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Author Topic: Scott Kurtz  (Read 17417 times)

SeanBateman

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Scott Kurtz
« on: 31 May 2005, 18:21 »

Mods, please don't move this out of hand. It's comic related, but it's about the guy not his strip, and less folks read the comics forums.

So why does everyone hate the guy? I think he's generally a pretty good writer/artist, but it seems like he is universally reviled in the webcomics community. Why?
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La Creme

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #1 on: 31 May 2005, 18:29 »

People generally don't like PvP because it tries to be many types of comic (simultaniously sometimes). I personally beleive that it does that well. Most don't share my opinion. But I think PvP is a perfectly decent comic. Not the best and not the worst either. And he is certainly a good comic artist.
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Mnementh

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #2 on: 31 May 2005, 19:12 »

I moved it.  Any conversation about Kurtz is going to be linked to his comic, and it's already taken that turn.

He just seems to have run out of ideas and recycles old ones.  His main claim to fame is knowing Frank Cho and he thinks that he is hot shit.  Plus he likes to pick fights, and frankly, no one likes a bully.

That said, he could be a perfectly nice guy behind the internet persona.
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jarofflies

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #3 on: 31 May 2005, 19:28 »

I read his comic every day.  It's not my favorite, but it's still good. I like it better than Penny-Arcade anyway
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Empty Friend

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #4 on: 01 Jun 2005, 00:52 »

Thems is fightin' words.
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Sideways

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #5 on: 01 Jun 2005, 09:55 »

Well he comes across as this supremely arrogant & condescending asshat, so far as his internet persona goes.  While many other popular webcomic artists/authors are very humble about their success, he name-drops constantly, and seems to love to remind people of his image comics deal.

He just comes across as one of those guys who isn't happy unless he's talking about himself.  He's not even a good artist.  He knows how to draw his very limited selection of characters, in very limited poses/settings... the man can hardly even draw a BACKGROUND!

That being said, I normally chuckle at about 1/20 of his comics, so I do visit every week or so, to catch up, and see if I've missed anything.  I just don't read his posts anymore, as they used to get my ire up something fierce.
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jeph

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #6 on: 01 Jun 2005, 11:45 »

Kurtz can draw a lot better than many people think. The sketchbook stuff he's been posting on weekends is evidence of this. He's got a really tight, easily-identifiable style.

That being said, he does indeed seem to enjoy picking fights. Not really my style, but to each his own.
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Deathmole Jacques' head takes up the bottom half of the panel, with his words taking up the top half. He is not concerned about the life of his friend.

Sideways

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #7 on: 01 Jun 2005, 11:49 »

The reason I don't consider him that great of an artist is - oddly - because of those sketches.  He doesn't have smooth lines, and sort of just attacks the paper, with an idea in his head, until a rough approximation of it is shown.  I don't consider that to be good art.  I am - however - an insufferable snob, who isn't really a good artist in his own right... so maybe I'm projecting insecurities here?  Meh. :)

Yeah, If I saw you pick a fight Jeph, I'd be in total shock.

With Scott Kurtz and (especially) Sean Howard, it's sort of par for the course.

Quote from: James
C'mon, man; he is a good artist. You only have to look at his "very limited selection of characters" to know that.


I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.  My point was that he's only good at drawing those characters, in almost the same poses, every comic.  There's nothing dynamic about his comics, 99% of the time... he could just be copying & pasting as far as I can tell.
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happybirthdaygelatin

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #8 on: 01 Jun 2005, 12:00 »

The artistic style of PvP could easily fit into syndicated stuff, I wonder it's just that alot of the gaming based stuff makes it seem like a hard sell that get's some of the easy way out stereotype thrown into the comic.  No hate here, just not my cup of tea.
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Sideways

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #9 on: 01 Jun 2005, 12:04 »

Kurtz has spoken openly, in the past, about how PVP was designed specifically for Syndication.  However, in pushing the comic for syndication, via the web, he became insanely popular on the web, and switched his focus around 180 degrees.

