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Author Topic: J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread  (Read 29354 times)

Outshined

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #100 on: 27 Apr 2006, 20:37 »

Quote from: PrinceMyshkin
Man, Outshined hasn't shown his face for a while.


I'm still here.  

In regards to musicians being bad role models, with songs about sex and violence:  Yeah, it's true that basically every band does that.  But it is the context and the intent behind the words that is important:  rock bands usually gripe about how bad drugs messed them up or whatever, essentially discouraging listeners from doing the same thing.  Rap, on the other hand, glorifies drug usage as a lifestyle.  (The get drunk and bang mentality).  I'm sure there are some rock bands just as bad,  but with mainstream rap that is almost a necessary component in a popular song; how messed up is that?
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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #101 on: 27 Apr 2006, 20:48 »

Quote from: thermodynamics
dre love

I think his producing is overrated.
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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #102 on: 27 Apr 2006, 22:21 »

Quote from: Outshined
Quote from: PrinceMyshkin
Man, Outshined hasn't shown his face for a while.


I'm still here.  

In regards to musicians being bad role models, with songs about sex and violence:  Yeah, it's true that basically every band does that.  But it is the context and the intent behind the words that is important:  rock bands usually gripe about how bad drugs messed them up or whatever, essentially discouraging listeners from doing the same thing.  Rap, on the other hand, glorifies drug usage as a lifestyle.  (The get drunk and bang mentality).  I'm sure there are some rock bands just as bad,  but with mainstream rap that is almost a necessary component in a popular song; how messed up is that?


This depends on interpretation.  I can listen to a rock star ranting about their drug abuse and think "Goddamn, he's a fucking rock star, what he does must be cool" and voila, the rock star is advocating drug use to me.  I can listen to a rap star doing the same and think "Well, I certainly don't want to end up like him, better stay away" and said rap star is suddenly an anti-drug figure.  I think a lot (not all, because there is definitely more intentional glorification of this stuff in rap than there is in rock nowadays ... but a lot) of people's problems with rap is that they percieve glorification when it's really an ambiguous message, and I've got a hunch that this is usually the result of a bias.  That's OK, we've all got our biases, but I would shy away from objectively judging rap in this fashion, because if you listen to a lot of it with the intention of hearing an ambiguous message, I think you'll find a lot more of them than you did previously.
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eternie

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #103 on: 28 Apr 2006, 00:57 »

In my college square yesterday there were bands playing, and there were these two guys rapping etc, and I was incredibly impressed. I have nothing against rap, just never found anything to get into.
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PrinceMyshkin

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #104 on: 28 Apr 2006, 11:36 »

Outshined wrote...
Quote
I'm still here.


That's good to hear, man. Have you checked out an of the numerous artists that have been mentioned here? If you'd like anti-violent good rap, I'd recommend (just off the top of my head) Common, MF Doom (who goes by different names, most recently Danger Doom), Mos Def, The Roots, and Public Enemy. You also might like Flipsyde, they have good latin-sounding guitars. I'd love to hear what you think of any of those artists, or any other one you choose to listen to, for that matter.

By the way, I'm considering writing a paper called N.W.A: Nihilism Wit Attitude. It would be about the elements of nihilism within Straight Outta Compton.
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jose

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #105 on: 28 Apr 2006, 12:03 »

http://www.whoa-b.com/audio/whoa-b_-_welcome_to_grimerock.mp3

Whoa-B - Welcome to Grimerock

Sweet DJ set, mixes in some grime, and a little crunk and dancehall

has my favorite grime track, Roll Deep - When I'm 'ere
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Tinjessla

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #106 on: 28 Apr 2006, 13:35 »

I'm into a few artists/bands people have already mentioned. Some being Blackalicious, Roots Manuva, Beastie Boys, Outkast, The Lab Rats and Danger Doom.

That being said, i'm more into DJ's and turntableists which encorporate hip-hop and general mash-uppery. Artists which get muchos love from me would be..

