Topic: lyrics important? (Read 19601 times)

Mikendher · « **on:** 08 Jun 2005, 08:40 »

To me, lyrics are extremely important in any song. I have to like the music and the lyrics. I would say that music is slightly more important to me though.

However, some of my friends don't think lyrics are important at all. They only care about the music. So they listen to stuff like Howie Day and like it. I'm sure some people like Howie Day's lyrics; I'm just giving an example from my perspective.

So how important are lyrics to you?

kikanjuuneko · « **Reply #1 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 08:44 »

I can't endorse a band that uses a singer and has shitty lyrics. My friend, much like yours, doesn't think lyrics matter at all. Ironically, he ends up writing Mars Volta-isms everytime he writes a song.

Robbo · « **Reply #2 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 08:57 »

I dont have a problem with bad lyrics. I listen to various ultra cheesy Power Metal bands and gore/toilet filth obsessed Gore/Porno bands.

I've yet to find a band I could dislike because of the lyrics. I've found plenty that I have have bad lyrics or lyrics I disagree with. Normally it comes down to "they're an alright/good/etc band...but the lyrics suck/are just plain stupid."

But good lyrics can make the music even better, just add that little extra bit to it. But the flipside of my view is also true, I've yet to find a band I could like just because of the lyrics. Good lyrics alone dont make good music.

negative creep · « **Reply #3 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 09:32 »

it depends on the band.
i don't think good lyrics or lyrics at all are necessary (just think about Karma to Burn), but if a song has good lyrics, it's always a plus.

heretic · « **Reply #4 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 10:43 »

good lyrics are good, bad lyrics can be acceptable.
if a band writes bad lyrics about serious subjects, and is trying for good lyrics, then that is BAD.
but, if a band write silly lyrics about nothing in particular, or if they make them up as they go along (as in my little duo) that's fine. you know they don't take thier lyrics too seriously, so it's just something to say to get out a melody. this can be very enjoyable.

good lyrics, however, are paramount. we just haven't gotten around to it/ it doesn't fit with a lot of our songs because they're mostly jams with a loose structure. we couldn't sing it the same everytime.

zekterellium · « **Reply #5 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 10:47 »

i'll admit that i can't listen to avril lavinge unless i prepare myself for it. "gonna ask you to stop, thought i liked you a lot, but i'm really upset" is the most awful lyric i have ever heard in my life. i'm not fucking kidding.

ASturge · « **Reply #6 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 10:55 »

*Audible gasp!*

How can you not like lyrical gems such as...

He was a sk8r boi
She said Seeyah later boy
I'll be backstage before the show!

!?!?!

zekterellium · « **Reply #7 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 10:59 »

hahaha.

i don't know, sturge. maybe i prefer things that are less accesible so i look cooler? i'll admit, sk8r boi does have it's moments - "he was a punk, she did ballet, what more can i say?" is very good for a seventeen year old, i guess. maybe you have to be in a certain mood to enjoy avril lavigne?

heretic · « **Reply #8 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 11:04 »

i'm pretty sure that was sarcasm there chief.
not good for a 17 year old. bad. for anyone. i was writing better shit at 17.
haha i just came up with this while schlepping drawings around, it's dumb and vulgar but i like it

rich and trendy chick
you suck a real mean dick
but i was shocked at how
i'm the best thing to come from your mouth
so wiiiipe your chin and leave the room

heh heh, fun

zekterellium · « **Reply #9 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 11:11 »

aww heretic you big silly, i was kidding around. one - avril doesn't even write her lyrics and two - i know it's bullshit, even compared to other pop, let alone compared to alexisonfire or everytime i die. she is very, very, very good looking though,

heretic · « **Reply #10 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 11:33 »

ok, i'm a big silly. you win.
my lyrics are proof of my big sillyness, but then again in the song we don't wanna call it sillyness, i call it maximus

KharBevNor · « **Reply #11 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 11:34 »