He's not a bad artist, he's just not an 'artist'.  He's a cartoonist, and he's good at drawing the characters he's already been drawing for years now.  I've just never looked at a single comic/frame/sketch he's drawn, and been wowed, even slightly.

Ian McConville, of www.machall.com fame, now HE is a FANTASTIC artist!  Probably the best I've ever seen on the web!  Well, there was that one comic about the boy and his dog, which was just incredibly well drawn... but I'd still probably put Ian's work ahead of it.
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Sideways

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #10 on: 01 Jun 2005, 13:47 »

Ah, well it's just a difference of opinion then.  He's a competent cartoonist, I wouldn't - personally - say he's 'way beyond competent'.  As for his skills as an artist, I wouldn't even really class him as 'competent'... but I can't say for certain.  His sketches seem lacking, to me, and his comic certainly doesn't show a particularly dynamic flair.  You never know, he may paint abso-fucking-lutely georgeous landscapes and such.  I just don't see it, based on his other stuff.
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Sideways

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #11 on: 01 Jun 2005, 14:58 »

Good question, I suppose I have to find the best way to answer this.

I do see the two as being distinctly different.  I never considered Jim Schultz, Jim Davis, or Gary Larson to be 'artists', because they only drew doodles, really.  What they, and Kurtz did/do is focus on proportion, form and structure in 2 dimensions only.  You don't see Garfield from behind, or in profile, or from a top-view... it's always the exact same 3/4 view, sometimes a straight-on view just to mix it up.  That's not art, that's perfecting one single way of drawing one single character, from the same perspective/distance, constantly.

A Cartoonist, when asked to draw a landscape, could probably do it... when asked to paint a landscape may not be able to, when asked to work in chalks/charcoals, or to work with clay or metal... probably wouldn't be very adept at it.  This will change from person to person of course, but that's the gist of how I see it.

An artist will be able to sit down and paint, draw in pencil & ink, use chalk & charcoal, create dynamic settings, draw from all manner of perspectives/distances, and create so many different KINDS of work (interpretive, abstract, realist, etc).  They'll employ various techniques showing depth, shading, contouring, etc.  Cartoonists, like kurtz, don't (or can't) do any of that.

On the topic of Kurtz, some people say that his sketches prove him as an artist.  I've yet to see a single sketch he's done where the character he is drawing is not in 3/4 perspective.  Even in his random doodles, he limits himself to that single perspective, which - to me - means he is lacking the ability to do anything else.

The work of a typical cartoonist:



Note: other than Garfield in the 3rd comic panel, every single thing is drawn in 3/4 perspective.

Work of a 'cartoonist' who OBVIOUSLY has artistic background:



Note: See how the artist (Ian McConville) plays with perspective, range, depth and colour in order to give everything an organic feel.  There isn't even a reliance on ink outlining, it is all digitally 'painted'.  This comic shows INCREDIBLE depth, and this guy puts out one of these a week, on average, while in school, and presumably working a part-time job.  To me, that means he'd be able to do this daily if it was the only responsibility he had (like Kurtz).

Do you see why I have a distinction between cartoonists and artists?

Of course, there are some 'cartoonists' who are probably fantastically accomplished artists.  If you look to 'Ctrl-Atl-Del-Online' you'll see every single comic employs the 3/4 perspective.  However, when you visit his sketch pages, you see that he obviously has a much stronger grasp on drawing than is shown in his comic.  Kurtz's sketch pages do not show any greater understanding of depth, or perspective.

Make some sense?
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Primate

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #12 on: 02 Jun 2005, 05:33 »

Yeah, Ian's art has grown tons since Mac Hall started. Good stuff.

