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[Signum_Tenebrae]

I'm glad you posted the link to anus.com Khar.  S.R. Prozak is a very well spoken man and really knows his metal.  I must admit I don't agree with him on every topic, and his writings some times get a bit arrogant, but overall he's very intelligent and anybody wanting to know anything about metal should visit anus.com.

My personal favorite style of metal is black metal, which can best be explained by, again, anus.com.

Perhaps the furthest evolution of metal music, black metal diverged from the mainstream by taking the hoarse and bassy vocals of death metal and turning them into an inhuman hiss, accompanied by fast music in which elegant, Romantic melodies were discernible amidst the chaos. It also embraced dangerous thoughts explicitly; where previous generations of metal protested society or reminded people that death was more predominant than sociopolitical reality, black metal rejected modernity entirely and espoused a feral, naturalistic spirit. It also got itself in the news for the burning churches, neo-Nazi doctrine, murders and suicides of its musicians. It is the most popular form of underground metal yet, in part because it is both melodic and aggressively rhythmic without going to the ludicrous extremes found in death metal and grindcore, but in part because it fulfills what hardcore tried to do: it steps entirely outside of the belief system of modern society, and endorses our inner natural selves, with absolutely zero "morality" regulating the emotions and behaviors therein. Some say it is getting in touch with the Id, others claim it is alienation taken to a logical extreme, but to a student of art history or literature, it appears thematically entirely contiguous with the European Romanticists of two centuries ago. One can hear echoes of Emerson, or Wordsworth, in its cosmic yet earthy insistence on the meaning to be found within reality, and there is always F.W. Nietzsche's surly voice in its rejection of populist and utilitarian value systems. Musically, it took the lawlessness of death metal, and amplified the phrasal constructions therein to create music of a melodic construction, often with rhythm that minimizes its own impact through repetition of linear patterns that do not rely on listener expectation of an offbeat. As such, it is as different from rock'n'roll as most electronic bands are, but even moreso, in that with its indiscernible vocals and percussion, it is almost purely motif-based composition via guitar, much like that of classical music - if it were deliberately simple, feral in its bellicosity, and of course, made by people who act on their dissident beliefs.

[Signum_Tenebrae]

metal always seemed soulless and boring to me

Funny, I feel the same way about this new explosion of rock or indie or whatever it is.

[LightThievesAll]

Metallica are average at best.
Iron Maiden are classic and Hallowed Be Thy Name is the best Heavy Metal song ever damn you.
Slayer have their good moments, but nothing beyond their classics.

1. Yes, although I still love Master of Puppets.
2. Yes, and I'd put Hallowed Be Thy Name around 3rd on my best metal songs list.
3. Have their good moments!?  Reign in Blood is the greatest metal album ever.  It's my favorite album ever.  I'm one of the jerks who likes to yell SLAYER at inappropriate times.  I befriend people at parties by spontaneously screaming the lyrics to Raining Blood.  I love that band, almost as much as Motorhead.

The diversity of metal can partly be summed up in Vomitorial Corpulence... Christian goregrind.

(Speaking of goregrind, and grindcore in general I guess, give me some recommendations folks.  I've been a big fan of grindcore for years now, but I admit to don't listen to a diverse body of bands.  Napalm Death, ANb, Anal Cunt, Pig Destroyer, Nasum, Carcass, Cephalic Carnage, Yacopsae, you know, the usual.  I've been meaning to check out SOB and Bathtub Shitter, but I don't have a lot of money.  A good list of stuff to check out would be appreciated.)

[KharBevNor]

Two of my personal faves are Circle of Dead Children and Discordance Axis. If you want a bargain, get hold of 'Original Sound Version' by Discordance Axis: Their first album, their halfs of three splits, several live recordings, rehearsal tapes and bonus tracks: 3 years of material, Making for 69 tracks of Grind. (To make it even better one of these tracks is 19 minutes long, being basically an entire live show on one track). As far as goregrind/deathgrind goes, I'm always partial to a bit of Cattle Decapitation, as well as all your other 'Carcass worship' bands like County Medical Examiners, General Surgery, The Berzerker*, etc.