DJ Shadow
David Jack
DJ Spooky
Coldcut
Quantic
DJ Kentaro
Cassette Boy
Kid Koala
The Kleptones
Go Home Productions
Bikini Bandits
Kid Acne
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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #107 on: 28 Apr 2006, 14:27 »

You want some recommendations? Listen to "Teacher" by Daft Punk, haha!
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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #108 on: 28 Apr 2006, 15:17 »

I was scanning through the pages here...I'm a bit saddened that no one has mentioned DJ Krush, as he's one of the all time greatest producers. His album with Toshinori Kondo is legendary.
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Tinjessla

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #109 on: 29 Apr 2006, 04:18 »

Legendary, eh? I might look that up. I've only got one song by DJ Krush (With Grace), which is floating around my MP3 player, but i liked what i heard.
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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #110 on: 29 Apr 2006, 04:34 »

My impression of "Crunk" is that it's what happens when white kids from suburban Northern California get ahold of a Playskool keyboard and hit the same three keys repeatedly. Maybe it's dance music for people who don't know how to DANCE. Fuckin kids love it here. Not to repeat the sam thing...but there's so much better stuff out there.
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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #111 on: 29 Apr 2006, 04:50 »

Quote from: Outshined

 rock bands usually gripe about how bad drugs messed them up or whatever, essentially discouraging listeners from doing the same thing.  


You obviously have not listened to Hawkwind lately.
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but the music sucks because the keyboards don't have the cold/mechanical sound they had but a wannabe techno sound that it's pathetic for Rammstein standars.

toolazytothinkupaname

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #112 on: 29 Apr 2006, 06:40 »

KRS-ONE.



Discuss.
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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #113 on: 29 Apr 2006, 06:43 »

One and three quarter thumbs up.
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Luke

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #114 on: 29 Apr 2006, 08:45 »

For the few hip-hop artists that I listen to, I consider there to be a difference between rap and rap music. I enjoy rap once in a while - G-Unit, Dr. Dre, Eminem, etc. - but the stuff I listen to more often is the actual music. This is stuff like Kanye West, Pretty Ricky, and even Tupac just because he has more interesting beats behind his lyrics.

Also, I'm going to mention John Legend. He doesn't rap but he's more towards the R&B genre and is absolutely amazing.
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Phrozen

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #115 on: 29 Apr 2006, 19:10 »

Wierd question: Is Nujabes a rapper or a DJ?

The only Nujabes I know of did the music for an anime called Samurai Champloo. I love the music so I was just curious...
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PrinceMyshkin

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #116 on: 29 Apr 2006, 19:12 »

See, I feel Eminem is the epitome of a fault-line artist- an artist who straddle both sides of the game effortlessly. It's a shame he wants to be so silly/misoginistic/bad, but when he wants to he can be amazing. Listen to his tracks off the 8 Mile soundtrack, they are amazingly self-reflective.
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Phrozen

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #117 on: 29 Apr 2006, 19:19 »

Ignore previous question, I found a wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nujabes

wikiwiki!
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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #118 on: 29 Apr 2006, 23:16 »

I highly recommend the following:

The Roots
A Tribe Called Quest
Eyedea and Abilities (insanely talented MC and DJ combo)
Atmosphere
Kanye West
N.W.A.
Mos Def

Plus most of the other stuff mentioned.
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PrinceMyshkin

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #119 on: 01 May 2006, 12:16 »

if any of you guys like mashups, then check this out:

http://members.home.nl/supermiep/Disfunctional_DJ_-_You're_The_One_That_I_Want_In_The_Next_Episode.mp3

It's a remix of a song from Grease and Dr. Dre!!

Yeah, it's awesome.
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toolazytothinkupaname

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #120 on: 01 May 2006, 12:35 »

Nooo! Enough of the mashups! It already went too far with Tunnels/My Humps, aka "Hump my Tunnel".
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JodyAnthony

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #121 on: 01 May 2006, 12:36 »

I must say I do like me some atmosphere. thats about it though. though honestly i never gave much more a chance.

EDIT: mashups or whatever they are called pretty much always suck. (in my opinion, of course)
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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #122 on: 02 May 2006, 09:19 »

A few mashups I've heard have been incredible. Lie Big Shot by Billy Joel vs. Big Pimpin' by Jay-z. Hilarious and incredible.
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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #123 on: 02 May 2006, 11:55 »

Some mashups can be great.