Back to Kurtz. Scott can be blunt, tactless, and rude, even when he doesn't mean to be. (Last dustup he had with Fred of Megatokyo started with a bad joke he made that made Fred feel bad, and the then Fred whined about it on his webpage, and so it became this "whole big issue". Sometimes the webcomic community is so high school.) He was part of that generation of web comic artists that succeded in changing part of the community into a money making venture (which earned him and others the ire of the non-profit purists). Of course, we're still writing the rules for how to make money from it, so naturally Scott ran into arguments with those other businessmen who's methods he disliked (notably Keenspot). He's also managed to irritate the newspaper comic establishment by trying a business model of giving his strip away free to newspapers in order to increase traffic to his site so he could gouge more money from his advertisers. And he is a relentless self-promoter, which would seem to be part of his business plan.

Personally, I think he has enough good points to balance out the bad, but that's not what this discussion was about. :)
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ThinkDifferent

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #13 on: 07 Jun 2005, 14:34 »

I've never read PvP. All I know about Kurtz is, as Primate mentioned, his little tiff with Fred Gallagher. Now honestly, I can't tell who was in the right there. I don't like Gallagher anyway. I'll explain why later. Fred's account of the whole affair is here. It started with Kurtz saying:
Quote
Luckily, this (Rodney's new baby) is one of Rodney's creations that Fred can't steal out from under him.


Anyway, to all those people who are complimenting Ian McConville: Damn right. McConville produces by far the best art in a webcomic I've ever seen. Of course that seems to make Mac Hall the most rarely and sporadically updating webcomic ever, but I can live with that, just because the art is so stunning. Look at the last panel of this or the fourth panel of this. His art at the beginning was nothing special, but like Jeph's it has evolved to be a hundred times better. He also generally seems to be just a cool guy. He's an art student but not pretentious about it (or whiny...Fred). He produces some hell of art too.

Now, Fred Gallagher. Even after reading his account of his and Rodney Caston's breakup, it still seems to me that Fred stole MT from Rodney. This turned out, in the end, to be a good thing. In the beginning, MT was nothing more than a gamer comic, like Penny Arcade. Now it's one of the most original webcomics out there, and certainly unique.

Fred's a good artist. He can't match McConville, and of course McConville's art is colored. Still, I can't stand Fred Gallagher the person. If you read the MT forums, you'll see evidence of what I'm talking about. Firstly, he has zero ability to take criticism, even if it's constructive. Either he takes it way too seriously, failing to realize he's getting all depressed about something some random guy said on the Internet (apparently he hasn't read a recent IndieTits), or he lashes out viciously at the critic, saying what gives him the right to criticize, if you don't like it, don't read it, or maybe I should just go get a real job. This happens after the most minor things, such as someone noticing that for a few strips, the characters in MT had pupils, then they didn't, and that they looked better with pupils. Fred gave that person a verbal beating.

Secondly, he whines a lot. He'll post a comic, saying, "This comic is crap, I hate it, I hate myself, I hate my life, I'm going to go crawl in a hole and die now." (Mac Hall actually makes fun of him for this.) Then someone says, "Yeah, it's not that great." That someone will suffer Fred's Wrath. This just says to me that Fred is an attention whore. I don't like attention whores.

All this just goes to show you can like a webcomic without liking its artist (I love Megatokyo, I await each new strip eagerly). I'd say PvP is the same for a lot of people: good comic, but don't get started on the artist. QC is different, of course; I like the comic and Jeph seems like a cool guy. Same with the Mac Hall guys.
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Sideways

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #14 on: 07 Jun 2005, 15:06 »

Even though I peruse various popular webcomics, I never really got into Megatokyo... so I never saw what you were talking about... but on brief investigation as a guest in their forums... yeah, the man certainly gets pissy when criticized.

Attention-whore seems about right.  It's either;

Random Forumer: "Hey Great comic today!"
Fred: "Life is a never-ending ball of misery, and this comic sucks more than a $2.00 whore."

or

RF: "Why did you stop drawing <this>... I think it looked cool!  it doesn't look as good now."
F: "Who are you to tell me what looks good, and doesn't in my comic?  I'm not holding a gun to your head, forcing you to read it."