*Yeah, they count.

[Robbo]

3. Have their good moments!?  Reign in Blood is the greatest metal album ever.  It's my favorite album ever.  I'm one of the jerks who likes to yell SLAYER at inappropriate times.  I befriend people at parties by spontaneously screaming the lyrics to Raining Blood.  I love that band, almost as much as Motorhead.

Yes, the 3 classic albums and bits of the early stuff are good to very good. But there's bands out there that give more on a higher level more often. But yes, Reign In Blood is one of the classic albums, even if I do think Darkness Descends is miles better.

[LightThievesAll]

Yeah, their big three are undisputed classics, but I like all of their stuff.  Even "God Hates Us All."  I might even rank "Hell Awaits" as better than "Seasons" or "South of Heaven", but I guess that depends on my mood.  "Haunting the Chapel" is classic just for "Aggressive Perfector" and the mighty "Chemical Warfare".  I'll stop now, cos this stuff is all a matter of opinion, and at this point, I'm pretty sure my opinion is all too clear.

[Robbo]

Oh, there's no question that I like pretty much all of Slayer's stuff, just I find there are a lot of better Thrash bands out there. But they do make a good solid bench mark for bands that do just pure balls to the wall Thrash stuff.

[MilkmanDan]

Pfft. Guitars are for pussies.

Please, please tell me you listen to 'Cyber Porngrind'

Cyber Porngrind is simply a combination of Porngrind and Cybergrind. The bands [usually consisting of only one or two members] use catchy techno beats and programming and sodomize them with Porngrind lyrics and vokills. The downtuned groove riffs of Porngrind are an intergral part of some Cyber Porngrind bands' music, whereas others either dispense with this element altogether or bury it deeper in the mix on their recorded works. Cyber Porngrind bands use samples from various films in their music.

One of the best and most popular Cyber Porngrind bands in the scene is Libido Airbag [a band containing ex Gut members] but also keep an ear out for Smothered Brothers, Nunwhore Commando 666, Goat Orgy, The Bitch Project, Misogynist Pussy Slasher and Hot Lesbian Goat Sex.

[LightThievesAll]

It's odd, but for some reason I cannot fully get into Black Metal.  This is kind of weird for me, because as a genre, it definitely embodies what I think rock 'n' roll should be.  It challenges the status quo, and generally scares the hell out of most people.  At first I thought it was because BM bands and fans take themselves "too seriously", but that's bullshit cos I take music pretty damn seriously myself.  Anyone who speaks ill of the Misfits, Johnny Cash, the Business etc. in my presence had better be ready for an argument.  Hell, I like Empereror, Mayhem, Behemoth, and I fucking love King Diamond, but still for some reason I just can't embrace the genre as a whole.  I'm not opposed to listening to Black Metal, but I don't go out of my way to check it out either, like I do for grindcore, or psychobilly, or some such other subgenre far off the beaten path.  Maybe it's the Catholic in me, but I doubt it.  Can't figure it out.

Edit: Different subject, but there's a Vaginal Jesus mp3 on that Traumatized site.  Grind or not, those guys are racist fucking scum.  "Affirmative Apartheid"?  I guess that's supposed to be funny.  Assholes.

[a pack of wolves]

I know one of the guys that runs Traumatized and he regards lyrics as completely worthless and irrelevant (an interesting standpoint, since he himself is a vocalist), so he never cares what bands are singing about. He's also very apolitical so he would never bother to find out if a band were genuinely racist or just trying to provoke a reaction. Not a justification, I'd never host an mp3 of a racist band on a site I ran, but that's his standpoint on this stuff. Plus he gets off on pissing people off, on a forum I go on he used a swastika as his avatar for a while. Oh, the hilarity...