The Q TV show did some great stuff. Bootylicious vs. Smells Like Teen Spirit was great, but even better was Ray Of Light vs. Pretty Vacant/God Save The Queen.
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emody

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #124 on: 03 May 2006, 12:17 »

Quote from: est
I have no problems with them rapping about sex and violence, it's just the way that they do it.  Most of the artists on my list (and probably on others, too) do address gangsta elements, but they try to do it in a way that doesn't seek to glorify and promote it.  (the obvious exceptions in my list would be Ice Cube & NWA).  

Most rap that I've heard talks about some kind of social problem.  To use an example I wrote a while ago, if given the choice I'll take say:

Grandmaster Flash, The Message:
"Broken glass everywhere
People pissing on the stairs, you know they just don’t care
I can’t take the smell, I can’t take the noise
Got no money to move out, I guess I got no choice
Rats in the front room, roaches in the back
Junkie’s in the alley with a baseball bat
I tried to get away, but I couldn’t get far
Cause the man with the tow-truck repossessed my car"

over Ludacris from Chingy's Holiday Inn:
"Stop, drop, KABOOM!, baby rub on ya nipples
Some call me Ludacris, some call me Mr. Wiggles
Far from little, make ya mammary glands giggle
Got 'em under control, the bowl of tender biddles"

or 50 Cent from "P.I.M.P" :
"I told you fools before, I stay with the tools
I keep a Benz, some rims, and some jewels
I holla at a hoe til I got a bitch confused
She got on Payless, me I got on gator shoes "


It's like, the people at the bottom aren't getting the airplay any more, it's more the cocks at the top who are making money just bragging about it & telling people that they can do it too if they just push drugs to their friends and neighbours & rent out their girlfriends as whores.  That's not the kind of message that should be given airplay.

I understand though that it's as much a problem with society as it is with hip hop in itself.  There's a market for this shit because everyone's become more self-centred and materialistic.  But then that's a conversation for another time, on another board.


http://www.sing365.com/music/Lyric.nsf/Hopeless-lyrics-Ludacris/CA86348B80AB2EF948256F5F0008927D

That's a Ludacris song, and right about now you look like a moron.
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Bunnyman

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #125 on: 03 May 2006, 14:53 »

Quote from: JLM
I was scanning through the pages here...I'm a bit saddened that no one has mentioned DJ Krush, as he's one of the all time greatest producers. His album with Toshinori Kondo is legendary.


Krush is amazing.  Though I wouldn't go for 'songs' so much as 'albums.'  I really liked Code 4109 (ok, so it wasn't his best, but damn entertaining). and Kakusei is tasty stuff.  Jaku's good, in it's own way, though I'm admittedly a bit burned out on it.

And have you seen video of the man perform?  He's so zen.  Practically one with the turntable.  Coolest man alive.
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MilkmanDan

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #126 on: 03 May 2006, 19:03 »

Quote from: emody
http://www.sing365.com/music/Lyric.nsf/Hopeless-lyrics-Ludacris/CA86348B80AB2EF948256F5F0008927D

That's a Ludacris song, and right about now you look like a moron.


Uh. What? I assume your point is that Ludacris also does songs with more depth than "rub on your nipples etc". That's great. How exactly does that make Est a moron? He just said he'd rather listen to the lyrics from The Message than the ones from Holiday Inn. Which seems fair enough to me.

On a more positive vibe, Krush live is pretty much the best turntablism you'll ever see. Fuck sily body tricks and fancy beat juggles, that man really does make the turntable an instrument.
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Bunnyman

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #127 on: 03 May 2006, 22:16 »

I suggest emody and est enter a freestyle rap battle.
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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #128 on: 03 May 2006, 22:24 »

Quote from: Bunnyman

And have you seen video of the man perform?  He's so zen.  Practically one with the turntable.  Coolest man alive.



I actually saw him perform live, And were it not for the unbelievably cheesy crowd, I'd say it was probably the third best hip hop DJ/Producerset I've ever seen (though I've seen better turntablists, in terms of blending and creating sounds with just the records this was aces).