I've attended dozens of art classes in my life (through school, and otherwise) and I've come across MANY people who act this way.  It seems to be a curse, afflicting at least 15% of the 'artist' population.  You'll compliment someone on a painting/sculpture/whatever, and they'll respond by telling you that it's pure shit/drivel/amateurish.  Later, you'll offer constructive criticism, or maybe try to show them a different method of inking that they may not be familiar with (there's a story behind this last example) and they explode in your face, and call you a hack.

Fun stuff.

If someone compliments something of mine, that I think is shitty, I turn around and thank them.  I leave it at that.  I know where I would like to improve, telling them that I think the linework is garbage, or the colouring is all wrong certainly won't help things.

If someone comes to me and says "Hey, I don't think you're really taking advantage of all the space you're working with/you're leaving far too much negative space" I don't whip around, and tear them a new one... I step back, look at the piece, and either agree/fix it, or disagree and explain why I think it'll be fine.


It's a very touchy subject to some people... art, or personal creations.  I've seen a fair share of webcomic artists who take their 'art' WAY too seriously (Sean Howard comes to mind).  They aren't doing it to share this work with people... they're doing it to stroke their own egos... and that's easily the worst reason to publish anything.
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ThinkDifferent

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #15 on: 07 Jun 2005, 15:39 »

That's exactly why I have a lot of respect and liking for artists like Jeph and Ian McConville: they're not whiny, pissy mofos like Fred. Of course, it helps that when Jeph and Ian tweak their art it's for the better, so they don't really get a lot of criticism. The pupils thing - I've commented on that on the MT forums and escaped Fred's notice, fortunately. Seriously, though - how hard can it be to draw black dots in people's eyes, Fred? Give people what they want!

Honestly, though - the day Ian McConville starts working on Mac Hall full-time will be the best day of my life. OK, maybe not. But a pretty awesome day, anyway. I wish both him and Jeph luck in the Web Cartoonist's Choice Awards. They both richly deserve more recognition than they get.
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crazybritishsteve

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #16 on: 08 Jun 2005, 00:37 »

As a huge mt fan, i guess it's up to me to stick up for poor fred. He isn't the best artist, but he IS good. I love mt. Yeah, he can get pissy if you point out when he's done something bellow his usual standard, but you know what? So do i. Then i'll go away, think about it and go 'shit, they were right'. I think that's what fred does too. He does what i think all good artists do naturally: he tries to evolve and make his art better. Okay, his drawing hasn't changed that much, but he does try to do new things with his story. Recently he did a strip where one of the main characters spoke entirely in japanese (kinda). You couldn't understand a word she was saying, but he got across her emotions and meaning with his drawing.

If your gonna say that Ian is good, you have to say that Hawk is damn good to. Yeah, he started by ripping off Ian (he's admitted it himself!), but just like any good artist, he's evolving. Jeph's drawing is evolving all the time too, yet another good artist.

I think that's why Kurtz can not be said to be a good 'artist', but he is a good 'cartoonist'. His skill just doesn't seem to evolve. He doesn't try to improve anything. He's really predictable. I'll bet next week we see a return of the panda attack.
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ThinkDifferent

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #17 on: 08 Jun 2005, 04:22 »

Let me clarify: I love Megatokyo and pretty much everything about it. The art is great (though I've seen better) and the story is the best of any webcomic I've ever seen. The only thing I don't like about MT is its update frequency. There are a lot of Dead Piro Days and Shirt Guy Dom strips.

What I don't like is Fred Gallagher, the person. I respect him as a talented artist and writer, but I don't like him, for reasons I already explained.
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Sideways

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #18 on: 08 Jun 2005, 08:05 »

Yes, Hawk (www.applegeeks.com) is a fantastic artist, but while I'm wowed by his art on occasion, It's never to the same degree as Ian's.

Hawk has anime-styled drawing perfected, with his own quirky style thrown-in... and he is an EXCELLENT colourist... but I've never seen someone digitally paint the way Ian does.  The guy uses light in new and exciting ways!