Anyway, on the subject of grind recommendations here's some of the cream of the UK crop:
Narcosis
Executive Distraction Tasks
Reth

[DeathrockZombie]

I actually went to a Nazi Blackmetal gig to taunt the band. Apparently America's first Blackmetal band, "Grand Belial's Key". Great fucking name, shoddy songs and repulsive politics. I kept yelling free bird and asking the singer point blank if he was a racist. He never answered me.

Maybe we should've brought some SHARPS along, and had us a little boot party.

That said, I love a lot of good metal. Venom is practically a punk band, which is awesome. And they even have funk breakdowns in certain songs (A thousand days in sodom)...

I love My Dying Bride, Manowar, Candlemass, Megadeth, etc.

I just can't STAND this super glossy bullshit guitar tone that's dominated it.
It's so over produced. The snare sound on most powermetal albums is soaked in so much reverb, it sounds like a cannon ball crashing in the ocean. BOOM - WOOOOOSSHHH
It is really glossy and candy coated sometime. I can't listen to Samael, Nightwish, or Children of Bodom without feeling nauseated.

Pardon my spelling, but a lot of it is over produced,
~ Basim

[KharBevNor]

I personally think there's a difference between good production and over-production. I like the 'true' end of commercial metal (including those three bands you mentioned), but they're actually very well produced, imo. The problem comes when you have shit like those drab sounding Morrisound death metal bands, which just sound boring. CoB, Samael etc. have got unique sounds and their style works well highly polished, as opposed to, say Cradle of Filth's 'Damnation and a Day' where the production simply eradicated any feeling.

CoB in particular are a band that I love which people on both sides of the fence often rubbish. They write fun, aggressive songs, and they have some frankly brilliant guitar-work, and indeed keys: definitely one of the most technically proficient bands to make it anywhere near the mainstream.

Edit: Also, I do actually have a libido airbag track lying around somewhere. Go me!

[Signum_Tenebrae]

Haha, you mocked Grand Belial's Key?  They're a good band in my opinion, not one of my favorite but certainly one I respect.

[blindsuperhero]

I personally think there's a difference between good production and over-production.

Well, clearly. The difference being that over-production is bad, and good production is...well...good.

[Hector Gilbert]

Even though I can understand the point some people have of just not liking metal too much and hence seeing KharBevNor's post as being aggressive, really I am more sympathetic to the idea that music should be explained more to people to keep silly generalisations from happening.  I'd readily acknowledge that if I didn't like an album it'd be my fault for not liking it, not the music's, and I would be open to see the interpretation of someone who was more of a fan.

The site anus.com has been mentioned a couple of times, and I must admit that they are admirably articulate in their definitions of styles and genres - and also have excellent reviews of metal albums which everyone should check out - however the philosophies behind much of that side would be enough to put many people off metal.  I myself was disgusted by much of what I read there and I still am - I for one wouldn't dare post on any of their communities.  A great site for music nonetheless.

As far as metal goes my favourite is surely Darkthrone, there is more variety in their output to date than many people give them credit for and I love the atmospheric yet energetic qualities of much of their music.  Great and often hypnotic riffs, and albums that more often than not are admirably cohesive.  People who love the more extreme/less melodic side of shoegaze music should give themselves a challenge and try out Burzum's Filosofem and Darkthrone's Transilvanian Hunger and see if these albums change their view of metal at all.

[KharBevNor]

Minimalist black metal drewestorys YOU ALLLL!!!

[KharBevNor]

^ Ignore that post too, the typos anyway.

[Hector Gilbert]

Minimalist black metal drewestorys YOU ALLLL!!!

Yes it does.

[lb969]

as a metalhead, i can tell you that metal is good. Helmet is metal (loosely) and i think most of you would enjoy it( Jeph appears to).