I agree with Rob quite a lot, though I personally LOVE cheese-arse and gore/toilet stuff. Lyrics can often be the icing on the cake of a band though. For example, Skyclad post Martin Walkyier still has the great music, with the violin/guitar duo of Georgie Biddle and Dan Ramsey intact at the centre of the band, but without the tortuous, bitter lyrics they just ain't the same, for all Kevin Ridley deliberately imitates Walkyiers writing and singing style. I love them for their lyrics, but they do have great music. I'm far more concerned with the voice as an instrument really: awesome vocalists can make up for the shitest of lyrics. (old Theatre of Tragedy is a case in point. Easily some of the worst, cheesiest goth-cliche lyrics ever, couched in such atrociously written Shakesperean verse that many songs were unintelligble, yet the vocals!)

Also, I'm 17. The last song I wrote was:

SYMBOLOGIE DIABOLIQUE

Domitianus Caesar Legatos, Xti Violenter Interfecit
Submerged symbolism, implicit or explicit
Ancient pictograms of Mictecacihuatl
Hakkenkreuz and Wolfsangel
Evil, evil everywhere
Our world sits on the brink

Danse macabre as the pentagrams turn
Watch the crooked cross in your sunwheel burn
Triskeleton totenkopf, when will we learn?
At the hands of the beast we’ll get what we earn

Ahead of schedule for our date with Marduk
Six-sixty-six: our bolt in Christ struck
Numerical heresies, crimes against reason
Order and logic are out of season
Eighteen eighty eight: year of Jack
On the highway to hell there’s no way back

Danse macabre as the pentagrams turn
Watch the crooked cross in your sunwheel burn
Triskeleton totenkopf, when will we learn?
At the hands of the beast we’ll get what we earn

The keys to comprehension
A matter of dissension
This kabbalistic clidomancy
Our path to the shore of sanity
A symbolic white horse headed for hell
Will man outlive? Time may tell.

Danse macabre as the pentagrams turn
Watch the crooked cross in your sunwheel burn
Triskeleton totenkopf, when will we learn?
At the hands of the beast we’ll get what we earn

Miss Lavigne's just dumb

zekterellium · « **Reply #12 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 11:39 »

khar, you saying you wouldn't fuck her?

that was a pretty cool rhyme, bro.

KharBevNor · « **Reply #13 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 11:46 »

If you wouldn't do Avril Lavigne, you are either a homosexual or a man with taste and breeding.

I am neither.

zekterellium · « **Reply #14 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 11:54 »

hahaha

Kirkles · « **Reply #15 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 11:59 »

I love lyrics. I like it when I get a song with lyrics I don't know what the story is they are telling or whatever, because then I have to listen to it until I do. (of course, with some I still don't have a clue) I think it's because I love analysing them. We're analysing pomes at the moment in English and I love it. Does that make me sad? I guess good lyrics aren't always important, but to me they are. I think it's because I can't play anything, I can't read music. I can play piano and the tin whistle a little by ear, but I'm not very good because I haven't done it for a long time. With lyrics though, anybody can know what goes into them. And I love writing. Bla. I don't really know what I'm saying.

The best songs are ones you can turn up, shut your eyes and think: I could listen to this song forever. And for me it's usually the music that does that. I think lyrics just give songs that extra bit of interest.

Hmm, have I flip flopped my views slightly on the subject? I've never really thought about it before. I usually get bored of a song that has no lyrics.

KharBevNor · « **Reply #16 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 12:01 »

I do love a bit of lyrical analysis. I still have fond memories of when I was 13/14 and me and my best mate were sitting in his room working out what all the songs on 'Toxicity' were about.

zekterellium · « **Reply #17 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 12:10 »

what about a band with awesome lyrics but that are rubbish? like cradle of filth or sparklehorse?

