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Author Topic: AMD-based computer,,,  (Read 4853 times)

thermodynamics

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AMD-based computer,,,
« on: 08 Jul 2005, 21:06 »

Hey everybody... i am going to buy a computer soon, and i am wondering whether to settle with a semperon, athlon, or athlon 64 system. i only have about 500 bucks for a system... anyone have any suggestions? all i need is the box (no software or o.s. needed), so that should save some cost. anywho, give me a shout if anyone knows of a good deal. thanks.
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Shinigami-Sama

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AMD-based computer,,,
« Reply #1 on: 08 Jul 2005, 23:04 »

for that budget go for the althalon, the amd64 is way better, but also more bit more more expensive for the perfomance gain, semperon I"m kind wary of, iuno why, but anwyas, althalnons aer cheap now, get yourself a decent one and you;er set
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will: wanton sex god

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AMD-based computer,,,
« Reply #2 on: 09 Jul 2005, 00:42 »

youre building an entire com puter for under 500?
i hope you dont plan to game.

if  youre only like word procesing...and like web browsing hten okay
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FreshJive787

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AMD-based computer,,,
« Reply #3 on: 09 Jul 2005, 02:30 »

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JP

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« Reply #4 on: 09 Jul 2005, 07:59 »

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=A64-3000BP">This Athlon64 3000+ (Venice) is a pretty damn good deal, I think. Don't know how well it fits into your budget, but it's a really good proc for $115, free shipping.
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clockworkjames

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AMD-based computer,,,
« Reply #5 on: 09 Jul 2005, 17:04 »

AMD athlon 64 is very good, its worth it. Even 2800+ is very good and worth it. As for the mobo, if you get one thats okay(gigabyte or abit preferably), do you really need a soundcard? You can get a case cheaper than that and it will still be good, try ebuyer.com.
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thermodynamics

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AMD-based computer,,,
« Reply #6 on: 09 Jul 2005, 23:20 »

thanks for the input. i don't game, but i will be using this for audio recording (right now, i just need to update from the dell laptop that i got when i graduated highschool... 133mb fsb... sucks so bad!)

here is what i want it to do:
run slsk, bittorrent, and mozilla at once without huge slowdown.

be able to have photoshop CS, dreamweaver MX 2k4, and Macromedia flash MX open at the same time and still be fairly swift

play full-screen video with little slowdown

(all of the above i want to do with slsk and bittorrent open in the background)

----

so, i don't need a hardcore graphics card right now, as i am in the process of a buildup. just a nice processor, a lot of ram (probably 2 gigs, but i am not sure), a good mobo with expandability. around christmas i will get a soundblaster audigy or equivilent (for multi-channel output to my stereo reciever), a 4 channel midi/audio in and an ati all-in wonder, so that's 3 slots right there gone. i also NEED wireless g either built in to the board or on a card, because i do not have a cable line run to my computer room.

i know i was vague before, but maybe now that i have clarified that all i am doing is web-design, serious graphics editing (no real video editing, just graphics), and serious audio editing (all on top of my downloads in the background) maybe a setup can be determined.

oh, and i think i will go ahead and get an athlon 64. i just d/l windows xp pro 64 bit edition, and i think it will be a good thing. thanks again in advance for any and all help.
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thermodynamics

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AMD-based computer,,,
« Reply #7 on: 09 Jul 2005, 23:23 »

Quote
Case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811211004


damn! i enjoy that case... i usually get components from tigerdirect.com ...they always seem to have the best deal on stuff if they've got it in stock...
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FreshJive787

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« Reply #8 on: 10 Jul 2005, 16:45 »

tiger direct has just about the same prices as newegg
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clockworkjames

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« Reply #9 on: 12 Jul 2005, 18:43 »

*cough*ebuyer.comrules*cough*

windows xp64 is piss poor ma, i have it and dont recommend it mainly for compatability, nothing seems to run well on it, bar some games. Programs are not happy on it, get windows xp as the beta is poor. Thats why im going opensource asap.
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thermodynamics

