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Author Topic: "Rockism"  (Read 12041 times)

Johnny C

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"Rockism"
« on: 18 Jun 2005, 09:52 »

Recently, Stylus Magazine published an essay on the theme of "Rockism" (click for link). I don't know how many of you saw it, but it's a pretty interesting read.

Quote
Rockism is an attitude about evaluating music, and as critics or listeners with critical ears, it would only make sense to be tolerant about the issue, to level the playing field as best we can. Ultimately, these efforts to diversify and democratize seem bent on legitimizing genres or types of music that rockism would inherently devalue. What’s problematic about the whole thing is deciding what factors constitute that value.

So my question is, what do you guys think of the article? What are your thoughts on Rockism in general? Does Rockism, in fact, exist, or is it merely a term made up by critical intelligistia to justify their liking of R&B and pop?


EDIT: Forgot to mention, my response is available here.
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Signum_Tenebrae

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"Rockism"
« Reply #1 on: 18 Jun 2005, 14:32 »

In my humble opinion --

It's funny because at least some of these people "unfairly" judging rap, pop, R&B, etc probably listen to pop themselves simply repackaged with a different image.

That said, each genre of music has its audience and most of the time people listen to what they "should."
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KharBevNor

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"Rockism"
« Reply #2 on: 18 Jun 2005, 15:09 »

Where does all this debate leave folk music?

Loads of people like pop, or rap and R&B, appreciate it's qualities, whatever. This is the debate. But bring up folk music and most people laugh. Folk music is better than a lot of the shit everyone is listening to, and yet it has enormous bodies of stigma, to the point where it is simply never talked about.

Also, rock music simply rocks.
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Merkava

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"Rockism"
« Reply #3 on: 18 Jun 2005, 17:54 »

I grew up listening to a lot of shit, which is why I like Rock, Metal, Rap, R&B, and Electronica equally. I'm not really a Rockist, but I tend to lean towards rock unless something about the other genres really appeals to me and really stands out.
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El Opium

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Cuz I like to rock
« Reply #4 on: 18 Jun 2005, 19:37 »

I find this kind of odd really. Back in the late 90s I found there was a very anti-rock attitude abroad. A lot of people thought rock was dead and everyone thought sometime electronic music would bowl everything over, people thought me and my friends were anachronistic for listening to punk rock. Now of course the general opinion is that electronic music has lost all its fire. I have found hip-hop is getting a lot more credit as a serious genre now that absolutely no one can dismiss it as a fad. I would call myself rockist but only because most of the music I like has a guitar in it somewere, its just what I like.
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MilkmanDan

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"Rockism"
« Reply #5 on: 19 Jun 2005, 03:22 »

Guitars are for pussies.
I'm anti-rockist.
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_grace_

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"Rockism"
« Reply #6 on: 19 Jun 2005, 06:08 »

Quote from: MilkmanDan
Guitars are for pussies.
I'm anti-rockist.


ha! i'm going to hope that was sarcasm.
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Kai

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"Rockism"
« Reply #7 on: 19 Jun 2005, 08:50 »

Quote from: MilkmanDan
Guitars are for pussies.
I'm anti-rockist.


Bassoons are the way to go.
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but the music sucks because the keyboards don't have the cold/mechanical sound they had but a wannabe techno sound that it's pathetic for Rammstein standars.

Mnementh

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"Rockism"
« Reply #8 on: 19 Jun 2005, 11:29 »

Quote from: MilkmanDan
Guitars are for pussies.
I'm anti-rockist.


This is the best thing that's ever been said here.

And that article was really just a peice of wankery.
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jeremy

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"Rockism"
« Reply #9 on: 19 Jun 2005, 12:37 »

Seriously. Quit ruining everything with your pseudo-intellectual garbage, silly indie rockers.
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_grace_

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"Rockism"
« Reply #10 on: 20 Jun 2005, 02:45 »

Quote from: jeremy
Seriously. Quit ruining everything with your pseudo-intellectual garbage, silly indie rockers.


'pseudo-intellectual garbage' has to be one of the best phrases i've ever heard!
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McTaggart

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"Rockism"
« Reply #11 on: 20 Jun 2005, 07:18 »

To be honest, I didn't RTFA. I stopped reading when I noticed it was an exercise in cred-building.