Also, try Slayers Cosmic Sea, for a wierd yet oddly enjoyable metal song.

also, megadeath, metallica, slayer, helmet, Iron Maden, BlackSabbeth,(pretty much metal), Dokken, Venom, Cacophony, Tesla, Helloween, Accept, Grim Reaper, Judas Priest, Ac/Dc, Helix, Def Leppard, Exodus, King Diamond, Pantera, Hamlet, (Motley Crue, Guns and Roses, Classic rock now) Sepultura, Gamma ray.

Pretty much my whole collection there...

phew!

[happybirthdaygelatin]

^ Ignore that post too, the typos anyway.

I can't as i was drewestory'd!

[Druid]

Helmet is metal (loosely) and i think most of you would enjoy it

Helmet is awsome. I think they're more post-hardcore then anything, but still heavy goodness.

[lb969]

Agreed.

But loosely as they dont have that "screaming-out-your-lungs" hardcore metal sound.

[Druid]

No they don't, but Page can still growl.

[tute666]

as a metalhead, i can tell you that metal is good. Helmet is metal (loosely) and i think most of you would enjoy it( Jeph appears to).

Also, try Slayers Cosmic Sea, for a wierd yet oddly enjoyable metal song.

also, megadeath, metallica, slayer, helmet, Iron Maden, BlackSabbeth,(pretty much metal), Dokken, Venom, Cacophony, Tesla, Helloween, Accept, Grim Reaper, Judas Priest, Ac/Dc, Helix, Def Leppard, Exodus, King Diamond, Pantera, Hamlet, (Motley Crue, Guns and Roses, Classic rock now) Sepultura, Gamma ray.

Pretty much my whole collection there...

phew!

generally agree.
gamma ray should be renamed gamma gay.
Juda's last album is superb
hell of a lot of classic rock ^^

i'd add:
Black Label Society
Demons & Wizards (metallish actually)
Down - NOLA
Iced Earth (kickass composition, i've lost my taste for it)
Meshuggah ( prog metal (?))
Turbonegro
In Flames (swedes know their shit)
Poison the well (hardcore)
Lamb of God
Iommi - Iommi (holy shit falling from heaven)
oh.  anthrax (thrash)

[El Opium]

I personally claim that I know crap about metal. However, I will say that I respect the devoted metalheads of this board, as they do indeed know their shit.

[Robbo]

Demons & Wizards I find a little lacking considering who they got in the band, but they turn out some decent stuff. No one really knows what Meshuggah plays* but it's hella funky and "I" is one of the must messed up bits of experimental music I've heard in a while.

Hopefully the goodness of this music will be enouhg to convert this person to the true way.

*Well, not without a lot of debates.

[tute666]

does faith no more count as metal?
why the hell did anybody invent "genres", these things always get out of control

[Robbo]

Faith No More where Metal...and a bit Avant Garde because everything Mike Patton does is some sort of fucked up Experimental or Avant Garde music,

[lb969]

The origional metal is best.

1970-1990

After that metal got CHANGED, by the bands like Korn.

Listen to any ORIGIONAL post 1990 Metallica CD, then listen to St. Anger.

Point Proven...


Gamma ray is wierd, as a group, but some of their music can be good...

I just like the old stuff better i guess...

You'll hear me comin, thinking im playing like a new CD, Bass booming... like a punk...

Really im just blasting out Led Zepplin... Head bobbing to the beat, screaming lyrics out...

WHAT? Im not wierd...

[Kai]

Led Zeppelin is metal?



Also, there's alot of good metal that was made after 1990, it just doesn't have nearly as much spotlight as most of the metal bands before then (Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, etc)

[Robbo]

They certainly are just Blues Rock. They dont even cross the line like Deep Purple do in some eyes.

And as for post 1990 stuff: You have the shift towards Extreme Metal, so less straight up Heavy Metal being popular in the underground and the genre fall of good Blues based music from a lot of popular interest, etc.