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AMD-based computer,,,
« Reply #10 on: 12 Jul 2005, 21:19 »

k. well, i finally decided. here is my setup:


Asus A8V Deluxe Via Socket 939 ATX Motherboard

AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Processor
   
Western Digital / Caviar SE / 200GB / 7200 / 8MB / SATA-150

SimpleTech 1024MB PC4200 DDR2 533MHz Memory
      
NEC ND3520 / 16x8x16x DVD+-RW/CDRW

it is fucking expensive, so i am gonna think on it for a while, but i think that it would be a good bet.
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TheCourtJester

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« Reply #11 on: 14 Jul 2005, 02:05 »

Go TigerDirect if you're buying one or two things...go Newegg if you're getting it all at the same time. TigerDirect has slightly lower prices on some items (though they charge every item individually on shipping), but Newegg will put them all in the same box so shipping is MUCH cheaper.

 If you can help it, don't buy the case online. The case may be cheap, but the shipping charges for a computer case will ass-rape you. Trust me.

That setup looks great...I'm running an A64 3200+, MSI K8n Neo motherboard, GeFroce 6800 GT, and 1 gig of RAM. The AMD proc beats teh crap out of any Intel proc I've seen. I do a lot of video editing so every boost I can get makes all the difference. :)

By teh way...good luck finding ANY system that can run Photoshop, Dreamweacer, and Flash without at least a little slowdown. Running all three at the same time is fucking NUTS. Still, if you want that kind of multitasking, AMD is definitely the way to go.
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SpacemanSpiff

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AMD-based computer,,,
« Reply #12 on: 14 Jul 2005, 15:02 »

Quote from: thermodynamics
k. well, i finally decided. here is my setup:


Asus A8V Deluxe Via Socket 939 ATX Motherboard

AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Processor
   
Western Digital / Caviar SE / 200GB / 7200 / 8MB / SATA-150

SimpleTech 1024MB PC4200 DDR2 533MHz Memory
      
NEC ND3520 / 16x8x16x DVD+-RW/CDRW

it is fucking expensive, so i am gonna think on it for a while, but i think that it would be a good bet.


That's a really good system. Especially the motherboard is good, I have it as well and I can't complain.

As for the harddisk: Seagate also makes really good ones and they have 5 years warranty (at least around here). And they're dead silent. I have two 200gb Seagates and I don't hear a thing.

Something Important: Your RAM is wrong. Athlon64 systems don't need DDR2 nor will they work with it! Get simple DDR 400mhz RAM, that's the right one. Faster DDR RAM won't make your system faster, actually, depending on the RAM it might make it slower.
A good choice is the Corsair ValueSelect 2x512MB DDR 400mhz kit. (Linky: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145440)
I have it and I can say: It definitely works with the motherboard, it's rather cheap and I have tested it thoroughly with Memtest and it found no errors whatsoever. I wouldn't worry too much about timings or voltage if you're not into some serious overclocking.
Also, if you want 1gb of RAM, get 2x512MB, not a single 1024MB. The CPU has dual-channel support and for this, it needs two identical RAMs for that. The manual explains what RAM slots they should be put in, that's important as well.
Dual-channel makes your system quite a bit faster, so I would definitely go for that.

As for the case: I recommend the Chieftech CS-601 series. They might look as cool, but they're solid cases, they have excellent cooling and lots of space and hardware is very easy to install.

Also, you most likely need a new PSU (power supply unit). Get one with 400W or more (depends on your video card - the faster your video card is, the more power your PSU should be able to supply). Those brands make pretty good PSUs: Enermax, OCZ (the ModStream series), Fortron, Elan Vital (I have one of these - rather expensive but extremely efficent and silent), Zalman.
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Se7en

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AMD-based computer,,,
« Reply #13 on: 14 Jul 2005, 16:52 »

Agreed, your looking at the wrong ram.

The best thing to opt for is a socket 754 system, which is just like a 939, but without dual DDR support (ie, less memory bandwidth)

However, the AMD 64 bit platform is VERY forgiving, and you wont suffer much of a performance drop from not having Dual DDR, and even DDR333 works great, with about a 4% performance loss from DDR400 performance.