I agree with Khar on the folk point. There is a much greater stigma associated with folk (and, in this part of the world, country) than with any of these other genres.
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heretic

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"Rockism"
« Reply #12 on: 20 Jun 2005, 07:30 »

why don't we just spell it out?
everyone except us is stupid and only those who read this forum are allowed to judge music. there, problem solved.
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Mikendher

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"Rockism"
« Reply #13 on: 20 Jun 2005, 07:47 »

I like folk. Laugh at me if you will :-)
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heretic

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"Rockism"
« Reply #14 on: 20 Jun 2005, 07:50 »

i think most people here at least repect good folk even if they don't like it. i like it
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Johnny C

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"Rockism"
« Reply #15 on: 20 Jun 2005, 12:36 »

I like you guys, you're a smart bunch.
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heretic

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"Rockism"
« Reply #16 on: 20 Jun 2005, 12:37 »

that what we've been trying to tell you
[/cheesy tv line]
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Merkava

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"Rockism"
« Reply #17 on: 20 Jun 2005, 13:14 »

Quote from: _grace_
Quote from: jeremy
Seriously. Quit ruining everything with your pseudo-intellectual garbage, silly indie rockers.


'pseudo-intellectual garbage' has to be one of the best phrases i've ever heard!


See that door? The one away from the computer and TV? Go through it. :P
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Kai

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"Rockism"
« Reply #18 on: 20 Jun 2005, 16:38 »

Yeah. go to Best Buy and watch TV and use the computer. They have bigger TV's and better computers.
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but the music sucks because the keyboards don't have the cold/mechanical sound they had but a wannabe techno sound that it's pathetic for Rammstein standars.

Damniel

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"Rockism"
« Reply #19 on: 21 Jun 2005, 00:22 »

going off the folk music and rock music thing from KharBevNor...there are some bands around where i live that mix the two...
for example AC/Dixie....who play AC/DC as folk music...and theres another that plays Sex Pistols stuff and other punk as folk music
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KharBevNor

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"Rockism"
« Reply #20 on: 21 Jun 2005, 08:31 »

Pssh, folk rock is for losers.

Folk metal is where the party's at

HUMPAA HUMPAA HUMPAA YAHOO!
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Mikintosh

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"Rockism"
« Reply #21 on: 21 Jun 2005, 13:40 »

I'll listen to most genres as long as they have some bite to it or at least don't offend my ears too greatly; the hardcore rappers and the more twee folk bands are pretty much the only segments of the music community I'll turn off immediately.
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_grace_

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"Rockism"
« Reply #22 on: 22 Jun 2005, 07:32 »

Quote from: Damniel
going off the folk music and rock music thing from KharBevNor...there are some bands around where i live that mix the two...
for example AC/Dixie....who play AC/DC as folk music...and theres another that plays Sex Pistols stuff and other punk as folk music


wow, i honestly didn't think anyone else on Earth had heard of them! (ac/dixie)

ah, and i'm sorry merkava for whatever i did that was apparently deserving of being told to effectively 'bugger off'.
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Kai

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"Rockism"
« Reply #23 on: 22 Jun 2005, 07:46 »

is AC/Dixie that one all Female AC/DC cover band? I remember seeing something like that.
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but the music sucks because the keyboards don't have the cold/mechanical sound they had but a wannabe techno sound that it's pathetic for Rammstein standars.

sp2

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"Rockism"
« Reply #24 on: 22 Jun 2005, 09:45 »

Female AC/DC cover band?  How the hell does that even work?

"we've got big balls
oh we've got big balls
and there such big balls
and they're dirty big balls"

Seriously.
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punkpoet

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"Rockism"
« Reply #25 on: 22 Jun 2005, 11:00 »

i think this whole rockism thing is going on most definetly. hell i see it everyday. hang out with any 17 year old kid who loves metal and they will show you just ho=w bad it can get. but i dont think its a movement, some persons do exibit said behaviour but on the whole i dont think "rockism" is really all that big a problem. i think the bigger problem is stright up emo kids who think that if they cant "feel the song" then its not worht listening to.

however this is strictly my own opinion based on my experiance in life thus far.
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KharBevNor

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"Rockism"
« Reply #26 on: 22 Jun 2005, 11:49 »

That said, no way rap or pop is real music.
omg jk
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[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
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Johnny C

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"Rockism"
« Reply #27 on: 22 Jun 2005, 12:16 »

Quote from: Kai
that one all Female AC/DC cover band

That's AC/DShe.