KharBevNor · « **Reply #18 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 12:16 »

Pssh, I like CoF. They dumbed down their lyrics recently anyway, only on Damnation and a Day to cool lyrics and crud music truly co-exist. New album has ok lyrics and crudder music.

heretic · « **Reply #19 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 12:16 »

khar, i like your meter and scheme but the content feels cheesy to me. bu then again i like either completely pointless or really good and on a set idea. no middle ground for me, but if that's your thing these wouldn't bother me in a song with good music.

KharBevNor · « **Reply #20 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 12:22 »

But I managed to get so many references to nazis as a symbol for the human capacity for evil in without using the words 'Nazis', 'Hitler', or 'Swastika' once! Side by side with numerology, the occult and greek orthodox theology!

AH NOOO! I can't believe I didn't use 'Gammadion' in there! That's the best alternate name for the Swastika ever.

I like wordplay and showing my own wanky knowledge of symbology. In that one anyway.

Praeserpium Machinarum · « **Reply #21 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 12:23 »

I think it should be fifty-fifty with lyrics and music, both are equally important. We have a great lyricist in Denmark called CV(Carsten Valentin) Jørgensen, he writes fantastic lyrics but the music is really dull, which is such a shame considering. Fifty-fifty I say, well unless you are GY!BE or a a capella band, then you are forgiven

heretic · « **Reply #22 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 12:28 »

Quote from: KharBevNor

But I managed to get so many references to nazis as a symbol for the human capacity for evil in without using the words 'Nazis', 'Hitler', or 'Swastika' once! Side by side with numerology, the occult and greek orthodox theology!

AH NOOO! I can't believe I didn't use 'Gammadion' in there! That's the best alternate name for the Swastika ever.

I like wordplay and showing my own wanky knowledge of symbology. In that one anyway.

see i know very little about any of that stuff and thought it was random dramatic-sounding shit. comments recinded

blindsuperhero · « **Reply #23 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 12:41 »

Quote from: KharBevNor

I like wordplay and showing my own wanky knowledge of symbology. In that one anyway.

That's precisely what I got from those lyrics. A bit contrived, I thought.

As far as lyrics/music goes, as long as neither aspect is bad enough to detract from the experience, I don't mind having average lyrics with great music, or vice versa. Of course it's better when both are fantastic, and as for which one I value more, well it depends what I'm listening to. I think 'Kind of Blue' and 'Songs of Leonard Cohen' are albums of a similar quality, but clearly one values music, and the other puts a greater emphasis on lyrics. So I can't really say one is more important than another, they're just different.

kikanjuuneko · « **Reply #24 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 12:53 »

After Khar posted his, I suddenly felt like posting some of mine (warning, clichéd metalcore lyrics ahead!):

'A Heart's Worth of Dead Dreams'

We stood as tall as the eagles
The burning sun, our constant guide
The open skies a waste-laid battlefield
Our proud banner on the highest peaks

(chorus/singalong/breakdown thingy)
We always stood proud, even though we had naught
Thought the world was ours, a simple we bought
Now the dream is dead, alone and without support
Estranged and ostracized, for others' profits we rot

Even the greatest of visions, give in to slavery
Even the greatest of heroes, must someday bury their dreams
And now the turning of time's wheels has made itself our worst enemy
Though we offered resistance, we still tasted bitter defeat

(chorus/singalong/breakdown thingy)

And now we scream for our vengeance, scream to those mountain peaks
We will not suffer idly, we will not live in misery
And now we scream for our vengeance, sworn in blood
No rest until we take it back, take back our own weary hearts

Man, that always feels more awkward when it's not accompanied by loud guitars and screaming.

MrTeapot · « **Reply #25 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 13:35 »

Good lyrics are a bonus, but what I can't stand are bands that try to sound serious but fall into the trap of using really bad clichés, or force the metre of the song to fit a rhyme. Gets on my nerves whenever a lyric gets turned around Yoda style.

"Up to you I walked" for an example off the top of my head. If they have shitty music to boot they get but on 'the list'.