You can get socket 754 semprons reliatively cheaply (i wouldnt know prices for your part of the world) and you want to get an "nforce 3" based motherboard, which gives exelent performance, and typically the best range of features.

The AMD 64 bit platform is infinately preferable to the old 32bit, or god forbid.. some intel platform. The cooling system is far superior, and the "cool n quiet" feature throttles both fan and clock speed intellegently to keep the noise and power consumption down. As i said, performance is exteremely robust, and as long as you prioritise getting 1gb of memory, the actual memory speed, cpu clock speed, and cpu cache wont really make any noticable difference to performance for all but high end gaming.

The rule for memory, is to buy anything thats branded. Just about all memory comes out of the same 5 factories anyway, so buying a brandname with a manufacturer warrenty gives you a good chance of not getting a lemon, but dont spend extra on expensive ram! its only something to do on absolutely crazy systems.

The same applies to PSUs. The wattage ratings are spurious, a no name 500 watt PSU gives as much power as a decent brand 300watt.
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SpacemanSpiff

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AMD-based computer,,,
« Reply #14 on: 14 Jul 2005, 16:58 »

You're completely right about the PSU.
Edit: And also about the Athlon64 architecture, especially Cool'n'Quiet.

However, I beg to differ about the sockets: The price difference isn't that big and socket 754 is already about to die, whereas 939 will continue to live for some time. That means: You can probably get a CPU upgrade in a few years.

By the way: If you don't keep your video card, you should get a different motherboard that already has PCI-E. You can get better video cards for that already (and cheaper too) and unlike AGP, it won't die within the next year.
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Se7en

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AMD-based computer,,,
« Reply #15 on: 14 Jul 2005, 17:11 »

I wouldnt agree with that at all actaully. I write technical articles for computer rags, so im up to date.

AGP isnt dead, not by a long way. The price difference is negligable, and often done deliberately to make the pci seem like a better deal. I have even seen cards come with memory UNDERCLOCKED as standard on the AGP version, so that it doesnt embarrass its PCI-E sibling.

The fact is, PCI-E is no faster. Its memory speed that holds back most graphics cards, its got very little to do with the interface, and most geeky buyers know that, and wont cough up for an entire new system just to have the new standard. AGP is going to be with us for a long time to come. In my opinion, the best budget card on the market at the moment is the nvidia 6600 GT.

The price difference, last time i checked, is quite big between 939 and 754. Sure, the boards are the same price, but the difference between CPU prices adds up.

You can forget upgrading too. Its no longer practical to think in terms of buying a good motherboard and upgrading the rest as and when you can, since everythings far too integrated for that. The differences between a bottom of the range and top of the range cpu for any one platform are so small that the vast majority of people just wont want to spend the extra. By the time you come to upgrade anyway, the whole shebang is years out of date and you need the full cpu/mobo/ram combo anyway.

Personally, i take system performance totaly for granted. For the vast majority of everything i do, i prefer my athlon 1600 XP system over my Athlon 64 3200. Why? its got a 19" TFT, instead of a pokey 17" TFT. Things like that are becoming far more important now, since almost any PC of the last 2 years is "fast enough".
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SpacemanSpiff

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« Reply #16 on: 14 Jul 2005, 17:35 »

I know that AGP isn't dead, there will be cards out there for a long time, just like you can still buy PCI video cards. And I know that PCI-E isn't any faster, it's more a marketing thing than anything else.
Still, wouldn't you agree with me that if you buy a completely new computer, you might as well get PCI-E since this is definitely the technology that will be used in the computer mainstream for a longer time?
Also, by now, the PCI-E motherboards tend to be slightly better when it comes to features (plus I haven't seen any passively cooled AGP nForce boards yet).

I agree, the best budget card right now is the nVidia 6600GT. Personally, I would get the passively cooled model by Gigabyte, but that's probably my own fanatic idea about building a silent computer. Still, the 6600GT definitely offers the best bang for the buck (and better drivers too, especially if you use Linux).