Khar: OMGWTF U SUXXORZ
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heretic

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"Rockism"
« Reply #28 on: 22 Jun 2005, 12:21 »

Quote from: Mikintosh
I'll listen to most genres as long as they have some bite to it or at least don't offend my ears too greatly; the hardcore rappers and the more twee folk bands are pretty much the only segments of the music community I'll turn off immediately.

i'm guessing you mean mainstream rappers. i'd say MF Doom is pretty hardcore rap, but he's also one of the best lyricists out there. please clarify...
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sp2

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"Rockism"
« Reply #29 on: 22 Jun 2005, 12:51 »

Quote from: KharBevNor
That said, no way rap or pop is real music.
omg jk


While rap is indeed music, it doesn't come from the same lineage as rock-based music.  To me, it seems like rap is the musical descendant of beat poetry, not jazz (which is the ancestor of rock).  Thus, comparing rock to rap is difficult to impossible.  There is decent rap and then there is shit rap.  There is decent rock, and then there is shit rock.  R&B and pop, though, are both derived from rock, and can be judged on the same standards, so it's perfectly fine to say R&B and pop suck cock like it's going out of style.
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KharBevNor

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"Rockism"
« Reply #30 on: 22 Jun 2005, 13:08 »

Quote from: KharBevNor
That said, no way rap or pop is real music.
omg jk


Mainly, I was just taking offence at/advantage of punkpoets generalisation of '17 year old kids who love metal'.

Fuck you buddy :)
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Johnny C

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"Rockism"
« Reply #31 on: 22 Jun 2005, 13:12 »

Quote from: KharBevNor
That said, no way rap or pop is real music.
omg jk

Quote from: To denote that it was in fact a joke, I
Khar: OMGWTF U SUXXORZ

There are different subgroups of 17-year-old kids who like metal:

-putzes who think, for example, that GWAR are serious.
-folks like Khar

I see a balance at my school; I'm sure punkpoet was referring to the former.
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KharBevNor

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"Rockism"
« Reply #32 on: 22 Jun 2005, 13:18 »

Gwar aren't serious!?

But, but, who brought rock and roll to Earth then?

My universe is shattered!
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[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
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[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

punkpoet

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"Rockism"
« Reply #33 on: 22 Jun 2005, 13:30 »

i was referring to the little kids who walk around and think that iron maiden and metallica are the only good bands and everything else is crap compared to them. but who can really blame them i used to be one of them! the problem is we need to curb them into knowing that the be all end all of music isent enter sandman.
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Johnny C

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"Rockism"
« Reply #34 on: 22 Jun 2005, 13:34 »

Quote from: punkpoet
the be all end all of music isnt enter sandman.

Or Stairway.
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KharBevNor

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"Rockism"
« Reply #35 on: 22 Jun 2005, 13:43 »

Quote from: punkpoet
the be all end all of music isent enter sandman.


Stop smashing my world!
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[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
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Johnny C

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"Rockism"
« Reply #36 on: 22 Jun 2005, 13:47 »

Khar: Sassy today, I see!
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KharBevNor

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"Rockism"
« Reply #37 on: 22 Jun 2005, 13:56 »

I'll sass you, boy!
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[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
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Johnny C

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"Rockism"
« Reply #38 on: 22 Jun 2005, 13:56 »

Oh no, please don't throw me in the brer patch!


EDITED BECAUSE I DON'T LIVE ON SOME LITTLE PIECE OF ROCK IN THE MIDDLE OF AN OCEAN SO I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SPELL "BRER" OKAY JEEZ
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KharBevNor

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"Rockism"
« Reply #39 on: 22 Jun 2005, 14:00 »

IT'S BRER PATCH.

YOU RUINED IT ALL YOU FOOL.

RASSINFASSINRASSINFASS
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[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

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Kai

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"Rockism"
« Reply #40 on: 22 Jun 2005, 14:06 »

Quote from: KharBevNor
Gwar aren't serious!?

But, but, who brought rock and roll to Earth then?

My universe is shattered!



NOO! What do I have to live for now?!


But GWAR is coming here sometime in August. I'm thinking about seeing them, heard they put on one hell of a fucking show. Depends on whether I'm there or not though, and money problems.
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but the music sucks because the keyboards don't have the cold/mechanical sound they had but a wannabe techno sound that it's pathetic for Rammstein standars.

esacetaminophen

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"Rockism"
« Reply #41 on: 24 Jun 2005, 21:28 »

"Rockism" has got to be the stupidest term ever made. Try saying "I'm a rockist" or "I'm an anti-rockist" to someone not online and you'll sound like a dumbass.


Folk Rules.
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Conatonc

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"Rockism"
« Reply #42 on: 24 Jun 2005, 23:07 »

I hate the term "rockism" and the posturing and twisting of basic ideas into something completely nonsensical that everyone who writes an article using the term goes through.
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