:P
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ThinkDifferent

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #19 on: 08 Jun 2005, 10:39 »

Well, I'd never seen Applegeeks before (except for a Megatokyo guest strip) and I have to say that's some seriously impressive art. I agree with Sideways, though: Ian McConville is still teh win. McConville's sense of light and shadow is unparalleled, and his technique of blurring backgrounds is just the most visually astounding thing I've seen in any webcomic. The first two panels of this are what I'm talking about. The background is indistinct, yet just defined enough that you can get an idea of where they are. JM's face has hard lighting on one side and soft lighting on the other, suggesting light reflecting off the paper he's holding. Same with his hair. It's almost photorealistic in terms of lighting. Also, JM's expression is just perfect. (Of course, that comic shifts into total lazy-bum mode in the next two panels, but that's excusable.)

I have to say I liked McConville's art better when it had outlines, though, as opposed to now. I recognize that it takes a hell of a lot of talent to do what he's doing now, but my preference is for the earlier days of inked outlines.

And I know he's got a lot of other commitments, but I wish Ian'd get MH on some fixed schedule, even if it is only once a week.
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Sideways

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #20 on: 08 Jun 2005, 10:47 »

I didn't like his departure from inking either, at first... but when I look back to his older, inked work... and compare it with the stuff he's putting out now... there's just no denying how much better the current work looks.

And yeah, it takes INSANE talent to work without borders like that.

Too many webcomic artists (myself included) rely on the inking as a means of holding everything together, and never really branch out into proper digital painting.
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crazybritishsteve

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #21 on: 10 Jun 2005, 05:03 »

Oh look, scott kurtz did an almost panda attack. I must be psychic.
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Primate

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #22 on: 10 Jun 2005, 06:58 »

And comments/contributes to the dustup between Tycho and McCloud. We've come full circle.
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Sideways

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #23 on: 10 Jun 2005, 07:31 »

So after Scott McLoud publically fellated him within his post about Tycho and Gabe (in - what I consider to be - a pathetic attempt to get Kurtz on his side)... Kurtz turns around and basically says;

"Yeah, I like both you guys, but I didn't really start this... I more was 'dragged into it'... so all I can really say is that there are some valid points that Tycho brought up, and yeah... I'm done with it."

In some was I actually found a sliver of respect for Kurtz because of that.  He didn't attack the issue with the same ferociousness that he's shown in the past, but he didn't just totally shy away from it either... and really; Tycho did sorta drag him into this.
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Primate

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #24 on: 11 Jun 2005, 12:49 »

I'm just baffled that McCloud seemed surprised that Tycho's joke and commentary were rude. If you come out of your appearence in a Penny Arcade strip without bodily harm, you've come out ahead. I must admit that it's usually the video game industry that gets that treatment, but still, that is the style over there.
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Sideways

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #25 on: 13 Jun 2005, 09:42 »

It would've been fine for McCloud to come back and say that he felt Tycho's comments to be unfair, and that Tycho should watch the documentary in it's entirety before making broad generalizations about it.

But to DEMAND an apology for his portrayal?  Yeah... umm... that's just plain stupid.  It's called parody for a reason.

And Tycho had an EXCELLENT point in his come-back.  If McCloud is going to fall back on the excuse that his trailer is not indicative of what the documentary actually contains, then Tycho was right in saying that the trailer failed to do what it should've done.

But, this is supposed to be about Kurtz.

I found his comic today was really quite terrible... I normally at least chuckle, or maybe crack a hint of a smile at his comics, and todays... well it was just plain bad.
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crazybritishsteve

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #26 on: 14 Jun 2005, 03:27 »

I thought sunday's was quite good, but yeah, today's was kinda dull.
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ebullientsoul

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #27 on: 14 Jun 2005, 21:20 »

Quote from: Sideways
But, this is supposed to be about Kurtz.

I found his comic today was really quite terrible... I normally at least chuckle, or maybe crack a hint of a smile at his comics, and todays... well it was just plain bad.