Not that you asked, but the performances in order:
5. Coldcut
4. DJ Food & DK: Solid Steel tour
3. DJ Krush
2. RJD2 (see his live set if you can...it's just awesome)
1. DJ Andy Smith (Seriously, anyone who can go from Barry White to Tom Jones to the Young Black Teenagers without skipping a beat or batting an eye wins).
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PrinceMyshkin

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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #129 on: 04 May 2006, 14:08 »

Speaking of DJ's, I gots me two words: Afrika Bambattaa. AMAZING.

Looking for the perfect beat...and he came damn close.

Also, one problem DJs have today is that everybody puts scratchs into their songs! Argh! Like NWA said back in Straight Outta Compton, right after a in-track scratch: Man that's wack, everybody does that.
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J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
« Reply #130 on: 07 May 2006, 17:55 »

Few things I wanna say:


1) I think est has been pretty spot-on with what he's saying.


2) T.I. is an amazing lyricist.
    wut u know about dat
    wut u know about dat
    wut u know about dat
    i know all about dat
    [/list:u] wait... nope, I was wrong.


    3) Someone mentioned crunk being big up here in NorCal... but to tell the truth, hyphy music is WAY more popular.  

    Just look at how E-40's new record is doing... since hyphy is a NorCal creation, kids relate to it more, so it's pretty huge up here. That said, as far as hip-hop goes, it still has too many of the same negative messages... *sigh*


    4) re: hip-hop vs. rock -
    The main difference  between their influences is a matter of connection and relation.  With rock, we may connect to the lyrics or music, but it's not necessarily a reflection of the rock star's life, i.e. we don't relate to the rock star lifestyle.    None of us ever looked at Motley Crue or GNR or U2 and said "I identify with their life story - they came from the same place where I came from."  The whole "rock star lifestyle" is meant to be a fantasy, and not meant to be reality-based or at all true-to-life.  

    With hip-hop, not only does the art puport to be true-to-life, but a lot of the artists are coming from the same situations that their target audience comes from: inner city, bad neighborhoods, little  money, often no father (NOT stereotyping - it's actually a big problem in the Black community).  So a lot of inner-city Black kids see these rappers as role models - someone who comes from the same situation and made it - and with a lack of a father figure (for some, not all), the influence is even stronger.  For we adults who choose to do so, we can see gangsta rap as an "artistic choice" and not take it so literally.  

    So with the younger kids who see the rap game as a way to make it out of the ghetto, it's more seen being closer to reality, and with little other surrounding influence encouraging them to become educated and become more than they are, they're much more likely to emulate that gangsta lifestyle.
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    J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
    « Reply #131 on: 07 May 2006, 18:25 »

    Don’t mean to start an argument here, but what about the hundreds of rock artists who don’t play up the rock star lifestyle and who make songs relevant to their target audience? There are a lot of them you know.
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    J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
    « Reply #132 on: 07 May 2006, 18:40 »

    What about nerdcore?

    It is obvious I think that there were overall generalisations being made there. He's talking about the mainstream.
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    J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
    « Reply #133 on: 07 May 2006, 19:32 »

    Indeed - there were generalizations being made about rock, as there were about rap, that were necessary to make a point.  I'm basically just talking about what's "popular" right now, mainstream stuff.  As this thread has shown, gangsta rap is by no means representative of rap as a genre - it's simply what's selling right now.  

    In terms of connecting to and influencing an audience, I think rap music has something over other genres.  Throughout much of its history, it's told the stories of the downtrodden, the stories of inner-city Black people and what they have to go through and experience, something that wasn't represented in the music world.  To have music that finally relates to your situation, something you can really connect to on a basic level, is pretty rare, and so is quite powerful.    

    What I'm trying to get across is kind of difficult to explain.  For most Black people growing up, pretty much every medium - television, movies, music, even print - was dominated by the majority culture.  Basically, you have to imagine looking around and seeing hardly who looks like you, who's had similar experiences as you - trust me, it's an alienating experience.  That alienation, combined with frustrations about inner city life, was part of what brought rap music around in the first place.  To finally see your people making songs about your situation and the problems you face -- problems that America wants to ignore and sweep under the rug -- and seeing it in a musical style that you can call your own - that's heady stuff.  Giving voice to the voiceless - that's what made rap so powerful.  

