hardware (Motherboard, CPU) can be picked up pretty much where ever while PPC hardware is only available through Apple.

I like PCs because the hardware is readily available, and I'm not stuck with whatever designs Apple decides on. I'm stuck with whatever some Korean designer decides on. :P
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Matteh99

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Macs
« Reply #10 on: 30 Apr 2005, 00:33 »

Yeah I know how to turn then off.  But almost every day I work on computers that aren't mine and don't have them turned off.  So just at least a few times a week I have to turn off the little dog etc.  I feel like it assumes that I am a moron...  It's really just a pet peeve.  I guess my main reason for not liking windows is that I see so many really screwed up windows computers.  We have had computers with 512 megs of ram and 3ghz p4 processors that barely turn on because of all of the crap on them.  I honestly have never had a serious problem with viruses or spyware my windows machine.  I guess windows has gotten associated with all of the computers that are full of crap.  Crap meaning free aol and msn trials, spy ware, viruses, animated dogs, happy paper clips, pop up windows saying I need to clean my desktop.  When i think of XP I donít think happy thoughts...  The mac makes things easy with out treating me like a moron and I can also do really techie things.  Like use the terminal to edit the SMB config file to set up different share points.  Or compile open source software.
There are things I donít like about the mac to.  Stupid one button mice, mine is still in the original plastic sitting in my desk drawer.  No eject button for the CDROM, I like the keyboard command but I want a button to.  Lack of ram on base models..  And a few other things i canít think of right now.
Before I got a new computer I debated building my own PC and running linux on it or buying a mac.  I ran linux on my old computer and was able to do every thing I wanted to accept use my iPod.  Ok I could do it but not very well.  Linux is cool but drivers are a pain and so is finding software.  The main reason for me getting a mac was I got a refurb one for $1099 and then $200 off because I was and Apple product professional last year.  So thatís 899 for a 17 inch imac.  Pretty darn good deal if you ask me.  :)
It is really personal preference, if you donít know if you want a Mac or a PC go demo them.  Also figure out what you need to do with your computer.  Asking which is better without any qualifiers brings out all sorts of opinions based on things that may not apply to you.  Like mine, if you get a nicely setup windows machine and keep every thing up to date and donít download ďfreeĒ crap you will probably be happy and wonít run into any of the things that piss me off about windows.  Or you might get some one who hates mac because their grandmaís bondi imac with 32 megs of ram is slow.  Or some one who hates windows because of a bad windows 95 experience.
Eric
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captainawesome

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Macs
« Reply #11 on: 30 Apr 2005, 10:35 »

In my experience, high end macs are better than high end PCs, while when it comes to the lower to middle quality machines, PCs are frequently better and cheaper.  I actually started on Macs, so I just stay with what I'm confortable with.  My dual 2 gig G5 w/ 1.4 gigs of ram runs better than any PC I've ever used, but then I have a 6 year old Pentium 2 lying around that runs much better than the same age iMacs that are all over my school.

Personal preference, really.  If money isn't an issue, I would suggest a Mac, however PCs tend to give you a lot more for your money.

Or maybe I'm just retarded. It's quite possible.
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Mnementh

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« Reply #12 on: 30 Apr 2005, 13:41 »

OMG MACS VERSUS TEH WINDOWS.  This is so 1996.

Seriously, it comes down to personal preference.  I use both, I prefer Apple's machines, I've been using them longer.

I can do anything on my powerbook that I can on my windows boxen.  So, I give this topic a resounding "meh" and further lower the level of discourse.
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Druid

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« Reply #13 on: 30 Apr 2005, 17:47 »

Quote from: Matteh99
But almost every day I work on computers that aren't mine and don't have them turned off.


That's why I refuse to work on machines outside of a structured environment. Unless we're friendly I'm going to flat out say no to working on machines that aren't owned by my employer. Roaming profiles are nice. :)

I used to really like Apples until OS X came out. I see it as a step down from OS 9 in 90% of the instances.
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captainawesome

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« Reply #14 on: 01 May 2005, 06:27 »

OS 9 better than OS X?