Hell, there where types of Metal popping up in the 90's that didn't exsist in the 80's.

[Holm]

I gave metal a chance. I kind of like some of it, but I'm not a big fan.

[Robbo]

Again, really sort of helps if you say what bands.

[Johnny C]

If you say "Ayreon" I'll be forced to hurt you.

[Robbo]

Ayreon are great. Silence fool.

[Signum_Tenebrae]

Ayreon are great. Silence fool.

I watched Lucassen's "Star One" DVD a while back. . damn that was cheesy.  

I haven't heard Aryeon, although I hear great things.

[Robbo]

Yeah, he makes no bones about the cheese. You might like Ayreon, or some parts of it at least, specially if you like the vocal line ups used.

[Johnny C]

I'm not a big fan.

If you say "Ayreon" I'll be forced to hurt you.

CONTEXTUALIZE'D

Ayreon is cheesy a little, but awesome a lot.

[LightThievesAll]

They certainly are just Blues Rock. They dont even cross the line like Deep Purple do in some eyes.

Deep Purple is awesome live.  Thin Lizzy is better though.

[Robbo]

Nah, Deep Purple all the way for me.

[zekterellium]

johnny, you don't have to be such a jerk about this. it seems to me like khar was just trying to stick up for the music that he loves and yr being just a bit mean about not liking it, dude.

[lb969]

@Kai:

No, Led Zepplin is Classic Rock....

my point is i like the older stuff....

[Poke]

I agree that there is some metal out there that I really appreciate, but there is so damn much of it that also sucks, I have a hard time finding bands that I like.

My favorite metal(ish) bands:

Acid Bath
In Flames
The Gathering (if they count, I think they may be melodic metal maybe?)
Lacuna Coil
Faith No More

There are a few songs by other bands that I like, but I can't think of them right now.
If anyone can think of bands similar to the ones I posted... like Acid Bath rocks... interesting lyrics, cool sound, not too much obnoxious and annoying screaming. I downloaded some Isis already as a suggestion, and while the music itself is pretty cool, I find his vocals surprisingly irritating.

[Johnny C]

le ouch!

What, wait, where? This topic? I think it was in another topic, in which the phrase "metal owns you all" or something similar was repeated a few times.

And you'll never catch me saying that metal doesn't have its merits, nor that people are perfectly capable of being able to listen to and enjoy it. I just don't like it, is all.

[Robbo]

Poke, in review of what you like.

Acid Bath are great, and you'd probably like other Sludge bands. Why not start with the band that formed from their ashes, Agents of Oblivion.

In Flames where decent, now they're whiny Emo/Nu Metal bollocks.

The Gathering will shock the hell out of you if you listen to the first album. They used to be a Death/Doom band. Then the femal vocals joined and they turned Goth Metal, then ran down the road of Atmospheric/Experimental Rock really.

Everyone has to love Lacuna Coil really, even if they anit brilliant, they work.

Faith No More we have already covered.

So basically, you want Sludge, non sucky MDM, and softer Goth Metal/Melodic Atmospheric stuff. Shall see what I can do about that.

But as for vocals, train your ear. It doesn't take that much work really.

Johnny C, that's because it does. And people here have already proved that Indie is just ripping Metal off in a lot of ways right now (eg the Kvlt Elitism thing)

[Signum_Tenebrae]

And people here have already proved that Indie is just ripping Metal off in a lot of ways right now (eg the Kvlt Elitism thing)

Oh my god you listen to CDs?!  You fucking poser, true fans listen to only vinyl records limited to 3 copies.

[Robbo]

Please, I dont even listen to that. Dont want someone over hearing it. I just get all the tabs down in memory and hum it inside my head. While wearing a special hat to protect my brainwaves from spying of course.

And now to wait for the kiddies to actually start doing that.

[KharBevNor]

So anyway, I got this urge to make a recommended listening list of more unknown bands.

Feel free to argue or whatever.