Merkava · « **Reply #26 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 14:04 »

I love having the lead singer say words. I love only being able to understand select words as the song goes along. I love unmasking the artist's story.

I only detract a band for it's lyrics when it ends up like the verses of "Goodnight, Goodnight" by Hot Hot Heat. It pays off when it gets to the chorus, but the verses still make me want to vomit.

Outshined · « **Reply #27 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 15:11 »

Hmmm... for me, unless the lyrics are exceptionally offensive, boring, or lame, it doesn't matter too much. It's more about the actual execution of said lyrics... how the vocalist structures those words in a melodic/rhythmic way. There are vocalists that could probably sing the phone book and make it interesting, while some of these whiny, nasaly voiced guys make me want to rip my ears out, irregardless of how good their lyrics may be.

Irregardless, a good vocalist singing good lyrics is always the ideal situation.

pistachio · « **Reply #28 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 19:07 »

Lyrics are really important to me. In a lot of cases I can say a song is great based solely on the lyrics. It does matter who is singing them though, Alot of lyrics are really good but because the Vocalist is completely horrid I dont like it as much. I think thats why I tend to like music from a lot of different genres. I'm also really into analyzing lyrics like someone else mentioned. I love how if you take away the music from a song, or the way the vocalist sings it, you can think of a song in a completely different light. For example: I knew the song Wonderwall by Oasis forever, and didnt really think about the lyrics at all until I heard Cat Powers cover of it.

Not to say that I don't appreciate talent when I haer it. I can also be completely blown away by music as well. But I tend to tocus more on lyrics than anything else.

heretic · « **Reply #29 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 20:09 »

Quote from: Outshined

Hmmm... for me, unless the lyrics are exceptionally offensive, boring, or lame, it doesn't matter too much. It's more about the actual execution of said lyrics... how the vocalist structures those words in a melodic/rhythmic way. There are vocalists that could probably sing the phone book and make it interesting, while some of these whiny, nasaly voiced guys make me want to rip my ears out, irregardless of how good their lyrics may be.

Irregardless, a good vocalist singing good lyrics is always the ideal situation.

1) i am going to sing the phone book in a song now, that is one of the mostest awesomest ideas ever, i think it's been done now that you mention it though.

2) irregardless is not a word. people should not use it as it makes m......rrr...HULK SMASH POOR GRAMMAR!!!

Inlander · « **Reply #30 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 20:41 »

Lyrics are important to me - but sadly, really good lyrics are not very common. I can certainly enjoy a song with slightly nonsensical lyrics, but one thing I cannot abide is cliched and/or banal lyrics. If I hear one more ballad in which the protaganist goes "down to the river", I'm gonna scream!

When I find a truly brilliant lyricist (such as Darren Hanlon or, going back a bit, Ira Gershwin) then I'm hooked for life. Clever and interesting use of words just makes me into a big warm fuzzy ball of happiness.

Spike · « **Reply #31 on:** 08 Jun 2005, 21:29 »

I know I'm not the only one who has ever had thoughts about starting a Slipknot-esque band that does songs about fluffy bunnies, coming from a not broken home, or not dieing inside/being hated.

Good lyrics make some songs, but for others they just make the song better. Sometimes the things that go on in my head and all that, or things that really trigger responses can't be put into words.

Empty Friend · « **Reply #32 on:** 09 Jun 2005, 00:29 »

Quote from: heretic

2) irregardless is not a word. people should not use it as it makes m......rrr...HULK SMASH POOR GRAMMAR!!!