For me, OS 9 had the stability of a heroine addict, while OS X, in however many years I've been using it, has yet to have crashed. Ever.

I suppose the interface was nicer, but that's really a preference.

*shrug*
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tehpie

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« Reply #15 on: 01 May 2005, 14:20 »

Yeah, seriously man. I don't think I've ever seen such a bugged up os like OS 9. Except maybe windows ME ;)
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Johnny C

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« Reply #16 on: 01 May 2005, 14:24 »

I used old-skool Macs in elementary school. Not quite Apple II but only a step or so higher. Some of them were like the black-and-white monitors. Some were original iMacs. CURVED COLOURBOXES YAY!
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broken_blue

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its a personal taste thing, really
« Reply #17 on: 01 May 2005, 14:33 »

Yeah i used a Macintosh SE in elementary school and have been partial to macs ever since. I just think they're nicer because from my experience at least they crash less.
It just seems to me that pcs are lower-quality in most every aspect. But I have plenty of friends who would swear that they are superior... most of them just happen to be gamers.
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Johnny C

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« Reply #18 on: 01 May 2005, 14:49 »

You misunderstood my post. The Macs I used were crap.
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Druid

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« Reply #19 on: 01 May 2005, 19:18 »

Quote from: captainawesome
For me, OS 9 had the stability of a heroine addict, while OS X, in however many years I've been using it, has yet to have crashed. Ever.

I suppose the interface was nicer, but that's really a preference.


Kernel wise OS X is a major improvement, but that is the 10% that is better.
I really like the old Mac UI which really is just a preference.
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McTaggart

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« Reply #20 on: 02 May 2005, 03:47 »

I'm sure there's a way to change that.
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Druid

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« Reply #21 on: 02 May 2005, 04:31 »

Go back to the old Mac UI, or the misunderstanding and crap Macs?
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-sam

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« Reply #22 on: 02 May 2005, 20:52 »

While I'm pretty OS-agnostic -- I've got a dual Xeon workstation in my cube at work, and a pimped out OC'ed Athlon box at home that sounds like a jet engine -- my avatar should be a pretty big hint where my true allegiance lies. ;)

I'm personally of the opinion that, all things being equal, if you're in the market for a general purpose personal computer buy a Mac.  They interoperate quite well with Windows these days and you don't have all the virus and spyware hassles.  Of course if you have a specific need that changes everything.

And if anyone's wondering, here's what I roll with.  I'm thinking about picking up a Mini to act as an iTunes repository for my album collection.

-sam
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McTaggart

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« Reply #23 on: 03 May 2005, 02:39 »

I'm thinking of etting a 15" powerbook g4 for all my photographic stuff. While I can achieve what I want on this machine, I could really use something portable (ie. not in a server case) that I can work on and isn't shared. I definately want my own computer.
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« Reply #24 on: 03 May 2005, 03:41 »

Quote from: McTaggart
I'm thinking of getting a 15" powerbook g4 for all my pornographic stuff



there, fixed.
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Inlander

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« Reply #25 on: 03 May 2005, 05:14 »

You see, now in my head Stewie is rubbing his genitals and saying "I'm thinking of getting a 15" powerbook g4 for all my pornographic stuff", and it's all just wrong.
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McTaggart

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« Reply #26 on: 04 May 2005, 01:32 »

You're a bad man, est. A bad, bad man.
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CamelFilters

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« Reply #27 on: 04 May 2005, 11:54 »

i get an almost daily "sugestion" at school from my teachers to get a mac but i've come to realise that the "macs for work" vs "pc's for fun" issues are things from the past. you can actually do work on a pc and have fun on a mac.

anyway, i think macs are over-stylish and under-upgradable. i mean i don't care if the damn machine has handles on top, i'm not planning to carry it around that often and i don't want to have to buy o whole new machine every 5 years. but i agree that they're hardware actually works better (faster and stabler although they crash as well - only in style, like all mac stuff) than the equivalent in a pc. dunno if it's just the way the software is coded but it's the truth. something that pisses me off is that apple stopped producing crt monitors, you cant do any propper image work on a tft piece of crap.