    That power and influence is still present in the inner cities of America.  Most inner-city Black kids are pretty much listening to hip-hop as their main genre.  The problem is that now the messages of the mainstream acts are all about sex and drugs.  I'm not saying that rock hasn't been the same way (again, Motley Crue, GNR), but the way it's told is way different.  

    The Crue never explicitly said "I sold drugs on my way to the top, it's how I got quick money" - many gangsta rappers, on the other hand (Biggie, Jay-Z, 50 Cent, WC, just to name a few) have essentially said that exact thing.  And the kids hearing this are seeing the drug dealers every day, driving around in Benz's and BMW's, so it's just getting into their heads even more that dealing drugs is a great way to get easy money.  Never mind that it's also a great way to get DEAD....  Without getting into all of it, the main problem is the glorification of those problems (drugs, violence) which are plaguing the inner cities.  And don't even get me started on the misogyny... "boys will be boys" is one thing, but rock music was never as overtly explicit and derogatory as mainstream rap has become.  


    Of course, there are lots more factors involved on many different sides of the issue, but i'm trying to keep it relatively short (LOL).  So yeah, that's why rap so damned influential.
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    Quote from: Kai
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    J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
    « Reply #134 on: 07 May 2006, 22:23 »

    Quote from: many people
    the rap from "Holiday Inn"

    I just realized that, really, this isn't a great example. Consider Kanye West's "Diamonds From Sierra Leone" remix. The following is an excerpt from Kanye's verse:

    ...these ain't 'Conflict Diamonds'
    Is they Jacob? Don't lie to me, man
    See, a part of me say keep shinin'
    How? When I know what a 'Blood Diamond' is
    Though it's thousands of miles away
    Sierra Leone connected to what we go through today
    Over here, it's a drug trade, we die from drugs
    Over there, they die from what we buy from drugs
    The diamonds, the chains, the bracelets, the charms-es
    I thought my Jesus piece was so harmless
    'Til I seen a picture of a shorty armless


    And consider Jay Z's guest rap:

    The chain remains, the game is intact
    The name is mine, I'll take the blame for that
    The pressure's on, but guess who ain't gon' crack?
    Pardon me, I had to laugh at that
    How could you falter, when you the Rock of Gibraltar
    I had to get off the boat, so I could walk on water
    This ain't no tall order, this is nothing to me
    Difficult takes a day, impossible takes a week
    I do this in my sleep
    I sold kilos of coke, I'm guessin' I could sell CDs
    I'm not a business-man, I'm a business, man!


    So as you can see, guest raps are probably statistically poor places to typically cull socially conscious rap from. Jay-Z had plenty of opportunity to Say Something there but he ignored it. And frankly, that rap is killer, although the Jesus comparison has nothing to do with the rest of the song.

    I understand the argument has nothing to do, really, with "Holiday Inn," but rather the values Luda espouses (or fails to) therein. However, I just wanted to point this out.
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    J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
    « Reply #135 on: 08 May 2006, 01:15 »

    this thread is fucking infuriating.  I hope all the same people who are up in arms about the violent/sexual messages in mainstream hip hop say the same when discussing pre-war blues.

    I'll just quote a little Mississippi John Hurt:

    here's your sexual hip hop candy metaphor:
    Quote
    Well all you ladies gather 'round
    That good sweet candy man's in town
    It's the candy man
    It's the candy man
    He likes a stick of candy just nine inch long
    He sells as fast a hog can chew his corn
    It's the candy man...
    All heard what sister Johnson said
    She always takes a candy stick to bed
    Don't stand close to the candy man
    He'll leave a big candy stick in your hand
    He sold some candy to sister Bad
    The very next day she took all he had
    If you try his candy, good friend of mine,
    you sure will want it for a long long time
    His stick candy don't melt away
    It just gets better, so the ladies say


    misogynistic macho violent hip hop:
    Quote
    Ain't nobody's dirty business, how my baby's treatin' me
    Nobody's business but mine
    Ain't nobody's doggone business, how my baby's treatin' me
    Nobody's business but my own