That cartoon made me laugh out loud. Hillarious, in fact. Sing it, Kurtz!
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Sideways

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #28 on: 15 Jun 2005, 08:36 »

*checks his patented saraso-meter*

Damn it!  Thing is out of batteries again!
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kmh

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #29 on: 19 Jun 2005, 13:26 »

And now imagine that on the polish webcomics scene all drama is about "that guy didnt put link to my page on his site, he is evil".

 Known from authopsy:)

Back to Kurtz.

I really admire pvp, it is good, not the best, but still very good. But after recent Kurtz's post about CtrlAltDel Ive lost all my respect for him. I dont read CAD but it is just wrong and stupid to write such a crap.

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/?t=news&date=2005-06-16

It is just wrong.

And hello to everybody, this is my first post here, sorry for bad english.
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Gdog4evr

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #30 on: 19 Jun 2005, 20:25 »

I havn't read anything on pvp about CAD, although the article you posted hardly shines CAD in a positive light.  For instance, this in particular:

Quote from: CAD
You want your webcomics history? Fine. "In 2002 a guy who really admired PvP and its creator started his own webcomic, Ctrl+Alt+Del, which became incredibly popular in a short amount of time, making it one of the most quickly-rising webcomics in the field. Only then, he gets publicly attacked by a creator he once respected, but that's ok because Ctrl+Alt+Del goes on to become a world-recognized franchise with video games and a cartoon series based off of the characters that have entertained thousands, while the creator of PvP continues to write whiny, bitter rants about how people aren't kissing his feet like he dreams about."

There. There's your past, present AND future.


Now, this may have been fully deserved, but I can't tell, because he never mentions what Kurts actually said.  He paraphrases it with "How dare they mention CAD in the same paragraph as my holier-than-thou comic!", but it could have been easily been blown out of proportion or taken out of context.

EDIT: Quick question: If you don't read cntrl-alt-del, why did you post a link to an article on that site rather than Kurts'?
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kmh

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #31 on: 19 Jun 2005, 23:37 »

Because i thought that every one knows that Kurtz rant about article from Chicago Tribune or something. And after i read this on pvp i was just curious about reaction of CAD author.

And know i cant quote Kurtz because he edited his article on pvp. argh.
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Sideways

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #32 on: 20 Jun 2005, 12:34 »

Kurtz's original article, which he did edit (and even deleted portions of) stated that he was upset that a "...Comic like Ctrlaltdel-online, which is really just a penny-arcade ripoff, gets the press..."

So I don't think it was unfair for whatshisface from CAD to reply so caustically.

Perhaps, were it me, I would've refrained from the juvenile "YOU'RE GOING TO FAIL, OLD MAN" line of ranting... actually, scratch the 'perhaps', I definately wouldn't have done it.

But, we're talking about a 24 year-old (CAD) and a guy in his mid-late thirties... so there's a pretty big difference here.

The young guy is replying, angrily, to the trolling/flamewar of the older, supposedly more experienced/professional/mature guy?

So yeah, whatshisface from CAD didn't exactly conduct himself in a mature fashion... but that doesn't take away from the fact that Kurtz is a jackass.
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twentyfour

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #33 on: 20 Jun 2005, 12:58 »

Actually Sideways, I don't think Tim(Ctrl Alt Del dude) ever said Kurtz was gonna fail. In fact he just said Kurtz was going to write whiny little essays belittling his peers(something to that effect anyway).

You call it a caustic and juvenile response....well I can understand why. But I think he said what he should of how he should have. He made Kurtz mad and take on his "ho ho ho, I'm bigger and smarter than you so I won't use naughty language and will post short sarcastic comments in response". From what I've seen of Kurtz's angry open letters he loves to come out swingin' then when he gets back what he gave out he takes a high road and acts like someone else started it all.

Kurtz posted a response to a particularly mad CAD reader who was VERY "EFF YOU! You OLD MAN! you SUCK!!! YOU SUCK BALLS!!!" etc etc. Kurtz presented him as if he was the 'average' reader. Kurtz's rant even went so far as to say Tim copied Penny Arcade right down to the annoying little hyphen in the address. That's a bloody cheap shot! www.ctrlaltdelonline.com is a crappy address, that lil hyphen is needed!