on the other hand, pc's are upgradable to an extreme that a mac is just not designed to and if you actually feel like having a powerfull pc you can customize it  for some (maybe alot) extra and actually get a better machine that any mac around. i'm not talking about moddin' it  cause that's just plain dumb.  oh, and they right click wich is a great advantage.

i'll have to submit to the mac propaganda someday but in the meantime i'll just hope that the linux geeks decide to start meking some really good authoring tools besides gimp.
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Wevah

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« Reply #28 on: 04 May 2005, 18:57 »

Quote from: captainawesome
For me, OS 9 had the stability of a heroine addict, while OS X, in however many years I've been using it, has yet to have crashed. Ever.

I had a kernel panic yesterday.

...Of course, it was my first in around a year and a half (or more), and my machine had been running for 60-90 days (I didn't check in ages)...so I'm not really complaining.
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Druid

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« Reply #29 on: 04 May 2005, 21:52 »

Quote from: CamelFilters
i agree that they're hardware actually works better (faster and stabler


I'm not sure if the hardware is faster or more stable then quality PC components. I think it's more that the OS and drivers are tied to the hardware and as such optimized to a very high degree.

One program highly optimized for the nuances of one specific piece of hardware is going to perform better then one program that is written for a broad base of hardware. Apple has two standard sets of hardware, and as such they can optimize to that narrow base. The same thing can be found in the PC world where multimedia applications are written specifically to take advantage of the instruction sets and quirks of the Pentium 4.
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Jenno

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« Reply #30 on: 05 May 2005, 06:10 »

Quote from: CamelFilters

... i think macs are over-stylish and under-upgradable. i mean i don't care if the damn machine has handles on top, i'm not planning to carry it around that often and i don't want to have to buy o whole new machine every 5 years.


That's so untrue its not funny, Macs typically have a longer useful lifetime than most pcs do. And they definately aren't under-upgradeable, a friend of mine still uses his G4 Cube that has been upgraded to 1500mhz. Case in point: http://www.macspeedzone.com
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CamelFilters

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« Reply #31 on: 05 May 2005, 07:13 »

can't really make double quotes so this will have to be like this...

druid, i agree to that. it's that my statement was based on empirical use of final cut pro vs adobe premiere pro on equivalent machines at school. what you said makes perfect sense.

jenno,

the lifespan of any machine depends on what you plan to do with it. if you want to write and surf the web, then yes, even a pc can last forever without any major upgrades. i actually cant argue to what you said cause i didn't bother to search properly in the site you mentioned and i don't know what he does on it as work. my point was that if you wanted you culd buy a pc and rebuild it slowly, piece-by-piece, along the years. when it comes to a mac, i still believe that there are strict limits.
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Druid

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« Reply #32 on: 05 May 2005, 16:04 »

I'd put Sony Vegas 6 against Final Cut Pro before I'd put Premiere against it.
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Johnny C

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« Reply #33 on: 05 May 2005, 17:01 »

Anyone remember these?


no school like the old-school
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-sam

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« Reply #34 on: 05 May 2005, 17:48 »

That's not old School.  This is old school:
:D

-sam
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Clara

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« Reply #35 on: 05 May 2005, 17:54 »

My iBook is really pretty. :)

EDIT: I mean, it's really freaking pretty.
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CamelFilters

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« Reply #36 on: 06 May 2005, 08:45 »

Quote from: Druid
I'd put Sony Vegas 6 against Final Cut Pro before I'd put Premiere against it.


we put vegas and soundforge against pro tools just for sound issues. vegas is not user-friendly for video and i don't really know how powerfull it is when it comes to video editing. anyway, premiere pro is somewhat of a knock-off of final cut. similar interface and the such.

btw, is vegas 6 already out?!?! damn, those guys issue software like bunnies. i guess i'll have to update in the summer, when my HD is going to be formated.

dont you love formating hard drives? it's the ultimate power-trip over your computer.
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CamelFilters

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« Reply #37 on: 06 May 2005, 08:51 »



representin' tha hood!!! :P
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Schmung

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« Reply #38 on: 06 May 2005, 10:12 »

Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but MAcs were generally considered to be better than PCs for design work because of the colour standardisation between the OS and hardware. Because everything is a MAC is pretty much Apple only, or goes through them at some point, it all conforms more strictly than PC stuff.
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Mnementh

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« Reply #39 on: 06 May 2005, 12:32 »

It's Mac, not MAC.  It isn't an acyonym, it is short for Macintosh.
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happybirthdaygelatin

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« Reply #40 on: 06 May 2005, 13:21 »

No no no.