Black
Anaal Nathrakh: Getting big in the UK. Technical/post-black The next OED carries as it's definition for the word 'fact': 'Anaal Nathrakh are more hardcore than you'
Immortal Ayatollah: JIHAD!
Nazgul: Folkish black. Creepy as fuck in places. Lyrics are in latin.
Profanatica: Fast and nasty black metal. For fans of Impaled Nazarene and Marduk.
Sportlov: Joke band. Awesome music.

Death
Bloodbath: You can't beat a good supergroup. Try getting hold of the first EP. Very nice.
Grave: Grooooovy.
Unleashed: Fucking solid death metal.

Electro
...And Oceans: Mix of Techno and Black Metal
Contrastic: Czech Electro-Death. Kind of like Fear Factory, but better.
Ewigkeit: Cuhrazy experimental metal from Bournemouth. Crosses about twenty genres and creates 'Really Good Metal'.

Folk/Viking
The Clan Destined: are going to be the best band ever. Former members of Skyclad and Immortal ^_^.
Forefather: Anglo-Saxon metal. Rousing!
Korpiklaani: Following firmly in the foot-steps of Finntroll, this is fun, stripped down polka-metal. The singer did all the jolk (yodelling) on FT's 'Jaktens Tid'

Goth/Symph
Crown of Autumn: Prove that anything medieval is cool.
Silent Stream of Godless Elegy: Have violins. This is a huge asset if you want to sound really depressed.
Virgin Black: Very airy and miserable sounding vocals, but they can get fucking heavy when they want to.

Heavy
3 Inches of Blood: They're getting pretty big, and stirring up a goodly amount of controversy. I like 'em.
Dream Evil: Have switched from Power to Heavy, and are better as a result.
Running Wild: Are often, unfairly excluded from lists of classic old-school metal bands. I cannot fathom quite why.
Viking Skull: WARNING! Listening to too much Viking Skull can permanently mold your fingers into the horns.

Melodic Death Metal
Arsis: If you haven't heard Arsis you are not metal. Rectify the situation now!
Cryptic Wintermoon: Blackened MDM/thrash. Technical. Brutal.
Dark Lunacy: Violins and MDM work. Yes they do.

Power
Avantasia: Are as cliche as fuck. But they spin some decent tunes.
DragonForce: Another one that's getting big in the UK. You may have heard fast melodic metal before, but Dragonforce just get silly with it. One of the best '4 solo per song' bands.
Ninja Magic: The Cheesiest Band Ever. Absolutely no contest. If they ever drop that silly cymbal sound, or hire a vocalist who can actually pronounce 'Ninja' they will lose all their charm and be shit.
Wuthering Heights: will rock your arse off with their speed/folk combo.

Symph-Black
Gloomy Grim: Blew up the clicheometer. But they did it with style.
Hecate Enthroned: Get called a CoF clone a lot. Aren't. Have funny videos where they fail to look grim.
Illnath: Actually are a CoF clone. Redeem themselves by being better than CoF.
Limbonic Art: Would like you to know that they are feeling very depressed.

Thrash
Tankard: Beer is one of the cornerstones of metal. Good to know that it has such an awesome band dedicated to it. Solid German Thrash.
Sabbat: Martin Walkyiers first band. Awesome guitar, great lyrics, wierd vocals.

and loads more, but I got bored and I need more coffee. Also, I stuck mainly to ones I could make witty summaries for.

[Signum_Tenebrae]

Anybody here like Doom Metal?

[KharBevNor]

Gah, I forgot a whole genre! It's okay though, as I don't really know many lesser known Doom groups, just big names like My Dying Bride and Candlemass (though I'm pretty in on the underground UK sludge/stoner scene). Everyone should listen to the big three founders of nineties UK-doom though (MDB, Paradise Lost and Anathema)

As for sludge, Eyehategod, Acid Bath, Iron Monkey and Electric Wizard are where it's at.