Dictionary.com says:

ir·re·gard·less
adv. Nonstandard

Regardless.

and:
irregardless

adv : regardless; a combination of irrespective and regardless sometimes used humorously

I am grammarfascist, stronger than the grammar hulk ^_~

GebStar · « **Reply #33 on:** 09 Jun 2005, 01:56 »

Lyrics aren't really that important to me when im listening to music.
As everyone has said, good lyrics are a bonus but i don't think that poor lyrics are enough to really dislike a band so long as the singing and music are good.
I can also put up with bad singing if the lyrics and the music are good.
if a band has 2 of the 3 it can get by me. (that should be a lyric)

This topic reminds me of something that happened a few weeks ago. I was in class and the whole class was listening to Neutral Milk Hotel when a guy in my class says "These lyrics are rubbish". So my friend and him got into the big argument on the importance of lyrics she said it wasn't he said that it was. The argument was ended when she said "If you wan't fucking lyrics go read some poetry"
I thought that it was brilliant.
Then he proceeded to sing Switchfoot "dare you to move" which had the class in stitches.

KharBevNor · « **Reply #34 on:** 09 Jun 2005, 02:14 »

Quote from: Outshined

exceptionally offensive

Best type!!

Quote from: heretic

1) i am going to sing the phone book in a song now, that is one of the mostest awesomest ideas ever, i think it's been done now that you mention it though.

Tom Lehrer created hilarious musical awesomeness just by singing all the names of the elements on the periodic table.

"Iiiiiiiit's Antimony, Arsenic, Aluminium, Selenium, and also Molybdenum, Einsteinium, Nobelium..."

kikanjuuneko · « **Reply #35 on:** 09 Jun 2005, 02:32 »

When it comes to Tom Lehrer, we all know that 'I Got It From Agnes' kicks the most ass.

KharBevNor · « **Reply #36 on:** 09 Jun 2005, 02:34 »

Just what that song implies. In the 1950's...

kikanjuuneko · « **Reply #37 on:** 09 Jun 2005, 05:22 »

I'm surprised the man wasn't lynched.

crazybritishsteve · « **Reply #38 on:** 09 Jun 2005, 05:37 »

Periodic table song SAVED MY LIFE!!! Best way to do chemistry EVER!

OtterErotic · « **Reply #39 on:** 09 Jun 2005, 07:38 »

I feel like lyricists generally fall into three categories: terrible, passable, and good. Most lyricists fall into the middle category -- esp. in rock / indie rock, most lyricists have figured out how not to embarrass themselves terribly, but still can't pull off jaw-dropping stuff.

As for the last category, there are very few lyricists I would include, but a few of them are:

Dan Bejar (Destroyer)
John Darnielle (Mountain Goats)
Jeff Mangum (Neutral Milk Hotel)
Will Oldham (Palace, Bonnie Prince Billy, etc)

heretic · « **Reply #40 on:** 09 Jun 2005, 07:40 »

let us not forget jonathan davis of korn...300,000 songs about being abused as a child

OtterErotic · « **Reply #41 on:** 09 Jun 2005, 07:47 »

... or the Limp Bizkit hit "you're touching my balls and my ass"

heretic · « **Reply #42 on:** 09 Jun 2005, 08:12 »

"sniffin on them panties..." worst fucking lyric ever. just creepy, and wierd, not even shocking

Kai · « **Reply #43 on:** 09 Jun 2005, 08:36 »

Quote from: zekterellium

aww heretic you big silly, i was kidding around. one - avril doesn't even write her lyrics and two - i know it's bullshit, even compared to other pop, let alone compared to alexisonfire or everytime i die. she is very, very, very good looking though,

One of these is Avril, the other is Axl Rose.

Thanks to somethingawful for being so awesome and noticing things. woo!

Lyrics don't play a big part in the music to me, especially since most of the stuff I listen to is pretty crass and pointless. Songs about Eskimos and People turning into Rocks (The Mothers of Invention rock my socks). However, at least it's not like this:

I never spend less than an hour,
Washin' my hair in the shower,
It always takes five hours to make it straight,
So I'll braid it in a zillion braids,
Though it may take a friggin' day,
There's nothin' else better to do anyway.

heretic · « **Reply #44 on:** 09 Jun 2005, 08:41 »

and then after a week
i'll take em out casue they'll start to reek

hahaha i'm so clever.

nice pic, she looks busted as hell there

Merkava · « **Reply #45 on:** 09 Jun 2005, 15:48 »

Quote from: OtterErotic

I feel like lyricists generally fall into three categories: terrible, passable, and good. Most lyricists fall into the middle category -- esp. in rock / indie rock, most lyricists have figured out how not to embarrass themselves terribly, but still can't pull off jaw-dropping stuff.