    Some of these mornin's, gonna wake up crazy
    Gonna grab my gun and kill my baby
    Nobody's business but mine
    Ain't nobody's doggone business, how my baby's treatin' me
    Nobody's business but my own

    Some of these mornin's gonna wake up boozy
    Gonna grab my gun, gonna kill old Suzie
    Ain't nobody's business but mine
    Goin' back to Pensacola, goin' to buy my babe a money moulder
    Nobody's business but my own

    Say babe, did you get that letter?
    Would you take me back, I'll treat you better?
    Nobody's business but mine
    Ain't nobody's doggone business, how my baby's treatin' me
    Nobody's business but my own

    Ain't nobody's doggone business, how my baby's treatin' me
    Nobody's business but my own

    Some of these mornin's, goin' to wake up crazy
    Gonna grab my gun, gonna kill my baby
    Nobody's business but mine
    Ain't nobody's doggone business, how my baby's treatin' me
    Nobody's business but my own

    Ain't nobody's doggone business, how my baby's treatin' me
    Nobody's business but my own



    Story telling gansta rap:
    Quote
    Mrs. Collins weeped, Mrs. Collins moaned,
    to see her son Louis leavin' home
    The angels laid him away

    The angels laid him away,
    they laid him six feet under the clay
    The angels laid him away

    Mrs. Collins weeped, Mrs. Collins moaned,
    to see her son Louis leavin' home
    The angels laid him away

    Oh, Bob shot once and Louis shot too,
    shot poor Collins, shot him through and through
    The angels laid him away

    Oh, kind friends, oh, ain't it hard?,
    to see poor Louis in a new graveyard
    The angels laid him away

    The angels laid him away,
    they laid him six feet under the clay
    The angels laid him away

    Oh, when they heard that Louis was dead
    all the people they dressed in red
    The angels laid him away


    These are far from the exception.  Bessie Smith sings about shooting her man with a "fourty-four" if he cheats on her.  Here's some John Lee Hooker "Look man, I told you one time before
    But this time, I'm gonna teach you,
    a little lesson, you won't forget
    Take this man, right down by, the riverside
    I might drown you,
    I might shoot you,
    I don't know
    gonna tie your hands, gonna tie your feet
    gag you so you can't talk to nobody
    I'm mad, rrrrr, I'm mad with you
    you're sinkin', I'm mad"

    I'll wait for the chorus of people who say that's only "pop blues" and that they only listen to the underground socially conscious blues.  


    I would probably not be bothered if people were just like "I don't dig the sound" but there was a lot of

    Quote from: Outshined
    Hip hop, isn't that the genre of music where they only ever sing about getting rich, knifing "gangstas" and boning drunken hoes?  Yeah, I think that was the one.


    Quote from: Not An Addict
    He's right about mainstream hip-hop, though. Bitches, ho's, blunts, big pimpin', candy shops, Polaroid pictures.


    and
    Quote from: Praeserpium Machinarum
    I'll join the choir who dislike gangsta. I think the views they express through rapping are misguided and stupid. The message is what I have a problem with, to say that is akin to listening to a nazi band is a bit strong but I definitely disagree vehemently. Why? because I think it has a debasing effect, glorifying violence, degrading women, promoting ignorance etc. and the music isn't even that great. The most horryfying aspect being crunk and lord of shouting, Lil' Jon. It is a disease that needs to be rid ;)

    in this thread

    I mean those were the blantantly bad responses.  A lot of people who responded were like "no that's just mainstream rap" "you're so close-minded when you say that; you should listen to old school, indie, and backpacker rap" without the slightest hint of irony.