-sam, I remember using those things in middle school.  I remember the teachers in high school had the one that Johnny posted.

I have no bias torward either and would enjoy any sort of personal computer for my pad.

(Dan, is the anal sex thing a Strange Love quote?)
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Mnementh

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« Reply #41 on: 06 May 2005, 13:38 »

Nope, my buddy made it up, I stole it from him.
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happybirthdaygelatin

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« Reply #42 on: 06 May 2005, 14:23 »

Ah.  Funny and kinda reminiscent of Dan Savage.

Some what topical, wasn't Myst originaly just for the Mac?
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Druid

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« Reply #43 on: 06 May 2005, 17:13 »

Quote from: CamelFilters
anyway, premiere pro is somewhat of a knock-off of final cut.

btw, is vegas 6 already out?!?!

dont you love formating hard drives? it's the ultimate power-trip over your computer.


Premiere vs. Vegas is probably a personal perference thing, and I happen to think Vegas is better then Premiere.

According to the site it is.

I hate having to format my hard drive. Backing everything up is a pain, and then I'll spend hours on end tweaking everything to get it back to where it was. Not to mention reinstalling all of the software that I had and drivers. :( I've had to do that recently.
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MilkmanDan

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« Reply #44 on: 07 May 2005, 04:58 »

Quote from: happybirthdaygelatin
Some what topical, wasn't Myst originaly just for the Mac?


Yup. I had that game on some old, old mac. Took me about 3 years to complete as well.
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Schmung

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« Reply #45 on: 07 May 2005, 06:29 »

Quote from: Mnementh
It's Mac, not MAC.  It isn't an acyonym, it is short for Macintosh.


YEs, I know, but I'm a terrible typist and was probably drunk at the time.
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Kanno

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« Reply #46 on: 08 May 2005, 02:19 »

Quote from: CamelFilters
we put vegas and soundforge against pro tools just for sound issues.


I rock the 17" G4 Powerbook, and I use pro tools all the time.  It's a powerful little box, when I'm out doing live sound I can run 18 tracks straight from the board into my powerbook just fine.  It could use a little bit more plug-in power, but it IS a laptop.

Other than that, I've had it for a while now, hasn't crashed yet.  It does everything I've asked it to flawlessly.  And it's nice and shiny.
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est

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« Reply #47 on: 08 May 2005, 05:10 »

Quote from: Jenno
Macs typically have a longer useful lifetime than most pcs do.


hardware is hardware, no matter which side of the fence you are from.  you can use it until it fails, then replace the bit that failed.  my friend is still quite happily using a p3-500 or something like that as a windows box.  sure, it's underpowered by today's standards, but it does everything that he wants.  the same dude is using something like a pentium mmx 200 as a linux server.  up until recently i was using a celeron 450 as a linux gateway/webserver box (hard drive failed, so i decided to be brave and move to a small formfactor setup). hardware doesn't have a use-by date, just a "will not work anymore once the magic smoke escapes" point :)
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ElRodente

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« Reply #48 on: 08 May 2005, 05:28 »

Quote from: -sam
That's not old School.  This is old school:
:D

-sam


that's not old school, that's a spoon
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CamelFilters

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« Reply #49 on: 08 May 2005, 07:56 »

Quote from: Druid
Premiere vs. Vegas is probably a personal perference thing, and I happen to think Vegas is better then Premiere.


se what you've done! you've put doubts in my fragile litle mind. now i'll just have to test vegas as soon as i stop depending on my school for propper hardware.
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