I know that hardly anyone upgrades these days, but if you're at it, again, why not get the technology with more future? If the difference is about 15 bucks, at least I would be willing to pay for it.
Which brings me to the price difference when it comes to socket 754 vs. 939: At least over here, the difference is not big. Example (I used Alternate for this, it's one of the biggest computer hardware shops in Germany): Socket 939 3000+: 119€ (not boxed) vs Socket 754 3000+: 124€ (not boxed).
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Se7en

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« Reply #17 on: 14 Jul 2005, 17:50 »

okay, the difference isnt much when you compare cpus of the same PR rating, but try comparing the cheapest 754 cpu with the cheapest 939 cpu, and you will see its a fair bit more money that would be better spent elsewhere.

If you want pci-e, that forces you to use socket 939, bringing the total price up, Remember we are talking about a very cheap system here, and the idea is to avoid being forced to use legacy socket A kit, and still have the money for plenty of ram and a big hard drive. When you are working to budget, you have to be VERY strict about specifications, and prioritise things very carefully.

By the way, i understand your dream for a quiet computer. I even use a totally passively cooled PSU, and i have experimented with inert hydrocarbon cooling.
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Se7en

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AMD-based computer,,,
« Reply #18 on: 14 Jul 2005, 17:53 »

Yeah, just checked and its DOUBLE the price to go socket 939.
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thermodynamics

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AMD-based computer,,,
« Reply #19 on: 15 Jul 2005, 23:37 »

thanks for the heads up on the memory... what i will probably do is modify my setup a little bit, but i am sure i am getting:

the listed motherboard... it has everything i need on one board. i will eventually get an ati all-in-wonder card, but until then i will use the mobo's video.

athlon 64 at least 3500+

minimum of 1gb of ram... i might just get 4x 512mb and have a meaty 2 gb ram.

a serial ata h.d.

a streamlined case. i don't want a gaudy, glowing, flashy piece of shit. i want sleek lines and simplicity. most aluminum cases have these qualities, but i am open to anything.

a dvd-rw+/rw- drive.

other than that, i don't care. i have copies of windows to install. i have mice. i am going to get a mac usb keyboard. i have speakers, i have a monitor.
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SpacemanSpiff

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AMD-based computer,,,
« Reply #20 on: 16 Jul 2005, 04:39 »

Quote from: Se7en
By the way, i understand your dream for a quiet computer. I even use a totally passively cooled PSU, and i have experimented with inert hydrocarbon cooling.

Ooh, now I'm curious. What cooler are you using?
Because I've never heard of a CPU cooler able to cool an Athlon64 passively under load unless you modify your case and add about 6kg of pure copper radiators or something.
Hence, I still have active cooling, even if it's pretty silent (Thermalright XP-120 with a Papst 4412 F2/GLL). But I'm always open to suggestions...

Thermodynamics:
If by "the listed motherboard" you mean the Asus A8V Deluxe: It has no video on board. You will need a video card or your system won't work. Of course, you could just use your old one, I guess that's an AGP or PCI card as well so it would work.

If you get 2gb of RAM, you could also consider getting 2x1gb - that way, you still have two slots open for further expansion.

As for the case: If you want something cheap and good with okay looks, I can only say: Chieftec

If you have the money to get an aluminium case and you are actually interested in it (remember: They're damn expensive), I would recommend Lian-Li. I have a Lian-Li PC-6083A and it is indeed a very good case, albeit a very expensive one.
Oh, Lian-Li's design also usually rocks.
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nexus

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AMD-based computer,,,
« Reply #21 on: 24 Jul 2005, 22:23 »

Hey, your setup sounds good for the budget you're on. And since you have a small budget I would definately avoid an aluminum case. You don't want to spend 1/3 of your budget on the case.

Just get whatever cheapo case looks good to you. The only concern you should have beyond aesthetics is the included power supply, and with the parts you're running you don't need to be too concerned about that either.

And FYI you may want to consider a PATA drive instead of SATA with the motherboard you've picked. It would get rid of a lot of potential hassle and you're not going to get any performance benefit from SATA with that drive.

EDIT: Didn't notice this thread is a week old. You've probably already decided on everything.
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