    Quote from: onewheelwizzard

    This depends on interpretation.  I can listen to a rock star ranting about their drug abuse and think "Goddamn, he's a fucking rock star, what he does must be cool" and voila, the rock star is advocating drug use to me.  I can listen to a rap star doing the same and think "Well, I certainly don't want to end up like him, better stay away" and said rap star is suddenly an anti-drug figure.  I think a lot (not all, because there is definitely more intentional glorification of this stuff in rap than there is in rock nowadays ... but a lot) of people's problems with rap is that they percieve glorification when it's really an ambiguous message, and I've got a hunch that this is usually the result of a bias.  That's OK, we've all got our biases, but I would shy away from objectively judging rap in this fashion, because if you listen to a lot of it with the intention of hearing an ambiguous message, I think you'll find a lot more of them than you did previously.


    I agree with most of your points, except I'm less "okay" with peoples biases.  my bias is that if you like music you should be open minded about it, not one of those "OMG i liek everything but [mainstream] country and [mainstream] rap" people
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    Scandanavian War Machine

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    J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
    « Reply #136 on: 27 Jul 2006, 12:31 »

    i thought i would resurrect this thread to see if anyone here listens to Haiku D'etat. i have been listening to them alot lately and really enjoy it, so i thought i'd see what you guys thought about them.

    for the record, the group consists of aceylone, mikah 9, and abstract rude.

    good stuff.
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    Quote from: KvP
    Also I would like to point out that the combination of Sailor Moon and faux-Kerouac / Sonic Youth spelling is perhaps the purest distillation of what this forum is that we have yet been presented with.

    Jolouie

    • Guest
    J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
    « Reply #137 on: 31 Jul 2006, 00:11 »

    Busdriver.
    Juggaknots.

    They're the only two I haven't seen just by skimming over this, although I'm sure they've been at least mentioned.
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    Johnny C

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    J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
    « Reply #138 on: 31 Jul 2006, 01:06 »

    I like you, Jose.
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    [02:12] yuniorpocalypse: let's talk about girls
    [02:12] Thug In Kitchen: nooo

    The Eyeball Kid

    • Guest
    J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
    « Reply #139 on: 31 Jul 2006, 07:18 »

    Ok... i don't listen to any rap besides like Eminem, Buck 65, and Sage Francis (and even that not much). I've heard a bit of stuff, like early stuff and what little i hear when i'm accidently exposed to mainstream music... but i'm just not into it.
    What would you guys recomend? I don't even like the Beastie boys... Kanye is pretty cool, i guess. i'm more of a classic rock/indie pop/twee kinda dude

    there must be SOMETHING i'd like, since i need to broaden my horizons. anyone writing raps about sweaters and girls who read books?
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    Not An Addict

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    J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
    « Reply #140 on: 31 Jul 2006, 08:58 »

    I love it when people point to "The Message" as how old-school rap used to be, like all rap back in the day was socially-conscious and had a point. Rap, and hip-hop, began as party music. Yes yes y'all, throw your hands in the air, block party soundtracks. Then a record executive convinced Grandmaster Flash that a song about inner-city poverty would explode rap to new heights, and lo, it did. Now it's like hip-hop history begins with "The Message" and ignores all the sample-heavy, funk-based, post-disco party records that the genre was built on.

    The point is, there has always been good hip-hop and bad hip-hop, whether mainstream or indie. Ignore the bad, enjoy the good, and stop blacklisting the genre as a whole just because the latest crunk single on the charts drives you nuts.

    Quote from: The Eyeball Kid
    What would you guys recomend? I don't even like the Beastie boys... Kanye is pretty cool, i guess. i'm more of a classic rock/indie pop/twee kinda dude


    Just listen to a hip-hop station for a while and see if anything clicks with you, or check out the genre selections on iTunes. I've discovered most of my favorite hip-hop/R&B songs by accident.
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    bucky_2300

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    J. Jacques Doesn't Care About Black People: A Hip-Hop Thread
    « Reply #141 on: 31 Jul 2006, 09:40 »

    The only hip-hop/rap group I've really been able to get into is Public Enemy. I actually started listening to them about a year after I started listening to punk, and they meshed really well with it. I've actually seen a couple of punk authors call It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back a punk record, and I kind of agree. It's political, it's angry, and it's fun to listen to.

    I did have my doubts about PE after learning about their dalliances with Nation of Islam and S1W, but Chuck D seems to have parted with those groups (as far as I know) so my concience can remain clean on that one.
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