As for the last category, there are very few lyricists I would include, but a few of them are:

Dan Bejar (Destroyer)
John Darnielle (Mountain Goats)
Jeff Mangum (Neutral Milk Hotel)
Will Oldham (Palace, Bonnie Prince Billy, etc)

Thank GOODNESS you said those bands instead of bringing in The Decemberists, which IMO = overrated.

boeuf · « **Reply #46 on:** 09 Jun 2005, 20:30 »

Lyrics are usually the most important thing about music or a band.

I will like a band for their sound more so than their lyrcis (Best example is Iggy Pop, the sound is awesome but his lyrics are terrible)

But I will usually be waaay more into a band or have more respect for them if their lyrics have meaning or are well done.

Examples: Neutral Milk Hotel, The Weakerthans, Against Me!, The Decemberists. Bad Religion, to a lesser extent Leatherface.

EDIT: haha, I so didn't read the post before mine.
*blushies*

OtterErotic · « **Reply #47 on:** 09 Jun 2005, 21:39 »

Yeah, I am not the biggest fan of Meloy's lyrics. I think he was at his best on Castaways when things were more understated and direct.

MrKneebone · « **Reply #48 on:** 14 Jun 2005, 22:33 »

good lyrics = longevity.

bad lyrics = easily forgotten.

saturnine1979 · « **Reply #49 on:** 17 Jun 2005, 01:36 »

I listen to... a lot of stuff, like most people here, so I can go either way on the matter.

Listening to a lot of Post-Rock (Explosions In The Sky, GY!BE, A Silver Mt. Zion, most Mogwai), you start to forget why singers are necessary at all. Obviously, music can do without them (albiet the previously mentioned bands can get depressing with their lack of catchy hooks and their untraditional song structures).

If a band has a singer, lyrics are important for two reasons:
1) The singer's voice is an instrument. The words the writer of the song (who we should hope is the singer) chooses create sounds that tie themselves to the song and should add another degree of depth to the sound. In most cases, they are a center-piece, and so those words better make some damn good music.

2) What they sing is just as important as how they sing it. Even if the lyrics are nonsensical (see: Of Montreal, The Shins), they should still make sense within the idea that the song is presenting.

Personally, I love poetry, so I like it when an artist has skill in writing lyrics that both sound great both musically and in written form. I like to see words played with and used in creative ways. I really have a hard on for vocalists and songwriters.

McArtney/Lennon = incredible. Listening through Beatles' albums like Abbey Road, Sgt. Pepper's, Revolver, and the White Album completely blow my mind with the amount of incredible songs they were able to write with such great lyrics, beautiful harmonies and melodies, and ingenious song structures. I don't care if you're one of those reactionary type folks who hates the Beatles just cos...or if you don't enjoy them period....

McArtney and Lennon were musical geniuses when it came to songwriting. (and not to mention ol' George)

THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

Author Topic: lyrics important? (Read 19601 times)

Mikendher

kikanjuuneko

Robbo

heretic

zekterellium

ASturge

zekterellium

heretic

zekterellium

heretic

zekterellium

zekterellium

Kirkles

zekterellium

heretic

Praeserpium Machinarum

heretic

blindsuperhero

kikanjuuneko

MrTeapot

Merkava

Outshined

pistachio

heretic

Empty Friend

kikanjuuneko

kikanjuuneko

crazybritishsteve

OtterErotic

heretic

OtterErotic

heretic

heretic

Merkava

boeuf

OtterErotic

MrKneebone

saturnine1979