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Author Topic: UGH. APPLE PROGRAMING VERSUS WINDOWS  (Read 7249 times)

will: wanton sex god

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UGH. APPLE PROGRAMING VERSUS WINDOWS
« on: 23 Jun 2005, 15:03 »

since you guys couldnt keep it out of my topic, i freaking made one FOR you.

now please use it.
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Addius

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UGH. APPLE PROGRAMING VERSUS WINDOWS
« Reply #1 on: 23 Jun 2005, 15:39 »

<_< Java exists for a reason. I've heard of many IT-universities that have begun to give atleast the more basic programming courses in Java so that the plattform for which one program is irrelevant.
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jhocking

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« Reply #2 on: 23 Jun 2005, 17:18 »

BlitzMax!  I mean, um... *backs away sheepishly*

Matteh99

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UGH. APPLE PROGRAMING VERSUS WINDOWS
« Reply #3 on: 23 Jun 2005, 20:48 »

Mac vs PC
Xcode = $0
Visual Studio = $800-$2500

I am sure you can get some free open source thing for windows but Xcode is pretty neat and its umm free.

I am not much of a programer but I know if i want to write a little program I can used xcode on my iMac, for windows I have to farts around getting an bootleg copy of visual studio or get some other 3rd party or open source thing.  Bascially a pain in the ass.

Eric
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Johnny C

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« Reply #4 on: 23 Jun 2005, 21:19 »

Commodore 64 for life.
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Kjammer

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UGH. APPLE PROGRAMING VERSUS WINDOWS
« Reply #5 on: 23 Jun 2005, 23:50 »

Unix always felt like home to me.
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crazybritishsteve

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UGH. APPLE PROGRAMING VERSUS WINDOWS
« Reply #6 on: 24 Jun 2005, 00:27 »

Unix always feels like i'm breaking into someone else's home. I shouldn't be there, and if i get caught i'll be in trouble.
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MilkmanDan

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« Reply #7 on: 24 Jun 2005, 01:03 »

Quote from: Ozymandias (in the previous thread)
Windows programming is pretty much essential in the computing field. I'm only in my third year of CS and I've already had two classes that required the use of Windows APIs.

The first day of class in one of those courses someone asked "What if we have a Mac?" The professor just laughed.


Well it sounds to me like your professor is an ass, but whatever.
I'm wondering if that's a University specific thing though. I'm planning to go to the University of Edinburgh, and IIRC all their computers run Linux. So it seems unlikely that they would require Windows API's. I'll mainly be using Java and POP11, which I'm pretty sure are both platform independant. Well, Java is obviously, but I think POP11 is too.
Other than that, I'll be using PHP and Ruby which both run fine. And I have Xcode for the win.

Anyone else who's done a CS degree have any input?
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crazybritishsteve

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« Reply #8 on: 24 Jun 2005, 01:08 »

Went to lancaster, it was all unix. Java was the main language we used. everything else we used was not platform specific.
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Addius

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« Reply #9 on: 24 Jun 2005, 04:12 »

Quote from: Matteh99
I am not much of a programer but I know if i want to write a little program I can used xcode on my iMac, for windows I have to farts around getting an bootleg copy of visual studio or get some other 3rd party or open source thing.  Bascially a pain in the ass.

hehe, in absolutely no way should one believe that Visual Studio is one of the mainly used programming tools for programming windows applications. I haven't met any "real" programmer that hasn't agreed to it being too bloated and therefore left it unused. I'm sure there's developers out there that uses it but I've yet to meet them.

The only reason I can see why one would want to create windows-specifik programs are if you want to hit a broad commercial homeuser-mass.

One might also want to concider Apples move to the X86 architecture, or whatever perversion they'll have Intel make of it.
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Matteh99

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« Reply #10 on: 24 Jun 2005, 05:54 »

Just out of curriousity what do people write windows programs in?  I have used xcode, Kdevelop (or some such thing that came with Mandrake linux).

I am really currious to see what happens to mac software when the switch to x86 happens.  Will wine and crossover office type programs run on the mac?  If there is a cheap easy way to run windows software on the mac and it goes at almost windows speed..

Eric
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torg

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« Reply #11 on: 24 Jun 2005, 05:59 »

Mono (open source .NET implementation, works on windows, linux, mac) will be the next big thing for cross-platform development.
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mosfet

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« Reply #12 on: 24 Jun 2005, 07:19 »

When I was at U.C. Davis everything was pretty much Unix programming.