Kurtz edited his rant several times to save face, then deleted it and every little angry post he had on the topic as well. Tim still has his online(betcha it's gettin a helluva lotta hits too!) he said he moved on but isn't acting like it never happened. In fact he's shutdown threads telling people it's over and to just enjoy the comics and talk about gaming.

I say Kurtz was acting like a bratty rich-kid, and he covered his tracks well by deleting his posts. He's a smart whiny lil kid with no balls.
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Gdog4evr

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #34 on: 21 Jun 2005, 20:26 »

This all probably explained why Kurts posted on the joys of "deposting" the day after CADs responce.  One thing though:

Quote from: CAD Article
Don't you dare accuse me of ripping off Penny Arcade, a comic I didn't even know existed when I decided to start a webcomic based off of the lives of my best friend and I.


Understandable rage, he feels he's been slandered.  However, take a look at the archives of his site:  http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/?t=archives&date=2002-10-23

For conveience:

Quote from: First line of the first CAD comic
So it's a comic about two guys who sit around and play video games?  Seems a tad cliche, doesn't it?


So Tim was aware that what he was doing was fairly common ground among web comics, but didn't know about the one that really started the particular genre.  If he says it's true I guess we have to take his word on it, but I have trouble accepting it in much the same way that a group of guys who get togeather to make an FPS had never heard of DOOM.

Either way, the whole situation reminds me of two liittle kids getting into a fight, and then afterwords Kurts (the kid who started it) pretending to not know anything.
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twentyfour

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #35 on: 21 Jun 2005, 21:49 »

Just to go counter-point on ya dude. He said he never knew when he decided to make a comic about him and his friends. He probably found out about PA afterwards, loved it and emulated it.

Maybe we should move onto something less 'old' and 'no one gives much of a shit anymore' or else this thread'll be locked
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Gdog4evr

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #36 on: 22 Jun 2005, 15:01 »

Quote from: twentyfour
He said he never knew when he decided to make a comic about him and his friends. He probably found out about PA afterwards, loved it and emulated it.


So...even if he wasn't ripping it off at the beginning, wouldn't he still be ripping it off later on?

Quote
Maybe we should move onto something less 'old' and 'no one gives much of a shit anymore' or else this thread'll be locked


Well, there's only so much contraversy that happens every day.  Any suggestions?

Hey, I wonder...there are hundreds of sites that rip off Penny Arcade (two guys making jokes about video games) and 8-bit Theatre (sprite comic using Final Fantasy), think there are any that seem to rip off QC?
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happybirthdaygelatin

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #37 on: 22 Jun 2005, 15:46 »

The thing that make it so I don't really care for PvP is basicaly the opposite of what Jeph does and says in comic 59:

Quote
Today's strip is my way of flipping the bird at every cartoonist who has ever settled for the simple, obvious punchline.


To me Kurtz has riddled PvP with easy out, obvious punchlines, and generalisations.  Hurr, Star Wars fans are geeks and are so socialy inept they haven't kissed a girl.
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twentyfour

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #38 on: 22 Jun 2005, 20:06 »

PvP is intended to be a product to sell(or means to selling products) why would you want complex punchlines or even asking people to have to think about how the punchline could be funny if you want people to read the strip, chuckle and move on, make it part of their daily schedule. Don't get me wrong, I love a comic that makes you think... but do you think Garfield would have the kind of following it has now if it alienated readers by putting it's punchlines in binary? I just think that if you wanna go whole hog and turn your comic into a big business fast(relatively) then you gotta sell out, and sell out HARD. Make it brainless but endearing(skull). At the very least ya gotta respect the guy for being able to dumb down his work for the mass audiences(even if it is 'somewhat' niche) and still sleep well at night knowing he lobotimized his work.

That said, I got a helluva lot more respect for people who're making the longer tougher road work for them(god bless the net). Milholland, Gabe and Tycho, Abrams(even though he still gets sick/breaks an arm/has a baby/goes on vacation every 2nd or 3rd week), Megatokyo guys, Jeph, uhmmm, you know.. all those bastards that don't have to work day jobs to support their webcomicry *grumble*

:D
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jeph

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #39 on: 22 Jun 2005, 21:34 »

Quote from: Gdog4evr
Hey, I wonder...there are hundreds of sites that rip off Penny Arcade (two guys making jokes about video games) and 8-bit Theatre (sprite comic using Final Fantasy), think there are any that seem to rip off QC?


I know of one that emulates my style of writing pretty closely, and one that stole some of my artwork, redid it in Flash (badly, I might add) and attempted to pass it off as its own. I'm not naming names or linking links because personally I think inter-comic arguing is pretty retarded in the latter case, and because I don't want it to sound like I'm belittling the former.

The kids who are doing the similar-writing strip seem nice and are avowed fans of my work, so I have absolutely no problem if their writing feels familiar sometimes. That is how you start out, emulating your influences. The art thief can get cancer and die as far as I'm concerned. Fortunately his comic is so shitty I don't think I'll ever have to worry about him succeeding through theft of my work.
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Deathmole Jacques' head takes up the bottom half of the panel, with his words taking up the top half. He is not concerned about the life of his friend.

cacahuate

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #40 on: 22 Jun 2005, 22:18 »

I wonder if this whole 'drama' is just staged so they get more traffic.
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Sideways

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #41 on: 23 Jun 2005, 10:49 »

Quote from: Gdog4evr
Quote from: twentyfour
He said he never knew when he decided to make a comic about him and his friends. He probably found out about PA afterwards, loved it and emulated it.


So...even if he wasn't ripping it off at the beginning, wouldn't he still be ripping it off later on?


I play games with my roommate.

Am I ripping-off Penny Arcade?

The differences I see; CAD has continuity, a basic premise/storyline, with the odd obscure comic thrown in based on something topical.

Penny Arcade is, and always has been, random observation.  They settled on the Gabe and Tycho characters to merely illustrate many of these observations, but out of every 10 comics, there are at least 3 which don't even have Gabe and Tycho in them.

So I don't see it as ripping-off Penny-Arcade at all.
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kakeeman

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #42 on: 23 Jun 2005, 11:53 »

Quote from: Sideways
an McConville, of www.machall.com fame, now HE is a FANTASTIC artist!  Probably the best I've ever seen on the web!  Well, there was that one comic about the boy and his dog, which was just incredibly well drawn... but I'd still probably put Ian's work ahead of it.
Do you mean Copper?  I love Kazu Kibuishi, his drawings are so amazing.  I have a copy of Flight, which is a compilation of his and other webcomic-makers' work.  The piece that he put in there has some of the most beautiful cartoon drawings I've ever seen.  Very surreal, very intricate.

Sorry about the randomness of this post, I just thought I'd share the link for people who have never seen it.
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Gdog4evr

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #43 on: 23 Jun 2005, 14:42 »

Quote from: Sideways

I play games with my roommate.

Am I ripping-off Penny Arcade?


Possibly; are you making a web comic about it?

All joking aside, you have convinced me that CAD is not ripping off Penny Arcade.  Influenced, possibly, but not ripping off.  

Holy snaps, I just had an idea... We all know how cliche it is to have a web comic about a guy who makes a web comic, right?  Real Life did it for their intro, and it was funny the first time, but now it's old.  Given that major obsticle, I still feel this may be a good idea:

A web comic based on the drama of inter-webcomic diplomatic relations.  The characters would be parodied versions of real comic makers, with their actions in the comic reflective of their real life personalaties.

This is either one of the best ideas I've ever had or I'm going to be shot by the end of the week, one of the two.  Possibly both.

EDIT: Quote tunnel fixored
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ForteBass

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Scott Kurtz
« Reply #44 on: 23 Jun 2005, 15:01 »

Quote tunnel bad!
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