As for cross platform if you do it in C/C++ it just has to be done properly.  A properly written program will have no issues with Byte ordering, and will be much easier to migrate between OSX and Win API calls.

Java is all right, but its not the end all answer everyone makes it out to be.  Too many people think it can do anything you want, be easy to implement, and do it as well as other languages.  Its got some severe performance issues in certain areas, for one thing.  And to be truely cross platform, you're limited to what you can make use of.

The key to making applications for multiple platforms, or even making applications for just one, is planning.  People do not plan enough out before they start development.  I've seen too many projects start development with only minimal planning, if any at all.

If you properly deisgn the application architecture, then use proper programming methods, you can make an application that can be easily ported between platform with only library/table changes and minor function call changes.

For the wine/crossover thing, much speculation is still going on as to whether companies will port apps to both, or just take the easy road out and tell you to boot into windows (nevermind the cost of windows).  Someone will most probably port wine or something over.

I'll have to check out the Mono thing, myself.  I'm trying to get back into programming, having last developed in VB6, and recently looking at xcode.
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infract

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« Reply #13 on: 24 Jun 2005, 13:24 »

Quote from: torg
Mono (open source .NET implementation, works on windows, linux, mac) will be the next big thing for cross-platform development.


I doubt that. As long as .NET is a Microsoft initiative, it won't catch on in the open-source, nor the cross platform realm.  It also basically forces you into an interpreted environment, which kills performance. The FUD on the internet says that "managed code" runs within 10% of unmanaged code is bullshit, in my experience. (Yes, I've coded in C#. Not a big fan of it)

That's just my 2.5 years of CS, and numerous years of fiddling talking.

I think Java would be the answer, if it weren't such a bad implementation of a good concept.
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MilkmanDan

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« Reply #14 on: 24 Jun 2005, 14:46 »

Alright. Sweet.
I'll have a shiny, shiny, shiny, shiny Powerbook for Uni then.
I know Java is far from a universal solution, but It is remarkably handy, especially for Artificial Intelligence, which is the area I'm doing.
So that was what caused this topic solved, but feel free to continue debating other ish. Mono, eh? Whatever, I have enough other shit to learn before I get on to that. I need to master XML shizzle, Java, Pop11, C++ and Python first. In that order. I think.
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infract

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« Reply #15 on: 24 Jun 2005, 23:58 »

Quote from: MilkmanDan
I know Java is far from a universal solution, but It is remarkably handy, especially for Artificial Intelligence


I just finished an AI course, and I hate to break your expectations, but we didn't go anywhere near Java, it was all in Prolog.  I know there are unix versions of prolog, so you should be fine on a mac. :)
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est

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« Reply #16 on: 25 Jun 2005, 01:03 »

yeah, it'll probably be in prolog or lisp, i think.  they are the two classical teaching languages for AI'ing it up.  both are fairly well-established, an i'd be terribly surprised if they weren't ported to just about every known system by this point.

also: java burn ssssmeagol, it burnsss usssss!
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mosfet

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« Reply #17 on: 25 Jun 2005, 05:32 »

When I think of Java + AI, I think of a really slow, dim-witted robot.
A Java AI robot would be the one picked on at school by the others.
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MilkmanDan

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« Reply #18 on: 25 Jun 2005, 10:19 »

Nah, it's computer Science and Artificial Intelligence combined, so there's a bunch of Java as well as the more AI-centric Prolog/POP11 ish. So, yeah.
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Johnny C

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« Reply #19 on: 25 Jun 2005, 15:32 »

Speaking of AI, do you think it would be possible to program a computer Pong opponent like that IBM chess computer that could never be beaten?
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jhocking

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« Reply #20 on: 25 Jun 2005, 16:01 »

Creating an unbeatable pong opponent is easy.  The "physics" of the system are trivially easy to understand, so the deciding factor in victory comes down to reflexes.  And the reflexes of a computer are pretty damn good.

Chess AI is much harder to write because the game nullifies the computer's main advantage over the human opponent: the speed that the computer crunches numbers.

mosfet

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« Reply #21 on: 25 Jun 2005, 18:02 »

If the pong game has no limit on the paddle speed, then the Computer can not be beaten.

If the paddle speed has a limited travel speed, then an AI could be developed that could take it into account and play accordingly.  Also if the paddle is designed so that the players can modify the angle and speed at which the ball bounces off (like tennis) then the same goes here.  It'd be more like tennis than traditional pong, but you could have an AI here.  It probably wouldn't be very complicated as AI's go, but its possible.
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